Scummy realtor behavior in hot market
Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2020 · 210 posts · 302 votes
Scummy realtor behavior in hot market
Most Popular Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votesAnd that's the problem with where our world has devolved to....A man's word used to be good. Now it's not and most people on the forum thinks that is fine. Sad.
119 Replies
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2019 · 33 posts · 55 votes4y
Mr. Hunter: You wrote a post that - in my reading - that dealt with how you didn't get a good deal on a cabin. How much did you offer? What was the market value of the property? How far below market did you offer? Why didn't you get something in writing at that moment to cement the deal? Were YOU committed to doing the deal? What would have happened if the contract came with terms you didn't like? Did you guarantee to the owner that you were going to purchase the cabin? You keep trashing the guy based on the fact that he was a Realtor, and now with righteous indignation, bring to the table evidence that he's a ****. But as I pointed out in my second post, we only have your side of the story.
It may be that he acted in bad faith, but as I also pointed out, this is an investment forum, and without a written contract, the owner of a property would be an idiot to not jump at the chance to make top dollar from his investment.
I also do not appreciate your categorizing me (or other agents) as dishonest or unethical. The more I read the post and your comments, the more I feel like it's a case of sour grapes on your part - you failed to act in your own best interests, and find it easier to trash the other guy, rather than to admit that you blew it by not getting it in writing. If you are an investor as you claim, that would have been a pretty relevant bit of knowledge to have.
- 4yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Bob Galivan:
Mr. Hunter: You wrote a post that - in my reading - that dealt with how you didn't get a good deal on a cabin. How much did you offer? What was the market value of the property? How far below market did you offer? Why didn't you get something in writing at that moment to cement the deal? Were YOU committed to doing the deal? What would have happened if the contract came with terms you didn't like? Did you guarantee to the owner that you were going to purchase the cabin? You keep trashing the guy based on the fact that he was a Realtor, and now with righteous indignation, bring to the table evidence that he's a ****. But as I pointed out in my second post, we only have your side of the story.
It may be that he acted in bad faith, but as I also pointed out, this is an investment forum, and without a written contract, the owner of a property would be an idiot to not jump at the chance to make top dollar from his investment.
I also do not appreciate your categorizing me (or other agents) as dishonest or unethical. The more I read the post and your comments, the more I feel like it's a case of sour grapes on your part - you failed to act in your own best interests, and find it easier to trash the other guy, rather than to admit that you blew it by not getting it in writing. If you are an investor as you claim, that would have been a pretty relevant bit of knowledge to have.
exactly the buyer BLEW it. simple as that people change their minds all the time.. that's why car dealers never let you leave the lot until you sign the contract.. they know there are no be backs.. So I suspect the OP will now carry a contract with him and go for the close on the spot if he is getting what he feels is a great deal and does not want it exposed to other buyers.
- Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2020 · 210 posts · 302 votes4y
Originally posted by @Bob Galivan:
Mr. Hunter: You wrote a post that - in my reading - that dealt with how you didn't get a good deal on a cabin. How much did you offer? What was the market value of the property? How far below market did you offer? Why didn't you get something in writing at that moment to cement the deal? Were YOU committed to doing the deal? What would have happened if the contract came with terms you didn't like? Did you guarantee to the owner that you were going to purchase the cabin? You keep trashing the guy based on the fact that he was a Realtor, and now with righteous indignation, bring to the table evidence that he's a ****. But as I pointed out in my second post, we only have your side of the story.
It may be that he acted in bad faith, but as I also pointed out, this is an investment forum, and without a written contract, the owner of a property would be an idiot to not jump at the chance to make top dollar from his investment.
Bob, read the posts. I have repeated multiple times that the seller is the one who offered me a price and I took it.
Jay, read the posts, no one changed their mind.
This is not a story of me hunting cheap off market deals. A neighboring Airbnb owner who happens to be a shark of a broker and agent gave me a price on buying his cabin, and I agreed to it. He then proceeded to do some sketchy things like pretending that we had a deal while I caught him simultaneously listing it on the MLS for a higher price. He didn't just tell me he was backing out because he got a better offer. The listing is still sitting on the MLS right now available for offers.
