VRBO's vs Air B&B's? Your thoughts and experiences?

VRBO's vs Air B&B's? Your thoughts and experiences?

Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes

Anyone have any hands on experience as

guests/clients or your own vacation rental investments?

I'm anxious to hear from folks who've had personal hands on experience with both. We will be expanding our vacation propertyportfolio and are curious to know which may be the better choice for the quality of clientele/guests, ROI and ease of managing.

I've heard various opinions about how difficult it is to schedule both without some degree of conflict and/or confusion and found some very interesting opinions, attitudes and philosophies about this cottage industry that just seems to be getting bigger, better and more successful by the year.

I do realize that there are a lot of municipalities and neighborhoods protected by HOA's and CC&R's who are resisting this movement in much the same manner that taxi drivers are resisting UBER and LYFT, however, it doesn't seem to be slowing it down let alone stopping it.

I understand and empathize with this dilemma inasmuch as it does pose certain problems and tends to disturb the status-quo of otherwise quiet residential family communities and that has to be addressed and dealt with.

However, in destination tourist and vacation communities it's a train that's already left the station and there's no turning back albeit there will be a price to pay in the way of Transient Occupancy Tax (TOT) on the rack rates for this type of rental activity. This is only fair and to be expected.

I personally don't have a problem kicking my fair share into the kitty. After all it is a business for profit and participating and accepting communities should be allowed to derive some benefit for this privilege.

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Specialist · Bozeman, MT · Member since 2016 · 237 posts · 153 votes
9y

We have had great success with AirBnB and VRBO this past summer. We manage one vacation rental full-time, and are remodeling another unit by next summer to function as a vacation rental. My market is seasonal, but I operate full-time, and do well. I am also legal in my area, which gives me a leg up in terms of advertising. MANY others are not legal in my town, and try to hide their rentals from the city.

To try to touch on some of the questions here, I'll just give a broad explanation to the many questions in this thread.

1. Managing your property yourself will make you FAR more money (about 30% more). You will benefit from the cleaning fees, and other fees from the internet booking sites. You need to have excellent reviews, and a PM just will not care as much about your property as you do.

2. You need to have those 5 star reviews. When we first started, our price just couldn't be beat, but we had some VERY skeptical first bookings... It was tough. You are competing with other properties with 5 star reviews. Make sure you focus on customer service, as this level of real estate is way more customer service oriented than what a traditional PM will offer you.

3. You definitely want to have your property on AirBnB or VRBO rather than directly marketing yourself. Let me explain what I've been through thus far. So 100% of our bookings are from VRBO and AirBnB (30:70% respectively). I do maintain a professional website, where a customer can go and learn just about anything about my property, and view open dates and even link to a booking page. To promote this site, I spent about $600 on Google Adwords, and did a great job with SEO. I got thousands of hits, but not one booking! I would suggest using the power of SEO through AirBnB and VRBO. They spend millions of dollars on SEO, and marketing, and they are trusted. Just my 5 cents.

4. If you hire a PM, you will make far less money, and have reviews which are lacking. With that said, we reaaaallly need a vacation. It has been non-stop for us since last May, and we are pretty booked up for winter. Next summer we will have two units, and will need to hire a full time cleaner. This leaves no time for relaxation and rest, even though we work from home! Subsequently, we have checked out our options, and we have come up with 2 ways to have our property managed right, while going away for extended periods of time. One option is to have someone other vacation property owner stay in your home, while you stay in theirs. There's actually websites out there where people make arrangements like this. This is what we will do, but is not applicable to the investors out there looking for a hands off approach. The other approach is to have a caretaker. Either let them live in one unit, or build an ADU or set aside a bedroom for a caretaker. Many people will do this for very little compensation, or for free in exchange for room in some markets. I'm all about PM companies in some situations, but I don't think a vacation rental will shine unless a company which specializes in these types of properties is hired. And then be ready to see your profit just dwindle away... They just never seem to be able to get 80-100% occupancy.

