Dramatic Decline in Bookings - Western NC
Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 27 votes
Dramatic Decline in Bookings - Western NC
Most Popular Reply
Collin HaysBusiness Member
Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votesQuote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @Collin Hays:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Is anyone else seeing a big dropoff in bookings for Western NC - specifically Bryson City area. I get that hurricane areas are likely affected but Bryson City did not have any damage. Our summer bookings are almost non-existent. Last year was very strong. It's a very weird situation.
Thanks for the info. Any idea on what that is being attributed to?
This will take a few years to sort out.
50 Replies
- 1yCollin HaysBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votesYes, bookings in the Smokies are down significantly. The exceptions will chime in on here, but this summer looks to be -15 percent over last summer. That is an average. Some properties are even, some are down 30-40 percent.
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Is anyone else seeing a big dropoff in bookings for Western NC - specifically Bryson City area. I get that hurricane areas are likely affected but Bryson City did not have any damage. Our summer bookings are almost non-existent. Last year was very strong. It's a very weird situation.
- Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 27 votes1y
Quote from @Collin Hays:
Yes, bookings in the Smokies are down significantly. The exceptions will chime in on here, but this summer looks to be -15 percent over last summer. That is an average. Some properties are even, some are down 30-40 percent.Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Is anyone else seeing a big dropoff in bookings for Western NC - specifically Bryson City area. I get that hurricane areas are likely affected but Bryson City did not have any damage. Our summer bookings are almost non-existent. Last year was very strong. It's a very weird situation.
Thanks for the info. Any idea on what that is being attributed to?
- 1yCollin HaysBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votesMacroeconomics are suppressing spending, combined with a massive overbuilt supply of properties. If you aren’t playing “race to the bottom” with rates, you aren’t getting bookings.
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @Collin Hays:
Yes, bookings in the Smokies are down significantly. The exceptions will chime in on here, but this summer looks to be -15 percent over last summer. That is an average. Some properties are even, some are down 30-40 percent.Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Is anyone else seeing a big dropoff in bookings for Western NC - specifically Bryson City area. I get that hurricane areas are likely affected but Bryson City did not have any damage. Our summer bookings are almost non-existent. Last year was very strong. It's a very weird situation.
Thanks for the info. Any idea on what that is being attributed to?
This will take a few years to sort out. - Lender · Orange County, CA · Member since 2019 · 299 posts · 255 votes1y
Quote from @Collin Hays:
Macroeconomics are suppressing spending, combined with a massive overbuilt supply of properties. If you aren’t playing “race to the bottom” with rates, you aren’t getting bookings.Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @Collin Hays:
Yes, bookings in the Smokies are down significantly. The exceptions will chime in on here, but this summer looks to be -15 percent over last summer. That is an average. Some properties are even, some are down 30-40 percent.Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Is anyone else seeing a big dropoff in bookings for Western NC - specifically Bryson City area. I get that hurricane areas are likely affected but Bryson City did not have any damage. Our summer bookings are almost non-existent. Last year was very strong. It's a very weird situation.
Thanks for the info. Any idea on what that is being attributed to?
This will take a few years to sort out.Ya, "race to the bottom" is exactly what I'm playing these days. I don't like this game.
- Lender · Charleston, SC · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Probably related to consumer pullback across the board. Im seeing it in several areas. Lots of fear and uncertainty of the economy right now
- Member since 2021 · 46 posts · 57 votes1y
Last minute bookings are also up across the board. People may be holding off booking till less than a couple weeks out. Best thing to do is make sure you're doing everything you can to get all the bookings that do come in.
- Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 27 votes1y
Quote from @Joseph Sauer:
Last minute bookings are also up across the board. People may be holding off booking till less than a couple weeks out. Best thing to do is make sure you're doing everything you can to get all the bookings that do come in.
We have lowered prices once already based on PriceLabs recommendation. What tactics have you employed?
- Member since 2021 · 46 posts · 57 votes1y
I've updated my whole listing page. Used ChatGPT and it did most of the work for the descriptions after I tell it what I'm wanting and my target audience. I updated my pictures making sure the top 5 are the best for the season. And then I go and check out the other STRs in my market to make sure I'm still competing on prices, amenities, etc. Pricelabs is great, but make sure you're looking at the comparables too. A couple listings that are ridiculously under/overpriced could throw off the numbers that PriceLabs gives you.
- Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 27 votes1y
Quote from @Joseph Sauer:
I've updated my whole listing page. Used ChatGPT and it did most of the work for the descriptions after I tell it what I'm wanting and my target audience. I updated my pictures making sure the top 5 are the best for the season. And then I go and check out the other STRs in my market to make sure I'm still competing on prices, amenities, etc. Pricelabs is great, but make sure you're looking at the comparables too. A couple listings that are ridiculously under/overpriced could throw off the numbers that PriceLabs gives you.
Great advice. I might try the AI update. Hadn't thought about that.
- 1yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
I have heard this same thing over and over for various places. Luckily we still have strong bookings at our places.
If my lake house occupancy were to decline a little that would give me more opportunity to use the place!
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Wow, that is a crazy saturated market with inventory....
Holy cow, I just was curious and started looking around and it was just pages after pages of inventory. over 300 units listing for STR.... And that was on just 1 platform....
For city that has 1,500 population, I think it's hard to expect tourism to be a multiple of the population itself. And with this kind of inventory, that's what you are needing to be healthy.
I get it's got good tourism, but it ain't no Vegas or Nashville.
When inventory has become that over saturated, there ain't much one can do. Be different of be cheap. That's about it.
- Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 27 votes1y
Quote from @James Hamling:
Wow, that is a crazy saturated market with inventory....
Holy cow, I just was curious and started looking around and it was just pages after pages of inventory. over 300 units listing for STR.... And that was on just 1 platform....
For city that has 1,500 population, I think it's hard to expect tourism to be a multiple of the population itself. And with this kind of inventory, that's what you are needing to be healthy.
I get it's got good tourism, but it ain't no Vegas or Nashville.
When inventory has become that over saturated, there ain't much one can do. Be different of be cheap. That's about it.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Wow, that is a crazy saturated market with inventory....
Holy cow, I just was curious and started looking around and it was just pages after pages of inventory. over 300 units listing for STR.... And that was on just 1 platform....
For city that has 1,500 population, I think it's hard to expect tourism to be a multiple of the population itself. And with this kind of inventory, that's what you are needing to be healthy.
I get it's got good tourism, but it ain't no Vegas or Nashville.
When inventory has become that over saturated, there ain't much one can do. Be different of be cheap. That's about it.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.
