Repairs, where do you draw the line?

Repairs, where do you draw the line?

Greenwood, IN · Member since 2013 · 346 posts · 93 votes

I am sure everybody has encountered the nit picky tenant. They may be a good paying tenant, but they annoy you to death with every little thing wrong in the home.

Obviously I pride myself on getting real repairs, repaired quickly. Leaks, heat, water heaters, ac units, garage door openers etc.

But you get some people, that are like well the paint is getting moldy in the bathroom(even though it was painted just a year and a half ago), or there is no screens on one of the windows or doors, or even to the point that lightbulbs are burnt out, and expects me to hop over and replace. Or the chain on one of the toilets is broken.(you can get a chain at lowes for 2 bucks, and it takes a minute to put on) If you conform to all tenants requests, this won't be a profitable business, or you wont have the money when something real pops up, like a new furnace.

How do you handle it? I know some put a dollar amount in the lease, to state tenant vs landlord responsibility.  But I don't like that, because that could leave small leaks etc, turning into big ones, because the tenant doesn't want to pay to repair it. Where do you draw the line, and how do you relay that to the tenant?

Thank you!

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Contractor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 651 posts · 510 votes
11y

I don't understand how you can expect a tenant to make any repairs. It's your house and therefore maintenance is your responsibility. Mold, no screens, broken toilet are "real" repair needs. If you were staying at a hotel and the toilet wasn't working, would you call the front desk or would you go down to Lowes and buy a "$2.00 chain"? So many landlords just want to collect rent and spend as little as possible on the property. I think that is shabby and unprofessional. If spending $2.00 on a chain and spending 1 minute installing it makes you 'unprofitable', then something else is wrong with your business model. 

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  • Investor · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 515 votes
    11y

    @Gabe G. Most courts wont allow you (or enforce) that maintenance is the tenants responsibility. It is your house, and your liability. You really need to look at your policies, inspect the units every 6 months and make sure smoke alarm batteries, t-stat batteries, and HVAC filters are changed. This will save you in the long run. If you are not making money because of these small things then you need a different market or didn't buy right. 

  • Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 163 posts · 51 votes
    11y

    @Gabe G. This is not legal advice. You could put something into your lease agreement spelling out exactly what you deem as "repairs" and what would be considered "upgrades" as well as who will be responsible for the cost of those upgrades. Also, you can add in language that gives you the final say such as ".... at the Lessors option" or something similar. That way if you need to say "no" you can just say that "per the lease agreement....."

    Personally I would consider anything that didn't come with the unit when the tenant moved in to be an upgrade.

  • Real Estate Agent/Property Management · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 827 votes
    11y

    I'm all for shooting down frivolous repair requests, but the items you mentioned are hardly frivolous.

    There's no screen on a window? If the window opens, it should have a screen and that's your responsibility. By the way it costs $20-$50 at most to install a screen on a window.

    A moldy bathroom wall? I would be really concerned about that. Here in Houston mold was a big problem after Tropical Storm Allison. The mold situation got so bad that many insurance companies quit writing homeowners policies. And even now they have a cap on what they'll pay for mold remediation. If you have a mold problem in the home, you should be very concerned about what's causing it.

    A broken toilet chain sounds frivolous to those of us who have any knowledge of owning residential properties. But remember your tenants are not us. If I were a tenant, I would go to Home Depot and replace the chain myself. But I also understand that many tenants don't have the slightest idea of how to do things like that. 

    Obviously replacing a light bulb and replacing appliances because they don't like the color are examples of frivolous requests, and I would shoot them down immediately.

  • Contractor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2013 · 143 posts · 36 votes
    11y

    In my opinion man, you have to take things on a case by case basis.  Obviously, heat, electric, leaks, structural, etc., is for sure things you need to address immediately.  However, if things start to get nit picky with one particular tenant, you should draw the line at some point, but you have to make that determination. 

    If one of my long term tenants (that pay consistently) are asking for more than I would normally do, Im probably going to do it.  Just like @Troy S said, customer service.  At the same time I believe if you give 9 out of 10 tenants an inch, theyre going to take a mile.  Most renters have entitlement issues and feel like things are supposed to be handed to them on a platter (esp if they are somewhat savvy on tenant/landlord rights/laws). 

    On the same hand, I am not their servant, and I am not have my life run by anal tenants who need their bathroom walls wiped down after a shower (does your exhaust fan work properly, or is there a window in bathroom?). 