I swear I cannot tell if people are intentionally misrepresenting the situation in their responses or if people just can’t read. I’m probably going to log out of here for a while because I’ve made my assessment based on feedback (1) there are some guys exactly like me out there who know this is messed up, thanks for letting me vent (2) there are many honorable real estate agents saying “that’s awful that he lied, here’s some practical advice” (much appreciated) (3) there’s a handful of shark brokers with a couple decades of experience, thousands of posts, infinite BP resume boosters like podcast guest appearances or moderator status - and most of these guys very clearly have a different ethical standard than myself and seem to live life by a different playbook. Note to self: always remember this when listening to the podcast and being motivated by success stories on BP.
- Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes4y
Originally posted by @Wilson Hunter:
Originally posted by @Bob Galivan:
Mr. Hunter: You wrote a post that - in my reading - that dealt with how you didn't get a good deal on a cabin. How much did you offer? What was the market value of the property? How far below market did you offer? Why didn't you get something in writing at that moment to cement the deal? Were YOU committed to doing the deal? What would have happened if the contract came with terms you didn't like? Did you guarantee to the owner that you were going to purchase the cabin? You keep trashing the guy based on the fact that he was a Realtor, and now with righteous indignation, bring to the table evidence that he's a ****. But as I pointed out in my second post, we only have your side of the story.
It may be that he acted in bad faith, but as I also pointed out, this is an investment forum, and without a written contract, the owner of a property would be an idiot to not jump at the chance to make top dollar from his investment.
Bob, read the posts. I have repeated multiple times that the seller is the one who offered me a price and I took it.
Jay, read the posts, no one changed their mind.
This is not a story of me hunting cheap off market deals. A neighboring Airbnb owner who happens to be a shark of a broker and agent gave me a price on buying his cabin, and I agreed to it. He then proceeded to do some sketchy things like pretending that we had a deal while I caught him simultaneously listing it on the MLS for a higher price. He didn't just tell me he was backing out because he got a better offer. The listing is still sitting on the MLS right now available for offers.
I swear I cannot tell if people are intentionally misrepresenting the situation in their responses or if people just can’t read. I’m probably going to log out of here for a while because I’ve made my assessment based on feedback (1) there are some guys exactly like me out there who know this is messed up, thanks for letting me vent (2) there are many honorable real estate agents saying “that’s awful that he lied, here’s some practical advice” (much appreciated) (3) there’s a handful of shark brokers with a couple decades of experience, thousands of posts, infinite BP resume boosters like podcast guest appearances or moderator status - and most of these guys very clearly have a different ethical standard than myself and seem to live life by a different playbook. Note to self: always remember this when listening to the podcast and being motivated by success stories on BP.
The fact that you see an ethical problem here because you failed to close a deal, and the fact that you are trying to throw shade on people who disagree with you and call them unethical shows a lot about your character. Youve got tunnel vision and think anyone who doesnt agree with you is an unethical *******. Btw, I never had reason to question your character til the point where you multiple times implied I was unethical. Maybe you just need to get that all these individuals with a lot of experience learn not to blame other people when we fail to close a deal. Like I said earlier in the thread, it will go a long way towards your business when you try to stop blaming others, and look inward as to how to improve. It will also go a long way when you learn to listen instead of trying to throw shade at the character of others because you're stuck in tunnel vision.
As many do, you came to the BP forums, or any where people do on the internet simply looking for confirmation bias. You were not looking for an honest assessment of the situation, you just wanted to hear people tell you you were right to feel good about yourself, then you just lash out with those that disagree with you. That's what the world is these days though.
"You don't truly win an argument until they attack your person" - Nassim Taleb
District Invest Group545 Reviews - Residential Real Estate Broker · Sedona, AZ · Member since 2017 · 754 posts · 504 votes4y
Originally posted by @Wilson Hunter:
So I just had a verbal off market deal in place with a real estate agent in the Smokies who owns a lot of his own cabins (this is not someone who is active here!). I saw the property today while I was in town, agreed on terms (everything including days to close and earnest money), and he had me text him all my personal info so we could work up a contract and sign within the hour. I decided to pull over in a restaurant on my drive halfway back home to Virginia to wait for the contract to come in, and boom, I get a Zillow app alert that the property I had agreed to buy from this guy suddenly hit the MLS $50k over our agreed to price. I called him up, and he was basically like "I realized that I can probably get more, you can still submit an offer and we can see what happens."
This is my first foray into off market negotiations. Is this normal? How do people reputationally get away with this stuff?
Wilson,
the realtor did not handle that ethically. That's a real shame. There are definitely bad apples out there.
