VRBO's vs Air B&B's? Your thoughts and experiences?

VRBO's vs Air B&B's? Your thoughts and experiences?

Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes

Anyone have any hands on experience as

guests/clients or your own vacation rental investments?

I'm anxious to hear from folks who've had personal hands on experience with both. We will be expanding our vacation propertyportfolio and are curious to know which may be the better choice for the quality of clientele/guests, ROI and ease of managing.

I've heard various opinions about how difficult it is to schedule both without some degree of conflict and/or confusion and found some very interesting opinions, attitudes and philosophies about this cottage industry that just seems to be getting bigger, better and more successful by the year.

I do realize that there are a lot of municipalities and neighborhoods protected by HOA's and CC&R's who are resisting this movement in much the same manner that taxi drivers are resisting UBER and LYFT, however, it doesn't seem to be slowing it down let alone stopping it.

I understand and empathize with this dilemma inasmuch as it does pose certain problems and tends to disturb the status-quo of otherwise quiet residential family communities and that has to be addressed and dealt with.

However, in destination tourist and vacation communities it's a train that's already left the station and there's no turning back albeit there will be a price to pay in the way of Transient Occupancy Tax (TOT) on the rack rates for this type of rental activity. This is only fair and to be expected.

I personally don't have a problem kicking my fair share into the kitty. After all it is a business for profit and participating and accepting communities should be allowed to derive some benefit for this privilege.

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Specialist · Bozeman, MT · Member since 2016 · 237 posts · 153 votes
9y

We have had great success with AirBnB and VRBO this past summer. We manage one vacation rental full-time, and are remodeling another unit by next summer to function as a vacation rental. My market is seasonal, but I operate full-time, and do well. I am also legal in my area, which gives me a leg up in terms of advertising. MANY others are not legal in my town, and try to hide their rentals from the city.

To try to touch on some of the questions here, I'll just give a broad explanation to the many questions in this thread.

1. Managing your property yourself will make you FAR more money (about 30% more). You will benefit from the cleaning fees, and other fees from the internet booking sites. You need to have excellent reviews, and a PM just will not care as much about your property as you do.

2. You need to have those 5 star reviews. When we first started, our price just couldn't be beat, but we had some VERY skeptical first bookings... It was tough. You are competing with other properties with 5 star reviews. Make sure you focus on customer service, as this level of real estate is way more customer service oriented than what a traditional PM will offer you.

3. You definitely want to have your property on AirBnB or VRBO rather than directly marketing yourself. Let me explain what I've been through thus far. So 100% of our bookings are from VRBO and AirBnB (30:70% respectively). I do maintain a professional website, where a customer can go and learn just about anything about my property, and view open dates and even link to a booking page. To promote this site, I spent about $600 on Google Adwords, and did a great job with SEO. I got thousands of hits, but not one booking! I would suggest using the power of SEO through AirBnB and VRBO. They spend millions of dollars on SEO, and marketing, and they are trusted. Just my 5 cents.

4. If you hire a PM, you will make far less money, and have reviews which are lacking. With that said, we reaaaallly need a vacation. It has been non-stop for us since last May, and we are pretty booked up for winter. Next summer we will have two units, and will need to hire a full time cleaner. This leaves no time for relaxation and rest, even though we work from home! Subsequently, we have checked out our options, and we have come up with 2 ways to have our property managed right, while going away for extended periods of time. One option is to have someone other vacation property owner stay in your home, while you stay in theirs. There's actually websites out there where people make arrangements like this. This is what we will do, but is not applicable to the investors out there looking for a hands off approach. The other approach is to have a caretaker. Either let them live in one unit, or build an ADU or set aside a bedroom for a caretaker. Many people will do this for very little compensation, or for free in exchange for room in some markets. I'm all about PM companies in some situations, but I don't think a vacation rental will shine unless a company which specializes in these types of properties is hired. And then be ready to see your profit just dwindle away... They just never seem to be able to get 80-100% occupancy.

5. There is way more maintenance than you would imagine. We just remodeled our vacation rental last spring, and it needs new paint, and new entry floor already. I'm also constantly dealing with either ice and snow in the winter, or landscaping during the rest of the year. This is in fact another home, and that is how it is advertised, and so that is what the customer expects. If you don't already own a home, you will shocked at how much maintenance is needed. If you don't learn this yourself, and then hire a PM to manage it, don't expect to make any money. The only time I hire someone is when I need electrical or something dangerous done.

6. There's two basic ways to manage your vaca rental. One is like a mom-and-pop deal. This is how we run our place (although I am a full-time real estate agent and investor). It is a lot of work, and a way of life. I do still have time for real estate sales, but I would never be able to hold a full-time job and do this at the same time. Certain jobs will mesh very well with this lifestyle. I think any work from home job where you set your own hours will be an awesome match with this lifestyle. If you have to be at your job in a set schedule, it may not work for you, because we've had things pop up at all hours of the day. 

The other way to run it, is to get it managed, and just be totally hands off. I talked about that above, so you can read that again to get an idea of what it's like.

