Short Term Rentals - Risks of Regulation

Short Term Rentals - Risks of Regulation

Investor · Verona, WI · Member since 2008 · 134 posts · 79 votes

I currently own and operate a short term rental in northern Wisconsin (as well as manage several traditional rentals). I'm curious what others are seeing across the country in terms of city and state regulation of short term rentals? 

My short term rental has far out performed any of my traditional rentals by a long shot (but it's more work to manage). I've considered buying more, but I'm very hesitant because local governments seem very anti vacation rental property. For awhile some counties in Wisconsin had actually outlawed short term rentals on residential properties. In 2017 Wisconsin’s Right to Rent law prevented municipalities from banning short term rentals entirely. However, municipalities are allowed to have some significant restrictions. One of these possible restrictions is requiring a minimum of a 7-night stay, in other words you couldn’t rent your home out for the weekend. Another possible restriction is renting for a maximum of 180 consecutive nights in a year. For example, if you started your short-term rentals in April, you’d need to stop in September. Many of the municipalities that I have checked with (Madison included) follow these two restrictions. These restrictions can turn a great property into a flop, because if you wipe out half the year and eliminate 2-6 night rentals you lose a large portion of your rentals.

Now I see the news in Colorado that the Aspen City Council ordered a stop to new development and short term rental licensing. I've seriously considered buying a rental in places like Aspen, Gatlinburg, Florida, etc. However, it's really scary that the local government could just change their rules and turn your property from a great investment to a terrible one. Even scarier that it's happening in areas where tourism is what drives their economy. 

What are your thoughts, is heavier restriction on vacation rentals a growing trend? What are you seeing in your area? Am I being too cautious? 

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y

Yeah, it completely depends on the state and local area. Arizona does not allow any local municipalities to ban STRs, they can only regulate them. Other states have similar views. So STRs are still a fantastic investment, but just do a lot of research and look into your crystal ball.

Also, some areas that might eventually limit STRs, to some extent, are generally saying that existing STRs will be grandfathered in.....so if you find an 'iffy' area, just get in now....

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Luke CarlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    If you’re doing it in an area with a bunch of primary homes you might need to worry. If all of your neighbors are also on Vrbo you’ve got no problems. 

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    Yeah, it completely depends on the state and local area. Arizona does not allow any local municipalities to ban STRs, they can only regulate them. Other states have similar views. So STRs are still a fantastic investment, but just do a lot of research and look into your crystal ball.

    Also, some areas that might eventually limit STRs, to some extent, are generally saying that existing STRs will be grandfathered in.....so if you find an 'iffy' area, just get in now....

  • Investor · Verona, WI · Member since 2008 · 134 posts · 79 votes
    4y

    @Bruce Woodruff Yes, Wisconsin is the same now. They do not allow local municipalities to ban, but they can regulate, and the regulations are fairly restrictive. 

    @Luke Carl I'm not so sure being surrounded by vacation rentals everywhere is the answer. You are surrounded by your competition which drives prices down. For example I stayed in a very nice place in Orlando for $200/night. In an area with fewer rentals it could have easily been 400/night. Additional Orlando is an absolute mess when it comes to this. Waiting in line at a security gate for an hour and a half on a Friday evening to get into a neighborhood is no way to start a vacation. Going to the Walmart to find they are out of toilet paper and garbage backs sucks, and going out to eat with 2.5 hour waits with hungry kids is not pleasant. Gatlinburg on the other hand has handled the heavy vacation rental market better. ...but I'm still not sold on the saturated markets. I'm open to hearing more though. 

  • Investor · FL · Member since 2020 · 41 posts · 19 votes
    4y

    Solution: Research the markets that are STR friendly and invest there.

  • Investor · Verona, WI · Member since 2008 · 134 posts · 79 votes
    4y

    Until December 8th Aspen was STR friendly, and then suddenly they shut down permitting. I'm not trying to argue, just pointing out that things can change quickly and that's my concern.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Keith Schulz:

    @Bruce Woodruff Yes, Wisconsin is the same now. They do not allow local municipalities to ban, but they can regulate, and the regulations are fairly restrictive. 

