Tricky question about HELOCS and retirement account loans

Tricky question about HELOCS and retirement account loans

Member since 2022 · 8 posts · 4 votes

This is more of a financial advice question in order to prepare for the next deal. (We only have one STR and have had it for two years.) My husband and I each have retirement accounts through work, plus his 457 and my 403b. We're both 47, both with W-2s. We are closing on a HELOC on our primary home this week. Any advice on if we should use it to pay off our loans against two of our retirement accounts (that we took out for the downpayment on the first STR) in order to lower the monthly bills or if we can/should cash out one or two of our retirement accounts (457 and/or 403b) and pay off the loans?

We have been able to pay the loans back for two years so far and have three years left, but have one kid in college and two more shortly behind. We’re trying to figure out options and taxes/penalties/etc. Also, if we cash out the 457 and/or 403b and have taxes taken out, could those taxes be returned when we file our returns? Because of material participation (I self-manage)/bonus depreciation/cost seg, we’ve been able to get all of our taxes back both years so far.

We cannot keep going the way we have for two years, so that's not an option. The HELOC was the original plan, but it was going to take too long to close so we did this instead.

My 403b has a value of roughly 85k and has a remaining loan balance of about 22k… about $700 per month

My husband’s 457 has a value of roughly 180k and has a remaining loan balance of about 30k… about $850 per month

Since the HELOC is a variable rate, I'm hesitant to use a large amount from that. It starts at 8% rate. Debt payment starts at $14 per month for each $1,000 borrowed.

Also, I’m eligible to retire at 53 in Texas and will to work somewhere else.

Any advice would be great! I’m not even sure where to start. Thank you!

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Collin HaysBusiness Member
Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y

This is a question for your CPA.  

But from personal experience, your penalties and taxes on early withdrawing from any IRA or 401K can total from 35 to up to 50 percent. I did it once.

You are going to pay a 10 percent penalty right off the top.  You will then pay ordinary income tax on the withdrawal amount that is commensurate with your income tax bracket.  But your withdrawal is going to drive up your income tax bracket, because all of that withdrawal is considered income.

I closed out my 401K of $480K, paid all taxes and penalties, and was left with around $300K.  I bought two cabins with it that have been producing $75 to 85K a year since 2013, so it was worth it.

That doesn't sound like the situation that you are in.  Call your CPA and get solid advice.

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  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y

    This is a question for your CPA.  

    But from personal experience, your penalties and taxes on early withdrawing from any IRA or 401K can total from 35 to up to 50 percent. I did it once.

    You are going to pay a 10 percent penalty right off the top.  You will then pay ordinary income tax on the withdrawal amount that is commensurate with your income tax bracket.  But your withdrawal is going to drive up your income tax bracket, because all of that withdrawal is considered income.

    I closed out my 401K of $480K, paid all taxes and penalties, and was left with around $300K.  I bought two cabins with it that have been producing $75 to 85K a year since 2013, so it was worth it.

    That doesn't sound like the situation that you are in.  Call your CPA and get solid advice.

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

    Variable rates are dangerous 

  • Rick GarridoPro Member
    Investor · Long Beach, Ca. · Member since 2022 · 18 posts · 10 votes
    2y

    I can't tell by the numbers but would definitely recommend a CPA. As a separate option, why don't you look into moving your retirement account(s) into a self directed IRA account (SDIRA) ? You can then use it to pay some/all of your loan on the STR since it's not your primary home. I invest with my SDIRA and while it's a bit more hoops you jump through (you have to be arms length away from the transactions, can't use "disqualified" parties etc.) it's worthwhile if you're going to put it into real estate. Speak to your CPA about this and also ask them about "converting" the funds to after tax funds so you can plan ahead of the conversions.

    Good luck!

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y

    Hey @Melissa Allen, everyone here said it well. Get a CPA to get that advice.

    I highly suggest you don't cash out the retirement. It is fraught with pitfalls that can really make it hard. I was able to take a loan on my 401k to help pay down our house, but I was recently fully disabled so there wasn't any penalties for us.

    Get a good CPA and get started.

    Plus you could always wait a bit and not move on any more properties until you get all this under control.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    2y

    I would not cash out a retirement account.

    I would take your STR income and use the profits to pay down the money you borrowed for the STR downpayment.

    Leverage low interest Stafford loans for college.

  • Basit SiddiqiBusiness Member
    Accountant · New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 8k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    Retirement distributions are considered taxable income(Federal and state).
    You mentioned self-managing the rental properties so it may be that the income will offset against the rental loss.
    However, you will still be subject to the 10% penalty.

    Have a conversation with your CPA and ask them to draw you up a draft of several different situations and see if that is something you want to move forward with.

  • Andrew SteffensBusiness Member
    Tampa, FL · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    +1 for consulting your CPA for this type of question.

  • Bill HamptonBusiness Member
    Accredited Investment Fiduciary, AIF®, Financial Planner, Tax Strategist, Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 977 votes
    2y

    @Melissa Allen

    Do not cash out Retirement accounts. 

    I recommend finding an accountant/financial planner who specializes in real estate taxation and tax planning. You may want to consider working with your accountant remotely to expand your options. Ask your accountant/financial planner to run different scenarios in their software and discuss your options. 

    I would also recommend looking for a accountant willing to work with you throughout the year. You want an accountant who can help you strategize and who is responsive when you want to know the consequences of the financial decisions you are making throughout the year.

    Good luck.

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