Lol. If you refuse to acknowledge simple supply/demand dynamics, well as they say can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.
An hour from Dollywood is a big fat nothing burger. That the definition of stretching. How many thousands of unit choices is there in that hour?
How many thousands of other units is there throughout the rest of the smokies?
If you going to peg value and attraction on a 1hr radius, then your going to have to take into account the inventory and competition in that radius.
Reality is over-saturation. Reality doesn't care how much you like or dislike it, for it to still be the reality.
- Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 27 votes1y
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Wow, that is a crazy saturated market with inventory....
Holy cow, I just was curious and started looking around and it was just pages after pages of inventory. over 300 units listing for STR.... And that was on just 1 platform....
For city that has 1,500 population, I think it's hard to expect tourism to be a multiple of the population itself. And with this kind of inventory, that's what you are needing to be healthy.
I get it's got good tourism, but it ain't no Vegas or Nashville.
When inventory has become that over saturated, there ain't much one can do. Be different of be cheap. That's about it.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.
Lol. If you refuse to acknowledge simple supply/demand dynamics, well as they say can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.
An hour from Dollywood is a big fat nothing burger. That the definition of stretching. How many thousands of unit choices is there in that hour?
How many thousands of other units is there throughout the rest of the smokies?
If you going to peg value and attraction on a 1hr radius, then your going to have to take into account the inventory and competition in that radius.
Reality is over-saturation. Reality doesn't care how much you like or dislike it, for it to still be the reality.
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I now understand that the market became oversaturated this year when my rental has been doing well for the years prior to this year.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Wow, that is a crazy saturated market with inventory....
Holy cow, I just was curious and started looking around and it was just pages after pages of inventory. over 300 units listing for STR.... And that was on just 1 platform....
For city that has 1,500 population, I think it's hard to expect tourism to be a multiple of the population itself. And with this kind of inventory, that's what you are needing to be healthy.
I get it's got good tourism, but it ain't no Vegas or Nashville.
When inventory has become that over saturated, there ain't much one can do. Be different of be cheap. That's about it.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.
Lol. If you refuse to acknowledge simple supply/demand dynamics, well as they say can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.
An hour from Dollywood is a big fat nothing burger. That the definition of stretching. How many thousands of unit choices is there in that hour?
How many thousands of other units is there throughout the rest of the smokies?
If you going to peg value and attraction on a 1hr radius, then your going to have to take into account the inventory and competition in that radius.
Reality is over-saturation. Reality doesn't care how much you like or dislike it, for it to still be the reality.
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I now understand that the market became oversaturated this year when my rental has been doing well for the years prior to this year.
Do you honestly think nobody else has thrown there hat in the STR ring in the area the last years? Have you been living in a cave?
STR has been marketed at epic levels for the smokies in recent. @Collin Hays a local expert has said the same. Overbuilt supply.
Fingers in the ears, stomping your feet yelling "nah-ah, I can't hear you, nope nope nope" won't change reality.
Yes, inventory has ADDED, a lot, over this time. Through various reasons and actions.
And it's why there is a significant separation happening between the good pro's in STR who engage in providing unique, special, experienced based STR's and those who just have "A house" somewhere.
Adoption is one causality. STR is no longer "new". It's well known, and well proven. So adoption into putting a property into STR has come to a different age of things vs 3/4 years ago when there was a lot more questions on how legit it is, who rents them etc etc..
As well there is more choice in platforms, platforms are more competitive than ever. So it's less special about ranking good on any 1 of them, so the bar of requirement for marketing chops has raised.
The industry has been professionalizing. And it sounds that during this time you've been coasting. Well, that's how good business's go bad, ignoring the environment.
If you ignore the change, and refuse to change yourself, it will not end well for you. I guarantee it.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Wow, that is a crazy saturated market with inventory....
Holy cow, I just was curious and started looking around and it was just pages after pages of inventory. over 300 units listing for STR.... And that was on just 1 platform....
For city that has 1,500 population, I think it's hard to expect tourism to be a multiple of the population itself. And with this kind of inventory, that's what you are needing to be healthy.
I get it's got good tourism, but it ain't no Vegas or Nashville.
When inventory has become that over saturated, there ain't much one can do. Be different of be cheap. That's about it.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.
Lol. If you refuse to acknowledge simple supply/demand dynamics, well as they say can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.
An hour from Dollywood is a big fat nothing burger. That the definition of stretching. How many thousands of unit choices is there in that hour?
How many thousands of other units is there throughout the rest of the smokies?
If you going to peg value and attraction on a 1hr radius, then your going to have to take into account the inventory and competition in that radius.
Reality is over-saturation. Reality doesn't care how much you like or dislike it, for it to still be the reality.
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I now understand that the market became oversaturated this year when my rental has been doing well for the years prior to this year.
Do you honestly think nobody else has thrown there hat in the STR ring in the area the last years? Have you been living in a cave?
STR has been marketed at epic levels for the smokies in recent. @Collin Hays a local expert has said the same. Overbuilt supply.
Fingers in the ears, stomping your feet yelling "nah-ah, I can't hear you, nope nope nope" won't change reality.
Yes, inventory has ADDED, a lot, over this time. Through various reasons and actions.
And it's why there is a significant separation happening between the good pro's in STR who engage in providing unique, special, experienced based STR's and those who just have "A house" somewhere.
Adoption is one causality. STR is no longer "new". It's well known, and well proven. So adoption into putting a property into STR has come to a different age of things vs 3/4 years ago when there was a lot more questions on how legit it is, who rents them etc etc..
As well there is more choice in platforms, platforms are more competitive than ever. So it's less special about ranking good on any 1 of them, so the bar of requirement for marketing chops has raised.
The industry has been professionalizing. And it sounds that during this time you've been coasting. Well, that's how good business's go bad, ignoring the environment.
If you ignore the change, and refuse to change yourself, it will not end well for you. I guarantee it.
U know what we need is some site that lets you make offers on STR stays.. I dont see a way to communicate with the owners of these things as they hid behind the listing company. So seems to me people just look at the price and pass .. where as if you can make an offer.. maybe the owner would take it or counter offer.. sespically like if you wanted to rent for 2 to 4 weeks like I want to do in prime fishing time.. used to be able to do that in Palm Springs I rented a house for there for 4 months I think it was 12k.. that was 2008 before the crash :) - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Wow, that is a crazy saturated market with inventory....
Holy cow, I just was curious and started looking around and it was just pages after pages of inventory. over 300 units listing for STR.... And that was on just 1 platform....
