How much cleaning do you require of guests?
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
The DIY Landlord Book4.7243 Reviews
How much cleaning do you require of guests?
Most Popular Reply
Ryan MoyerBusiness Member
Property Manager · Orlando Kissimmee Davenport Salt Lake City, Park City · Member since 2019 · 996 posts · 1k+ votesI'm not gonna hold back here because these childish complaints are really a pet peeve of mine. I say that as a guest that has been staying in STR's since the 90's as much as I do as a host.
Maybe some of the disconnect is big city condotels vs. full houses in the mountains or the beach. I could maybe understand some of the whining about having to be a grown up adult for 5 minutes at the condotels that are more meant to be direct competitors to a hotel. But at a full house at the beach or something like that, if you're comparing a few minutes to load the dishwasher in this full house that has to be turned over in a few hours to a 150sqft hotel room that doesn't even have dishes, you're being ridiculous.
Most of the people that complain about this stuff are 16 year olds on Tik Tok just hunting for clicks. It's become popular in that circle to whine about it, so it's a great way to get clicks. Seeing full grown adults on an investment forum acting like it's some great burden is frankly kind of sad.
Why should I have to clean when I'm already paying a cleaning fee?
Throwing your dirty towels into a pile on the floor isn't "cleaning". 99% of hosts ask little more than to start the dishwasher and pile up dirty towels, and 99% of that 99% won't actually ding you in any way if you don't do it. Maybe some hosts ask to strip the beds or take out the trash. Plenty reasonable. The nonsense about being asked to vacuum or mow the lawn is reductio ad absurdum. A lame form of discussion where someone references the extreme outlier and creates their argument around it as if it is the norm. "I'm tired of hosts asking me to mow the lawn and re-tar their roof for them!". Please.
I don't have to do my dishes at a hotel
Well, duh. Because you don't get dishes at a hotel. Again, maybe this is a disconnect between tiny NYC condos in the hotel district and your typical vacation rental, but if you rent a 4br Marriott Vacation house in Hawaii you are expected to do your dishes. If you rent a condo in Aspen through Whyndam they ask you to do your dishes. If you stay in a timeshare they ask you to do your dishes. It's been this way for 30 years.
I got a good chuckle out of someone above acting shocked about having to take the trash to the dump 6 miles away, while at the same time mentioning that the checkout list is getting harder, not easier. I bet he'd be shocked to know that for 20 years prior to Airbnb that was actually the standard, rather than the outlier exception it is now. I've been staying in cabins in Tennessee, NC, and Georgia since the 90's and it was always expected that you'd take your trash with you when you leave. Often much further than 6 miles (I remember driving all the way home with it a few times because we couldn't find anywhere to take it. There just wasn't the infrastructure in a lot of these vacation destinations back then like there is now. Now, in 99% of cases, you don't have to do that anymore.
If anything the checkout list has gotten easier and easier (not harder and harder) to the point where it's almost nothing now in most cases.
Renting a house is just different than renting a little hotel room. Maybe some people just aren't cut out to be trusted with other people's property. If you want to check into a place and act like a toddler so some big corporation's $7/hr staff can fix your disaster, then go for it. If you want to be an adult and stay in a nice place with a kitchen, private pool, and room for 4 families, then do that.
And yea, if you're family is getting into a huge fight because you had to load a dishwasher than that's definitely a "you" problem. Every day all around the world millions of people manage to successfully load a dishwasher without breaking up their family. Crazy, I know.
Cosmic Vacations4.9175 Reviews
68 Replies
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes4y
Quote from @Account Closed:
It's your place and you can do what you want. But, you have a disconnect in your business and are not service oriented.Quote from @Michael Baum:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I have the guests load and run the dishwasher, take all their trash out to the cans and put all the used towels in the nearest tub.
Nothing else. Never had a single complaint and 90% do it right.
I have had folks miss a trash can under a bathroom sink or forget to start the dishwasher, but it is pretty rare.
Most people, me included, feel that I am staying in someones home so i do the extra stuff that is asked. No big.
But do you charge me money when I am staying in your home as a guest? We've stayed at STRs all over the country and generally we will do the simple things like pack our stuff, be out on time and not steal anything.
My wife puts the coffee mugs in the sink and I take our things to the car. I get to do enough chores at home, I don't expect to do them on vacation and pay for the privilege of cleaning your house. ;-)The cleaning fee you charged me when I booked the place covers the cleaning, right?