    @Luke Carl I'm not so sure being surrounded by vacation rentals everywhere is the answer. You are surrounded by your competition which drives prices down. 

    If they are heavily regulating in Wisconsin, then move or invest where it is more friendly to STRs. Even here where the cities are more liberal (hence more regulatory) they are fairly reasonable.

    The 'cluster effect' is a well known and long practiced business strategy. Just because one area doesn't excel in it doesn't mean it doesn't work....it seems you just need to find an area that will work for you.... :-)

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Keith Schulz:

    Until December 8th Aspen was STR friendly, and then suddenly they shut down permitting. I'm not trying to argue, just pointing out that things can change quickly and that's my concern.

    Absolutely NOT trying to get political here , but since it affects your business you need to note that left leaning areas (like Aspen) are generally going to end up being more restrictive of your STR. This is not just an opinion, you (and should) search your favorite search engine to verify which areas will be more favorable to your goals...

  • Justin BeasleyPro Member
    Pigeon Forge, TN · Member since 2020 · 102 posts · 69 votes
    4y

    Gatlinburg is about as safe as it gets. There will certainly be future zoning changes in the smokies(some have already take place) but any future changes will grandfather in current rentals. Also, the Gburg/PF economy is built around short term rentals so even future regulations are not going to be designed to prohibit that industry.

    Future regulations in the smokies are likely to address things to help protect the land & environment. So purchase confidently and go make some money! 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Keith Schulz:

    I currently own and operate a short term rental in northern Wisconsin (as well as manage several traditional rentals). I'm curious what others are seeing across the country in terms of city and state regulation of short term rentals? 

    My short term rental has far out performed any of my traditional rentals by a long shot (but it's more work to manage). I've considered buying more, but I'm very hesitant because local governments seem very anti vacation rental property. For awhile some counties in Wisconsin had actually outlawed short term rentals on residential properties. In 2017 Wisconsin’s Right to Rent law prevented municipalities from banning short term rentals entirely. However, municipalities are allowed to have some significant restrictions. One of these possible restrictions is requiring a minimum of a 7-night stay, in other words you couldn’t rent your home out for the weekend. Another possible restriction is renting for a maximum of 180 consecutive nights in a year. For example, if you started your short-term rentals in April, you’d need to stop in September. Many of the municipalities that I have checked with (Madison included) follow these two restrictions. These restrictions can turn a great property into a flop, because if you wipe out half the year and eliminate 2-6 night rentals you lose a large portion of your rentals.

    Now I see the news in Colorado that the Aspen City Council ordered a stop to new development and short term rental licensing. I've seriously considered buying a rental in places like Aspen, Gatlinburg, Florida, etc. However, it's really scary that the local government could just change their rules and turn your property from a great investment to a terrible one. Even scarier that it's happening in areas where tourism is what drives their economy. 

    What are your thoughts, is heavier restriction on vacation rentals a growing trend? What are you seeing in your area? Am I being too cautious? 

    Well Aspen is very expensive.  I have clients that have bought in higher priced markets but they buy fully functioning and licensed properties I think that mitigates the risk a ton.. it seems like the areas that have no license requirements are the ones you have to worry about.

    although depending  on how much income you would get but you could have a 7 day minimum that only costs 3 nights..  If 3 nights of payment works or 12 nights a month.  But you only have to deal with 4 turnovers I kind of like that.  

    I have seen 3 month minimums works in Vegas as well for over double standard rent. 

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Sedona, AZ · Member since 2017 · 754 posts · 504 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Keith Schulz:

    I currently own and operate a short term rental in northern Wisconsin (as well as manage several traditional rentals). I'm curious what others are seeing across the country in terms of city and state regulation of short term rentals? 

