What do you think about Tenant Unions?
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
What do you think about Tenant Unions?
Most Popular Reply
Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 268 posts · 189 votes
4yI'm all for tenants having reasonable protections against bad landlords. However a lot of the tenant unions have a very different interpretation of "reasonable" than most property owners. Because of this I don't think there will be much middle ground in the fight over housing.
In my opinion tenant unions often have misplaced objectives. Most of their efforts don't actually focus on the actual problem of a lack of affordable housing. Rather, many of their objectives are aimed at creating restrictive and punitive laws on current property owners. The sad thing is many of these new laws make it much harder for smaller landlords to do business. They are less inclined to give second chances. Since smaller landlords provide a lot of the affordable housing units, this makes even harder for the tenants the laws seek to protect to find housing.
53 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes4y
@Chris Pasternak some folks just do not earn enough to buy a house.
- Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 731 votes4y
I'm confused, how would a union help them negotiate with larger landlords? (I don't have WSJ access). The only way I see that being accomplished is if the union guarantees a high occupancy rate and backs the tenants rent in case they fail. If it's simply to protest rent rates, they're already at a weakened position once they've signed a lease.
I empathize with tenants having their rents increased 20-30% in the last 2 years. That's a massive pill to swallow. Not to mention the demographic hit the hardest are typically lower income. And it's only going to get tougher.
- Real Estate Broker · Pueblo, CO · Member since 2013 · 366 posts · 303 votes4y
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
@Chris Pasternak some folks just do not earn enough to buy a house.
Plenty of resources to better oneself and earn more money if that's the issue. My point is their decision is to be defensive not offensive. Reactive not proactive. "Poor old me" vs. "I need to change". Looking in the mirror at themselves vs. out the window at everybody else.
- Real Estate Investor · Williamson County, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 961 votes4y
@Andrew B. I thought the tenant associations (unions) were typically in government owned complexes. And it was encouraged. I read somewhere that small investors own 90% of rentals. I assume that means 1-4 units, but around here it is mostly small investors who own smaller, older complexes. Even some of the large new apartments are locally owned, in partnerships.
I think neighbors should always get together and improve neighborhoods, or their complexes. Problem is if their "leaders" encourage them to achieve changes in ways that come back and bite them in the butt.
- Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
@Nathan G.
There are still loopholes in liberal NY, you just need to pick the right people to market to. Residential long term tenants are not the right people. Short term guests and businesses should be your go to markets up here. There are less rules and regulations in those markets.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes4yI also empathize with people that drive for a living and saw gas prices double in one year. Or a family of six that just saw their grocery bill increase 20%. Or home buyers that can't afford a shack when three years ago they could have afforded an above-average home.
Quote from @Kenny Dahill:
I'm confused, how would a union help them negotiate with larger landlords? (I don't have WSJ access). The only way I see that being accomplished is if the union guarantees a high occupancy rate and backs the tenants rent in case they fail. If it's simply to protest rent rates, they're already at a weakened position once they've signed a lease.
I empathize with tenants having their rents increased 20-30% in the last 2 years. That's a massive pill to swallow. Not to mention the demographic hit the hardest are typically lower income. And it's only going to get tougher.
A union would only help them if they are fighting against a slumlord. Fighting over market prices makes no sense because the Landlord doesn't control those any more than the local grocer controls the price of mustard.The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Natick, MA · Member since 2015 · 128 posts · 188 votes4y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
I also empathize with people that drive for a living and saw gas prices double in one year. Or a family of six that just saw their grocery bill increase 20%. Or home buyers that can't afford a shack when three years ago they could have afforded an above-average home.Quote from @Kenny Dahill:
I'm confused, how would a union help them negotiate with larger landlords? (I don't have WSJ access). The only way I see that being accomplished is if the union guarantees a high occupancy rate and backs the tenants rent in case they fail. If it's simply to protest rent rates, they're already at a weakened position once they've signed a lease.
I empathize with tenants having their rents increased 20-30% in the last 2 years. That's a massive pill to swallow. Not to mention the demographic hit the hardest are typically lower income. And it's only going to get tougher.