5. There is way more maintenance than you would imagine. We just remodeled our vacation rental last spring, and it needs new paint, and new entry floor already. I'm also constantly dealing with either ice and snow in the winter, or landscaping during the rest of the year. This is in fact another home, and that is how it is advertised, and so that is what the customer expects. If you don't already own a home, you will shocked at how much maintenance is needed. If you don't learn this yourself, and then hire a PM to manage it, don't expect to make any money. The only time I hire someone is when I need electrical or something dangerous done.

6. There's two basic ways to manage your vaca rental. One is like a mom-and-pop deal. This is how we run our place (although I am a full-time real estate agent and investor). It is a lot of work, and a way of life. I do still have time for real estate sales, but I would never be able to hold a full-time job and do this at the same time. Certain jobs will mesh very well with this lifestyle. I think any work from home job where you set your own hours will be an awesome match with this lifestyle. If you have to be at your job in a set schedule, it may not work for you, because we've had things pop up at all hours of the day. 

The other way to run it, is to get it managed, and just be totally hands off. I talked about that above, so you can read that again to get an idea of what it's like.

7. The pay is excellent. If you're in the right market, you will be able to make a living from this. You also get to stay home with your family, which I will be forever grateful for. It is wonderful to not pay for childcare, be at home with your kids, and be able to stay on top of all projects around the house. Do not expect a moment's rest though. If you had some sort of romantic notion about doing this for a living, dispel that right now. A good cleaner friend is a huge advantage! It can be grimy sometimes, and at other times you will need to have a thick skin when dealing with renters. As a landlord for 10 years and property manager for 20, this is nothing like either of those two ways of real estate management. Much more customer service oriented. 

Hope that helps! 

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  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    9y

    I use Homeaway.com  (parent company of VRBO) and AirBnB.

    Homeaway is far better for vacation rentals in my experience. Homeaway keeps my Lake house full!  I think AirBnB is still associated with renting rooms and has not done very well for my rental. The vacation crowd has been in their 50s with families. It seems AirBnB is more for the younger crowd.

    This is just based on my experience running my own VRBO.

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    That's exactly the type of input I'm seeking @John Underwood. Didn't know anything about Homeaway to be honest. I thought I just heard that Expedia acquired VRBO and that they are going to start charging another 6 percent to their clientele.

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    9y

    As a consumer....I typically look on VRBO when Im looking to rent things like lake houses. I look on Air BnB when Im looking to rent say a room or apartment in a major city. I do see a lot of properties listed on both. I prefer the VRBO interface.

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    Good to know @Russell Brazil. We just had two very successful Air B&B experiences. One for 1 week and  and another one for 4 days. They actually left on January 30th instead of New Years Day which I though a bit unusual. Thought they'd want it especially for New Years Eve.  It sleeps 10 comfortably so it has some appeal for large families which might be why they decided to leave before the 31st and not have to deal with all the excitement then traffic.

    We've also had some very good experiences with VRBO. This is our first year in the vacation rental arena albeit we have had years of experiences with long term rentals this started out as an experiment but I think we're onto something. The class of clientele we've received from both entities has been exemplary. 

  • Investor · Shelton, CT · Member since 2016 · 218 posts · 225 votes
    9y
    John Arendsen I'm going to tell you the exact opposite and say that Airbnb has given me greater success for my VR in Gatlinburg, TN. In fact I use Airbnb, VRBO, and TripAdvisor/Flipkey with VRBO coming in a distant 3rd place. I find it amazing how often I hear people say Airbnb is for younger people or people looking for just a room because, again with me, just the opposite. Tons of families and older couples. I think it all depends on the market and the quality host you'd like to be. I personally think Airbnb has hands down the best platform of the 3 and their mobile app is kick butt compared to the other 2. In fact VRBO's mobile app is almost embarrassing. I run my whole business from my iPhone and am really thankful VRBO is coming in 3rd to be honest with you. Good luck!
  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 533 posts · 433 votes
    9y

    @John Arendsen In all honesty I think it varies by location and I'm also seeing a generational preference between the two - not from just the guests but from the hosts (just take a quick look at who else has replied to your inquiry (inclusive of me).  I get a lot of millennials/X-Gens at my rental that is a bit more hip and groovy - closer to the "action", whereas I tend to get a bit older crowd at my place that is quieter and more family oriented.  Financially, there is a negligible financial difference for me between, though a significant difference for direct bookings.  I would be happy to share some of these differences with you if you want to PM me.  As for ease of use, again negligible differences.  I would recommend testing both platforms for your market and see how they each fair.  

