Programmable thermostats = financial suicide

Short-Term & Vacation Rental Discussions
1yFollow

Programmable thermostats = financial suicide

Collin HaysBusiness Member
Property Manager 路 Gatlinburg, TN 路 Member since 2020 路 3k+ posts 路 4k+ votes

We are currently dealing with two homeowners that insist on saving a few dollars on utilities by putting upper and lower limits on the thermostat. They are getting blistered with poor reviews, and future guests are calling in to cancel because of the reviews.  Penny wise, pound foolish.

Just. Don't.  

[email protected]806-672-7102
SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
WebsiteView Page
10Reply
72 views

Most Popular Reply

JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire 路 Northeast, TN 路 Member since 2015 路 10k+ posts 路 16k+ votes
1y

I think it really depends on your market, and how you set up the thermostats. With my house in Florida, we absolutely have thermostats that we can lock out (remotely) or set limits on, because you can easily freeze up a unit by setting the AC temperature too low. I also don't want tenants to turn the air up so high that it doesn't come on at all, not good for a hot, humid climate. So we have the AC limits set at 72 at the bottom and 79 at the top. If you have a crappy system that doesn't run well, or the registers in the house aren't balanced well, that might be an issue. In our house, 72 will freeze you solid downstairs and most of our guests end up raising the thermostat to 74-75 (which is what we tell our guests and recommend). In the winter, we set the heat upper limit to 79 as well though this is rarely an issue. 

I wouldn't use programmable ones that can lock out that can't be controlled remotely, because I can override anything if the situation calls for it. We advertise our temperature limits for clarity and have never had a complaint. We also advertise the heated temperature of the pool to avoid complaints, because some people think a heated pool will be like a hot tub. 

Most important is clarity up front, before anyone books, and setting the stage so that everyone knows the situation and expectations. And staying in your unit yourself, in the hottest and coldest months, at least once or twice to see what the effect is of the thermostat settings. 

Podcast Guest on Show #243
Skyline Properties
View Page
7Reply
See this reply in the discussion

27 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor 路 Greer, SC 路 Member since 2014 路 13k+ posts 路 17k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Collin Hays:

    We are currently dealing with two homeowners that insist on saving a few dollars on utilities by putting upper and lower limits on the thermostat. They are getting blistered with poor reviews, and future guests are calling in to cancel because of the reviews.  Penny wise, pound foolish.

    Just. Don't.  


     You can absolutely do it, just be reasonable in your settings.

    I have never had a review about my Thermostat setpoints and I can save energy remotely when no one is there.

    5Reply
    • Trent Reeve
      Atlanta 路 Member since 2022 路 708 posts 路 639 votes
      1y
      Quote from @John Underwood:
      Quote from @Collin Hays:

      We are currently dealing with two homeowners that insist on saving a few dollars on utilities by putting upper and lower limits on the thermostat. They are getting blistered with poor reviews, and future guests are calling in to cancel because of the reviews.  Penny wise, pound foolish.

      Just. Don't.  


       You can absolutely do it, just be reasonable in your settings.

      I have never had a review about my Thermostat setpoints and I can save energy remotely when no one is there.


       this. i have these in 3 properties and never had an issue. maybe his limits are too small.

      2Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant 路 San Diego / Phoenix 路 Member since 2021 路 12k+ posts 路 15k+ votes
    1y

    Another great post Collin! Words of wisdom. I always thought it was like 'stepping over dollars to pick up pennies' as they say.....

    2Reply
  • Jeff Langley
    Member since 2021 路 167 posts 路 141 votes
    1y

    I have parameters and never had complaints. Just be reasonable. 

    Unreasonable is setting a thermostat to 80 in a remote location during winter that eats propane 24/7. Unnecessary and only took one occurrence. 

    5Reply
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire 路 Northeast, TN 路 Member since 2015 路 10k+ posts 路 16k+ votes
    1y

    I think it really depends on your market, and how you set up the thermostats. With my house in Florida, we absolutely have thermostats that we can lock out (remotely) or set limits on, because you can easily freeze up a unit by setting the AC temperature too low. I also don't want tenants to turn the air up so high that it doesn't come on at all, not good for a hot, humid climate. So we have the AC limits set at 72 at the bottom and 79 at the top. If you have a crappy system that doesn't run well, or the registers in the house aren't balanced well, that might be an issue. In our house, 72 will freeze you solid downstairs and most of our guests end up raising the thermostat to 74-75 (which is what we tell our guests and recommend). In the winter, we set the heat upper limit to 79 as well though this is rarely an issue. 