Well, then you don't get to stay at our place! The things I ask take 10 minutes to do. They are simple things that all our guests have been happy to do.
I am sticking with how we do things. All 5 star reviews says I am doing it right.
I think you leave any place you stay a complete mess because you are on vacation. Being on vacation doesn't negate personal responsibility.
Why would I pay for cleaning and still have to clean? It's actually insulting.
We've stayed at innumerable hotels and I can't think of a single time I was asked to take the garbage out or to do the dishes or anything like that. It's an absurd thought.
And most importantly, you don't value my time. You assume I will have time to do your wishes and be pleased to do that. Well, you're not my dad, I don't work for you and I paid you for a service you refuse to provide by trying to make me do it for you. It's not yours to decide what I do with my time.
By the way, I take this stance because it caused friction at a family reunion Christmas at an expensive & very nice STR Lodge in Ashville a couple of seasons ago. It was the "simple" things you insist your employees, I mean "guests" were to do.
There were actual inconveniences and arguments over when and how to do the stated list. It was memorable, but not in the way the Host wanted and the review reflected that. No return visits to that one.
That's a pretty good argument, really. It's "Asheville", not Ashville. :) But I can't say I disagree with your argument. I think the crux of it is "what are the guests being asked to do"? Staying in a short term rental home is not the same thing as staying in a hotel, and no one should think it's the same thing. When you stay in a hotel you're probably occupying less than 200 square feet of space with a single bathroom, the hotel has a full-time cleaning and service staff and there are virtually no food facilities to speak of - no dishwasher, refrigerator, stove, oven or microwave. The kind of mess you can make at a hotel without being actively destructive is pretty limited because A) you have no space and B) you have no food preparation opportunities. So I don't think it's unreasonable to request a minimum of consideration from guests. On the other hand, it's unreasonable to expect a guest that's paying for a cleaning service to clean your house for you so the cleaner doesn't have anything to do.
Skyline Properties - 4yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
I don't see loading and running the dishwasher, placing towels in a tub and taking out the trash as cleaning. I don't ask them to vacuum, strip the beds, do laundry, scrub the toilets or anything like that. That is cleaning.
I don't have any kind of disconnect at all. At least a few hundred guests don't think so at all
Hotels aren't vacation homes. Like @JD Martin said.
It's not that I don't value your time. I just ask for these things to be done. They are small and easy to do on the way out.
I am sorry your family had issues with a list. Explains a lot though.
EDIT - Running the dishwasher is important as it take a couple of hours to finish and laundry is done on site.
- Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ and Rehoboth Beach DE · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
I ask them to wash their dirty dishes and take out the trash. That's it.
And no, that isn't considered "cleaning a house".
If guests don't like my list which I do not deem excessive but rather necessary for the operation of my business, I don't need them as guest. If my occupancy ever drops below 85% and I no longer get continuous 5 star reviews, at that point in time I will do a sanity check and see if I am in a disconnect with my guests and make adjustments as necessary, until then business as usual.
- 4yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Although I don't ask for much, I think that in the STR business there are expectations on both sides. This is not a hotel business but rather a small business run by 'Mom & Pops' usually. Plus they all have kitchens.
Most guests do the little things to ensure that the places are left extra clean because I think they can relate to 'what if I had to clean this myself'?
I fully expect my places to be left 'almost ' as clean as when the guest arrived. Any major cleaning I have to do will earn them fewer stars and they know it...
- Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes4yComing at this post as a guest who has rented a dozen AirBnbs during the past year, I will say that my wife and I are almost done with AirBnb primarily because the increasing requirements of hosts regarding cleaning. Aside from loading the dishwasher, why are we expected to strip the beds and gather all the laundry and take the garbage out and sweep the floors? That's what we're paying for with the cleaning charges. And this is my FAVORITE story. We stayed in a cabin in Montana and were required to haul the garbage in our car to a transfer dump site located 6 miles away!
- 4yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Matthew McNeil:
Coming at this post as a guest who has rented a dozen AirBnbs during the past year, I will say that my wife and I are almost done with AirBnb primarily because the increasing requirements of hosts regarding cleaning. Aside from loading the dishwasher, why are we expected to strip the beds and gather all the laundry and take the garbage out and sweep the floors? That's what we're paying for with the cleaning charges. And this is my FAVORITE story. We stayed in a cabin in Montana and were required to haul the garbage in our car to a transfer dump site located 6 miles away!Well sweeping the floors, and driving to the dump shouldn't be on the list, but the rest are fair. I mean are you seriously going to leave dirty dishes in the sink? What if the hosts are like us and don't show up until Monday (after a Sunday am checkout)?
