VRBO's vs Air B&B's? Your thoughts and experiences?

VRBO's vs Air B&B's? Your thoughts and experiences?

Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes

Anyone have any hands on experience as

guests/clients or your own vacation rental investments?

I'm anxious to hear from folks who've had personal hands on experience with both. We will be expanding our vacation propertyportfolio and are curious to know which may be the better choice for the quality of clientele/guests, ROI and ease of managing.

I've heard various opinions about how difficult it is to schedule both without some degree of conflict and/or confusion and found some very interesting opinions, attitudes and philosophies about this cottage industry that just seems to be getting bigger, better and more successful by the year.

I do realize that there are a lot of municipalities and neighborhoods protected by HOA's and CC&R's who are resisting this movement in much the same manner that taxi drivers are resisting UBER and LYFT, however, it doesn't seem to be slowing it down let alone stopping it.

I understand and empathize with this dilemma inasmuch as it does pose certain problems and tends to disturb the status-quo of otherwise quiet residential family communities and that has to be addressed and dealt with.

However, in destination tourist and vacation communities it's a train that's already left the station and there's no turning back albeit there will be a price to pay in the way of Transient Occupancy Tax (TOT) on the rack rates for this type of rental activity. This is only fair and to be expected.

I personally don't have a problem kicking my fair share into the kitty. After all it is a business for profit and participating and accepting communities should be allowed to derive some benefit for this privilege.

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Specialist · Bozeman, MT · Member since 2016 · 237 posts · 153 votes
9y

We have had great success with AirBnB and VRBO this past summer. We manage one vacation rental full-time, and are remodeling another unit by next summer to function as a vacation rental. My market is seasonal, but I operate full-time, and do well. I am also legal in my area, which gives me a leg up in terms of advertising. MANY others are not legal in my town, and try to hide their rentals from the city.

To try to touch on some of the questions here, I'll just give a broad explanation to the many questions in this thread.

1. Managing your property yourself will make you FAR more money (about 30% more). You will benefit from the cleaning fees, and other fees from the internet booking sites. You need to have excellent reviews, and a PM just will not care as much about your property as you do.

2. You need to have those 5 star reviews. When we first started, our price just couldn't be beat, but we had some VERY skeptical first bookings... It was tough. You are competing with other properties with 5 star reviews. Make sure you focus on customer service, as this level of real estate is way more customer service oriented than what a traditional PM will offer you.

3. You definitely want to have your property on AirBnB or VRBO rather than directly marketing yourself. Let me explain what I've been through thus far. So 100% of our bookings are from VRBO and AirBnB (30:70% respectively). I do maintain a professional website, where a customer can go and learn just about anything about my property, and view open dates and even link to a booking page. To promote this site, I spent about $600 on Google Adwords, and did a great job with SEO. I got thousands of hits, but not one booking! I would suggest using the power of SEO through AirBnB and VRBO. They spend millions of dollars on SEO, and marketing, and they are trusted. Just my 5 cents.

4. If you hire a PM, you will make far less money, and have reviews which are lacking. With that said, we reaaaallly need a vacation. It has been non-stop for us since last May, and we are pretty booked up for winter. Next summer we will have two units, and will need to hire a full time cleaner. This leaves no time for relaxation and rest, even though we work from home! Subsequently, we have checked out our options, and we have come up with 2 ways to have our property managed right, while going away for extended periods of time. One option is to have someone other vacation property owner stay in your home, while you stay in theirs. There's actually websites out there where people make arrangements like this. This is what we will do, but is not applicable to the investors out there looking for a hands off approach. The other approach is to have a caretaker. Either let them live in one unit, or build an ADU or set aside a bedroom for a caretaker. Many people will do this for very little compensation, or for free in exchange for room in some markets. I'm all about PM companies in some situations, but I don't think a vacation rental will shine unless a company which specializes in these types of properties is hired. And then be ready to see your profit just dwindle away... They just never seem to be able to get 80-100% occupancy.

5. There is way more maintenance than you would imagine. We just remodeled our vacation rental last spring, and it needs new paint, and new entry floor already. I'm also constantly dealing with either ice and snow in the winter, or landscaping during the rest of the year. This is in fact another home, and that is how it is advertised, and so that is what the customer expects. If you don't already own a home, you will shocked at how much maintenance is needed. If you don't learn this yourself, and then hire a PM to manage it, don't expect to make any money. The only time I hire someone is when I need electrical or something dangerous done.

