Fellow landlords, are the following something you would considered "normal wear and tear" or no?
Window blinds - these blinds were brand new before the tenant moved in 16 months ago. I am not sure what happened but there are some dents on two of the pieces, and some of the nylon strings that holds the blind in place are broken.
Cast iron bath tub - I didn't catch this on the move out inspection, as the tub bottom was very dirty. Once I had the bottom scrubbed and cleaned, I can see scratch marks. Was Wolverine taking bath here? These marks were not present.
Closer:
Even closer:
No these are not stain or scuff marks, I have already cleaned it thoroughly.
Sam: are the tub scratches through the enamel and down to the metal? If the base metal is showing through this won't help much, but sometimes the more superficial scratches can be buffed out. Try a magic eraser first with plain water, then Bon Ami or Barkeepers Friend scouring powder with a regular sponge. I've removed metal scratches and rust from tubs and sinks with both when no amount of cleaners, bleach or Lime Away would work. Not great for a new finish but that tub looks old anyway.
IDK why but blinds are an ongoing problem. I end replacing about half of them (and screens) with every turnover. Not wear and tear. Take pictures.
Harder to tell with the bathtub. If you're confident the damage is new then I think the tenant is responsible. You can't damage porcelain over steel just by putting water and people in it. Something harder was in the tub, too. A guess would be something being cleaned. Like gear that was in that troublesome boat.
As @Jon Holdman mentioned, the blinds are damage rather than wear.
As for the tub, was it ever resurfaced previously, or is that the original finished surface?
Scratches might be from kids playing with odd toys (that were not meant for being in the tub). Or maybe they did a load (or few) of dishes in the tub.
I'd charge for the blinds but not the tub. The tub is clearly very old and it's hard to prove damage beyond wear and tear and what was and was not there before they moved in. I would charge for the cleaning though if they left things so dirty you couldn't see scratches.
I'll disagree with Patrick. I would say it is all chargable damage as long as you can back up that all items where in good shape prior. The age of a tub is irrelevant in my mind. A heavy duty tub like that should hold up to normal use for a long long time. Those gouges are not normal wear and tear. Some of the best quality stuff has got more years on it than anyone in these forums...
I think wear and tear gets a lot more credit than it deserves. I just moved out a tenant that smoked in the property. The tenant's son-in-law came to the final walkthrough and I said the big thing would be the damage from smoking. He said it shouldn't be a big deal because after someone living there for 7 years I would have had to paint the walls again anyway. Folks seem to think paint wears... interior paint will last for an extremely long time unless we get junk on it (food, smoke, dirty hand prints). People need to paint because they want a new color or they damaged the wall in some way that requires new paint, paint just doesn't wear away....
I think wear and tear gets a lot more credit than it deserves. I just moved out a tenant that smoked in the property. The tenant's son-in-law came to the final walkthrough and I said the big thing would be the damage from smoking. He said it shouldn't be a big deal because after someone living there for 7 years I would have had to paint the walls again anyway. Folks seem to think paint wears... interior paint will last for an extremely long time unless we get junk on it (food, smoke, dirty hand prints). People need to paint because they want a new color or they damaged the wall in some way that requires new paint, paint just doesn't wear away....
I would charge my tenants for both of those expenses. One of the ways I control costs is by making sure that "any" non wear and tear is charged to the tenants on move out. Personally there are not that many things that are wear and tear unless they have lived there a long time!
check with your state laws here in California we have a tenant to rights handbook and owners to rights handbook check it out at your local library here in California we cannot charge for anything over 3 years unless it's abnormal wear and tear e.g dog or cat or crazy kids from the looks of the pictures what you have is not normal wear and tear it almost looks like a cat did it that looks like it's the kitchen window with a tiled window seal
To determine if it's normal wear and tear, ask yourself this question - would normal use cause that amount of wear and tear to those items over the period of time they were used? To me, neither one is normal wear and tear. Normal use of those items would not have resulted in the damage you see. As such, they should be charged for repair or replacement accordingly.