For city that has 1,500 population, I think it's hard to expect tourism to be a multiple of the population itself. And with this kind of inventory, that's what you are needing to be healthy.
I get it's got good tourism, but it ain't no Vegas or Nashville.
When inventory has become that over saturated, there ain't much one can do. Be different of be cheap. That's about it.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.
Lol. If you refuse to acknowledge simple supply/demand dynamics, well as they say can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.
An hour from Dollywood is a big fat nothing burger. That the definition of stretching. How many thousands of unit choices is there in that hour?
How many thousands of other units is there throughout the rest of the smokies?
If you going to peg value and attraction on a 1hr radius, then your going to have to take into account the inventory and competition in that radius.
Reality is over-saturation. Reality doesn't care how much you like or dislike it, for it to still be the reality.
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I now understand that the market became oversaturated this year when my rental has been doing well for the years prior to this year.
Do you honestly think nobody else has thrown there hat in the STR ring in the area the last years? Have you been living in a cave?
STR has been marketed at epic levels for the smokies in recent. @Collin Hays a local expert has said the same. Overbuilt supply.
Fingers in the ears, stomping your feet yelling "nah-ah, I can't hear you, nope nope nope" won't change reality.
Yes, inventory has ADDED, a lot, over this time. Through various reasons and actions.
And it's why there is a significant separation happening between the good pro's in STR who engage in providing unique, special, experienced based STR's and those who just have "A house" somewhere.
Adoption is one causality. STR is no longer "new". It's well known, and well proven. So adoption into putting a property into STR has come to a different age of things vs 3/4 years ago when there was a lot more questions on how legit it is, who rents them etc etc..
As well there is more choice in platforms, platforms are more competitive than ever. So it's less special about ranking good on any 1 of them, so the bar of requirement for marketing chops has raised.
The industry has been professionalizing. And it sounds that during this time you've been coasting. Well, that's how good business's go bad, ignoring the environment.
If you ignore the change, and refuse to change yourself, it will not end well for you. I guarantee it.
U know what we need is some site that lets you make offers on STR stays.. I dont see a way to communicate with the owners of these things as they hid behind the listing company. So seems to me people just look at the price and pass .. where as if you can make an offer.. maybe the owner would take it or counter offer.. sespically like if you wanted to rent for 2 to 4 weeks like I want to do in prime fishing time.. used to be able to do that in Palm Springs I rented a house for there for 4 months I think it was 12k.. that was 2008 before the crash :)That's a good point and brilliant idea Jay.
Being a "Hockey Dad" and some other charity things, I've seen when a STR get's put up for auction for a fund raiser, and there always a red-hot item.
And it's kind of ironic because it's never the "hot" STR place that got put up. There decent, but the places just getting by, doing ok, or maybe even a bit sluggish. But when it's offered for offers, holly-cow people brawl it out and bid bid bid.
Would be very interesting to see how it would go for a STR platform that has bid pricing vs set pricing.
For now a person can use existing auctioneer to host such.
Yeah, if I had a sluggish STR that's what I would do, I'd throw it up on a good auction site for a package. See what I can get but would also get a lot of new potential clients from the visibility regardless.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Wow, that is a crazy saturated market with inventory....
Holy cow, I just was curious and started looking around and it was just pages after pages of inventory. over 300 units listing for STR.... And that was on just 1 platform....
For city that has 1,500 population, I think it's hard to expect tourism to be a multiple of the population itself. And with this kind of inventory, that's what you are needing to be healthy.
I get it's got good tourism, but it ain't no Vegas or Nashville.
When inventory has become that over saturated, there ain't much one can do. Be different of be cheap. That's about it.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.
Lol. If you refuse to acknowledge simple supply/demand dynamics, well as they say can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.
An hour from Dollywood is a big fat nothing burger. That the definition of stretching. How many thousands of unit choices is there in that hour?
How many thousands of other units is there throughout the rest of the smokies?
If you going to peg value and attraction on a 1hr radius, then your going to have to take into account the inventory and competition in that radius.
Reality is over-saturation. Reality doesn't care how much you like or dislike it, for it to still be the reality.
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I now understand that the market became oversaturated this year when my rental has been doing well for the years prior to this year.
Do you honestly think nobody else has thrown there hat in the STR ring in the area the last years? Have you been living in a cave?
STR has been marketed at epic levels for the smokies in recent. @Collin Hays a local expert has said the same. Overbuilt supply.
Fingers in the ears, stomping your feet yelling "nah-ah, I can't hear you, nope nope nope" won't change reality.
Yes, inventory has ADDED, a lot, over this time. Through various reasons and actions.
And it's why there is a significant separation happening between the good pro's in STR who engage in providing unique, special, experienced based STR's and those who just have "A house" somewhere.
Adoption is one causality. STR is no longer "new". It's well known, and well proven. So adoption into putting a property into STR has come to a different age of things vs 3/4 years ago when there was a lot more questions on how legit it is, who rents them etc etc..
As well there is more choice in platforms, platforms are more competitive than ever. So it's less special about ranking good on any 1 of them, so the bar of requirement for marketing chops has raised.
The industry has been professionalizing. And it sounds that during this time you've been coasting. Well, that's how good business's go bad, ignoring the environment.
If you ignore the change, and refuse to change yourself, it will not end well for you. I guarantee it.
U know what we need is some site that lets you make offers on STR stays.. I dont see a way to communicate with the owners of these things as they hid behind the listing company. So seems to me people just look at the price and pass .. where as if you can make an offer.. maybe the owner would take it or counter offer.. sespically like if you wanted to rent for 2 to 4 weeks like I want to do in prime fishing time.. used to be able to do that in Palm Springs I rented a house for there for 4 months I think it was 12k.. that was 2008 before the crash :)That's a good point and brilliant idea Jay.
Being a "Hockey Dad" and some other charity things, I've seen when a STR get's put up for auction for a fund raiser, and there always a red-hot item.
And it's kind of ironic because it's never the "hot" STR place that got put up. There decent, but the places just getting by, doing ok, or maybe even a bit sluggish. But when it's offered for offers, holly-cow people brawl it out and bid bid bid.
Would be very interesting to see how it would go for a STR platform that has bid pricing vs set pricing.
For now a person can use existing auctioneer to host such.