    Be cautious in multi unit situations as well, I have a 4-plex, and I know they all talk about me (not always positive), and I have 14 mobile homes in one community where I know that's all they do is talk (because most just sit around all day and hang out).  You do not want to be taken advantage of, you know. 

    At times, you just have to be stern about your limits, but still be a good landlord.  Its a fine line to dance at times.

  • Investor · Utica, NY · Member since 2014 · 16 posts · 8 votes
    11y

    @Gabe G.  Gabe, I am a fairly new landlord, but I can certainly relate to having these types of dilemmas. I think that while it is incumbent upon the landlord to be clear right up front with things like tenant responsibilities, repairs that have merit, etc, etc, we all know things could go very differently once the tenant has taken occupancy. With that said, outside of a highly unreasonable and needy tenant that you simply may have to manage and wait out until the lease is up, I feel that your approach should be a measured one, in that some tenants need more attention and training than others. In other words, the goal is to get all of your tenants abiding by a policy or protocol that best suits your needs as a landlord, all the while making sure that (1) Your tenants see that you care about keeping them happy and content living in your property and (2) You, at the very least, can limit the possibility of something serious happening due to tenant neglect. So initially, this could mean that you may have to do some things that YOU might find to be completely ridiculous, but over time, effective communication and prompt property management should ultimately help shape the behavior of your tenants to what works for you. 

  • Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    We recently made what could be considered repairs *and* upgrades for a tenant that is going on her 3rd year with us. She has always paid the rent on time, been a pleasure to deal with. She said that the last winter was so brutal (here in the northeast) that her heating bills were over $500 a month. She asked if we could replace the thin, old carpeting on the first floor, which had no padding. It was there when we bought the house.

    We asked if she would like laminate hardwood floors instead, which would be installed with a vapor barrier. She was very happy to have that instead of carpet, even though it was more expensive for us. We insulated the basement and bought her a room heater as well. We also replaced the shower surround that was old and cracked. We could have done these things on the cheap, or not done them at all, but we want the tenant to be happy and stay with us as long as we own the house.

    As others have said, good customer relations are key. And good tenants are hard to find.

  • Greenwood, IN · Member since 2013 · 346 posts · 93 votes
    11y

    Thank you for the more recent responses. They were more on key on what I was seeking.

    And yes on the bathroom, there is an exhaust fan and window.

    I have debated back and forth on putting a dollar limit on it for tenant vs. landlord responsibility. While yes I understand I legally own the house,  If a tenant is making it their home for several years, I expect them to take care of it as such. And some of that includes doing basic things that may come up, and have an understanding that just because you rent a house, you arent entitled to a "perfect" house with no flaws. You are entitled to a safe and functional home.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    There are things that if a tenant breaks them, they are responsible.  If the tenant does not pay, they can be asked to leave.  Personally, I will want to repair any safety issues. But when someone asks if they can paint, when the unit was freshly painted before they moved in, I will be more than happy to say no.

  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    Some tenants are higher maintenance than others, but the quiet ones, who never have an issue, often cost you more in the end - they are the ones who will ignore the leak under the sink until the bottom falls out of the cabinet and the subfloor is rotten.

    We have a new tenant who is quite particular about things and has an ever expanding "todo" list - many of them were initially legitimate as we made the error of letting the tenant move in a couple of days early when we really should have held onto that time to give the unit one last going over.

    The bone of contention is the dishwasher: the tenant insists it doesn't work.  I've run in on three occasions and it worked fine.  I even went so far as to show up with a box of dirty dishes and wash them while painting touchups from the movers.    At this point, I think the tenant is simply trying to wear me down because they want a new dishwasher.

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Gabe,

    My rentals are exclusively SFRs.

    I think the problem with this thread, and the reason you are getting the answers that you are, is the examples you used in you initial post.  Mold in the bathroom is a ventilation issue, not a tenant issue.  Toilet needs to flush when they push the lever, simple repair or not.  Windows should absolutely have screens, and I would call you if I were renting and want you to get that taken care of.

    All of that sort of thing can be taken care of while making money.  Your concern that taking care of these sorts of small issues will leave you without the money for taking care of larger issues?  Not a problem.  Really, it isn't.  It is more a question of time and attention from the landlord, which it seems it what you really want to get out from under.  If that is so, you really need to just hire a property management company and be done with it.

    You should also budget separately for capital expenses like a new roof, and ongoing maintenance items like the ones you list.

