Scummy realtor behavior in hot market

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Scummy realtor behavior in hot market

Wilson Hunter
Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2020 · 210 posts · 302 votes

So I just had a verbal off market deal in place with a real estate agent in the Smokies who owns a lot of his own cabins (this is not someone who is active here!). I saw the property today while I was in town, agreed on terms (everything including days to close and earnest money), and he had me text him all my personal info so we could work up a contract and sign within the hour. I decided to pull over in a restaurant on my drive halfway back home to Virginia to wait for the contract to come in, and boom, I get a Zillow app alert that the property I had agreed to buy from this guy suddenly hit the MLS $50k over our agreed to price. I called him up, and he was basically like "I realized that I can probably get more, you can still submit an offer and we can see what happens."

This is my first foray into off market negotiations. Is this normal? How do people reputationally get away with this stuff?

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y

And that's the problem with where our world has devolved to....A man's word used to be good. Now it's not and most people on the forum thinks that is fine. Sad.

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  • Luke CarlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    Hum. I totally understand your frustration. His mistake was not asking you to pay the higher price first I suppose. To me in 2022 “off market” means “that’ll cost you extra.”  Can’t fault the guy for wanting to get as much money as possible. 

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    9Reply
  • Dustin Allen
    Real Estate Agent · South Lake Tahoe, CA · Member since 2016 · 680 posts · 644 votes
    4y

    @Wilson Hunter

    It’s unfortunate that the guy chose not to do what he said he would. This isn’t “scummy realtor” behavior though. This was an owner who changed his mind before signing a contract. The fact that he was a realtor had nothing to do with it. You don’t have a valid contract until it’s in writing and signed by both parties.

    26Reply
  • Wilson Hunter
    OP
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2020 · 210 posts · 302 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Luke Carl:

    Hum. I totally understand your frustration. His mistake was not asking you to pay the higher price first I suppose. To me in 2022 “off market” means “that’ll cost you extra.”  Can’t fault the guy for wanting to get as much money as possible. 

    Certainly can’t fault the guy for wanting more money. I also think I was paying exactly what he’d normally get on the market for it - it wasn’t a steal by any means, just a great cabin at a fair price for both parties. So good luck to him on what he just listed it for, it’s definitely high.

    What is totally scummy is that we got all terms in place and I sent him my personal information for the contract and see via an app alert that he's decided to cancel the deal by listing it on the MLS without telling me. His assistant had told me that the contract is coming over soon so I had stopped at a random Cracker Barrel in North Carolina to wait a bit for the mailbox ping.

    I told my wife that we were getting into cabins because it’s way more fun than my regular job 😂. Still is most days. Oh well back on the road. :)

    4Reply
  • Wilson Hunter
    OP
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2020 · 210 posts · 302 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Dustin Allen:

    @Wilson Hunter

    It’s unfortunate that the guy chose not to do what he said he would. This isn’t “scummy realtor” behavior though. This was an owner who changed his mind before signing a contract. The fact that he was a realtor had nothing to do with it. You don’t have a valid contract until it’s in writing and signed by both parties.

    The owner is a licensed real estate agent which I think is relevant.

    7Reply
  • Luke CarlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Wilson Hunter:
    Originally posted by @Luke Carl:

    Hum. I totally understand your frustration. His mistake was not asking you to pay the higher price first I suppose. To me in 2022 “off market” means “that’ll cost you extra.”  Can’t fault the guy for wanting to get as much money as possible. 

    Certainly can’t fault the guy for wanting more money. I also think I was paying exactly what he’d normally get on the market for it - it wasn’t a steal by any means, just a great cabin at a fair price for both parties. So good luck to him on what he just listed it for, it’s definitely high.

    What is totally scummy is that we got all terms in place and I sent him my personal information for the contract and see via an app alert that he's decided to cancel the deal by listing it on the MLS without telling me. His assistant had told me that the contract is coming over soon so I had stopped at a random Cracker Barrel in North Carolina to wait a bit for the mailbox ping.

    I told my wife that we were getting into cabins because it’s way more fun than my regular job 😂. Still is most days. Oh well back on the road. :)

     Yeah I’m sorry bud I feel your pain. Also agree with the other guys comment though. I think you got “southern gentleman-ed” 


    you’ll get kicked around a few more times before the magic happens. 

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    4Reply
  • Dustin Allen
    Real Estate Agent · South Lake Tahoe, CA · Member since 2016 · 680 posts · 644 votes
    4y

    @Wilson Hunter

    How is it relevant? He wasn’t representing you in any way. If he was a hairdresser, would you have titled the post “Scummy hairdresser behavior in hot market”?

    Write the offer you were going to write and see if you can still get the property. Would be much more productive than bashing an industry over one persons actions. Wait too long and maybe someone will pay his new asking price.

    10Reply
  • Wilson Hunter
    OP
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2020 · 210 posts · 302 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Luke Carl:
    Originally posted by @Wilson Hunter:
    Originally posted by @Luke Carl:

    Hum. I totally understand your frustration. His mistake was not asking you to pay the higher price first I suppose. To me in 2022 “off market” means “that’ll cost you extra.”  Can’t fault the guy for wanting to get as much money as possible. 