If the tenant paid timely and left the place in good condition, I would charge nominal for both repairs. In my area a guy refinishes a basic tub for about $300...when you consider cost to change out it's a good deal, especially in older homes....
Normal wear and tear is always a point of contention between landlord and tenants. Scratches in tub , broken blinds , In my opinion are NOT normal wear and tear . I dont shower in work boots , or pull myself up on blinds . Pictures are worth 1000 words , I take lots of before pictures and have the tenants sign each page of pics . If you break it you bought it , is what I tell them and its in the lease . When they move out , I take pictures and have them sign it , I deduct for everything they damage , its a business , plain and simple .
Looks to me like your tenant had a dog. Those are teeth marks on the blinds and the scratches in the tub are likely from the dog being given a bath(s).
The real question here is do you do a documented pre occupancy walk thru?
Otherwise its your word against theirs.
I do a documented move in and move out inspection whereat the tenants signs the move in inspection sheet.
its my opinion both of these are chargeable damages.
A couple of additional thoughts.
Am I absolutely sure these are NEW damages? Yes I am.
These blinds were new. Used to be drapes and I changed out to new blinds before this tenant moved in.
The tub had no scratches. None. I am very observant and I know for sure because before he moved in, I replaced the tub/shower handles and guts and the tub drain strainer in both bathrooms. I put a mat down into the tub and it was hell to remove these drain strainers from the drain shoes when it's all fused and corroded. I put in two new lift and turn. Afterwards I cleaned both tubs.
Now the problem, it isn't possible to document every nick and dent everywhere with pictures, and when I did the move out inspection, I missed these two items because the blinds were drawn up and the tub was dirty (black) masking the scratches, it was not until I cleaned the tub I noticed these scratches. So yes unfortunately this is going to be a problem because it wasn't flagged.
There are a few other things. I definitely need to sit down and rethink my process a bit. On one hand I don't want to create a multi-page check list that goes on and on and on. I still think common sense has a place (but common sense isn't that common these days).
The thing that really ticked me off is the trash.
In the city of Fort Lauderdale we have three trash carts. A green cart for yard waste. A blue cart for recycled items (paper, plastics, aluminum), and a regular trash. On his moved out day not only he left behind his boat and firewood (he has since moved those), he filled all three carts with trash.
I opened up my yard waste yard and I see a fishing rod, regular trash bags, broken glasses, corroded car battery, spic and span and other junk. Recycled cart has broken shovels, various brake fluids, steering fluids, razor blades, Draino, harded laundry detergent, rocks and concrete hunks etc...
I really don't want to call and hire someone to sort trash...so I had to dump out all three carts in my front yard and sort through them, the broken glass was a challenge. All those steering fluid, brake fluid, and other chemical bottles were near empty...I have a sinking feeling, he poured them down my kitchen sink. What a jerk.
The tub scratches are from people who wash things like tricycles, metal shelving and cleats in the shower. It sounds dumb and you'd like to think that people know better. But I'm not sure my adult daughters would know better until they had made the same mistake. Took me years to get them not leave bobby pins to rust in the shower, or leave the curling iron on the floor to melt the carpeting.
Won't the cleaning and trash removal take up the entire deposit? Wear and tear vs. damage on the blinds and tub doesn't really matter if you're getting the max compensation you can get from those tenants. It's not like you were planning to sue for more than deposit, were you?
Sam: are the tub scratches through the enamel and down to the metal? If the base metal is showing through this won't help much, but sometimes the more superficial scratches can be buffed out. Try a magic eraser first with plain water, then Bon Ami or Barkeepers Friend scouring powder with a regular sponge. I've removed metal scratches and rust from tubs and sinks with both when no amount of cleaners, bleach or Lime Away would work. Not great for a new finish but that tub looks old anyway.