- 4yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Wilson Hunter:
Originally posted by @Bob Galivan:
Mr. Hunter: You wrote a post that - in my reading - that dealt with how you didn't get a good deal on a cabin. How much did you offer? What was the market value of the property? How far below market did you offer? Why didn't you get something in writing at that moment to cement the deal? Were YOU committed to doing the deal? What would have happened if the contract came with terms you didn't like? Did you guarantee to the owner that you were going to purchase the cabin? You keep trashing the guy based on the fact that he was a Realtor, and now with righteous indignation, bring to the table evidence that he's a ****. But as I pointed out in my second post, we only have your side of the story.
It may be that he acted in bad faith, but as I also pointed out, this is an investment forum, and without a written contract, the owner of a property would be an idiot to not jump at the chance to make top dollar from his investment.
Bob, read the posts. I have repeated multiple times that the seller is the one who offered me a price and I took it.
Jay, read the posts, no one changed their mind.
This is not a story of me hunting cheap off market deals. A neighboring Airbnb owner who happens to be a shark of a broker and agent gave me a price on buying his cabin, and I agreed to it. He then proceeded to do some sketchy things like pretending that we had a deal while I caught him simultaneously listing it on the MLS for a higher price. He didn't just tell me he was backing out because he got a better offer. The listing is still sitting on the MLS right now available for offers.
I swear I cannot tell if people are intentionally misrepresenting the situation in their responses or if people just can’t read. I’m probably going to log out of here for a while because I’ve made my assessment based on feedback (1) there are some guys exactly like me out there who know this is messed up, thanks for letting me vent (2) there are many honorable real estate agents saying “that’s awful that he lied, here’s some practical advice” (much appreciated) (3) there’s a handful of shark brokers with a couple decades of experience, thousands of posts, infinite BP resume boosters like podcast guest appearances or moderator status - and most of these guys very clearly have a different ethical standard than myself and seem to live life by a different playbook. Note to self: always remember this when listening to the podcast and being motivated by success stories on BP.
The fact that you see an ethical problem here because you failed to close a deal, and the fact that you are trying to throw shade on people who disagree with you and call them unethical shows a lot about your character. Youve got tunnel vision and think anyone who doesnt agree with you is an unethical *******. Btw, I never had reason to question your character til the point where you multiple times implied I was unethical. Maybe you just need to get that all these individuals with a lot of experience learn not to blame other people when we fail to close a deal. Like I said earlier in the thread, it will go a long way towards your business when you try to stop blaming others, and look inward as to how to improve. It will also go a long way when you learn to listen instead of trying to throw shade at the character of others because you're stuck in tunnel vision.
As many do, you came to the BP forums, or any where people do on the internet simply looking for confirmation bias. You were not looking for an honest assessment of the situation, you just wanted to hear people tell you you were right to feel good about yourself, then you just lash out with those that disagree with you. That's what the world is these days though.
kind of reminds me of the greatest sales person in the world a 9 year old child even though they are wrong they will continue to argue until you finally give up right ???
I can see where this person feels offended but that's the extent of it.. and of course like others have mentioned its only his slant on what occurred which is typical of BP like Paul Harvey used to say NOW for the REST OF the STORY sure miss Paul..
- 4yAlexander FelicePro MemberGuy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Wilson Hunter:
Originally posted by @Bob Galivan:
Mr. Hunter: You wrote a post that - in my reading - that dealt with how you didn't get a good deal on a cabin. How much did you offer? What was the market value of the property? How far below market did you offer? Why didn't you get something in writing at that moment to cement the deal? Were YOU committed to doing the deal? What would have happened if the contract came with terms you didn't like? Did you guarantee to the owner that you were going to purchase the cabin? You keep trashing the guy based on the fact that he was a Realtor, and now with righteous indignation, bring to the table evidence that he's a ****. But as I pointed out in my second post, we only have your side of the story.
It may be that he acted in bad faith, but as I also pointed out, this is an investment forum, and without a written contract, the owner of a property would be an idiot to not jump at the chance to make top dollar from his investment.
Bob, read the posts. I have repeated multiple times that the seller is the one who offered me a price and I took it.
Jay, read the posts, no one changed their mind.
This is not a story of me hunting cheap off market deals. A neighboring Airbnb owner who happens to be a shark of a broker and agent gave me a price on buying his cabin, and I agreed to it. He then proceeded to do some sketchy things like pretending that we had a deal while I caught him simultaneously listing it on the MLS for a higher price. He didn't just tell me he was backing out because he got a better offer. The listing is still sitting on the MLS right now available for offers.