7. The pay is excellent. If you're in the right market, you will be able to make a living from this. You also get to stay home with your family, which I will be forever grateful for. It is wonderful to not pay for childcare, be at home with your kids, and be able to stay on top of all projects around the house. Do not expect a moment's rest though. If you had some sort of romantic notion about doing this for a living, dispel that right now. A good cleaner friend is a huge advantage! It can be grimy sometimes, and at other times you will need to have a thick skin when dealing with renters. As a landlord for 10 years and property manager for 20, this is nothing like either of those two ways of real estate management. Much more customer service oriented. 

Hope that helps! 

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  • Lender · Marion, IA · Member since 2014 · 59 posts · 27 votes
    9y

    Vrbo/Homeaway about 90% of inquiries

    Flipkey/tripadvisor about 9% of inquires

    Airbnb 1% at most

  • Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 19 votes
    9y

    Thanks everyone for all the great info. I'm looking to turn a condo in AZ into a VR. I may have missed it but, do these programs (Airbnb, VRBO) interface at all with reservations? When a property is booked on Airbnb, do you have to go in and block the dates off on the other sites it's listed on?

  • Real Estate Agent · Colorado | stan.store/JamesCarlson · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    Hey @Ryan Hilbun. You can sync calendars on both platforms to make life easier. I could try to explain here, but just google it, and you'll find the answer. I know @Michael Greenberg's got a place or two down in Arizona -- Scottsdale, even, I believe. You might touch base with him about the market. 

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 533 posts · 433 votes
    9y

    @Ryan Hilbun Hi Ryan and thanks @James Carlson for the intro.  I have two properties in Scottsdale and it's been quite fruitful.  Good timing for you as well since it's high season.  You can sync this two.  On Airbnb under availabilty settings scroll all the way down and select sync calendars.  You can also do this the other way with VRBO.  Pretty self explanatory but just hit the "help" on both sites if you're still having trouble.  I then sync them both to Google Calendar so I have one place to view my calendar.  Works like a champ.  PM me if you want to connect and chat more about AZ.

    Mike

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    Wow! Loving the networking here and really learning a lot by the post. Thanks @James Carlson, @Ryan Hilbun, @Rick Hernandez and especially @Waverly Rennie for such great contributions and suggestions. I'm going to copy and paste these and email them to my daughter. Hope to continue this upbeat dialogue. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2016 · 17 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    I use a Scottsdale based company to manage my VR. If anyone needs a referral I'm happy to pass along their information. They handle everything and I trust them. 

  • Ridgewood, NY · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    AirB&B has been great for us. Simply doing all the bookings over the phone. Super easy. Hands down the best platform and customer service. 

  • Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 19 votes
    9y

    @James Carlson thanks for the info. @Michael Greenberg I tried to PM you but it wouldn't go through for some reason. I'd love to hear more about your VR's. 

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 533 posts · 433 votes
    9y

    @Ryan Hilbun Google me at thejetsethost (all one word) and you'll find my website, my number and the email address at the top of the page redirects to me.  Look forward to hearing from you.

    Mike

  • Real Estate Investor · Spring Branch, TX · Member since 2016 · 31 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    Sorry, but what platform is the #vrmb on?? I have one rental that I just bought in Rockport, TX.  I haven't started renting out yet.  I'm in the process of buying furnishings right now. Would love to connect with other vacation rental owners.  Thank you! and good luck to all! 

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    On a cautionary note @Alison Kothmann don't go overboard furnishings because even if your guests are user friendly to them they will be getting a lot more ware and tare then usual and will need to be replace and/or refurbished more often.

    We purchased our beach row house in Oceanside, CA less than a year ago and fortunately furnished it with furnishings we had in storage from other rental properties we rent long term and from my daughter who is an interior designer and has a warehouse full of designer furnishings that were left overs or mis orders from previous projects. 

    In fact you may want to reach out to some of the designers in your area as the real busy and successful ones always seem to have a lot of items sitting around after major projects. Just a thought

  • Real Estate Investor · Spring Branch, TX · Member since 2016 · 31 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @John Arendsen, Thank you so much! Great thought and I am on it! 

  • Property Manager · Mammoth Lakes, CA · Member since 2014 · 263 posts · 230 votes
    9y

    @John Arendsen I'm in the same boat with @Kevin Shuler, We use Airbnb exclusively and normally have between 2-4 vacant days a month. I love Airbnb as both a host and a guest and use it frequently when I travel myself.

    I do think which platform you use depends a lot on where you are and the type of guest you are marketing to. Airbnb is really huge internationally, and here in Mammoth we have probably 85% international guests during the summer and a huge precentage from large cities like LA and San Francisco in the winter. We feel no need to try TripAdvisor or VRBO even though they might attract a different clientele just because we are SO booked as it is!

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    Wow! @Shelby Pracht we need to start networking with each other. I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours..................................Just saying.

  • Wholesaler · Cancun, Quintana Roo · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    Hi Guys,

    I understand that for most conservative buyers it sounds like a good idea to buy rental in the US, florida etc. But I will advise to broaden your mind. Cancun for example has 20 million visitors per year, you can get alot for your buck and the airbnb/ rentals are booming, more demand than offer.... 