Won't the cleaning and trash removal take up the entire deposit? Wear and tear vs. damage on the blinds and tub doesn't really matter if you're getting the max compensation you can get from those tenants. It's not like you were planning to sue for more than deposit, were you?
K. Marie honestly in the past I have had great tenants so most times I don't deduct anything except on obvious items where it's evident on the move out inspection.
In this case I have about $2000 of security deposit.
He didn't put in AC filters so coil cleaning probably $300, the blinds, not sure about the cost of that bath tub repair, some trash disposal so no I don't think it will add up to the entire amount.
The thing is with turning the unit over is unless I hire out a company to perform the work where I get an invoice (such as AC coil cleaning), some of the other more mickey mouse tasks I don't deduct if it's coming off *MY* own time. May be I should...I mean, if you empty out a trash cart to sort the content for 30 minutes how would you quantify that "cost"?
Three approaches for itemizing cleaning and repair.
1. Flat rate.
2. Labor & Materials.
3. Contractor Invoice.
If you have it in your lease agreement, you can charge a non-compliance fee for specific breaches of the lease. We have non-compliance fees for unauthorized occupants, unauthorized pets, smoking on the premises, tampering with smoke/CO alarms, obstructing egress, noise nuisance and misuse of garbage/recycling bins.
It can be hard to charge for your own time when deducting it from the security deposit. You can do it but you must make sure the charges are reasonable for the work preformed. Even if you think your time is worth $20/hr (for example) you can't bill the tenant $20/hr for sorting trash when it could be hired out to an $8/hr laborer. On the other hand If you happen to be a licensed plumber and you perform plumbing repairs to fix damage caused by the tenant you could probably charge $30/hr. None of this really matters unless you end up in court about it, but if you ever do you need to prove to the judge that the charges are all justified and reasonable otherwise you can be liable for up to triple the damages.
We don't typically install blinds, they are relatively cheap. If they were left by a prior tenant and they're not trashed we'll keep them.
From the pix, it is hard to tell, but it could be a re-coating of the original finish. Re-coating is prone to damage from cleaners, and any other harsh cleaners. The preferred cleaner is a soft scrub, nothing harsh. Also if a bath mat is used, the suction cups on the bottom of the bath mat will gold water against the tub surface and if it is re-coated will damage it. The preferred action is to remove the bath mat after every shower/use.
I would have to disagree as far as to what you can charge for "your" time . My lease states that charges for labor are $ xx.xx per hour minimum ( the same rate my company would charge anybody else) . Doesnt matter if its cleaning a toilet or replacing a door .
In a perfect world, I would have documentation of every inch of everything prior to move in, but I don't.
Also in a perfect world, we would do a walk through together at check out, and iron out all the issues on damages, but he didn't show (well some sort of "emergency" prevented him from showing) and took an extra few days for him to remove his boat and firewood, left trash etc...
Now regarding the damages that I am claiming that the ex-tenant caused, he is saying those were existing damages and he knew nothing of them. I don't think a walk through together would have made a difference, he would have claim ignorance in any case.
A few lawn chairs disappeared too. I asked him why and he said one "ripped", and one "had a broken leg", so he put it out with the bulk trash. A propane gas BBQ unit was also discarded by him because "it didn't work". I was never told they were damaged, I knew they weren't damaged prior to his move in. It sounds to me more like he threw them out because it's more likely to be overlooked and in case I questioned it he can just claim ignorance or pre-existing damages.
How do you all address this?
I have a list of damages, itemized, with documentation, and cost of repair. Not all items I can prove (many I can with before and after pictures), some I know were undamaged, and some he threw out due to his "perception" of them being "worthless".
If he challenge those deductions, what would be the process forward?
Did you have your tenant fill out a move-in condition report? If he didn't list the damage on it, then you should be able to deduct the damage from the security deposit. If you have photos backing it up before and after, all the better. If you don't, then you just have to go off the move-in, move-out sheet. In my state I don't believe it's required that the tenant be present during the move-out inspection.