    I wouldn't use programmable ones that can lock out that can't be controlled remotely, because I can override anything if the situation calls for it. We advertise our temperature limits for clarity and have never had a complaint. We also advertise the heated temperature of the pool to avoid complaints, because some people think a heated pool will be like a hot tub. 

    Most important is clarity up front, before anyone books, and setting the stage so that everyone knows the situation and expectations. And staying in your unit yourself, in the hottest and coldest months, at least once or twice to see what the effect is of the thermostat settings. 

    Podcast Guest on Show #243
    Skyline Properties
    View Page
    7Reply
  • Jeremy Jareckyj
    Real Estate Agent 路 Salt Lake City, UT 路 Member since 2020 路 490 posts 路 205 votes
    1y

    if the limits are TOO restrictive then yes I would expand them. 

    If a guest ever has an issue with the limits I just remove them for that guest. I do ask  them to not go too crazy though and put it blistering cold or scorching hot. 

    I have had many instances where people are running the AC in the middle of winter on a 45 degree day so the limits are a big deal for me as a host

    3Reply
    • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
      Contractor/Investor/Consultant 路 San Diego / Phoenix 路 Member since 2021 路 12k+ posts 路 15k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Jeremy Jareckyj:

      if the limits are TOO restrictive then yes I would expand them. 

      If a guest ever has an issue with the limits I just remove them for that guest. I do ask  them to not go too crazy though and put it blistering cold or scorching hot. 

      I have had many instances where people are running the AC in the middle of winter on a 45 degree day so the limits are a big deal for me as a host


       Lol, I have had guests that would run the AC (or heat) with the windows wide open!!!! WTF.....?

      1Reply
    • Mike GrudzienPro Member
      Lender 路 Eugene, OR 路 Member since 2019 路 2k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
      Quote from @Jeremy Jareckyj:

      if the limits are TOO restrictive then yes I would expand them. 

      If a guest ever has an issue with the limits I just remove them for that guest. I do ask  them to not go too crazy though and put it blistering cold or scorching hot. 

      I have had many instances where people are running the AC in the middle of winter on a 45 degree day so the limits are a big deal for me as a host


       Lol, I have had guests that would run the AC (or heat) with the windows wide open!!!! WTF.....?


       I concur with Bruce.  Guests running AC with windows open is the only thermostat issue we've ever had.

      2Reply
    • Patricia Andriolo-Bull
      Member since 2022 路 527 posts 路 413 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
      Quote from @Jeremy Jareckyj:

      if the limits are TOO restrictive then yes I would expand them. 

      If a guest ever has an issue with the limits I just remove them for that guest. I do ask  them to not go too crazy though and put it blistering cold or scorching hot. 

      I have had many instances where people are running the AC in the middle of winter on a 45 degree day so the limits are a big deal for me as a host


       Lol, I have had guests that would run the AC (or heat) with the windows wide open!!!! WTF.....?


       I see this all the time.  I live in the middle of short term renters who consistently leave sliding doors open along with the AC.  

      On a separate note, I have to wonder if something else is going on here.  My properties are in SWFL.  I do request not to set the thermostat below 69 (which I find more than reasonable) after having an AC freeze up on me.  My AC guys recommended 71.  I think most guests are reasonable so I wonder, is this host constantly going in and changing the temperature on them, getting angry with them or setting unrealistic upper and lower limits?  

      1Reply
  • Andrew SteffensBusiness Member
    Tampa, FL 路 Member since 2022 路 3k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    1y

    We only put limits of 66-68 in FL, people walk in, drop it to 50 degrees thinking it will cool the unit quicker and end up freezing the unit.  I have had to lecture some owners who set the AC limit to seemingly reasonable 72-74 but have gotten us complaints.