Yeah, if I had a sluggish STR that's what I would do, I'd throw it up on a good auction site for a package. See what I can get but would also get a lot of new potential clients from the visibility regardless.
people are funny some might think they need a 50% discount others might just look for 10% and the owners would be tickled to get a renter at 10% never have the chance because you cant make an offer.. I mean I dont know anything about how these sites work other than VRBO and I have only uesd that a few times.. I dont use airbnb because it makes you up loand your drivers license and I dont know how to do that :( so they are missing all us old folks that are not computer savvy just for that one reason. at least they lose me I never even look at airbnb only vrbo.. and I only rent when there are no hotel accomodations and of course I dont travel with a family just me a fishing friend or my wife and I.. And being able to cook is not important to us personally as we go out to eat. - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Wow, that is a crazy saturated market with inventory....
Holy cow, I just was curious and started looking around and it was just pages after pages of inventory. over 300 units listing for STR.... And that was on just 1 platform....
For city that has 1,500 population, I think it's hard to expect tourism to be a multiple of the population itself. And with this kind of inventory, that's what you are needing to be healthy.
I get it's got good tourism, but it ain't no Vegas or Nashville.
When inventory has become that over saturated, there ain't much one can do. Be different of be cheap. That's about it.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.
Lol. If you refuse to acknowledge simple supply/demand dynamics, well as they say can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.
An hour from Dollywood is a big fat nothing burger. That the definition of stretching. How many thousands of unit choices is there in that hour?
How many thousands of other units is there throughout the rest of the smokies?
If you going to peg value and attraction on a 1hr radius, then your going to have to take into account the inventory and competition in that radius.
Reality is over-saturation. Reality doesn't care how much you like or dislike it, for it to still be the reality.
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I now understand that the market became oversaturated this year when my rental has been doing well for the years prior to this year.
Do you honestly think nobody else has thrown there hat in the STR ring in the area the last years? Have you been living in a cave?
STR has been marketed at epic levels for the smokies in recent. @Collin Hays a local expert has said the same. Overbuilt supply.
Fingers in the ears, stomping your feet yelling "nah-ah, I can't hear you, nope nope nope" won't change reality.
Yes, inventory has ADDED, a lot, over this time. Through various reasons and actions.
And it's why there is a significant separation happening between the good pro's in STR who engage in providing unique, special, experienced based STR's and those who just have "A house" somewhere.
Adoption is one causality. STR is no longer "new". It's well known, and well proven. So adoption into putting a property into STR has come to a different age of things vs 3/4 years ago when there was a lot more questions on how legit it is, who rents them etc etc..
As well there is more choice in platforms, platforms are more competitive than ever. So it's less special about ranking good on any 1 of them, so the bar of requirement for marketing chops has raised.
The industry has been professionalizing. And it sounds that during this time you've been coasting. Well, that's how good business's go bad, ignoring the environment.
If you ignore the change, and refuse to change yourself, it will not end well for you. I guarantee it.
U know what we need is some site that lets you make offers on STR stays.. I dont see a way to communicate with the owners of these things as they hid behind the listing company. So seems to me people just look at the price and pass .. where as if you can make an offer.. maybe the owner would take it or counter offer.. sespically like if you wanted to rent for 2 to 4 weeks like I want to do in prime fishing time.. used to be able to do that in Palm Springs I rented a house for there for 4 months I think it was 12k.. that was 2008 before the crash :)That's a good point and brilliant idea Jay.
Being a "Hockey Dad" and some other charity things, I've seen when a STR get's put up for auction for a fund raiser, and there always a red-hot item.
And it's kind of ironic because it's never the "hot" STR place that got put up. There decent, but the places just getting by, doing ok, or maybe even a bit sluggish. But when it's offered for offers, holly-cow people brawl it out and bid bid bid.
Would be very interesting to see how it would go for a STR platform that has bid pricing vs set pricing.
For now a person can use existing auctioneer to host such.
Yeah, if I had a sluggish STR that's what I would do, I'd throw it up on a good auction site for a package. See what I can get but would also get a lot of new potential clients from the visibility regardless.
people are funny some might think they need a 50% discount others might just look for 10% and the owners would be tickled to get a renter at 10% never have the chance because you cant make an offer.. I mean I dont know anything about how these sites work other than VRBO and I have only uesd that a few times.. I dont use airbnb because it makes you up loand your drivers license and I dont know how to do that :( so they are missing all us old folks that are not computer savvy just for that one reason. at least they lose me I never even look at airbnb only vrbo.. and I only rent when there are no hotel accomodations and of course I dont travel with a family just me a fishing friend or my wife and I.. And being able to cook is not important to us personally as we go out to eat.I'm right there with ya.
My wife does all of that stuff as the tech, the 100 step's, it just confuses and frustrates me too much. My default is Hilton, let's just book a dang Hilton.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes1y
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Is anyone else seeing a big dropoff in bookings for Western NC - specifically Bryson City area. I get that hurricane areas are likely affected but Bryson City did not have any damage. Our summer bookings are almost non-existent. Last year was very strong. It's a very weird situation.
have you considered moving it into a long term rental, as others mentioned looks like an oversaturated market and a race to the bottom?
7e investments53 Reviews- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Is anyone else seeing a big dropoff in bookings for Western NC - specifically Bryson City area. I get that hurricane areas are likely affected but Bryson City did not have any damage. Our summer bookings are almost non-existent. Last year was very strong. It's a very weird situation.
have you considered moving it into a long term rental, as others mentioned looks like an oversaturated market and a race to the bottom?
As I told another poster: It's this year that's the issue. Last year and years before were fine. Long term rental is not an option.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.Ok, so you didn't come on here for help Mike, or to learn anything, or for information....
You just wanted to vent and seek confirmation to your pre-determined feelings of things.
It's very simple for me to determine your going to loose $ LT. Because you're follow feelings over facts, data, metrics and math.
So it was good years ago, that means nothing going forward. Things change. Inventory changes, competition changes, interests change, disposable incomes change. CHANGE is the only constant.
One has to be open to observing what the changes are and acting accordingly.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes1y
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Is anyone else seeing a big dropoff in bookings for Western NC - specifically Bryson City area. I get that hurricane areas are likely affected but Bryson City did not have any damage. Our summer bookings are almost non-existent. Last year was very strong. It's a very weird situation.
have you considered moving it into a long term rental, as others mentioned looks like an oversaturated market and a race to the bottom?
As I told another poster: It's this year that's the issue. Last year and years before were fine. Long term rental is not an option.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.when you say prior years - what did 2015-2019 look like as that is probably more of a norm than 2020-2023. you cannot use 2020-2023 as a baseline as three are far too many external consequences that impacted the market.
7e investments53 Reviews - Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 27 votes1y
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Is anyone else seeing a big dropoff in bookings for Western NC - specifically Bryson City area. I get that hurricane areas are likely affected but Bryson City did not have any damage. Our summer bookings are almost non-existent. Last year was very strong. It's a very weird situation.
have you considered moving it into a long term rental, as others mentioned looks like an oversaturated market and a race to the bottom?