    A property in Cancun will go pay itself in monthly rentals in less than 8 years if chosen wisely. If you start putting in ait of work and put it on airbnb etc... you could be looking at 5-6 years not including costs to have a property manager, etc...

    Find someone that knows the market, laws, language and that basically gives you access to that market. Because if looking for real profilt and capital gain which I think most of us are, the US is no longer the number 1 place.

    If any of you guys need further info on the matter I will be happy to offer assistance.

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    @Benjamin Brasher,I agree to an extent that America is expensive RE. However, as a very small fish in a very huge sea I'm quite comfortable keeping it local and managing every detail though our family owned management, maintenance and construction team. That stated there's nothing to keep us from the possibility of trading our properties with other VRBO and Air B&B owners for our own personal use whence traveling.

  • Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 273 posts · 217 votes
    9y

    @Benjamin Brasher On the flip side, while the property is cheaper (maybe) the cost of the sale seems to go up in a lot of countries (cost of a trust in Mexico, for example, is pretty big and annual). 

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    @Blair Russell, Spot on! I'll keep my Mexican ownership to the private club we belong to in Cabo and visit multiple times a year.

  • Wholesaler · Cancun, Quintana Roo · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    Fair enough people, 

    And agreed 100% if you don't know the market well enough or simply as @John Arendsen said feel more comfortable in investing localy for management and proximity purposes I understand and investing in aplace like Cancun is not for you. 

    However when you there are organizations specialized in making these things easier for people in zones like Cancun, Dubai, Panama, etc.. where the market is explosing! 

    And with a moment with a record high dollar it is definitely the time to move for those willing to make the step. 3 years ago it was 12 pesos to the dollar, as of today it is 21.5... These things make a difference and the big guys in Real Estate see and have been taking action out of the comfort zone which is the US.

    To answer to Blair, There is a fideicomiso de zone restringidas, it does cost money but remember these zones are looking for international investors and if you fit the shoe that cost will be handled by the company. Once again it all comes down to knowing the market and the right people.

    My mentor would say, if you are following the example of the most successfull you are on the right track, in this case I believe stepping out of the US at this time is a prime example of this. When companies like Credit Suisse and Generali are buying over 250 million USD in 2016 of mexican forclosure real estate I trust them to know what they are doing. (granted this is a different topic than just VRBO and Airbnb but the principle is there) 

    Good luck to all wherever you are investing, i wish you the best !

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    @Benjamin Brasher this is definitely a wait and see with respect to Mexico. With the advent of the USA allowing companies to repatriate their holdings back to America with minimal and/or no penalties and a much lower corporate tax rate along with other Trump driven incentives you might see the peso tanking a lot more before it's all over thereby making investing in Mexico even a better opportunity in the near future.

    I'm not a newbie when it comes to Mexico given that I'm a San Diego surfer who's surfed just about every beach where there's waves all throughout the Country and having been a former and current investor in Mexican real estate investments.

    I'm very unsettled with the fact that you can't own the dirt in Mexico and I don't believe in any long term security from them or any other Latin, Middle Eastern or Far Eastern Countries. At 71 I've seen too many foreign countries Nationalize thereby claiming all foreign investments and assets as theirs. In this very volatile and transitioning international atmosphere I won't leave anything to chance.   

    Conversely, however, we may see the American economy rekindling a huge comeback leading to major offshore interests starting to make even bigger plays for US real estate and business opportunities. Contrary to your thoughts I think it's the tip of the iceberg and a prime time to invest in America.

    My humble 3 cents worth adjusted for inflation.

  • Wholesaler · Cancun, Quintana Roo · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    @John Arendsen, Definitely appreciate your information and experience. 

    Your humble worth adjusted for inflation definitely made me smile ! 

    I think to be very honest every country or most anyway, US included have some great opportunities when you know where to look. Contrary to what you said I'm not saying the US is not in great shape at this time for real estate investments, however it is definitely not a winner when coming to investing to airbnb or vrbo and that is just comparing apples to apples in ROIs.

    I fully understand your concern about not fully owning the land however if you chose place over 70km away from the ocean you can. Monterrey for example is an industrial city near the border where the ROI and demand is huge in residential properties between 50 and 100 thousand USD.

    Best regards

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    @Benjamin Brasher All I can tell you is from my own personal hands on day to day experience with our inventory the ROI couldn't get any better. We keep our beach properties occupied as much or as little as we want to.

    If we want to reserve it for ourselves, family members or friends we can do so. If we wanted to given our respective locations we could book pretty close to 100%. San Diego is a year around much sought after vacation destination. 

    We get the 'Snowbirds' from Canada and the colder states and countries and the 'Zonies' from Arizona, Nevada and the Cali deserts in the summer. In between we get the horse race crowd and the County Fair folks.  There's just never a dull moment in this neck of the woods and I only seeing it getting better.

    But I'm very happy to know what's going on down south as well. My wife and I are very fond of Mexico and their people. It's a great place to vacation and you can't beat the surfing and fishing. Best part is Cabo is just a two hour flight from TJ San Diego's newest and best international airport till everyone starts finding out about it.

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