    My short term rental has far out performed any of my traditional rentals by a long shot (but it's more work to manage). I've considered buying more, but I'm very hesitant because local governments seem very anti vacation rental property. For awhile some counties in Wisconsin had actually outlawed short term rentals on residential properties. In 2017 Wisconsin’s Right to Rent law prevented municipalities from banning short term rentals entirely. However, municipalities are allowed to have some significant restrictions. One of these possible restrictions is requiring a minimum of a 7-night stay, in other words you couldn’t rent your home out for the weekend. Another possible restriction is renting for a maximum of 180 consecutive nights in a year. For example, if you started your short-term rentals in April, you’d need to stop in September. Many of the municipalities that I have checked with (Madison included) follow these two restrictions. These restrictions can turn a great property into a flop, because if you wipe out half the year and eliminate 2-6 night rentals you lose a large portion of your rentals.

    Now I see the news in Colorado that the Aspen City Council ordered a stop to new development and short term rental licensing. I've seriously considered buying a rental in places like Aspen, Gatlinburg, Florida, etc. However, it's really scary that the local government could just change their rules and turn your property from a great investment to a terrible one. Even scarier that it's happening in areas where tourism is what drives their economy. 

    What are your thoughts, is heavier restriction on vacation rentals a growing trend? What are you seeing in your area? Am I being too cautious? 

    All I can say is, thank goodness Arizona is so landlord friendly and real estate savvy.

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Bruce Woodruff:
    Originally posted by @Keith Schulz:

    Until December 8th Aspen was STR friendly, and then suddenly they shut down permitting. I'm not trying to argue, just pointing out that things can change quickly and that's my concern.

    Absolutely NOT trying to get political here , but since it affects your business you need to note that left leaning areas (like Aspen) are generally going to end up being more restrictive of your STR. This is not just an opinion, you (and should) search your favorite search engine to verify which areas will be more favorable to your goals...

    Do you find it odd and even an oxymoron that liberals when played out in real life is more restrictive than the conservatives?

  • Member since 2021 · 168 posts · 142 votes
    4y

    I think this is a more complex topic than some lead to believe. For example, Breckinridge has been in discussions to grandfather str’s, but only for 2 years. So even grandfathering isn’t always “safe” . As for other areas, hoa’s can put a stop to even the friendliest of states, such as Arizona. I’d rather going into a place that has current restrictions or rural, because i feel there will be less surprises. 

  • Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 5 votes
    4y

    I'm very green to this space but I always evaluate the property for LTR first, albeit keeps me priced out of some areas that are all valued on STR potential. If the local government becomes anti-STR, then I may have lost on the crazy upside but at least I can sustain or get out if need be. I'm clueless about how safe a Long-term STR is (+7 or +30 days in this instance), but it sounds like that could be a great Plan B as well. It seems to me if you truly want the legal protection of your STR property, you'll be paying for it with the higher costs for the property (at least in my corner of Florida) and then STR isn't really worth it at that point from a cashflow perspective :/

    Take everything I'm saying with a huge grain of salt, this is just what I've noticed in my area that has STR-friendly districts.

  • Investor · Verona, WI · Member since 2008 · 134 posts · 79 votes
    4y

    @Grant Anderson Unfortunately most STRs don't make a lot of sense as a long term rental. My current STR is making a 35% cash on cash return, and has exceeded 80% returns over the last 2 years if I factor in appreciation and principal paydown. If it were a long term rental it would be significant negative cashflow. However, I would have considered buying this property anyway for my own use because I go there 5 or 6 times a year. ...but that's not the case with other STRs, which I think is why I'm struggling to have the confidence in buying a second one.