A union would only help them if they are fighting against a slumlord. Fighting over market prices makes no sense because the Landlord doesn't control those any more than the local grocer controls the price of mustard.Agree with this 100% Why is the focus always on landlords? While people certainly gripe about increased food and energy costs, there are no nationwide cries to "cancel grocers" and most people that opt to stop paying rent are not likely to start stealing their food or gas.
All that said, there are some pretty terrible landlords out there that do shady and illegal things, but they more than likely tend to be the smaller mom-and-pop landlords, which a tenant union is not likely to directly impact.
- Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 72 posts · 65 votes4y
The sad truth is that most of these tenants don't understand why rent increases are occurring at such an alarming rate. Is the same not happening with food and energy? You can easily see that if the basics of life such as shelter, food, and energy continue down this pathway things only get worse. Us LL's are just an easy villain to paint. The Biden Administration has already took aim at "investigating" energy companies to ensure that they aren't "price gouging or making excessive profits". This went no where and faded out of the spotlight. This kind of slight of hand will continue until the masses wake up to what is really eroding their quality of life.
- Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes4y
@Chris Pasternak For folks who live in say san francisco or NYC home ownership is out of reach for many. Also, there is not enough housing if everyone decided to buy.
And lastly how the heck is it a tenants fault if a LL is a slumlord? you have a very elitist attitude - Real Estate Broker · Pueblo, CO · Member since 2013 · 366 posts · 303 votes4y
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
@Chris Pasternak For folks who live in say san francisco or NYC home ownership is out of reach for many. Also, there is not enough housing if everyone decided to buy.
And lastly how the heck is it a tenants fault if a LL is a slumlord? you have a very elitist attitudeMove.
- 4yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
@Chris Pasternak some folks just do not earn enough to buy a house.
ya homeownership is not right its something you have to earn.. build good credit save some money be diligent with your finances etc.
those that cant or are not or are happy to just rent they rent nothing wrong with either .
- Real Estate Broker · Pueblo, CO · Member since 2013 · 366 posts · 303 votes4y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
@Chris Pasternak some folks just do not earn enough to buy a house.
ya homeownership is not right its something you have to earn.. build good credit save some money be diligent with your finances etc.
those that cant or are not or are happy to just rent they rent nothing wrong with either .
Exactly. If you want to rent your whole life, cool. If you want to buy and can't afford where you live, move or increase financial well-being. Library is free of charge.
If you don't agree with what your landlord is charging and you spend time money effort on trying to get them to change rather than just change yourself, well you're wasting valuable time but good luck.
- 4yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
@Chris Pasternak For folks who live in say san francisco or NYC home ownership is out of reach for many. Also, there is not enough housing if everyone decided to buy.
And lastly how the heck is it a tenants fault if a LL is a slumlord? you have a very elitist attitudeMary probably dating myself here but as some who was born in Burlingame and Raised in Cupertino.. The Bay Area has since the late 70s been expensive and out of reach to many.. you simply had to sacrifice if you wanted to buy a home there. Plus the reason folks can buy is they are simply moving up they got incredible appreciation ( and if they were smart enough and did not borrow against it to buy things) they use that cash as down payments.. and a lot of generational transfers IE inheritances etc.. When I bought my first home in the late 70s I could not afford Cupertino prices were 100 to 125k then I had to go to Milpitas ( which stunk literally from the dumps on the bay) and buy a new home for 75k one I could afford.
Also the big difference i see is 3 million dollar ranchers in Palo Alto were I used to live and beat up Toyota Corrolas in the driveway.. Married to your mortgage.. Come to Oregon and cheaper houses and in the driveway brand new SUV another car probably a motor home or boat etc.. Lots of toys compared to many in the Bay Area.
- 4yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
@Chris Pasternak For folks who live in say san francisco or NYC home ownership is out of reach for many. Also, there is not enough housing if everyone decided to buy.
If folks choose to live in, say, the 2 most expensive cities in the US, then that is their problem. They need only to move to a new, more affordable city, get a new job, buy a house, and stop whining about affordability.
- 4yDaniel SmythPro MemberRental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2019 · 471 posts · 342 votes
@Nathan G.
On the face, I would not care much about a tenant union. That is, the union would be a group to better insure the tenant receives what is stipulated in the lease agreement, without that individual tenant being required to have legal staff on hand. If your tenant lost employment suddenly and has no money for legal help, a tenant union might be able to help with some of that cost.