    [email protected]813-563-0877
    Vacation Rentals of Florida53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
    • James Wise
      Real Estate Broker 路 Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH 路 Member since 2013 路 30k+ posts 路 20k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Andrew Steffens:

      We only put limits of 66-68 in FL, people walk in, drop it to 50 degrees thinking it will cool the unit quicker and end up freezing the unit.  I have had to lecture some owners who set the AC limit to seemingly reasonable 72-74 but have gotten us complaints.


       72-74 is hot as hell. That owner should be shot.

      1Reply
    • David Dachtera
      Rental Property Investor 路 Rockford, IL 路 Member since 2014 路 4k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Andrew Steffens:

      We only put limits of 66-68 in FL, people walk in, drop it to 50 degrees thinking it will cool the unit quicker and end up freezing the unit.  I have had to lecture some owners who set the AC limit to seemingly reasonable 72-74 but have gotten us complaints.


       Guests and owners need to understand that a thermostat is a switch, not a throttle.

      1Reply
  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    OP
    Property Manager 路 Gatlinburg, TN 路 Member since 2020 路 3k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
    1y

    I personally own 5 cabins, all with the set-your-own temp.  Thousands of nights rented, never a weird electric or propane bill.  

    We did have a guest leave a water hose on - that was good for 30,000 gallons into the river.  Helped the levels at Douglas Lake though.  馃槀

    [email protected]806-672-7102
    SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    2Reply
    • JD MartinBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Rock Star Extraordinaire 路 Northeast, TN 路 Member since 2015 路 10k+ posts 路 16k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Collin Hays:

      I personally own 5 cabins, all with the set-your-own temp.  Thousands of nights rented, never a weird electric or propane bill.  

      We did have a guest leave a water hose on - that was good for 30,000 gallons into the river.  Helped the levels at Douglas Lake though.  馃槀


       It just doesn't get that hot around here, which is why it hasn't been an issue for you. Some years - not as many lately, but - I rarely turn the AC on and have to crank it up to keep from freezing my *** off. Florida in the summer is an oven and you'd have people putting the AC down to 60 if you let them. 

      Podcast Guest on Show #243
      Skyline Properties
      View Page
      0Reply
  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 8k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
    1y

    We have a simple WiFi thermostat (Emerson Sensi) but it gives me alerts when things are out of spec.

    Like humidity. If you see the thermostat stays 65 degrees but humidity is 80% inside. You know they have the windows open. N. Idaho doesn't see super high humidity. Usually in the 30's but combine with AC running. Yikes.

    Other than that, we don't cap any settings and so far so good. I do look at the settings a few times a day and if I feel they are out of whack, I will change it on the fly.

    1Reply
    • Collin HaysBusiness Member
      OP
      Property Manager 路 Gatlinburg, TN 路 Member since 2020 路 3k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Michael Baum:

      We have a simple WiFi thermostat (Emerson Sensi) but it gives me alerts when things are out of spec.

      Like humidity. If you see the thermostat stays 65 degrees but humidity is 80% inside. You know they have the windows open. N. Idaho doesn't see super high humidity. Usually in the 30's but combine with AC running. Yikes.

      Other than that, we don't cap any settings and so far so good. I do look at the settings a few times a day and if I feel they are out of whack, I will change it on the fly.

      You look a few times a day?

      We need to come up with a hobby for you.  馃ぃ
      [email protected]806-672-7102
      SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
      WebsiteView Page
      1Reply
    • Michael BaumPro Member
      Olympia, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 8k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Collin Hays:
      Quote from @Michael Baum:

      We have a simple WiFi thermostat (Emerson Sensi) but it gives me alerts when things are out of spec.

      Like humidity. If you see the thermostat stays 65 degrees but humidity is 80% inside. You know they have the windows open. N. Idaho doesn't see super high humidity. Usually in the 30's but combine with AC running. Yikes.

      Other than that, we don't cap any settings and so far so good. I do look at the settings a few times a day and if I feel they are out of whack, I will change it on the fly.

      You look a few times a day?

