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User Stats

30
Posts
7
Votes
Elliot Cole
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Las Vegas, NV
7
Votes |
30
Posts

Best way to reduce duplex boiler heating expense?

Elliot Cole
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Las Vegas, NV
Posted

I own a duplex where I pay heat for the property. As an added quirk, the downstairs unit contains the thermostat for both units. The boiler is the only thing in the property using gas and last year my bill was over $2600. I've priced out upgrading to a high efficiency model and the quotes vary from $5,000-$11,000. An alternative proposed by a recent HVAC company was $1100 to flush the system, bleed the radiators, and leave the existing boiler in place, but install an ecobee wifi thermostat where I can set the max allowable temperature remotely. Which options make the most sense and what sort of pricing is reasonable?

User Stats

2,772
Posts
1,885
Votes
Charles Carillo
  • Rental Property Investor
  • North Palm Beach, FL
1,885
Votes |
2,772
Posts
Charles Carillo
  • Rental Property Investor
  • North Palm Beach, FL
Replied

@Elliot Cole

If you are going to replace the boiler, I would add another one for the other unit. The gas company will add another meter and your tenants can pay for heat themselves. Yes, this is expensive, but it will add to the value of your property. The next issue is telling your tenants. Maybe don't raise their rent for 1-2 years if they stay once the heat is separated and paid by themselves. Do you know any plumbers? I would speak to them first and see what they would say for running lines etc. before making an decisions. 

User Stats

30
Posts
7
Votes
Elliot Cole
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Las Vegas, NV
7
Votes |
30
Posts
Elliot Cole
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Las Vegas, NV
Replied

@Charles Carillo

I like the suggestion, but your point about the expense is my biggest concern. Adding a second boiler and splitting the gas would be great, but it’s upwards of $20K+. I’m not sure the payback period justifies it. 

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User Stats

319
Posts
330
Votes
Russ B.
  • Investor
  • Cleveland, OH
330
Votes |
319
Posts
Russ B.
  • Investor
  • Cleveland, OH
Replied

Splitting a steam system into two boilers sounds expensive.. Lots of giant metal pipes to move around. It may also be possible to convert to two hot water systems (depends on the age and design of your system), but either option is gonna be harder with people living there. 

How do your windows and doors look? If they're old wooden ones, replacing them could offer way more bang for your buck than a new boiler. Insulation is another easy thing to do.

User Stats

1,654
Posts
2,086
Votes
Peter Tverdov
Property Manager
  • Real Estate Broker
  • New Brunswick, NJ
2,086
Votes |
1,654
Posts
Peter Tverdov
Property Manager
  • Real Estate Broker
  • New Brunswick, NJ
Replied

My first thought would be to check the windows and doors. You can have the best system but if air is escaping through old windows and doors...all for naught!

User Stats

2,614
Posts
1,381
Votes
Tom S.
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Burlington, VT
1,381
Votes |
2,614
Posts
Tom S.
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Burlington, VT
Replied

@Elliot Cole  Or just raise the rent slightly and note that heat is included?  For $2600 for the year, that's only $100 per month for each unit to cover almost all of it.  

I have a 5 unit and advertise it that way, that heat is included with rent.  I've had no problems finding tenants to pay slightly higher rent and my expense is covered.

User Stats

87
Posts
100
Votes
Chris R.
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Southern NH
100
Votes |
87
Posts
Chris R.
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Southern NH
Replied

Hey Elliot...we have the exact same setup in our triplex and have taken the same route with getting quotes on new heat options that were plain astronomical in price. We did 2 things to solve the issue.  First I installed a Nest thermostat that I control and it tops out at 68°. Second, we did what Tom did and added $125/mo for heat. I sell it as stabilized heat cost where their monthly bill never spikes during the colder months. It’s worked out well so far and tenants seem happy with the arrangement. The key is to sell it up front at the showing and people’s expectations are well managed before they sign the lease. 

User Stats

1,002
Posts
1,043
Votes
Owen Dashner
Pro Member
  • Lender
  • Omaha, NE
1,043
Votes |
1,002
Posts
Owen Dashner
Pro Member
  • Lender
  • Omaha, NE
Replied

Why not just ditch the boiler and upgrade your panel and have an electric furnace installed?  Boom, no more paying for utilities.  I just did this at a 4 plex I own.  Even adding ductwork and framing/drywall/paint is going to be less than what you would pay to add another boiler.

Either that, or start charging utility billbacks to the tenants to offset the costs.

User Stats

30
Posts
7
Votes
Elliot Cole
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Las Vegas, NV
7
Votes |
30
Posts
Elliot Cole
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Las Vegas, NV
Replied
Originally posted by @Chris R.:

Hey Elliot...we have the exact same setup in our triplex and have taken the same route with getting quotes on new heat options that were plain astronomical in price. We did 2 things to solve the issue.  First I installed a Nest thermostat that I control and it tops out at 68°. Second, we did what Tom did and added $125/mo for heat. I sell it as stabilized heat cost where their monthly bill never spikes during the colder months. It’s worked out well so far and tenants seem happy with the arrangement. The key is to sell it up front at the showing and people’s expectations are well managed before they sign the lease. 

Thanks, Chris. This feels like to most cost effective approach. Do each of your tenants have their own thermostat or is there one thermostat for the whole property?

User Stats

30
Posts
7
Votes
Elliot Cole
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Las Vegas, NV
7
Votes |
30
Posts
Elliot Cole
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Las Vegas, NV
Replied
Originally posted by @Owen Dashner:

Why not just ditch the boiler and upgrade your panel and have an electric furnace installed?  Boom, no more paying for utilities.  I just did this at a 4 plex I own.  Even adding ductwork and framing/drywall/paint is going to be less than what you would pay to add another boiler.

Either that, or start charging utility billbacks to the tenants to offset the costs.

That would be ideal, especially given I could add AC and market the property at a higher rate, but that's something I'd hold off on until I renovate one or both of the units. 

User Stats

87
Posts
100
Votes
Chris R.
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Southern NH
100
Votes |
87
Posts
Chris R.
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Southern NH
Replied

We have one thermostat...not ideal but the Nest seems to do the trick for all units. The key is the top temperature limit...otherwise you’ll show up in the winter and tenants are in t-shirts and shorts. True $tory!

User Stats

30
Posts
7
Votes
Elliot Cole
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Las Vegas, NV
7
Votes |
30
Posts
Elliot Cole
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Las Vegas, NV
Replied

@Chris R.

Same here, and the thermostat is with a tenant who isn’t too energy efficient. Thanks for the tip!

User Stats

87
Posts
100
Votes
Chris R.
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Southern NH
100
Votes |
87
Posts
Chris R.
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Southern NH
Replied

@Elliot Cole, yeah it’s really the only way to go. Give me a shout if you want to chat more. It’s been a circus up till now!

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