Tenant Request for Compensation

Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Got a call from a tenant telling me that a blade on her ceiling fan flew off and almost hit her. I apologized but went silent when she said she wanted to be compensated for the mishap. I told her we would talk about it later.

I am willing to replace the fan with a new one but I don't feel good about paying a penalty for injuries that didn't happen. What should I do? Pay a little to make the issue go away or find a lease loophole.

I really don't want tenant to stay - but I want to be fair.

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Kyle J.

Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes

13y

Definitely don't pay her anything. If you do, she might see it as a potential way to get money from you in the future.

Just tell her since the fan blade almost hit her that you decided to almost pay her.

Seriously though, she's probably just seeing what she can get out of you. I think a new fan is a fair way to resolve the issue and the most I would do for her if she were my tenant.

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Fran Flanagan
Investor · North Wales, PA · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 44 votes
13y
Jon Holdman, do you think that the state in question matters at all for this? Or is it simply that it's always easier to evict when a lease is finished in time duration as opposed to any other rationale?

Apologies to the OP for the partial hijack here.
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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
13y
In Al Williamson's case he's being hounded by this tenant. Think any judge would grant an eviction over that? Doubtful. That's the sort of stuff you sign up for when you're a landlord. And, if she's paying the rent, maybe he just puts up with it. But if it becomes troublesome, and it apparently has because of the letter he sent offering her an out, then with a month to month lease he has an option of terminating the lease. If he terminates the lease and then she refuses to leave, he can evict on the grounds of overstaying the lease. Now, if the situation ends up in court, there may still be a problem. The tenant could claim they were living in a hazardous environment and were being kicked out because they complained about the danger. A judge could sympathize. But "the lease was terminated and she refused to leave" is a much stronger case than "she's driving me crazy."

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Tracy Hightower
Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2012 · 5 posts · 0 votes
13y
I'm thinking she should send you a letter in writing stating the ceiling fan is broken and describe the situation. Assuming you installed a working fan and she signed a move-in checklist, then you repair the fan within 7 days. All in writing.

Since nothing happened; only a near miss, offer to have someone review the home for other safety items....plus if that person takes pictures of their inspection, you will have a better idea of what's going on and proof of the whole situation for the future or move out.
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Kevin Yeats
Lender · Fort Pierce, FL · Member since 2009 · 825 posts · 486 votes
13y
You know, I think she almost hit me with her car when she was returning home one night.

Sheesh
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Dawn AnastasiPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
13y
Jon Holdman I only have one MTM lease and my insurance company wants me to have leases at least 6 months in length. Do you ever get any kick back from the insurance company?
Podcast Guest on Show #29
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Jon K.
Member since 2011 · 798 posts · 216 votes
13y
Originally posted by Tracy Price:
offer to have someone review the home for other safety items....

I wouldn't do this. It seems like this psycho tenant would only try to make another claim that the OP is interested in her or her kid, and use this "safety review" as a guarantee that nothing will happen in the house.
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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
13y
I think we discussed this in another thread, Dawn A. Nope, never had any pushback from an insurance company.
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Mike Franco
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 555 posts · 261 votes
13y
Originally posted by Al Williamson:
Thank God Google Voice records and transcribes.
Looks like I'm headed for an eviction, but at least I'll have plenty of documentation. Guess I can't win them all.

I'm not sure where the law stands on recorded conversations.

In california, recorded conversations without the consent of all parties are illegal or not admissable as evidence. But since google records and transcribes indiscriminately, who knows what the court may allow. One could argue it's equivalent to an email.
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Al Williamson
OP
Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
Mike Franco we're going to let her leave a voice message. She will know she is being recorded.

NEWS FLASH - She left me another long text message today. It's filled with accusations and cursing. This is out of control and well into the realm of harassment. I never though I would be the target of harassment - it's not fun at all.

I'm filing a civil restraining order this evening and will have the Sheriff serve her.

This is turning into a soap opera. Stay tuned.
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Jon K.
Member since 2011 · 798 posts · 216 votes
13y
Wow. This whole thing is crazy.

I have a feeling this whole thing is going to be messy. Keep all those text messages and voicemails and save a copy elsewhere. I hope her lease isn't that much longer and that she'll willingly move and leave you alone.

How does someone have a restraining order against a tenant? They can only mail payments to you and you hire someone else to do repairs? Wow. Seriously, wow. How bizarre. When I was a tenant, I would have never even considered cursing at my landlord, let alone harassing texts. She's absurd.

What's she cursing about in the texts? Just that you won't giver her compensation for a fan?

Did you give her the letter allowing her out of her lease early, and how did she respond to that?
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Mehran K.
Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 603 votes
13y
What a pain! You're handling it well though Al Williamson. I hope it works out in your favor.
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Al Williamson
OP
Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
I had my wife call and defuse the situation for the time being. We're going together to make repairs on Saturday. I'm keeping documentation but holding off on restraining order.