      We need to come up with a hobby for you.  馃ぃ
      Hehe! Well it only takes 15 seconds and it gives me an idea of how things are going there plus what to expect when cleanup comes. I find that folks who set the thermostat at 60 or 80 are going to be trouble in other areas.
      1Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor 路 Poway, CA 路 Member since 2015 路 7k+ posts 路 8k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Collin Hays:

    We are currently dealing with two homeowners that insist on saving a few dollars on utilities by putting upper and lower limits on the thermostat. They are getting blistered with poor reviews, and future guests are calling in to cancel because of the reviews.  Penny wise, pound foolish.

    Just. Don't.  


     I could not disagree with this post more:

    - not setting a minimum could freeze the AC resulting is large repair bill

    - tenants can set ac low just to run up the electric bill or set the heat to run up the gas bill.

    - humidity can be an issue.  It is important for the HVAC to control humidity. 

    The important thing is to set the limits at appropriate limits.   If you are setting the limits too restrictive, this is not smart.  But appropriate limits is smart.   Not setting any limits is not smart and can be costly.  A frozen AC can be costly.  Intentionally wasteful utilities can be costly.  

    I have limits set on all of our STR HVAC systems.



    1Reply
    • Sunil Ghosal
      Member since 2023 路 39 posts 路 13 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Dan H.:
      Quote from @Collin Hays:

      We are currently dealing with two homeowners that insist on saving a few dollars on utilities by putting upper and lower limits on the thermostat. They are getting blistered with poor reviews, and future guests are calling in to cancel because of the reviews.  Penny wise, pound foolish.

      Just. Don't.  


       I could not disagree with this post more:

      - not setting a minimum could freeze the AC resulting is large repair bill

      - tenants can set ac low just to run up the electric bill or set the heat to run up the gas bill.

      - humidity can be an issue.  It is important for the HVAC to control humidity. 

      The important thing is to set the limits at appropriate limits.   If you are setting the limits too restrictive, this is not smart.  But appropriate limits is smart.   Not setting any limits is not smart and can be costly.  A frozen AC can be costly.  Intentionally wasteful utilities can be costly.  

      I have limits set on all of our STR HVAC systems.



      This is known as the "Property Manager" Mindset. They don't pay for the HVAC or Electric bill. It's not their property so they don't care if something breaks/utility bill is high. Below are some of the Property Manager Mindset Examples:

      - Tell the Home Owner that renting at $1/night is good (Inventory is Perishable)
      - Tell the Home Owner to Turn up Pool Temps to 90+ F
      - Tell the Home Owner that HVAC and Electric Bills are to be expected.

      Meanwhile, instead of the driving profitability to your home, the PM focuses 100% of their effort on recruiting new home owners. This is a trick I've seen PMs pull on home owners all the time. PMs in my experience never really care about the net profitability. The only thing they care about is "number of properties under management". Whatever they can do to simplify their operations to scale as much as possible is what they will want you to do. Its nothing more then where their incentive lies.

      0Reply
    • Collin HaysBusiness Member
      OP
      Property Manager 路 Gatlinburg, TN 路 Member since 2020 路 3k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Sunil Ghosal:
      Quote from @Dan H.:
      Quote from @Collin Hays:

      We are currently dealing with two homeowners that insist on saving a few dollars on utilities by putting upper and lower limits on the thermostat. They are getting blistered with poor reviews, and future guests are calling in to cancel because of the reviews.  Penny wise, pound foolish.

      Just. Don't.  


       I could not disagree with this post more:

      - not setting a minimum could freeze the AC resulting is large repair bill

      - tenants can set ac low just to run up the electric bill or set the heat to run up the gas bill.

      - humidity can be an issue.  It is important for the HVAC to control humidity. 

      The important thing is to set the limits at appropriate limits.   If you are setting the limits too restrictive, this is not smart.  But appropriate limits is smart.   Not setting any limits is not smart and can be costly.  A frozen AC can be costly.  Intentionally wasteful utilities can be costly.  

      I have limits set on all of our STR HVAC systems.



      This is known as the "Property Manager" Mindset. They don't pay for the HVAC or Electric bill. It's not their property so they don't care if something breaks/utility bill is high. Below are some of the Property Manager Mindset Examples:

      - Tell the Home Owner that renting at $1/night is good (Inventory is Perishable)
      - Tell the Home Owner to Turn up Pool Temps to 90+ F
      - Tell the Home Owner that HVAC and Electric Bills are to be expected.