I swear I cannot tell if people are intentionally misrepresenting the situation in their responses or if people just can’t read. I’m probably going to log out of here for a while because I’ve made my assessment based on feedback (1) there are some guys exactly like me out there who know this is messed up, thanks for letting me vent (2) there are many honorable real estate agents saying “that’s awful that he lied, here’s some practical advice” (much appreciated) (3) there’s a handful of shark brokers with a couple decades of experience, thousands of posts, infinite BP resume boosters like podcast guest appearances or moderator status - and most of these guys very clearly have a different ethical standard than myself and seem to live life by a different playbook. Note to self: always remember this when listening to the podcast and being motivated by success stories on BP.
The fact that you see an ethical problem here because you failed to close a deal, and the fact that you are trying to throw shade on people who disagree with you and call them unethical shows a lot about your character. Youve got tunnel vision and think anyone who doesnt agree with you is an unethical *******. Btw, I never had reason to question your character til the point where you multiple times implied I was unethical. Maybe you just need to get that all these individuals with a lot of experience learn not to blame other people when we fail to close a deal. Like I said earlier in the thread, it will go a long way towards your business when you try to stop blaming others, and look inward as to how to improve. It will also go a long way when you learn to listen instead of trying to throw shade at the character of others because you're stuck in tunnel vision.
As many do, you came to the BP forums, or any where people do on the internet simply looking for confirmation bias. You were not looking for an honest assessment of the situation, you just wanted to hear people tell you you were right to feel good about yourself, then you just lash out with those that disagree with you. That's what the world is these days though.
You don't truly win an argument until they attack your person
<3
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes4y
@Wilson Hunter Some of these people didn't even take time to read the story and reacted to the headline. Some are just butt hurt that you insulted a realtor and they are realtors. I think any good realtor will be the first to acknowledge there are plenty of bad actors in the profession. Many are just incompetent, which is why a minority of realtors do the majority of deals.
NAR code of ethics requires honesty, but we don't know if he was dishonest. If he agreed to sell the property to you, knowing he had no intent to sell, that is lying. If he agreed to sell the property to you and changed his mind, that is going back on his word. Not being "a man of your word" could be considered untrustworthy, but not dishonest. I have seen sellers, buyers, renters and landlords all go back on their word. People are generally flaky, which is why EVERYTHING must be in writing.
In hind sight, you should have said, "lets go back to your office and sign the paperwork. I will give you the earnest money deposit." I also think you made a mistake by not negotiating with him. Whenever someone offers a price, ALWAYS counter with a lower price. In a negotiation, you want to make the other person feel like they won. Agreeing to his first offer made him feel like he lost. He expected you to counter offer and when you didn't, it made him believe the price was too low. Whether it was low or not doesn't matter, it is what he believes that matters.
One of my favorite negotiation tactics is the reverse offer. Come back with a lower price offer in writing. Tell him you slept on it and realized your verbal offer wat too high. Sometimes you can get the other party to say "you offered X before, how about we just do it at that price". You have nothing to lose.
- Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2020 · 210 posts · 302 votes4y
Hey thanks for the constructive post, Joe. Makes a lot of sense to me and great to keep in mind for the future.
- Real Estate Broker · Marco Island FL. · Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 2 votes4y
I just had an offer with a listing agent let him have both sides and just wanted to lock up the deal quickly so I went in 5K over 250k asking price and I received a signed contract from seller for 255k, four hours later I get a call from agent to tell me a 285k offer came in and seller likes my cash offer better if I can go up to 270k than the property is mine and will come off the market today after walking property once more and justifying the increase I agree and we both sign again and I check MLS and its now showing under contract.
Four hours later right before bed I get another call from the agent to tell me bad news, that the seller now has a 325k cash offer is going to take that one, I told the agent if it doesn't work out don't call me because I was at my max on the property and I have no faith in it ever being a done deal at this point.
- Real Estate Broker · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 569 posts · 351 votes4y
If I would get a dollar for every time a buyer or seller says something and does not follow through I would be really rich! get over it
- 4yMyrtle Mike ThompsonBusiness MemberRealtor · Myrtle Beach, SC · Member since 2016 · 354 posts · 205 votes
I'm surprised to see your post has gotten 5 pages of comments! As a Realtor, I don't like his behavior. Signed versus verbal - it doesn't matter. What he did was unethical.