    To answer your initial question, regarding where I draw the line, I think you have been given some good advice.  Bill's standard of, "If you have to crack something open, it's on the landlord" is a good one.  So is the distinction between upgrades and repairs that several others have mentioned.  My own approach is very similar to Kyle's.

    But seriously, you need to take care of small issues, or they will become big ones.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    It is different for people what they won't based on their model of service and type of unit. I was taken aback by the first light bulb change request. I gave some thought to it and got the ladder and changed the bulb. Now if my 20 year old students call for a bulb change in their 8ft bedroom ceiling I would tell them to change it themselves but a 10 foot ceiling and a 60 something (or even younger and a ladder) I will do it. Screens and storms are the law in our states but not others. I was surprised at that but it isn't the only regional difference I have found. 

    I draw the line at if the house was that way when you moved in, it is not going to change. If it is 100 years old, I can't make the 100 year old tile shiny and new. I won't replace good stuff with new items just because you want new while the older items works fine and that is part of what you rented in the first place. If there was not a built in tub stopper when you rented it isn't going to be added. Those requests I ignore. I may consider them on an upgrade timepoint if they really are less then serviceable but not as a matter of tenant preference. I also don't change batteries in your smoke detector or thermostat when they go but will do a maintenance change on an inspection. That being said we would do a flapper or toilet chain. Anything broken we will do if it is our equipment. How  quickly really depends on the issue.  However, I do have one pet peeve and if it beeps and I have checked everything, check your own stuff for an issue. I don't manage Verizon fios, the electric or cable company.

    You may have some tenants for which nothing is ever good enough, I am with you on the they complain enough raise the rent and hope they go. I haven't met a silent tenant yet,  even the quieter ones will call with issues.

  • Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Gabe G.:

    Ok Kyle. The next time I have a capable 30 yr old adult tenant call and ask for me to change lightbulbs or put in screendoor where there wasnt one, or paint the entire house, because it's white in color, because they dont like it, or paint the bathroom after it was just painted 1.5 yrs ago, because they don't use an exhaust fan.

    I'll point them towards you:)

     Gabe if there's mold in the bathroom that's on the landlord.  Yes, tenants don't always use the exhaust fan.  Want an easy solution?  Put all the lights and the fan on a single switch, that way if they're in the bathroom the fan is on.   

    If the toilet is broken that's on the landlord.  You can't expect a tenant to run to Home Depot to buy toilet parts because something wore out.  There's a reason why they rent instead of own.  Just because the tenant is capable of making repairs doesn't mean it's their responsibility or that they should even be doing it.  

    If they want upgrades such as a change in paint color or a new screen door where wasn't one then you have no obligation to do those.  I will often offer a small upgrade, like the screen door, upon lease renewal for a good tenant to keep them happy and keep the property from going vacant.  

    If you're getting so worked up about the things the tenants aren't fixing for you then maybe you're in the wrong business?

  • Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Gabe G.:

    So you honestly think, because one door or window in a house, doesn't have a screen on it when they move in, that makes me a bad landlord? I own a home and I have two windows with no screen, and have for 8 years, i am surprised the house hasn't collapsed on itself yet:).

    Here in my city you'd be in violation of city code and could be fined $100/day after your warning period for a missing screen on a window.  Seriously.   I have to have most of my rental units inspected by the city (no cost) and they go through every window to make sure they open, stay open on their own, and have a screen. They verify smoke detectors, GFCI's, hot water, heat and overall condition of the property.  If I'm missing a screen I can't rent the unit until I replace it and have it reinspected.  Life isn't always easy.  

  • Greenwood, IN · Member since 2013 · 346 posts · 93 votes
    11y

    Yeah Patrick that is ridiculous.

    Whether one window has a screen on it or not, does not effect the safety or functionality of a home.

    Thank you for the responses.

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Gabe G.:

    Yeah Patrick that is ridiculous.

    Whether one window has a screen on it or not, does not effect the safety or functionality of a home.

    Thank you for the responses.

     Does not affect the safety.  Does absolutely affect the functionality.  Screens are a legal requirement many places and a reasonable expectation everywhere.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Carrollton, TX · Member since 2013 · 165 posts · 71 votes
    11y

    Good stuff here guys.  Learning a lot.  I plan of being a landlord.  After reading these posts, it seems your best bet is to have everything spelled out in the lease and make sure they understand everything and make sure you walk through the property, explaining things to your tenants, asking them what kind of skill they have i.e. changing a chain on a toilet, shutting off water, changing light bulbs etc.  Set expectations upfront and everything in writing so there is never any he said/she said. Does this sound about right? 

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