      Meanwhile, instead of the driving profitability to your home, the PM focuses 100% of their effort on recruiting new home owners. This is a trick I've seen PMs pull on home owners all the time. PMs in my experience never really care about the net profitability. The only thing they care about is "number of properties under management". Whatever they can do to simplify their operations to scale as much as possible is what they will want you to do. Its nothing more then where their incentive lies.

      This probably isn't the right thread to grind your axe against Property Managers. If I had no regard for my client's "net profitability, I wouldn't be concerned about negative reviews and guests cancelling future reservations. 
      [email protected]806-672-7102
      SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
      WebsiteView Page
      0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor 路 FL 路 Member since 2016 路 332 posts 路 388 votes
    1y

    For my Smokys properties I do not have limits or wifi thermostats. For my Florida beach properties it is ranged 68 to 78.

    1Reply
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor 路 VA 路 Member since 2015 路 21k+ posts 路 19k+ votes
    1y

    Like most situations  - it depends. Having limits is not a bad thing but it also depends on what the limits they are putting are. 

    If its Florida and they are putting a high limit of like 68 yeah I would be ticked as I like it to be low 70's temperature. Similar if they do not let it go below 75 then again yeah people will be upset. IF you gave it 65-75 degrees in that type of climate that should be more than fine. 

    But yes people out there are cheap and are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

    7e investments53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Joe Impagliazzo
    Real Estate Lender 路 Newport, RI 路 Member since 2014 路 182 posts 路 33 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Collin Hays:

    We are currently dealing with two homeowners that insist on saving a few dollars on utilities by putting upper and lower limits on the thermostat. They are getting blistered with poor reviews, and future guests are calling in to cancel because of the reviews.  Penny wise, pound foolish.

    Just. Don't.  

     I hate my 2 nest.  Came with the house and have a mind of their own.  They are not in a good spot to know if we are home or not.   The only nice thing is being to control heat/AC from my phone

    1Reply
  • Kerry BairdPro Member
    Rental Property Investor 路 Melbourne, FL 路 Member since 2011 路 3k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    1y

    @Joe Impagliazzo, I also hate the Nest, which goes automatically on its eco setting while guests are asleep or outside at the pool, so they come in to a hot house.  At the next turnover, I will be replacing the Nest with a dumb thermostat.

    0Reply
    • Joe Impagliazzo
      Real Estate Lender 路 Newport, RI 路 Member since 2014 路 182 posts 路 33 votes
      1y

      @Kerry Baird you can turn if off on the phone app but the app isn't very good either

      0Reply
  • Stone Pittman
    Member since 2025 路 10 posts 路 4 votes
    1y

    I feel like you set boundaries rather than limits. Cap them at 67 so they don't set the ac to 60. Cap them at 74 so they don't set it to 80. 

    1Reply
  • Tyler Divin
    Property Manager 路 Chattanooga, TN 路 Member since 2018 路 175 posts 路 134 votes
    1y

    I disagree as long as the limits are setup reasonably.  We limit ours to 67/68 low and 73/74 high.  We did this after having two issues in 2024.  One guest in the winter in Helen, GA had his son staying upstairs which is on it's own unit.  He came in hot after a long day riding bikes and turned the AC to 55 when his father downstairs had the heat on 70.  The upstairs unit froze up and they were upset that there was an issue until we investigated and explained what happened.

    Another one in Chattanooga in the dead of winter, the guest turned the thermostat to 85 and complained that it was cold and not getting up to the temperature she had it set at as if the property/unit was defective.

    Each time it cost us a HVAC tech visit that interrupted the guests stay.  After that we set high/low limitations, put a sticker on the thermostat stating the limits, and added it to our welcome binders along with an explanation that turning the HVAC system way up or down can cause issues that will interrupt the stay.

    For me it's not about the utility bill its about keeping guests from doing something that impacts their stay and causes an expensive service visit.  With both these guests we had to explain to them what the issue was and calm them down because they were upset as if something at the property was defective when in reality no HVAC system can perform how they were asking it to perform.

    1Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free