As I told another poster: It's this year that's the issue. Last year and years before were fine. Long term rental is not an option.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.
You might not understand the area well. This sits on the southern entrance to the Smokey Mtn. NP, is about an hour or so from DollyWood, has incredible outdoor adventures, etc. Last year was very good. It's this year that has dropped off dramatically. That's not an oversaturation issue. It's something else.when you say prior years - what did 2015-2019 look like as that is probably more of a norm than 2020-2023. you cannot use 2020-2023 as a baseline as three are far too many external consequences that impacted the market.
Our rental does not go back that far. So, we cannot compare those two timeframes. But I see your point. I realize that Covid years through things out of whack but did not consider 2024 in the same domain.
- 1yAndrew SteffensBusiness MemberTampa, FL · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I noticed when Hurricane Ian hit Ft Myers area my property I manage in Naples that did not get damaged in the storm, still suffers to this day. There is a stigma to an area after a natural disaster, especially one sensationalized in the media, that takes years to overcome.
Vacation Rentals of Florida53 Reviews- Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 27 votes1y
Quote from @Andrew Steffens:
I noticed when Hurricane Ian hit Ft Myers area my property I manage in Naples that did not get damaged in the storm, still suffers to this day. There is a stigma to an area after a natural disaster, especially one sensationalized in the media, that takes years to overcome.
I'm thinking that might be a big factor this year. Thanks for the insight into Ft. Myers.
- 1yAndrew SteffensBusiness MemberTampa, FL · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @Andrew Steffens:
I noticed when Hurricane Ian hit Ft Myers area my property I manage in Naples that did not get damaged in the storm, still suffers to this day. There is a stigma to an area after a natural disaster, especially one sensationalized in the media, that takes years to overcome.
I'm thinking that might be a big factor this year. Thanks for the insight into Ft. Myers.
Best of luck. I am in the Tampa area and got hit hard during Helene and Milton. Our local chambers of commerce spent over $6M showing us back open for business. Its been a solid year so far. Maybe lobbying your local Chamber can yield some result.
Vacation Rentals of Florida53 Reviews
- 1yMike GrudzienPro MemberLender · Eugene, OR · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Market correction time....
- Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Betting on tourism has always been a bet and you have to make extra cash in the good years so you can survive the bad ones.
I was in Vegas for work in 2009 when they shut down the Aria hotel halfway through construction and the strip was just a ghost town. We were meeting with construction equipment dealers and got sucker punched at every meeting the whole week long.
It left a deep impression on me to never invest in tourism; by extension, this is what kept me out of the STR space.
Here are some 2025 stats from beyondpricing.com:Memphis
Occupancy This Year: 38.20%
Memphis has been facing challenges in attracting enough short-term rental demand. The decline in occupancy highlights a competitive regional market with high supply and limited interest from tourists.
Big Bear Lake
Occupancy This Year: 32.40%
Big Bear Lake, known for its charming cabins and beautiful landscapes, has seen a slight drop in occupancy. This change may be due to increasing competition in similar nature-centric destinations.
Flathead National Forest
Occupancy This Year: 30.70%
Despite its stunning natural beauty, Flathead National Forest's occupancy rates have decreased, which might be attributed to stricter STR regulations and limited local tourism initiatives.
Eastern Oregon
Occupancy This Year: 31.60%
Eastern Oregon's rugged terrain and outdoor adventures haven't translated into increased demand for short-term rentals, evidenced by its continued low occupancy rates.
Atlantic City
Occupancy This Year: 34.60%
Atlantic City remains stagnant with no growth in occupancy, possibly due to heightened competition and evolving traveler expectations favoring alternative destinations.
Lake of the Ozarks
Occupancy This Year: 35.10%
With its scenic views and leisurely activities, Lake of the Ozarks is still struggling with lower occupancy rates compounded by an excess supply of vacation rentals.
Jasper
Occupancy This Year: 36.30%
Jasper's appeal as a nature retreat is not enough to counteract declining occupancy rates, suggesting possible shifts in visitor preferences or investment saturation.
Sun Valley
Occupancy This Year: 37.00%
Sun Valley, despite its year-round attractions, is experiencing a significant drop in occupancy, perhaps due to increased competition from similar resort towns.
- Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
This looks to me like AirDNA has deleted their 2025 Short-term Outlook report:
- 1yCollin HaysBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
This looks to me like AirDNA has deleted their 2025 Short-term Outlook report:
How convenient. Pretty easy to have a short-term outlook when everything is going up. When you have to actually do some real analysis, suddenly the reports go away.
- Investor · Bryson City, NC · Member since 2013 · 162 posts · 122 votes1y
You are not alone. I am not sure if you are local or not, but there is no one on the ground here that I have spoken to that is doing better year over year and most are way down. Town has been quiet this spring and this weekend was the first time it felt normal for the time of the year. I think there has been some good info in the thread, but I will throw my hat in the ring with the fact that we are oversaturated in addition to some minor stigma of the hurricane. I am involved in the building industry here and I am consistently surprised when I see and hear of project after project of STR specific units being built or planned given the numbers we have been seeing since covid. I've had STRs on Airbnb since late 2015 and this was my weakest winter/spring season since then. Anecdotally my personal home is less than 1/2 mile from Deep Creek entrance to GSMNP and I am surrounded by 11 STRs and can honestly say that they have basically been empty since January. I have transitioned one STR to LTR and am now planning on selling some land that we had earmarked for STRs. I'm still long term bullish on the market here but in my opinion there is going to be some serious correction that is going to take place in the near term.
- Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 27 votes1y
Quote from @Kyle H.:
You are not alone. I am not sure if you are local or not, but there is no one on the ground here that I have spoken to that is doing better year over year and most are way down. Town has been quiet this spring and this weekend was the first time it felt normal for the time of the year. I think there has been some good info in the thread, but I will throw my hat in the ring with the fact that we are oversaturated in addition to some minor stigma of the hurricane. I am involved in the building industry here and I am consistently surprised when I see and hear of project after project of STR specific units being built or planned given the numbers we have been seeing since covid. I've had STRs on Airbnb since late 2015 and this was my weakest winter/spring season since then. Anecdotally my personal home is less than 1/2 mile from Deep Creek entrance to GSMNP and I am surrounded by 11 STRs and can honestly say that they have basically been empty since January. I have transitioned one STR to LTR and am now planning on selling some land that we had earmarked for STRs. I'm still long term bullish on the market here but in my opinion there is going to be some serious correction that is going to take place in the near term.