This is a very manipulative tenant who pays her rent, has obvious mental health issues and knows tenant law. The perfect storm.
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George P.
Real Estate Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 268 votes
13y
Have a lawyer draft a letter saying to take a walk.
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Jean BolgerPro Member
Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
I'm so sorry you're having to go through this! I just got rid of a tenant who had ABVD (advanced blaming/victimization disorder.... if it's not in the DSM it should be). Even when you know how out of line their accusations are it still feels terrible to be on the receiving end.
When you have a disagreement with a sane person it can be worked out. When they're nuts, you can't hope for that kind of resolution; all you can do is protect yourself the best you can and try to deflect their energy to somewhere harmless.
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Deborah Saddler
Real Estate Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2013 · 173 posts · 18 votes
13y
Al, I agree with Charles McNelly & Steve Babiak, and I really like Bill W. idea of recording your next conversation, so you can document. You may be able to use it, if you have to. And I broke out laughing at Rob K, response. I love it, because that's exactly what it boils down to. Frivolous !!!!
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Ben Hughes
Investor · Cypress, TX · Member since 2013 · 403 posts · 59 votes
13y
I wouldn't step foot near that place right now. I would hire someone else out to do the work.
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Al Williamson
OP
Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
Ben Hughes I don't flinch. I like to lean in and lead.

We gave tenant notice when my wife and I will go in and replace her fan along with a few other very minor repairs. We're setting the schedule using our 24 hour entry clause.

We're going to attempt to direct her to only talk to us about lease related issues. There is nothing else we need to discuss.

If those tactics don't bring her back in line, we will reach for our other, heavier handed options. I have no issue using the legal system, but I'm hopeful to us frame control to mitigate the situation.

Plus, this is a great learning opportunity for me. I honestly haven't had someone get through my screening and cause this many issues. I'm mostly skilled at dealing with issue beyond my property line.

Wish me luck.
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Dawn AnastasiPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Al Williamson:
We gave tenant notice when my wife and I will go in and replace her fan along with a few other very minor repairs.

Are you replacing the fan with a light fixture or another fan?
Podcast Guest on Show #29
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Al Williamson
OP
Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
Dawn A. thanks for making me slow down to think through my options. I looked at the pros and cons of re-installing a ceiling fan and concluded:

1. I wouldn't have thought twice about installing a new fan IF tenant had not gone crazy. I would have wanted to restore her unit to its original condition.

2. I know she uses/enjoys the fan.

3. All my units have ceiling fans and I've never had a problem in nearly 20 years of landlording.

4. I believe the fan failed due to wear and tear.

Therefore:

Replacing the fan with a new one is fits my business standards and is the right thing for me to do. If that decision bites me in the butt then I'll live with it.
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Jim Bentley
Investor · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2013 · 54 posts · 11 votes
13y
@Al: You might want to replace it with one of these:

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=449505-94325-LP8255LWH&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=4754426&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

It has a protective cage, so if another blade randomly flies off, it won't hit anyone!
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Adam Johnson
Rental Property Investor · Holley, NY · Member since 2011 · 507 posts · 347 votes
13y
Originally posted by Jon Holdman:
Month to month leases.
Month to month leases.

Month to month leases.

Amen! I am not a fan of 1 year leases. Regarding the ceiling fan, you might have something in your lease regarding the tenants failure to report a maintenance issue (the blade doesn't typically fly off, it was either lose and shaking for a while or it was hit by something and damaged).

If I were in your shoes, and I probably will be someday with another crazy tenant, I would replace the fan right away, with a flush-mount light. If the tenant wants a new fan, simply say that this was the safest solution you could come up with due to her fear for safety.

I carry a digital camera with me in my truck, and so do all of my service people. It is amazing the things you find without looking and it goes a long way in court to document that you took definitive and immediate action to remove the "hazard".

Is she current on the rent? In NY, my experience has been that problem tenants are rarely current on the rent. That is much easier to take them to court over. I had a judge ask me once in eviction court (who was familiar with the tenant I was evicting for other reasons) why I chose to evict this tenant only on the grounds that he was $ 50 behind on the rent. I answered the judge honestly when I said that it was the easiest thing to prove and if he was evicted for non-payment, he was just gone as he would be if I could prove all of the other "activities" that were taking place in and around my property. Either way, I had a problem solved, I just chose the path of least resistance.
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Al Williamson
OP
Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
Jim Bentley funny! clever!

Adam Johnson she in current on rent - she's no dummy in that sense. I will take digital pictures of the install. My record audio as well.

My day job is construction management. We audio record all meetings and document construction activities. I'm good at archiving information for future court cases. That's my normal mindset.

Yep, I'm going for a timely resolution to the safety issue.

After this hurdle, if she acts up again, I'll pull all the trap doors in my lease agreement to flush her out.
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Kyle J.
Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Al Williamson:
Adam Johnson she in current on rent - she's no dummy in that sense. I will take digital pictures of the install. My record audio as well.
My day job is construction management. We audio record all meetings and document construction activities. I'm good at archiving information for future court cases. That's my normal mindset.

If you do record her, just make sure you let her know that you'll be recording since it's illegal to do it secretly. Don't want to see you get in trouble down the road.

I just watched a story on the news last night about the District Attorney's office in a nearby city opening up an investigation into the city's mayor for allegedly secretly recording a meeting he had with the city manager. It doesn't sound good.
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Mike Franco
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 555 posts · 261 votes
13y
yeah, CA is one of the messed up states where you can't even protect yourself with recorded conversation.

I wonder how conversations with death threats are handled
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Jon K.
Member since 2011 · 798 posts · 216 votes
13y
Originally posted by Ben Hughes:
I wouldn't step foot near that place right now. I would hire someone else out to do the work.

Me neither.

She's made some serious allegations about you and her minor child, and I wonder if she's trying to entrap you into it.

I wouldn't set foot inside. I would hire it out, and use a female contractor if possible. I wouldn't give her a fan and would install a light.

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