I guess maybe some people just have to be waited on and shouldn't stay at STRs......?
- Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes4y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @Matthew McNeil:
Coming at this post as a guest who has rented a dozen AirBnbs during the past year, I will say that my wife and I are almost done with AirBnb primarily because the increasing requirements of hosts regarding cleaning. Aside from loading the dishwasher, why are we expected to strip the beds and gather all the laundry and take the garbage out and sweep the floors? That's what we're paying for with the cleaning charges. And this is my FAVORITE story. We stayed in a cabin in Montana and were required to haul the garbage in our car to a transfer dump site located 6 miles away!Well sweeping the floors, and driving to the dump shouldn't be on the list, but the rest are fair. I mean are you seriously going to leave dirty dishes in the sink? What if the hosts are like us and don't show up until Monday (after a Sunday am checkout)?
I guess maybe some people just have to be waited on and shouldn't stay at STRs......?
Not necessary to be condescending. We're a BP family trying to support one another. The point I was making is that I'm seeing the cleaning requirements increase and the sweeping and hauling garbage in our car highlights some unrealistic expectations that more and more hosts are requiring. Cheers!
- Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 276 posts · 235 votes4y
People upset about loading their own dirty dishes into a dishwasher and pressing start before they leave is bizarre to me. Trash being taken out prevents it from stinking up the property too much before cleaners arrive (haven’t figured out yet why most people choose to cook bacon for breakfast on the same morning they check out). Most of my cleans are turns. When the cleaner arrives to a sink full of dirty dishes, it really puts her behind.
If you get that wound up about not being treated like a hotel guest, either book a hotel or message the host before you book and ask what their checkout procedure is.
- 4yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Matthew McNeil:
No offense meant...
- 4yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votesOn word on Montana. Bears.
Quote from @Matthew McNeil:
Coming at this post as a guest who has rented a dozen AirBnbs during the past year, I will say that my wife and I are almost done with AirBnb primarily because the increasing requirements of hosts regarding cleaning. Aside from loading the dishwasher, why are we expected to strip the beds and gather all the laundry and take the garbage out and sweep the floors? That's what we're paying for with the cleaning charges. And this is my FAVORITE story. We stayed in a cabin in Montana and were required to haul the garbage in our car to a transfer dump site located 6 miles away! - 4yDave StokleyBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 705 posts · 799 votes
So as STRs evolved people started complaining that they "became too commercialized" but now they're like "be more like big hotels!" LOL.
Here are a few ideas:
1. Booking platforms should have a place in the listing for hosts to list expectations, so that if you're so damn lazy you can't load a dishwasher you can filter for that (or at least know up front).
2. Maybe hosts should offer different cleaning tiers: basic clean is $100 but you're expected to do x, y, and z before you leave, or the comprehensive clean is $200 and you don't have to do anything.
3. Maybe hosts should just take a big cleaning deposit, bill cleaning at an hourly rate, and refund whatever amount doesn't get used. This is probably more admin work than I'd be willing to do though.
- Investor · Canoga Park, CA · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 50 votes4y
I put in the check out instructions that they should straighten up, leave any dirty towels on the floor and if they use the shower robe, put it on the floor. I also say you do not need to make the bed as we will be changing sheets. I also request that even though I ask them to clean up, if they leave a dirty dish or coffee cup on the counter, it's not a big deal. I'm not able to get a cleaner for a low price, so I don't want them to feel like they have to clean too much. Most guests are respectful and occasionally I have to give my cleaner a few extra bucks if it's extra dirty.
- 4yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Interesting ideas @Dave Stokley. Number 2 wouldn't work I think. You can bet that any guest trying to get out will do the absolute worst job.
The deposit idea is interesting as it makes them have skin in the game to keep it up.
- Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes4y
Quote from @JD Martin:
That's a pretty good argument, really. It's "Asheville", not Ashville. :) But I can't say I disagree with your argument. I think the crux of it is "what are the guests being asked to do"?Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I have the guests load and run the dishwasher, take all their trash out to the cans and put all the used towels in the nearest tub.