I'm not in Bryson City but we're there quite a bit. I've heard from our realtor that the town traffic has been way down. Having spoken with several cleaners, they are freaking out because their business is way down. So, oversaturation may be an issue, but it appears there is something else going on with visitation being down.
- Property Manager · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2018 · 175 posts · 134 votes1y
When times get tough competition increases so we step up our game. We have a home in Helen, GA where competition is up and tourism is probably down. We recently went in, made some updates, applied some elbow grease, took a new set of cohesive photos, re-did the descriptions, and bookings are up for this summer. We believe a big mistake that a lot of people are making is their listing is a space/a house when it should serve up a vacation experience on a silver platter. An ideal listing to us lays out a 3 to 7 day vacation experience whereas most people are showing a space and letting the potential guest figure out the experience. Furthermore, the vacation experience changes seasonally so our listings change seasonally. We think Airbnb's recent website redesign enforces that they're not just offering rooms, houses, and spaces anymore...it's all about the experiences.
- Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 27 votes1y
Quote from @Tyler Divin:
When times get tough competition increases so we step up our game. We have a home in Helen, GA where competition is up and tourism is probably down. We recently went in, made some updates, applied some elbow grease, took a new set of cohesive photos, re-did the descriptions, and bookings are up for this summer. We believe a big mistake that a lot of people are making is their listing is a space/a house when it should serve up a vacation experience on a silver platter. An ideal listing to us lays out a 3 to 7 day vacation experience whereas most people are showing a space and letting the potential guest figure out the experience. Furthermore, the vacation experience changes seasonally so our listings change seasonally. We think Airbnb's recent website redesign enforces that they're not just offering rooms, houses, and spaces anymore...it's all about the experiences.
That's very good advice and I keep hearing about guests moving more to experiences. Now to figure out how to offer "experiences". I did just recently update our descriptions; new photos will be coming shortly. Are you actually offering your guests an itinerary? How do you promote those offerings on the OTAs?
- Property Manager · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2018 · 175 posts · 134 votes1y
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @Tyler Divin:
When times get tough competition increases so we step up our game. We have a home in Helen, GA where competition is up and tourism is probably down. We recently went in, made some updates, applied some elbow grease, took a new set of cohesive photos, re-did the descriptions, and bookings are up for this summer. We believe a big mistake that a lot of people are making is their listing is a space/a house when it should serve up a vacation experience on a silver platter. An ideal listing to us lays out a 3 to 7 day vacation experience whereas most people are showing a space and letting the potential guest figure out the experience. Furthermore, the vacation experience changes seasonally so our listings change seasonally. We think Airbnb's recent website redesign enforces that they're not just offering rooms, houses, and spaces anymore...it's all about the experiences.
That's very good advice and I keep hearing about guests moving more to experiences. Now to figure out how to offer "experiences". I did just recently update our descriptions; new photos will be coming shortly. Are you actually offering your guests an itinerary? How do you promote those offerings on the OTAs?
We don't offer an exact itinerary. We tailor the descriptions, photos, and photo captions to give potential guests an idea of the best things to do, places to eat, and things to see. We describe the places, then show photos of them, and further reinforce this in the photo descriptions. Our cover photo is tested to maximize clicks on the ad. Once someone views the ad, we want to show them the space along with the best nearby attractions, so that if they read the description or view the photos, they can see a 3-day weekend of activities tailored to the audience based on the season we're booking into. We want them to not only see the house/property as working for them we want to make it easy to see all that there is to do nearby so they don't leave the ad to go research our location and what there is to do because if they leave the ad we're less likely to get them to come back. The way we think about it is 'teeing up a 3-day weekend on a silver platter'. We suspect Airbnb is seeing us doing this and promoting our listings more because we're focusing on the experiences, not just the spaces.
- Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 27 votes1y
Quote from @Tyler Divin:
Quote from @Mike Lattier:
Quote from @Tyler Divin:
When times get tough competition increases so we step up our game. We have a home in Helen, GA where competition is up and tourism is probably down. We recently went in, made some updates, applied some elbow grease, took a new set of cohesive photos, re-did the descriptions, and bookings are up for this summer. We believe a big mistake that a lot of people are making is their listing is a space/a house when it should serve up a vacation experience on a silver platter. An ideal listing to us lays out a 3 to 7 day vacation experience whereas most people are showing a space and letting the potential guest figure out the experience. Furthermore, the vacation experience changes seasonally so our listings change seasonally. We think Airbnb's recent website redesign enforces that they're not just offering rooms, houses, and spaces anymore...it's all about the experiences.
That's very good advice and I keep hearing about guests moving more to experiences. Now to figure out how to offer "experiences". I did just recently update our descriptions; new photos will be coming shortly. Are you actually offering your guests an itinerary? How do you promote those offerings on the OTAs?
We don't offer an exact itinerary. We tailor the descriptions, photos, and photo captions to give potential guests an idea of the best things to do, places to eat, and things to see. We describe the places, then show photos of them, and further reinforce this in the photo descriptions. Our cover photo is tested to maximize clicks on the ad. Once someone views the ad, we want to show them the space along with the best nearby attractions, so that if they read the description or view the photos, they can see a 3-day weekend of activities tailored to the audience based on the season we're booking into. We want them to not only see the house/property as working for them we want to make it easy to see all that there is to do nearby so they don't leave the ad to go research our location and what there is to do because if they leave the ad we're less likely to get them to come back. The way we think about it is 'teeing up a 3-day weekend on a silver platter'. We suspect Airbnb is seeing us doing this and promoting our listings more because we're focusing on the experiences, not just the spaces.
Gotcha. Very good advice. I'm gonna work on that.
- Rental Property Investor · Clayton, GA · Member since 2020 · 185 posts · 152 votes1y
I live in North GA, but I stand on my front porch and looking into WNC, we are just south of Franklin, i'm in Bryson City all the time as I fish in that area on the regular. I can tell you that my area is struggling too even being in North GA and not having the "stigma" of maybe the hurricane hit my area. It's an economic thing, people have run out of money, Airbnb I think is down over all because of the fee's, and i think some people see Bryson as an effected area.
The other part of it too is simply put there are just too many airbnb's in a lot of these mountain towns now and the market is saturated. The remote worker crowd is in some part back in the office now, or like me moved to the area and not renting. I honestly think it's going to be tough going for awhile I think people over bought too expecting this big revenue and its all dropped off. Just too many of them in a small town.
- Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Mike Anderson:
I live in North GA, but I stand on my front porch and looking into WNC, we are just south of Franklin, i'm in Bryson City all the time as I fish in that area on the regular. I can tell you that my area is struggling too even being in North GA and not having the "stigma" of maybe the hurricane hit my area. It's an economic thing, people have run out of money, Airbnb I think is down over all because of the fee's, and i think some people see Bryson as an effected area.
The other part of it too is simply put there are just too many airbnb's in a lot of these mountain towns now and the market is saturated. The remote worker crowd is in some part back in the office now, or like me moved to the area and not renting. I honestly think it's going to be tough going for awhile I think people over bought too expecting this big revenue and its all dropped off. Just too many of them in a small town.
Agreed. I first saw a photo of Bryson City (never been), where the mountains and river and train tracks all meet in a quaint little town, towards the end of 2021 and thought it would be an incredible place to own an investment property. Even then the purchase prices were inflated and the revenue estimates didn't come close to justifying it.
- Rental Property Investor · Clayton, GA · Member since 2020 · 185 posts · 152 votes1y
Quote from @Jon Martin:
Quote from @Mike Anderson:
I live in North GA, but I stand on my front porch and looking into WNC, we are just south of Franklin, i'm in Bryson City all the time as I fish in that area on the regular. I can tell you that my area is struggling too even being in North GA and not having the "stigma" of maybe the hurricane hit my area. It's an economic thing, people have run out of money, Airbnb I think is down over all because of the fee's, and i think some people see Bryson as an effected area.
The other part of it too is simply put there are just too many airbnb's in a lot of these mountain towns now and the market is saturated. The remote worker crowd is in some part back in the office now, or like me moved to the area and not renting. I honestly think it's going to be tough going for awhile I think people over bought too expecting this big revenue and its all dropped off. Just too many of them in a small town.
Agreed. I first saw a photo of Bryson City (never been), where the mountains and river and train tracks all meet in a quaint little town, towards the end of 2021 and thought it would be an incredible place to own an investment property. Even then the purchase prices were inflated and the revenue estimates didn't come close to justifying it.
You should make a trip sometime. Amazing area, quieter side of the Smokies for sure. Surrounding towns Sylva, Cherokee, Waynesville (a little farther) all have cool little small town main streets too. I think like most areas its a tough STR investment right now, but its still an amazing place to visit. - Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1yAbsolutely- it's high on my list!
Quote from @Mike Anderson:
- Lender · Asheville, NC · Member since 2020 · 463 posts · 507 votes1y
@Mike Lattier While I think the misperception that we haven't fully recovered from Helene is still negatively impacting our tourism and STR bookings, and while I think some of the slowdown is partially a reset to pre-pandemic demand, I believe the largest issue at the moment is national and economic, meaning that economic uncertainty, coupled with rising costs and unrelenting interest rates, is causing a severe decline in discretionary spending, especially among those we might deem middle-class according to income, which would apply to most of my past guests in Bryson City.
And I believe the pain might be heightened in BC, compared to other markets, because of the following:
(a) The town is rather a best kept secret compared to others, meaning not well advertised or known. And some of my favorite spots and activities took me quite a few years to find, meaning also not well advertised or known.
(b) A couple other areas 1.5-2.5 hours away, namely east TN and greater Asheville, have much more to offer regarding activities, food options, trail systems, airports, rental cars, you name it. BC and surrounding are quiet options by comparison, which appeals more to me but not my kids, and perhaps not to the majority of people that might vacation in our general region.
(c) The market is super saturated for the visitor count, and especially with cabin style homes.
(d) Many of the properties are second homes where STR income isn't very needed or focused on, as illustrated in lousy listings, low and static nightly rates, etc. And I always felt that compared to many other markets there was a greater frequency of this issue in BC.
I don't say all this to dump on your market. I really love the place, and have vacationed there for many years. Same for you @Kyle H. I mean to say that these factors and perhaps others might cause you to feel STR pain a little more severely than Gatlinburg or Asheville for example, and especially if you have a 2-3 bedroom cabin. For these reasons and others I sold my STR there in 2024.
- Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 27 votes1y
Quote from @Mitch Davidson:
@Mike Lattier While I think the misperception that we haven't fully recovered from Helene is still negatively impacting our tourism and STR bookings, and while I think some of the slowdown is partially a reset to pre-pandemic demand, I believe the largest issue at the moment is national and economic, meaning that economic uncertainty, coupled with rising costs and unrelenting interest rates, is causing a severe decline in discretionary spending, especially among those we might deem middle-class according to income, which would apply to most of my past guests in Bryson City.
And I believe the pain might be heightened in BC, compared to other markets, because of the following:
(a) The town is rather a best kept secret compared to others, meaning not well advertised or known. And some of my favorite spots and activities took me quite a few years to find, meaning also not well advertised or known.
(b) A couple other areas 1.5-2.5 hours away, namely east TN and greater Asheville, have much more to offer regarding activities, food options, trail systems, airports, rental cars, you name it. BC and surrounding are quiet options by comparison, which appeals more to me but not my kids, and perhaps not to the majority of people that might vacation in our general region.
(c) The market is super saturated for the visitor count, and especially with cabin style homes.
(d) Many of the properties are second homes where STR income isn't very needed or focused on, as illustrated in lousy listings, low and static nightly rates, etc. And I always felt that compared to many other markets there was a greater frequency of this issue in BC.
I don't say all this to dump on your market. I really love the place, and have vacationed there for many years. Same for you @Kyle H. I mean to say that these factors and perhaps others might cause you to feel STR pain a little more severely than Gatlinburg or Asheville for example, and especially if you have a 2-3 bedroom cabin. For these reasons and others I sold my STR there in 2024.
I think you hit on alot of the issues. Economic might be more of a factor than it seems. Bryson City is a gorgeous area which we use as a vacation home as well. As some others have said, gonna have to get more creative.
- Rental Property Investor · Arlington, TX · Member since 2016 · 706 posts · 611 votes1y
If you're near an area that can be affected by hurricanes, you should look into diversifying your target audience. It sounds like you would be in an excellent situation for a mid-term rental. What kind of property do you have? Beds, baths, fenced yard? If so, you can even experiment with your listing by trying a 30-day minimum to see if it generates any traction. Always be willing to adjust your strategy, as being OTA-dependent can be risky.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes1y
The biggest reason things are going bad is the economy & the saturation. I've lived in this area for 31 years and all of these towns were nothing towns until about 6 or 7 years ago. I love where I live - I'll never move - but honestly there's nothing special about these "tiny towns" in the mountains. There's a thousand of them around here and most of them aren't even real towns as they're lucky if they have a Piggly Wiggly to get some basic groceries instead of Dollar General. The only reason it even has the motels & hotels is because of Cherokee. Until AirBnb it was best known as the location of the Road to Nowhere; even the locals eventually just accepted a payoff from the feds. Bryson City doesn't even have a population of 2k, it's literally just a wet spot in the road in Swain County. Now it's been about 10 years since I've been in "the town" - the 74 bypass goes around it - and I'm sure they've had some growth but again it's just a middle of nowhere place. Everyone keeps saying "Gateway to the Smokies" but really the entrance on the NC side is north of Cherokee on windy 19 about half an hour away. I would imagine there's a lot of places you can stay closer to the entrance than that around Cherokee.