That being said, we need to understand that soon we may need our legal staff ready for more than just being there to file eviction paperwork.
As well, we as owners need to have measures in place to help document that we have done our due diligence! I can see a time where that leak in the back room or that electrical panel that is out of code might be cause for a tenant getting out of back rent.
I cannot fault tenants for joining a union of sorts like this. Legal help from a member association should be much better than some government sponsored or paid defender.
Your expenses will be higher perhaps, bit in the long run the business should go more smoothly in situations where your tenants are likely to try to escape with free rent just because the window was broken or the sink leaks. Proper attention to detail (due diligence), will prove you are or are not upholding the lease, and your property will be better for it.
You can try to fight this, or you can run a business with this in mind.
I am waiting for the class action suits against government officials deciding our contracts are not worth the paper they were written on!
- Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes4y
We will see how this plays out. Usually to the detriment of the tenant...
I will say from what I have seen and heard there are a lot of terrible landlords out there and I do hope there is more accountability.
Personally, I'm not concerned about tenant unions being formed in my area. I have always had a good "working" relationship with my tenants. I have always made the needed repairs to my properties in a timely manner, and my tenants have always paid on time or have let me know if they were not able to pay and when they plan on paying rent.
- Real Estate Agent · Lowell · Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 6 votes4y
I've seen some crazy stories of college kids who move to NYC because its their dream and their rent gets hiked up $1,000 which is crazy, and its hard to justify that on the landlords side. But it seems as though there's probably a lot of people that signed their lease on a unit that may have been stretching their budget too far and they don't like that. Honestly I think the real issue is just that not enough housing is being built, there's a bunch of areas where there's a lot more people that want to live there than there are places for people to live.
- New to Real Estate · NY · Member since 2020 · 196 posts · 29 votes4y
Are tenant unions and rent control area the same thing ?
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes4y
Quote from @Luka Milicevic:
We will see how this plays out. Usually to the detriment of the tenant...
I will say from what I have seen and heard there are a lot of terrible landlords out there and I do hope there is more accountability.
I think people have a tendency to exaggerate this. I believe around 80% of the Landlords, Tenants, and Property Managers are well-intentioned people. It's just that you hear about the bad ones more often, so they appear larger in number than they really are.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes4y
Originally posted by @Bruce Woodruff:
If folks choose to live in, say, the 2 most expensive cities in the US, then that is their problem. They need only to move to a new, more affordable city, get a new job, buy a house, and stop whining about affordability.
Choose is a very interesting word. If you grew up in the area, if your family is there, if your extremely well paying job is there, if the quality of live you want is there...... there are reasons why people live in these areas. And while sure, inertia may keep people in one location, people stay for a reason. People dont want to live in the area where there are many available houses.... probably due to lack of work etc.
FWIW I think its pretty gross that folks are blaming the folks that dont buy. Home ownership is not for everyone and there is not enough housing if everyone wanted to buy. And again.... owning some thing in SF or NYC is not possible for most. (Even I had to move to a less expensive place to comfortably afford to buy) - 4yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
I understand the reasons that people want to live in certain areas. I know/knew plenty of people that choose to live in San Diego for one reason - the weather. These are still all choices and if that is your choice then you must pay for it....or go somewhere else.
I don't think anyone is putting down people that can't or don't want to buy a house. The point is that you don't get to live where you want unless you can afford to....
- Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
I always like reading what you have to say because you're smart and it challenges what I myself think more times then not. I wanted to see if you agree with me on this or ask you to tell me where you disagree.
Landlords are big, fat, soft targets, 90% of what we do is just own stuff. Even if we bend over backwards to treat tenants fairly, take care of our properties etc. I would argue it is nauseatingly easy for the amount of wealth it has created for many of us. This is understandably hard to swallow for tenants that have take a weekend shift etc. to get by for the month. And in my opinion tenant unions are more about punishing that then it is about protecting tenants from slumlords.
FYI I am not knocking myself or anyone else for owning real estate if I could go back in time and buy more.