    Cheers,

    Mike

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    Hi @Michael Greenberg Thanks for your feedback and participation in this thread. Glad to know there's so many folk on BP that are so well versed on this pervasively growing growth industry. Looks as though we have the potential to cater to both of the demos you've put forth due to the very popular surf and beach culture Oceanside as a vacation destination caters to.

    That stated, our particular property is somewhat pricey for the average hipster unless they have a large group to pool expenses with which we've been fortunate not to have to deal with as yet. Having the ability to sleep 10 comfortably with 2 master bedrooms and 2 smaller bedrooms all with multiple bedding options and the fact that it's a very nice property really attacks families thus far. 

    But I'm definitely not a newly to rental properties as we've been our own property managers for a couple of decades now. It's really all about the vetting process and leaving it up to a 3rd party i.e. VRBO and Air B&B to you're putting your faith in.

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    Thanks for the info on TripAdvisor/Tripkey @Jeff Piscioniere. Didn't even think about going there because we've been having such success with AB&B and VRBO when we are offering our beach home as a vacation rental.

    It started out as a vacation property for our 5 children and 14 grandchildren and my wife and I to all share at our leisure. However, we soon realized that as big as our family is we're not using the property to its full capacity so that's when our daughter, who is also our property manager with with our long term rent/least portfolio, introduced the idea of the vacation rental concept. But I'm really getting so much great into about this budding industry that we're looking for additional properties.

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 533 posts · 433 votes
    9y

    @John Arendsen Interesting the word "faith" and honestly I am somewhat leary of all of them - hence the reason why I take direct bookings and look to expand in that direction.  If you read recent press about Airbnb's direction it causes me concern about "who's guest is it anyway?"  and not just from the vetting process but from the experience as a whole.  I originally thought the same about "hipster" vs. "seasoned" (since I can't think of a better term) revenue would trend more towards the seasoned guest, but I was wrong.  My "hipster" place has drawn more revenue at a slightly higher nightly rate which leads me to "what else besides price as the driving force"? From the reviews I have received - location, location, location, no different than any other real estate investment appears to be the common theme.

  • Investor · Shelton, CT · Member since 2016 · 218 posts · 225 votes
    9y
    John Arendsen FYI, I get at least 3X the views of my listing with TripAdvisor/Flipkey vs Airbnb. I still get more bookings with Airbnb but it is approaching 50/50. The fees to the guests, and to a lesser extent the host, are ever so slightly higher with TripAdvisor/Flipkey. What annoys me with TripAdvisor/Flipkey is that clearly from an inquiring prospective guests side of the site they cannot see what all the fees and total cost will equal so you get incessant questions like "What's your rate for such in such?" Or "What's the total cost for my stay?" I think they need to be more clear on what they might pay prior to wasting my time answering questions like that. Additionally, it seems that TripAdvisor/Flipkey is populated more with bargain hunters with more frequent questions about offering discounts and way too many responses to inquiries never even are reciprocated with a thank you. Bottom line from a business standpoint is that I'd be foolish to not put my listing in front of all those VR seeking eyes.
  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    Well, @Michael Greenberg, at 71 I'm not likely to change my basic belief about faith or honesty in humanity at this point of my life. Not to get off on a philosophical bent but I've always been of the opinion that people are born basically honest and stray off the path for one reason or another as a result life altering experiences and exposure. 

    But I digress. I am open minded and eager to learn so if you have some information I could refer to regarding 

    "If you read recent press about Airbnb's direction" I'd be happy it causes me concern about "who's guest is it anyway?"

    I'd be very happy to know about it. Albeit I'm by no means new to investing and managing long term rental properties I am a relative neophyte to the vacation rental niche and am eager to learn everything I can before investing further.