All in all though you are probably positioned better than some of the North Georgia towns, which are *really* in the middle of nowhere. I remember many years ago my Navy buddies we all had a reunion in Dillard, and there was nothing on top of nothing there. I cut through on 23 when I'm coming home from Florida and there's more stuff these days but it's still in the middle of nowhere.
Skyline Properties- Rental Property Investor · Clayton, GA · Member since 2020 · 185 posts · 152 votes1yI live next to Dillard, in fact the Dillard house i can see from my porch. There is more here now, but we like it quiet! I'm without an hour of lots of places and gorgeous drives and Highlands is only 20 minutes up the mountain. In fact the dillard house got bought and is under a 52 million dollar renovation into a full blown resort. Same issue here though, is the saturation, just too many of them for the reduced amount of travelers, people aren't paying their expenses now after overpaying with expensive loans in 21-23.
Quote from @JD Martin:
All in all though you are probably positioned better than some of the North Georgia towns, which are *really* in the middle of nowhere. I remember many years ago my Navy buddies we all had a reunion in Dillard, and there was nothing on top of nothing there. I cut through on 23 when I'm coming home from Florida and there's more stuff these days but it's still in the middle of nowhere.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @JD Martin:
The biggest reason things are going bad is the economy & the saturation. I've lived in this area for 31 years and all of these towns were nothing towns until about 6 or 7 years ago. I love where I live - I'll never move - but honestly there's nothing special about these "tiny towns" in the mountains. There's a thousand of them around here and most of them aren't even real towns as they're lucky if they have a Piggly Wiggly to get some basic groceries instead of Dollar General. The only reason it even has the motels & hotels is because of Cherokee. Until AirBnb it was best known as the location of the Road to Nowhere; even the locals eventually just accepted a payoff from the feds. Bryson City doesn't even have a population of 2k, it's literally just a wet spot in the road in Swain County. Now it's been about 10 years since I've been in "the town" - the 74 bypass goes around it - and I'm sure they've had some growth but again it's just a middle of nowhere place. Everyone keeps saying "Gateway to the Smokies" but really the entrance on the NC side is north of Cherokee on windy 19 about half an hour away. I would imagine there's a lot of places you can stay closer to the entrance than that around Cherokee.
All in all though you are probably positioned better than some of the North Georgia towns, which are *really* in the middle of nowhere. I remember many years ago my Navy buddies we all had a reunion in Dillard, and there was nothing on top of nothing there. I cut through on 23 when I'm coming home from Florida and there's more stuff these days but it's still in the middle of nowhere.
kind of cracks me up folks description of MIddle of Nowhere.. out here in the west for instance Central to Eastern Oregon and Northern NV.. towns can be 100 miles between them those area real middle of no where places and 300 miles plus to a major city.. out east 300 miles north to south and you have covered multiple states :) - Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @JD Martin:
The biggest reason things are going bad is the economy & the saturation. I've lived in this area for 31 years and all of these towns were nothing towns until about 6 or 7 years ago. I love where I live - I'll never move - but honestly there's nothing special about these "tiny towns" in the mountains. There's a thousand of them around here and most of them aren't even real towns as they're lucky if they have a Piggly Wiggly to get some basic groceries instead of Dollar General. The only reason it even has the motels & hotels is because of Cherokee. Until AirBnb it was best known as the location of the Road to Nowhere; even the locals eventually just accepted a payoff from the feds. Bryson City doesn't even have a population of 2k, it's literally just a wet spot in the road in Swain County. Now it's been about 10 years since I've been in "the town" - the 74 bypass goes around it - and I'm sure they've had some growth but again it's just a middle of nowhere place. Everyone keeps saying "Gateway to the Smokies" but really the entrance on the NC side is north of Cherokee on windy 19 about half an hour away. I would imagine there's a lot of places you can stay closer to the entrance than that around Cherokee.
All in all though you are probably positioned better than some of the North Georgia towns, which are *really* in the middle of nowhere. I remember many years ago my Navy buddies we all had a reunion in Dillard, and there was nothing on top of nothing there. I cut through on 23 when I'm coming home from Florida and there's more stuff these days but it's still in the middle of nowhere.
kind of cracks me up folks description of MIddle of Nowhere.. out here in the west for instance Central to Eastern Oregon and Northern NV.. towns can be 100 miles between them those area real middle of no where places and 300 miles plus to a major city.. out east 300 miles north to south and you have covered multiple states :)Haha, true - but everything is relative. Out here in the mountains you can be 10 miles away as the crow flies and it can be a 30-40 minute drive depending on the condition of the roads. It's not just distance that makes it "the middle of nowhere". It may not be Nevada middle of nowhere but it's our middle of nowhere :)
Skyline Properties
- Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Overall, it seems that the destinations that blew up during the pandemic (Joshua Tree, Smokies, mountain NC) are seeing the harshest corrections, while many other markets are doing well, or at least cash flow positive because of lower entry prices. People flocked to them because that was the only/best option for travel at the time.
Anecdotally as someone who lives in California, I went to Joshua Tree and Palm Springs for the first time in my life during the pandemic . . . And haven't been back! Not because it isn't a nice place, more so that there are so many options and part of the fun of travel is experiencing new places.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Jon Martin:
Overall, it seems that the destinations that blew up during the pandemic (Joshua Tree, Smokies, mountain NC) are seeing the harshest corrections, while many other markets are doing well, or at least cash flow positive because of lower entry prices. People flocked to them because that was the only/best option for travel at the time.
Anecdotally as someone who lives in California, I went to Joshua Tree and Palm Springs for the first time in my life during the pandemic . . . And haven't been back! Not because it isn't a nice place, more so that there are so many options and part of the fun of travel is experiencing new places.
also keep in mind top to bottom in CA is like NYC to Florida .. you cover a lot of ground out east and in CA you never even leave the state.. there really is Nothing like CA when it comes to geographic variety nowhere even close..
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