Thanks and have a great day,
- Real Estate Broker · Pueblo, CO · Member since 2013 · 366 posts · 303 votes4y
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
Originally posted by @Bruce Woodruff:
If folks choose to live in, say, the 2 most expensive cities in the US, then that is their problem. They need only to move to a new, more affordable city, get a new job, buy a house, and stop whining about affordability.
Choose is a very interesting word. If you grew up in the area, if your family is there, if your extremely well paying job is there, if the quality of live you want is there...... there are reasons why people live in these areas. And while sure, inertia may keep people in one location, people stay for a reason. People dont want to live in the area where there are many available houses.... probably due to lack of work etc.
FWIW I think its pretty gross that folks are blaming the folks that dont buy. Home ownership is not for everyone and there is not enough housing if everyone wanted to buy. And again.... owning some thing in SF or NYC is not possible for most. (Even I had to move to a less expensive place to comfortably afford to buy)Want and afford are two different things. Everyone wants to live in a million dollar house. Not everyone can afford it. Whether they're buying or renting it still holds true.
- 4yDan H.Pro MemberInvestor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
Originally posted by @Bruce Woodruff:
If folks choose to live in, say, the 2 most expensive cities in the US, then that is their problem. They need only to move to a new, more affordable city, get a new job, buy a house, and stop whining about affordability.
Choose is a very interesting word. If you grew up in the area, if your family is there, if your extremely well paying job is there, if the quality of live you want is there...... there are reasons why people live in these areas. And while sure, inertia may keep people in one location, people stay for a reason. People dont want to live in the area where there are many available houses.... probably due to lack of work etc.
FWIW I think its pretty gross that folks are blaming the folks that dont buy. Home ownership is not for everyone and there is not enough housing if everyone wanted to buy. And again.... owning some thing in SF or NYC is not possible for most. (Even I had to move to a less expensive place to comfortably afford to buy)I am not anti tenant and do not blame tenants for being tenants. However, when they choose a place to live, they are choosing the pros and cons of that choice. Paying market rent is one of those items associated with their choice.
in my primary market rents went up 21% per apartmentlist.com year over year. If true average rents went up ~$400/month. That is a huge average increase, but I am not surprised. There are many reason I expect large rent increases for at least the next few years. Near the top is how much RE appreciated. If the property goes up 25% YOY, the rent, to keep similar return on equity, needs to increase similarly. Next is my area had the most severe covid eviction moratorium in the nation (evictions were only allowed for health and safety issues which means the tenant could break every term of the lease that was not related to health and safety and not pay their rent and could not be evicted). This newly identified risk results in the need for increased revenue (rent) to offset the risk. There is significant housing shortage; supply and demand dictates both the cost of the RE and the associated rents.So the market is resulting in significant rent increases to tenants and I expect it to continue for at least a few years. The tenants can decide if they want to pay the rent associated with the area or move to a different area.
By the way if my tenants in bulk tried to withhold rent, eviction proceedings would start immediately. If they do not pay, the process will get them out and I will send to collection agency that will ding their credit and they will have an eviction which will make it real hard for them to find decent housing in my market. One of our rent criteria is no evictions, ever. We run credit check and it is on the application; lying on application is grounds for eviction per our lease. If they pay prior to be evicted, they have just become an undesired tenant and will get max rent increase until they leave. In summary, it would not be a smart decision for my tenants.
We take care of our desired tenants and have low turn over. If a tenant does not want to be our tenant and pay the agreed upon rent, they can leave.
- Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes4y
@Eric Bilderback Landlords do get a lot of negative press and I am always yelling at NPR for being so pro tenant without telling the LLs side when reporting on rent issues during covid for instance. And sure, there are great LLs.... but many are not great and that is an issue for all of us as those are the folks that drive more tenant friendly laws. My comment on this thread is just to say - its elitist to think that most people are lazy, etc that rent. Sure, some are... but mostly people rent due to availability of houses where they work, affordability etc.
I guess mostly, people make choices in life and they may not be choices you or I might make and we should be kind and respectful to those folks.Also top be transparent I did not read the article as I dont have a sub to the site. I am speaking mostly in general and responding to what folks are saying.
Usually when tenants get mad is when their rent gets raised a large amount in one fell swoop OR their home is not taken care of or issues are not resolved.,
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.