    Certainly can’t fault the guy for wanting more money. I also think I was paying exactly what he’d normally get on the market for it - it wasn’t a steal by any means, just a great cabin at a fair price for both parties. So good luck to him on what he just listed it for, it’s definitely high.

    What is totally scummy is that we got all terms in place and I sent him my personal information for the contract and see via an app alert that he's decided to cancel the deal by listing it on the MLS without telling me. His assistant had told me that the contract is coming over soon so I had stopped at a random Cracker Barrel in North Carolina to wait a bit for the mailbox ping.

    I told my wife that we were getting into cabins because it’s way more fun than my regular job 😂. Still is most days. Oh well back on the road. :)

     Yeah I’m sorry bud I feel your pain. Also agree with the other guys comment though. I think you got “southern gentleman-ed” 


    you’ll get kicked around a few more times before the magic happens. 

     Thanks for the encouragement, Luke - insightful words.

    1Reply
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    4y

    How is this scummy? Why should someone sell to you for less money than they could sell it to someone else for? A verbal offer means nothing...thats why the statute of frauds requires the sale of real estate be in writing. 

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    11Reply
  • Wilson Hunter
    OP
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2020 · 210 posts · 302 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Dustin Allen:

    @Wilson Hunter

    How is it relevant? He wasn’t representing you in any way. If he was a hairdresser, would you have titled the post “Scummy hairdresser behavior in hot market”?

    Write the offer you were going to write and see if you can still get the property. Would be much more productive than bashing an industry over one persons actions. Wait too long and maybe someone will pay his new asking price.

    If you're a known agent and have your assistant who is also an agent collecting personal info from the buyer after to agreeing to a deal while you are simultaneously firing up an MLS listing behind the scenes (expecting that I probably won't see it because the only way I do is if I get app alert) - I think it's more relevant than being a hairdresser. What he wanted me to do is submit a signed offer that I thought was really a mutual agreement and have no idea that he was going to nest on it for a while to go fishing. He probably then pretends to be busy since it's Friday night and see what action he can get before I start asking questions around lunch time tomorrow. Not all real estate agents who care about their reputations will lie to your face to get an edge. But I definitely got "southern gentleman'ed" which is my fault. I think you misread the title if you think I'm "bashing the industry" because I'm referring about one specific realtor not the realtor metaverse.

    To be clear it’s a great learning experience and I’ll get better from it, but sometimes you just need to rant. :)

    14Reply
  • Wilson Hunter
    OP
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2020 · 210 posts · 302 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    How is this scummy? Why should someone sell to you for less money than they could sell it to someone else for? A verbal offer means nothing...thats why the statute of frauds requires the sale of contract be in writing. 

    There’s a difference between illegal and scummy. Not everyone lives life by “it’s fine as long as it’s legal.”

    19Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    And that's the problem with where our world has devolved to....A man's word used to be good. Now it's not and most people on the forum thinks that is fine. Sad.

    41Reply
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Wilson Hunter:
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    How is this scummy? Why should someone sell to you for less money than they could sell it to someone else for? A verbal offer means nothing...thats why the statute of frauds requires the sale of contract be in writing. 

    There’s a difference between illegal and scummy. Not everyone lives life by “it’s fine as long as it’s legal.”

     Not everyone lives life either by thinking someone should have to sell them a property for less than its worth.

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    2Reply
  • Mike Dymski
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y

    It's a volume game...tons of opportunities through the deal funnel and lots and lots of offers.  On the flip side of the coin, the realtors on this site could tell story after story about all the tire kickers and buyers who flake out.

    Sorry you had to deal with this...you'll get one soon.

    8Reply
  • Jeff Gold
    Member since 2018 · 72 posts · 59 votes
    4y

    @Wilson Hunter it’s interesting to see the perspectives given based on everyone’s vantage point.

    Is it “okay” to say one thing (make a verbal agreement) and do something else?

    Since the market is hot does that provide an excuse to not be upfront?

    Hey…. He could have just said…”it was great meeting you today. After some deep thought & reflection  I realized it would be more advantageous to list on mls because I feel Like I can most likely get a better deal.” 

    If you are still interested let me know and would be happy to look over your offer.

    Not sure why some feel the need to stick up for realtor because it’s a good market and he should get more for his place. That’s just pure nonsense to me.  

    To me, it’s how this guy handled the whole deal. 

    I agree… sleazy and underhanded. 

    Be upfront. Respect the man’s time you  just met with.

    Period.

    It’s amazing how Money can blind so many…

    26Reply
  • Wilson Hunter
    OP
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2020 · 210 posts · 302 votes
    4y

    Thanks for the encouragement! I’m considering this a great learning experience and am ready to roll for my next offer.