Your comment: "That's a pretty good argument, really. It's "Asheville", not Ashville. :) But I can't say I disagree with your argument."
Thanks for the correction on "Asheville", I sometimes get Tuktoyaktuk wrong too. I hate when that happens. ;-) - 4yRyan MoyerBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Orlando Kissimmee Davenport Salt Lake City, Park City · Member since 2019 · 996 posts · 1k+ votes
I'm not gonna hold back here because these childish complaints are really a pet peeve of mine. I say that as a guest that has been staying in STR's since the 90's as much as I do as a host.
Maybe some of the disconnect is big city condotels vs. full houses in the mountains or the beach. I could maybe understand some of the whining about having to be a grown up adult for 5 minutes at the condotels that are more meant to be direct competitors to a hotel. But at a full house at the beach or something like that, if you're comparing a few minutes to load the dishwasher in this full house that has to be turned over in a few hours to a 150sqft hotel room that doesn't even have dishes, you're being ridiculous.
Most of the people that complain about this stuff are 16 year olds on Tik Tok just hunting for clicks. It's become popular in that circle to whine about it, so it's a great way to get clicks. Seeing full grown adults on an investment forum acting like it's some great burden is frankly kind of sad.
Why should I have to clean when I'm already paying a cleaning fee?
Throwing your dirty towels into a pile on the floor isn't "cleaning". 99% of hosts ask little more than to start the dishwasher and pile up dirty towels, and 99% of that 99% won't actually ding you in any way if you don't do it. Maybe some hosts ask to strip the beds or take out the trash. Plenty reasonable. The nonsense about being asked to vacuum or mow the lawn is reductio ad absurdum. A lame form of discussion where someone references the extreme outlier and creates their argument around it as if it is the norm. "I'm tired of hosts asking me to mow the lawn and re-tar their roof for them!". Please.
I don't have to do my dishes at a hotel
Well, duh. Because you don't get dishes at a hotel. Again, maybe this is a disconnect between tiny NYC condos in the hotel district and your typical vacation rental, but if you rent a 4br Marriott Vacation house in Hawaii you are expected to do your dishes. If you rent a condo in Aspen through Whyndam they ask you to do your dishes. If you stay in a timeshare they ask you to do your dishes. It's been this way for 30 years.
I got a good chuckle out of someone above acting shocked about having to take the trash to the dump 6 miles away, while at the same time mentioning that the checkout list is getting harder, not easier. I bet he'd be shocked to know that for 20 years prior to Airbnb that was actually the standard, rather than the outlier exception it is now. I've been staying in cabins in Tennessee, NC, and Georgia since the 90's and it was always expected that you'd take your trash with you when you leave. Often much further than 6 miles (I remember driving all the way home with it a few times because we couldn't find anywhere to take it. There just wasn't the infrastructure in a lot of these vacation destinations back then like there is now. Now, in 99% of cases, you don't have to do that anymore.
If anything the checkout list has gotten easier and easier (not harder and harder) to the point where it's almost nothing now in most cases.
Renting a house is just different than renting a little hotel room. Maybe some people just aren't cut out to be trusted with other people's property. If you want to check into a place and act like a toddler so some big corporation's $7/hr staff can fix your disaster, then go for it. If you want to be an adult and stay in a nice place with a kitchen, private pool, and room for 4 families, then do that.
And yea, if you're family is getting into a huge fight because you had to load a dishwasher than that's definitely a "you" problem. Every day all around the world millions of people manage to successfully load a dishwasher without breaking up their family. Crazy, I know.
Cosmic Vacations4.9175 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ and Rehoboth Beach DE · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
@Ryan Moyer Right on.
Where I take my family as a guest in Ocean City MD, it's a 1.2 mil oceanfront condo where we're expected to wash our dishes and take out trash. In addition, it's traditional in this market (that was long established before Airbnb and VRBO) that guests must bring their own sheets, towels, dish soap, TP, paper towels, salt and pepper, etc. I have a new STR farther north in DE and don't require guests bring all that, but it's still probably required in half the places for rent at the DE and MD beaches.
- 4yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
@Ryan Moyer Great post, my man! Completely agree.....I think another part of it is the 'entitlement syndrome' that pervades our country today. "I want a whole house, for the price of a lousy hotel room, and I want to leave my stuff laying around when I leave for the maids to clean"
- 4yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
@Lauren Kormylo, that is interesting! We provide each and every thing on that list and then some! About 40 spices in the cupboard along with grilling seasoning etc.
- Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ and Rehoboth Beach DE · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
Quote from @Michael Baum:
@Lauren Kormylo, that is interesting! We provide each and every thing on that list and then some! About 40 spices in the cupboard along with grilling seasoning etc.
It would sure make packing easier if I didn't have to bring all that on vacation! But it sure is easier for hosts if they don't have to supply all that or wash linens.
I guess I will be the lone hold out. I do not require my guests to do any cleaning at all. If it only takes the guests 10 minutes to load and run the dishwasher it only takes my cleaner 8 minutes to do it. I request that they do NOT make the bed or put towels on the racks as I want to make sure that all items used are laundered. We take out the trash, we vacuum, we mop, we clean the toilet, we spray door knobs and light switches, we clean the countertops, showers, well everything. I expect my guests to relax and enjoy their stay. To my surprise and gratitude probably 80% plus actually clean up, do the dishes, etc. Probably 50% also strip the beds for us. I have actually had more problems with guests doing too much, like washing towels for me only to find the new red Christmas kitchen hand towel in with the white bath towels. Lesson learned.
I think you have the right to require your guests to do cleaning if you notify them before they rent. If it only shows up after you arrive I don't think it is ethical. Most young folks clean up but a few do almost nothing, the guys who fish are usually ok, but they are clearly not used to cleaning a kitchen and it takes an extra half hour to clean up the grease from frying fish and to get the fish smell out.
Overall I am pleased and grateful at my guests who clean up after them selves, but I don't require it.
It is a different story if I find peanut butter and jelly in the carpet or worse pet urine or crap in the house. I ding those folks on cleanliness on the review, but those are really rare, I think it happened twice this year out of 4 houses. While I get irritated at the ones who let their pets on the bed, again as I allow pets in most of my places it is part of the cost of doing business.
I have been doing STRs for only 6 years, and have been very blessed to have the vast majority of my guests be excellent, and to be honest my rentals are not very fancy, they are usually small, old, cute, and extremely clean. I give my personal cell phone number in my welcome message, and again I have very few problems.
- 3yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Well, I don't think it is unethical to ask someone to load and run the dishwasher,
- Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes3y@Jerry W.: I'm with you.
Quote from @Jerry W.:
I guess I will be the lone hold out. I do not require my guests to do any cleaning at all. If it only takes the guests 10 minutes to load and run the dishwasher it only takes my cleaner 8 minutes to do it. I request that they do NOT make the bed or put towels on the racks as I want to make sure that all items used are laundered. We take out the trash, we vacuum, we mop, we clean the toilet, we spray door knobs and light switches, we clean the countertops, showers, well everything. I expect my guests to relax and enjoy their stay. To my surprise and gratitude probably 80% plus actually clean up, do the dishes, etc. Probably 50% also strip the beds for us. I have actually had more problems with guests doing too much, like washing towels for me only to find the new red Christmas kitchen hand towel in with the white bath towels. Lesson learned.
I think you have the right to require your guests to do cleaning if you notify them before they rent. If it only shows up after you arrive I don't think it is ethical. Most young folks clean up but a few do almost nothing, the guys who fish are usually ok, but they are clearly not used to cleaning a kitchen and it takes an extra half hour to clean up the grease from frying fish and to get the fish smell out.
Overall I am pleased and grateful at my guests who clean up after them selves, but I don't require it.
It is a different story if I find peanut butter and jelly in the carpet or worse pet urine or crap in the house. I ding those folks on cleanliness on the review, but those are really rare, I think it happened twice this year out of 4 houses. While I get irritated at the ones who let their pets on the bed, again as I allow pets in most of my places it is part of the cost of doing business.
I have been doing STRs for only 6 years, and have been very blessed to have the vast majority of my guests be excellent, and to be honest my rentals are not very fancy, they are usually small, old, cute, and extremely clean. I give my personal cell phone number in my welcome message, and again I have very few problems.
I'd rather have my cleaner do the job the right way, not bother the guests with nickle and dime things and not assume their time is something I can dictate by having them load a disher etc. It seems totally out of place. - 3yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Well the reason I have for them to load and run the dishwasher is to help my cleaners save time. A regular dishwasher run is about 2 hours. On a back to back, that time is precious. What takes them 10 minutes saves the cleaners a ton.
Either way, what works for you is what works for you. Asking these things works for us.