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 533 posts · 433 votes
    9y

    Still a spring chicken @John Arendsen :-)  I'm in my 50's and have similar personal beliefs but "corporate" beliefs are a different animal.  Nevertheless, a good source of info for these news outlets are #Twitter (can be overwhelming though), #VRMB (a private group of vacation rental managers run by Matt Landau (smart cookie), #VRMA, and a LinkedIn Group called Vacation Rental Managers.  I'm open and eager as well so if you have other sources I'm all ears.

    Mike

  • Miramar Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Does anyone have any suggestions for marketing directly - without going through VBO, AirBNB, etc?

  • Real Estate Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2015 · 13 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    @Jeff Piscioniere I'm actively looking at buying a couple places in Gatlinburg and managing remotely from Hawaii or Tx. Can I get your thoughts please?

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    Until venturing into Vacation Rentals we've always managed our own portfolio and will continue to do so in the VR arena as well @Michael Wind for a variety of reasons.

    1. We're a licensed RE broker
    2. Genera Contractor
    3. Investor
    4. Only invest in local properties that we can easily manage
    5. Don't really trust most PM's 
    6. Enjoy realizing the maximum amount of ROI we realize doing it this way.
    7. Being our own PM helps us keep our eye on the ball at all times thus very intimately vested in our properties and able to arise to any occasion anytime.

    Add to that we've had some experience in being owners in abstentia with not to positive results. As a matter of fact it was a property in Florida. Being in California made it almost impossible to deal with reliable PM's and maintenance issues. We were always at the mercy of people we didn't know. Believe me one of the best days of our lives was offing that property and keeping it local.

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    BTW, @Michael Wind here's some info that @Michael Greenberg just shared with me. Perhaps that will help. I'll be heading over there right now myself.

    #Twitter (can be overwhelming though), #VRMB (a private group of vacation rental managers run by Matt Landau (smart cookie), #VRMA, and a LinkedIn Group called Vacation Rental Managers.

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    @Francisco Arango, take a moment to check out my comment to @Michael Wind. I was actually thinking about investing in HA but dismissed the notion for the same reasons as above. We are frequent visitor to the Islands and tried to justify it accordingly, however, we'd still be owners in abstentia. We frequent Cabo multiple times a year because it's only a 2 hr flight away and the surf and water temps are as good as in the Islands for the most par. But we still love HA.

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 533 posts · 433 votes
    9y

    @Michael Wind IMO there is a very strong argument for VR independence but there is a LOT to do and I'm about 1/4 the way through my checklist, e.g. website, SEO, marketing, booking, financial modeling etc....  I would really recommend #VRMB as @John Arendsen kindly shared above.  I am joining this group in the new year as I am such a strong believer in communal sharing for the benefit of all and I like being held accountable by my peers.  

  • Investor · Shelton, CT · Member since 2016 · 218 posts · 225 votes
    9y
    Francisco Arango I would love to chat with you about Gatlinburg! Send me a PM and we can find some time to connect.
  • Real Estate Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2015 · 13 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    @John Arendsen Thank you, I understand that is a possibility. But, I believe theres a solution to that, and I want to make that solution a process I can repeat over in different markets. I have 4 here in HI and I'm never there and might as well be remote. 

    Maybe I should make a blog on my experiences?

    I'm bout to close on 4 units in Galveston, TX, we are very close in price.

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    A blog with some hands on experience may be helpful @Francisco Arango. I'd love to hear about your experiences.

  • Real Estate Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2015 · 13 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    @Jeff Piscioniere I can't see to PM you. Maybe you need to accept my connect request? I'm able to PM others.

  • Investor · Shelton, CT · Member since 2016 · 218 posts · 225 votes
    9y
    Francisco Arango True connection request granted!
  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @John Arendsen , for what it's worth, AirBNB has been great for me for just a normal house in a bigger city. I can't speak for true vacation rentals, but I was easily able to get 2x revenue from long term, and was consistently booked at 80% occupancy every month. I only had 2 vacant days between April and August each year for the past two years. 

    For those trying to self market their VR, how do you plan on dealing with damage/liability? I've had to deal with Airbnb's 'host guarantee' a couple times, and it's painless and they pay out within days of receiving all documentation. I love the idea of cutting out the middle man.

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    That's a great question @Kevin Shuler, however, wouldn't deal with it in much the same manner as you would a long term furnished rental with a well covered contents policy? 

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