    2Reply
  • Josue Vargas
    Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 814 posts · 466 votes
    4y

    Unfortunate.  You can sue but most likely you will not win the case because it was a verbal agreement... not sure, talk to a lawyer/attorney.  No signed Real Estate agreement is equal to no agreement at all in most states.  However, I will strongly recommend you get an agent or broker to represent you in the future.  They will know what to do and most likely avoid this type of situations.  Good luck. 

    5Reply
  • Steve Vaughan
    Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    4y

    Depending on the price, $50k (if he gets it) may have the same net to him.  I'm paying $35k for a realtor to bring a buyer right now. 

    He may have underhand shaded you over for nothing.  Let that sink in and play with this snake no more. 

    7Reply
  • Patti RobertsonBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    It's not a deal until it's ratified.  You could have backed out too up until that point.  FAR more buyers back out, even after ratification, than sellers do.  Sorry this happened. Submit your offer though.  If he doesn't get any bites you may still win the deal!

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    10Reply
  • Bob Okenwa
    Real Estate Agent/Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Wilson Hunter

    People change their minds all the time. I've seen investors make verbal deals then back out or try to lower the price after the fact. I've seen retail buyers sign contracts then get cold feet and back out before they submit earnest money. I've seen sellers decide to pull their property off the market then come back a week later and list it with a new agent behind the original agent's back.

    Not sure what your experience level is, but if you stay in this game long enough, you will see your fair share of unfavorable things happen. I bet I can get damn near every seasoned agent from California to Maine to share a story about a flaky buyer or investor as well. 

    It's simply the Law of Averages at play here my friend. Some deals will be just ok, some will be great, and some will suck and fall apart. The owner/seller took you for a ride and didn't hold up his word which isn't fun, but happens in all walks of life. Doesn't really matter that he's an agent or if he was a truck driver or a barber. He didn't represent you and as the owner of the property, wasn't representing the seller in the traditional sense and decided to get as much as he could for his property. Humans are inherently selfish. If you didn't know this before, you sure do know it now. Find another deal and use this experience to get everything in writing and try to sign the contract upfront if possible. Good luck going forward.

    6Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:

    It's a volume game...tons of opportunities through the deal funnel and lots and lots of offers.  On the flip side of the coin, the realtors on this site could tell story after story about all the tire kickers and buyers who flake out.

    Sorry you had to deal with this...you'll get one soon.

    Exactly this OP should be glad it only cost him a short stop at Cracker barrel..  just think of all the sale fails and all the ways they can fail after your IN contract.. EM up inspections done  and the seller cant / wont close..  this OP should count himself lucky in this scenario

    its a pretty wild market out there I mean you get offers and then you sign a counter its out for signature but then a much better one comes in and the buyer is late to sign and you take the other offer sign and date it and time stamp it and the orginal buyer is out and not to happy it happens.. however as we know  TIMES is of the ESSENCE and especially now..  U take further risk with off market properties. Regardless of who the seller it.. Especially wholesalers who have no clue and are marketing a property that could never close because of a title issue and you dont find that out until long way into the process.. 

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  • Quincy Lockett
    South Holland, IL · Member since 2017 · 374 posts · 432 votes
    4y

    @Wilson Hunter

    In my opinion (and most courts), verbal agreements are inconsequential. I’m sure this situation won’t affect his reputation. The realtor is basically a capitalist just as you plan to be. The lesson IMO is to get a written agreement in the future.

    4Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Josue Vargas:

    Unfortunate.  You can sue but most likely you will not win the case because it was a verbal agreement... not sure, talk to a lawyer/attorney.  No signed Real Estate agreement is equal to no agreement at all in most states.  However, I will strongly recommend you get an agent or broker to represent you in the future.  They will know what to do and most likely avoid this type of situations.  Good luck. 

    what a good broker will tell U is what all the brokers on this thread are saying.. you DONT have a deal until you have a fully ratified contract with YOUR EM deposited.  A lawyer in this scenario would be a colossal waste of time and money.  there are no damages 

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  • Wilson Hunter
    OP
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2020 · 210 posts · 302 votes
    4y

    I understand when people say that it's not legally a deal until it's in writing, but the point of my post is that it's underhanded and scummy behavior. It's also not someone "changing their mind" - it's lying to my face that we have agreed to a deal while collecting my personal information and terms for a contract while simultaneously listing it on the MLS.

    There are different ways of being a “capitalist.” It’s entirely possible to make money and act honorably. You don’t have to be a stone cold liar to be successful.

    10Reply
  • Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Wilson Hunter in our state even a contract is no guarantee you wi get the home. Until a fully executed contract goes through attorney approval it’s not a live contract.

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  • Paul Sandhu
    Investor · The worst town to live in, KS · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    I had a realtor try something similar to me.  We had made an offer on a house, then she calls a few days later and says there is another offer.  Give me your best offer.  I said I already did.  The house didn't sell.

    A year later, same realtor, same story.  But this time I retracted my offer and got back my earnest money.  Told the realtor "let the other people have it."  2 weeks later she calls me back and asks me to make my offer again.

    There was no 2nd offer in either case.

    7Reply
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