Myrtle Mike Real Estate581 Reviews wow, the level of comprehension from some of the realtor crowd is seriously lacking....
1 seller is the realtor
2 seller/realtor made uneducated offer to sell for under market and then got sellers remorse
3 seller/realtor did not communicate directly and honestly, instead was spineless and indirect and yes, that's sleazy!
There are only two things that make this better....
1 The seller/realtor does not make any blind uneducated random offers to sell, to begin with!!!
2 The seller/realtor instead communicates that he needs a few days to consider the verbal offer, and then does proper comps and either makes an off market deal with the OP(now that he is prepared)or notifies him that he's taking to market.
ALSO...to all the realtors....are realtor ProForma numbers always overstated, understated, or dead on accurate?????? Give me a break with the self-righteousness....salespeople of any product, can tend to be morally flexible, realtors are no different
THE REALITY IS...some people will consider unethical or questionable behavior to be ok, as long as it is not illegal....the replies in this thread imply that a higher percentage of people who think this way, are probably realtors....just sayin
To the realtors that DO get it, thanks for not being goofballs and for always underwriting with accurate expenses, income, and realistic ProFormas/comps!!!
Happy Holidays!!!!
Originally posted by @Isaac S.:
wow, the level of comprehension from some of the realtor crowd is seriously lacking....
1 seller is the realtor
2 seller/realtor made uneducated offer to sell for under market and then got sellers remorse
3 seller/realtor did not communicate directly and honestly, instead was spineless and indirect and yes, that's sleazy!
There are only two things that make this better....
1 The seller/realtor does not make any blind uneducated random offers to sell, to begin with!!!
2 The seller/realtor instead communicates that he needs a few days to consider the verbal offer, and then does proper comps and either makes an off market deal with the OP(now that he is prepared)or notifies him that he's taking to market.
ALSO...to all the realtors....are realtor ProForma numbers always overstated, understated, or dead on accurate?????? Give me a break with the self-righteousness....salespeople of any product, can tend to be morally flexible, realtors are no different
THE REALITY IS...some people will consider unethical or questionable behavior to be ok, as long as it is not illegal....the replies in this thread imply that a higher percentage of people who think this way, are probably realtors....just sayin
To the realtors that DO get it, thanks for not being goofballs and for always underwriting with accurate expenses, income, and realistic ProFormas/comps!!!
Happy Holidays!!!!
You should run your own proformas.
Originally posted by @Michael K.:
@Wilson Hunter
One thing I have learned while working with clients is people have very different relationships to money. Some people make it a game to get every single cent out of the transaction, some people think 1000 dollars one way or another is a big deal. Other people are not so price sensitive or nit-picky, and just want to save themselves a headache. Point is, you will run into both types, so be on the lookout.
This ^^^^. Some sellers will say they have other offers to drive the price up, when they don't. Some will switch out the luxury brand appliances with cheaper ones the day of closing. Some have a backup buyer waiting in the wings and if the first buyer breaches the contract (such as by not closing on time), they will then sell to the backup and keep the first buyer's earnest money, just because they like the idea of making that extra profit. Some people think nothing of suing over any little thing or stabbing their competition in the back at any opportunity they get. Some will fail to disclose material facts. Agents get a bad rap (some are deserving), but in my experience it's just as often that buyers and sellers are trying to find ways to screw each other, and agents are just trying to keep the crazy train on the rails so they can get paid.
Originally posted by @Steve K.:
Originally posted by @Isaac S.:
wow, the level of comprehension from some of the realtor crowd is seriously lacking....
1 seller is the realtor
2 seller/realtor made uneducated offer to sell for under market and then got sellers remorse
3 seller/realtor did not communicate directly and honestly, instead was spineless and indirect and yes, that's sleazy!
There are only two things that make this better....
1 The seller/realtor does not make any blind uneducated random offers to sell, to begin with!!!
2 The seller/realtor instead communicates that he needs a few days to consider the verbal offer, and then does proper comps and either makes an off market deal with the OP(now that he is prepared)or notifies him that he's taking to market.