    @Jeff Langley I agree. I don't trust relying on the grandfathering aspect. I don't trust much of anything where I need to rely on government decisions. Also I agree that places that have some current policy in place might be better than a place that hasn't yet developed a policy. One municipality I was looking at had no policy setup and relied on county and state regulations, but every municipality surrounding it was very restrictive. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Madison, WI · Member since 2015 · 118 posts · 60 votes
    4y

    Zoning changes, I suppose are always a calculated risk.  A friend of mine sold his Madison long term rental and exchanged to a short term vacation rental in Door county which had a swimming pool.  He found out later that he can't let renters use the pool (at least in WI at this time) as it doesn't have a commercial license (or something like that).  It did sound from him like groups are pushing to change that law in WI, but guessing that some hotel lobby group pushed for that to try to encourage people wanting a pool to have to stay at a larger hotel.

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Keith Schulz:

    @Bruce Woodruff Yes, Wisconsin is the same now. They do not allow local municipalities to ban, but they can regulate, and the regulations are fairly restrictive. 

    @Luke Carl I'm not so sure being surrounded by vacation rentals everywhere is the answer. You are surrounded by your competition which drives prices down. For example I stayed in a very nice place in Orlando for $200/night. In an area with fewer rentals it could have easily been 400/night. Additional Orlando is an absolute mess when it comes to this. Waiting in line at a security gate for an hour and a half on a Friday evening to get into a neighborhood is no way to start a vacation. Going to the Walmart to find they are out of toilet paper and garbage backs sucks, and going out to eat with 2.5 hour waits with hungry kids is not pleasant. Gatlinburg on the other hand has handled the heavy vacation rental market better. ...but I'm still not sold on the saturated markets. I'm open to hearing more though. 

    Orlando is a swamp turned into a theme park. People visiting Orlando want to stay at hotels on or close to theme parks, so that is the competition to STR. Compare that to Gatlinburg, which is in the mountains and the primary preference of visitors is staying in mountain cabins. I have been to Northern Wisconsin and I assume lake cabins perform the best, because that is a preference for travelers. I have been to Orlando and we stayed in a hotel near a theme park. I have been to Gatlinburg and we stayed in a cabin with mountain view. I don't think it is the amount of competition, as much as it is the type of property and demand for the area.

    Yes, STR restrictions are not ideal, but they can also work to your advantage. Everyone follows the same rules, so if 7 day rental is required, it means everyone looking for STR in the area must book 7 days. Of course if they have a hotel option that allows just the weekend, that could be an issue.

    Bottom line, some vacation destinations have had vacation rentals for years. The STR phenomenon has no effect on these markets. Where cities and counties seem to restrict the most is when STR are bleeding into residential neighborhoods and taking housing from residents. Think about it logically, without a place for people to live in a city, would it even be a good vacation destination? You need people to run a city. Laws are passed by elected officials, so if the people are sick of vacation rentals invading their neighborhood, this will be an issue.

    My best advice is buy on a lake, near the ocean or in the mountains and you will be fine. 

  • Jonathan DempseyBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Pocono Pines, PA · Member since 2018 · 153 posts · 117 votes
    4y

    Hey @Keith Schulz! 

    In Philadelphia, I can see regulations around STRs starting to become more common.

    In other areas, they either hate them and shut down the permitting or don't mind them and let them be. The main thing to take away from this is that things can change quickly! I can't stress to you enough to make sure to do your research on the area and consistently keep up with any regulation changes that happen.

     Feel free to reach out if you ever need anything! Always happy to help!

    Live Free, 

    JD

  • Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 941 votes
    4y

    @Keith Schulz I am in Austin, TX where they have strict STR laws. They require a license for everything under 30 days. I pivoted to doing monthly rentals on Airbnb and have made double LTR rates. It's definitely not as good as STR but it's a great in-between especially in expensive markets. The best part is it is not that much work! I don't have anything automated with software and spend maybe 20 minutes messaging guests per month. I haven't had any problems with any of my guests trashing the property because they treat it more like their home if they are there for more than a month. I think it's a great option if you want to avoid a lot of the headaches that come with doing STR.