Gerald,
I didn't. That was a mistake.
On the properties I rent myself I had a move in check list which I actually leave for the tenant for a full week before I go back to collect it so they have plenty of time to document anything that may have been overlooked or hidden during the initial walk through. I know by doing it this way I would incur possible damages during their move in, but so far it's been working.
On this particular property, I hired a realtor to handle screening, showing, lease agreements etc...because I was not available on some personal business. So I end up with a lease that's a bit loose (without my standard addendum and clauses), the screening was just a credit check (no criminal eviction etc...) and the no move in check list. I met the tenant after he moved in two weeks later the washer broke.
So no to answer your questions I don't have any move in check list.
On a few items that were damaged, some I knew he caused because either they were newly replaced before he moved in, or I was there during the reno and have documentation of the conditions. On items I am not sure, I am not charging him. He broke some shelves and drawers in the fridge, I am reasonably sure they were OK, but not 100%, so I would eat the cost of that.
The BBQ, lawn chairs etc...really ticked me off. He didn't tell me and tossed them out, and claim they were either already broken or worn to the point of imminent breaking before he moved in, and I knew that were not the case.
Gerald,
I didn't. That was a mistake.
On the properties I rent myself I had a move in check list which I actually leave for the tenant for a full week before I go back to collect it so they have plenty of time to document anything that may have been overlooked or hidden during the initial walk through. I know by doing it this way I would incur possible damages during their move in, but so far it's been working.
On this particular property, I hired a realtor to handle screening, showing, lease agreements etc...because I was not available on some personal business. So I end up with a lease that's a bit loose (without my standard addendum and clauses), the screening was just a credit check (no criminal eviction etc...) and the no move in check list. I met the tenant after he moved in two weeks later the washer broke.
So no to answer your questions I don't have any move in check list.
On a few items that were damaged, some I knew he caused because either they were newly replaced before he moved in, or I was there during the reno and have documentation of the conditions. On items I am not sure, I am not charging him. He broke some shelves and drawers in the fridge, I am reasonably sure they were OK, but not 100%, so I would eat the cost of that.
The BBQ, lawn chairs etc...really ticked me off. He didn't tell me and tossed them out, and claim they were either already broken or worn to the point of imminent breaking before he moved in, and I knew that were not the case.
Understand. I think you're being fair on the issue. I think my move-in condition report actually allows them 3 or 4 weeks. I have to give back the security deposit within 2 weeks, so that doesn't seem fair. I should probably look at adjusting that. Anyway, document everything as best you can, deduct from the security deposit, and put it on them to prove otherwise. Just make sure you're following your FL state and local landlord/tenant laws. Perhaps someone with experience with how the Florida small claims courts might view this could chime in ~ should the tenant decide to pushed the issue. Good luck.
I would charge him for the blinds and trash removal.
Without a move-in inspection report I don't see how you can charge him for the tub. Just hire a tub refinisher they are usually $250-300
Also I don't see how you can charge him for the dirty coil. I never leave it up to my tenants to change filters.
Also I don't see how you can charge him for the dirty coil. I never leave it up to my tenants to change filters.
On the lease there is a list of maintenance items where either the landlord is responsible or the tenant is responsible.
The tenant checked off that item, it stated explicitly they are responsible to change the AC filter every 30 days.
On month #9 I had to do an appraisal for a cash out refinance, and entered the property with an appraiser. I noticed the door to the AC closet was opened, and the old AC was operating without a filter for how long I have no idea. An old crumpled up filter was laying on the floor. I took a picture of that. I texted the tenant to remind him to change the AC filter in accordance with the lease. On month #11 I entered the property again to repair a broken window (one that he broke) and I noticed the same crumpled filter, the same AC operating without a filter. I knew the lease was up soon and for me to throw in a new filter at that time is not going to help. I took a picture of that as well. I had the AC units serviced prior to his move in.