ALSO...to all the realtors....are realtor ProForma numbers always overstated, understated, or dead on accurate?????? Give me a break with the self-righteousness....salespeople of any product, can tend to be morally flexible, realtors are no different
THE REALITY IS...some people will consider unethical or questionable behavior to be ok, as long as it is not illegal....the replies in this thread imply that a higher percentage of people who think this way, are probably realtors....just sayin
To the realtors that DO get it, thanks for not being goofballs and for always underwriting with accurate expenses, income, and realistic ProFormas/comps!!!
Happy Holidays!!!!
You should run your own proformas.
LOL, I do run my own pro-forma, but, thanks for the golden advice!!!
Just saying... more than a few realtors have extremely unrealistic proforma rents, under-reported expenses, and the disclaimers everywhere stating that:
"..legal, legal, legal, we are not responsible for the information being accurate(but we try), do your own due diligence, legal, legal, legal, legal..."
basically "we are not accountable disclaimer," CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!!(as it should always be)
buddy, if you are not doing your own pro-formas and underwriting, you will get ripped off very quickly!!!
That reality kind of proves the OP original sentiment, their are some slimy investors/realtors out there, that will absolutely sell you some land locked swamp parcel and be totally OK with it because they did all the legal, legal, legal....let alone, all the other questionable "legal" things that are more ethical grey area than the swamp land example.
Realtors, investors, sellers, and buyers are ALL capable of being goofballs, especially when lots of money is at stake, it's more of human thing, than a realtor thing.
IF any realtors were hurt in the making of this post, I am truly sorry and wish you a happy and successful new year!
Originally posted by @Isaac S.:
Originally posted by @Steve K.:
Originally posted by @Isaac S.:
wow, the level of comprehension from some of the realtor crowd is seriously lacking....
1 seller is the realtor
2 seller/realtor made uneducated offer to sell for under market and then got sellers remorse
3 seller/realtor did not communicate directly and honestly, instead was spineless and indirect and yes, that's sleazy!
There are only two things that make this better....
1 The seller/realtor does not make any blind uneducated random offers to sell, to begin with!!!
2 The seller/realtor instead communicates that he needs a few days to consider the verbal offer, and then does proper comps and either makes an off market deal with the OP(now that he is prepared)or notifies him that he's taking to market.
ALSO...to all the realtors....are realtor ProForma numbers always overstated, understated, or dead on accurate?????? Give me a break with the self-righteousness....salespeople of any product, can tend to be morally flexible, realtors are no different
THE REALITY IS...some people will consider unethical or questionable behavior to be ok, as long as it is not illegal....the replies in this thread imply that a higher percentage of people who think this way, are probably realtors....just sayin
To the realtors that DO get it, thanks for not being goofballs and for always underwriting with accurate expenses, income, and realistic ProFormas/comps!!!
Happy Holidays!!!!
You should run your own proformas.
LOL, I do run my own pro-forma, but, thanks for the golden advice!!!
Just saying... more than a few realtors have extremely unrealistic proforma rents, under-reported expenses, and the disclaimers everywhere stating that:
"..legal, legal, legal, we are not responsible for the information being accurate(but we try), do your own due diligence, legal, legal, legal, legal..."
basically "we are not accountable disclaimer," CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!!(as it should always be)
buddy, if you are not doing your own pro-formas and underwriting, you will get ripped off very quickly!!!
That reality kind of proves the OP original sentiment, their are some slimy investors/realtors out there, that will absolutely sell you some land locked swamp parcel and be totally OK with it because they did all the legal, legal, legal....let alone, all the other questionable "legal" things that are more ethical grey area than the swamp land example.
Realtors, investors, sellers, and buyers are ALL capable of being goofballs, especially when lots of money is at stake, it's more of human thing, than a realtor thing.
IF any realtors were hurt in the making of this post, I am truly sorry and wish you a happy and successful new year!
It's the buyer's duty to do their own due diligence. Just like a deal has to be in writing and have "consideration"/ earnest money to be an accepted offer. Knowing the business and how the buying process works is important for both investors and agents. Many don't. Definitely don't expect the listing agent or seller to run your proforma for you (or write up the contract like OP did, losing control of the deal in the process). They're on the other team.
- Property Manager · Boston, MA · Member since 2014 · 194 posts · 73 votes4y
@Wilson Hunter
Unfortunately there’s a lot of agents acting without morals these days. See if you can sue. Since you both had a meeting of the minds. You have the secretary as witness.
I’m sure that will teach him.
Originally posted by @Steve K.:
Originally posted by @Isaac S.:
Originally posted by @Steve K.:
Originally posted by @Isaac S.:
wow, the level of comprehension from some of the realtor crowd is seriously lacking....