  • Rental Property Investor · Madison, WI · Member since 2020 · 91 posts · 71 votes
    4y

    Keith not only are we neighbors, we're thinking along the exact same lines. I'm looking to purchase an STR within driving distance of Madison and what I've discovered through my research is townships that, while they cannot outright ban TRH (tourist rooming houses), they subject them to a conditional use permit through the zoning office. This conditional use permit would then need to be renewed every year. In other areas, such as the Village of Lake Delton, they implement the 7 day minimum and have a sunset clause for those TRH permittees who are allowed to rent for fewer than 7 days. I'm still hunting for an area where there is sufficient demand and TRH are allowed. However, one strategy I think may work is to purchase a large piece of land, say minimum 5 acres and build a unique tiny house (or similar) to mitigate neighbor issues and obtain a CU permit. This is similar to what Robuilt is doing in some areas

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Joe S.:

    Do you find it odd and even an oxymoron that liberals when played out in real life is more restrictive than the conservatives?

    Yeah I know, right....?

  • Member since 2021 · 1 post · 0 votes
    4y

    I have worked in land planning/development, engineering and construction for 30 years. I used to conduct feasibility research and develop reports for our large commercial clients to be used by their real estate investment teams to evaluate deals (land development and raze and rebuild). It was my job to find everything "wrong" with the property; the allowed/prohibited uses, bulk requirements, permitting maze, constructability, etc. After the client conducted their market research for the type of business they were going to build and operate, and put in offers on land, they would hire us to do a deep dive into permitting, design, construction etc. The first area of research is a thorough zoning code review. The findings will quickly narrow down the list of viable properties. Next, check the AHJ's (authority having jurisdiction) pending code changes related to STRs. These will be on the AHJ's website, posted in the local newspaper and social media. It's a simple task that the average layperson can do that won't cost you anything to do, and it will weed out the properties that don't allow STR or are located in AHJs that have pending code changes to prohibit STRs.

  • Michael BlumBusiness Member
    NC · Member since 2018 · 55 posts · 49 votes
    4y

    @Keith Schulz - I am not 100% aware of your market, but something to consider is making sure you always have a solid exit strategy with your investment. If your property works well as an STR but not as a LTR, what is your plan B? Appreciation? Sell and 1031 exchange? I'm in the Asheville NC, Hendersonville NC market and we do a lot of business with out-of-town STR investors. One thing we always stress with them is having that exit strategy. Outside of AVL, there are not too many STR restrictions, so this has worked out well so far. And even if the market changes in favor of LTRs, our clients have baked that into their investments. What are your thoughts?

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    4y

    Almost all of the legislation in the US is driven by special interest groups. There is almost zero correlation between public opinion and legislation (a well known Harvard study). So in case you didn't know, America is run by money and we are "that type" of a democracy.. 

    So the question at hand is, who would influence local legisalation in Verona? Do you have big hotels with connections to your municipal goverment who are loosing revenue to STR and would benefit for a licensing requirement for STR?

    Or the other way around, are there enough STR to lobby for open policy? Is STR brining more tourism to Verona?

    Every politician knows "If in doubt, lean to the green"

  • Realtor · Asbury Park, NJ · Member since 2019 · 63 posts · 44 votes
    4y

    I am experiencing the same thing investing in the North East, I am seeing property prices in historically STR friendly areas be higher, while areas with deed restrictions driving down prices in STR markets such as the Poconos. In vacation area it is difficult to find a property that will rent long term and generate positive cashflow especially when paying higher prices for these vacation homes that have increased in demand. I've seen as much a 30% premium on properties just because it is in a historically STR friendly area. The market is pricing in the additional income opportunity and lack of risk as a premium on price which in the event things do shift, I will be left holding the bag as I have overpaid.

  • Kenneth GarrettPro Member
    Investor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    @Keith Schulz

    I have a number of LTR in Illinois. Not the best state for landlords. I bought a STR in the Florida Panhandle. It does fantastic. The economy is driven by vacationers. To eliminate them or make extreme restrictions would hurt the economy. Be careful where you invest. Yes, there's competition, but the numbers speak for themselves. I'm cashing out of Illinois and reinvesting in Florida.

    Good Luck.

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