1 seller is the realtor
2 seller/realtor made uneducated offer to sell for under market and then got sellers remorse
3 seller/realtor did not communicate directly and honestly, instead was spineless and indirect and yes, that's sleazy!
There are only two things that make this better....
1 The seller/realtor does not make any blind uneducated random offers to sell, to begin with!!!
2 The seller/realtor instead communicates that he needs a few days to consider the verbal offer, and then does proper comps and either makes an off market deal with the OP(now that he is prepared)or notifies him that he's taking to market.
ALSO...to all the realtors....are realtor ProForma numbers always overstated, understated, or dead on accurate?????? Give me a break with the self-righteousness....salespeople of any product, can tend to be morally flexible, realtors are no different
THE REALITY IS...some people will consider unethical or questionable behavior to be ok, as long as it is not illegal....the replies in this thread imply that a higher percentage of people who think this way, are probably realtors....just sayin
To the realtors that DO get it, thanks for not being goofballs and for always underwriting with accurate expenses, income, and realistic ProFormas/comps!!!
Happy Holidays!!!!
You should run your own proformas.
LOL, I do run my own pro-forma, but, thanks for the golden advice!!!
Just saying... more than a few realtors have extremely unrealistic proforma rents, under-reported expenses, and the disclaimers everywhere stating that:
"..legal, legal, legal, we are not responsible for the information being accurate(but we try), do your own due diligence, legal, legal, legal, legal..."
basically "we are not accountable disclaimer," CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!!(as it should always be)
buddy, if you are not doing your own pro-formas and underwriting, you will get ripped off very quickly!!!
That reality kind of proves the OP original sentiment, their are some slimy investors/realtors out there, that will absolutely sell you some land locked swamp parcel and be totally OK with it because they did all the legal, legal, legal....let alone, all the other questionable "legal" things that are more ethical grey area than the swamp land example.
Realtors, investors, sellers, and buyers are ALL capable of being goofballs, especially when lots of money is at stake, it's more of human thing, than a realtor thing.
IF any realtors were hurt in the making of this post, I am truly sorry and wish you a happy and successful new year!
It's the buyer's duty to do their own due diligence. Just like a deal has to be in writing and have "consideration"/ earnest money to be an accepted offer. Knowing the business and how the buying process works is important for both investors and agents. Many don't. Definitely don't expect the listing agent or seller to run your proforma for you (or write up the contract like OP did, losing control of the deal in the process). They're on the other team.
Well Steve, I can't speak for your experience, but, the majority of multifamily and commercial deals, that I look at, if they have any kind of obvious upside and/or value add component have deal sheets, marketing packages, and/or OM's WITH pro-forma. So I am not sure what your fixation is on telling me and other investors to do their own pro-forma...I agree with that statement...buyers should do their own numbers
It does not make my point any less significant, realtors(like all other humans) make some pretty outrageous claims, and/or small stretches of truth to hype a landlocked swamp parcel(figuratively speaking, sometimes), because the asset needs to be hyped because no one would buy it otherwise...and this can be a time suck from real motivated buyers having to filter out goofy deals. It's always nice to work with realtors that have a real grasp of the market because they can give the seller realistic numbers and control the expectations and then market to the general realistic range of motivated buyers at that time in that market.
The most blatant example of goofy realtor/seller listings, is a realtor being so thirsty and desperate for a listing that they get creative with underwriting for the deal in order to justify a ridiculous asking price, that either they or the seller proposed to get the listing active. Those deals sit for years sometimes because some goofy realtor or seller thinks their underwriting and pro-forma are good and yet they never figure out that in this market if you don't have 10 offers in the first few days, your overpriced.
Anyway, I was not intending to get into a back and forth with you, and I have never done business with you, so I was not directing any of these generalizations at you...if you don't want to put your pro-formas in your listings, don't...I don't care...but, you will be exception, not the rule...since, the rule is to hype the upside, it's nice when some realtors are, at least, realistic with the range of rental comps.
Don't worry buddy, I will still do my own DD/pro forma...and if you are operating within standard operating procedures, you will have some pro forma assertions in your listings, just do us poor old investors a favor and keep the numbers as realistic as possible....if not, it's a free market and I certainly get a laugh out of some of these goofy over priced/hyped listings. Best of luck and thanks for the funny exchange.
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