6. There's two basic ways to manage your vaca rental. One is like a mom-and-pop deal. This is how we run our place (although I am a full-time real estate agent and investor). It is a lot of work, and a way of life. I do still have time for real estate sales, but I would never be able to hold a full-time job and do this at the same time. Certain jobs will mesh very well with this lifestyle. I think any work from home job where you set your own hours will be an awesome match with this lifestyle. If you have to be at your job in a set schedule, it may not work for you, because we've had things pop up at all hours of the day. 

The other way to run it, is to get it managed, and just be totally hands off. I talked about that above, so you can read that again to get an idea of what it's like.

7. The pay is excellent. If you're in the right market, you will be able to make a living from this. You also get to stay home with your family, which I will be forever grateful for. It is wonderful to not pay for childcare, be at home with your kids, and be able to stay on top of all projects around the house. Do not expect a moment's rest though. If you had some sort of romantic notion about doing this for a living, dispel that right now. A good cleaner friend is a huge advantage! It can be grimy sometimes, and at other times you will need to have a thick skin when dealing with renters. As a landlord for 10 years and property manager for 20, this is nothing like either of those two ways of real estate management. Much more customer service oriented. 

Hope that helps! 

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  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed, no prob with my mortgage ins as we have no mortgages on any of our properties. But you do raise a very valid point re: short term rentals. In fact I recall my insurance agent specifically asking me if we were doing that. At the time we weren't because my daughter and her family were living full time in the home. 

    Subsequently, however, we have converted to a VRBO and Air B&B and have been successful with both overtime we rented. However, I never changed the policy which I will certainly look into now. Thanks for the heads up.

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 533 posts · 433 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed  Your site looks great!  Agree, short term vs. long term nightly rates, however because my places are in Scottdale, AZ with long term guest "snowbirds" from MI, WI and Canada,  my total revenue for the months of Jan, Feb, Mar and Apr are much higher than rentals of 3-4 nights.  Totally in agreement on all other points.

    Mike

  • Specialist · Bozeman, MT · Member since 2016 · 237 posts · 153 votes
    9y

    Thanks for checking out the site! I should probably update it... 

  • Specialist · Bozeman, MT · Member since 2016 · 237 posts · 153 votes
    9y

    I've rented extensively on both formats, plus my own site, and many other independent sites. What exactly do you want to know? I'll try to cover some things broadly:

    1. More bookings for me on AirBnB than VRBO (about 70:30 split respectively).

    2. Less fees on AirBnB.

    3. Both sites could use better navigation. I sometimes get lost on my dashboard on both sites.

    4. You want to sign up for instant booking. I saw a huge jump in my bookings after I signed up. The risk is also much HUGER, so make sure you have the proper insurance.

    5. Both sites offer their independent insurance policies, but I've only used AirBnB's for a claim. They seem similar otherwise. AirBnB handled my claim very well. Make sure you read and understand what it says!

    6. Both sites have very respectful guests. The crowds are slightly different. I would venture to say that VRBO's guests are older folks, while AirBnB's are more diverse and trend towards youngish people, and youngish families.

    7. I've had two "incidents" through AirBnB guests, which I honestly don't think would have happened through VRBO, so I would like to see AirBnB up their security and background checking. So would the police...

    8. All other sites are useless for booking. I have had ZERO bookings through Booking.com, TripAdvisor, Craigslist (although this is an inherent feature of Craigslist. We still love it and get a lot of calls from CL, the days just never work out), and many others I can't even remember.

    9. Make sure to have your own template site up, just to show potential customers more info, and build trust.

    Let me know if you have anymore specific questions!

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 533 posts · 433 votes
    9y

    @James Carlson Great stuff, good luck and let me know how it turns out!  

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    As a RE broker I know the value of CC&R's and HOA's. They can and most often are a PIA and a deal breaker; at least for me. I won't even attempt to invest in properties that have this going on. There's too many other more user friendly places to invest in.

    The very first thing one should do whence performing their due diligence is to contact the local municipality the property is located in be it a city or county. They all have different rules and regs governing VR's.

    On the North San Diego Coast for example it changes not only from city to city from Oceanside, to Carlsbad, to Encinitas, to solana Beach to Del Mar to La Jolla it also can change from neighborhood to neighborhood or from being right on the coast to a little inland. It can get very confusing so you really need to do your homework before you pull the trigger on a property you intend to use as a VR.

    Example: Carlsbad is really cracking down because homeowners in quiet residential SFR's and Condo communities are demanding controls and legislation due to the transient flow of their once quiet neighborhoods. They've actually cordoned off certain neighborhoods and are preventing any type of VR activity. Long term rent/lease is no prob, however.

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    On the subject of building a website and generating Googl Juice and SEO I tend to agree with others who take the position of letting the AB&B's and VRBO pros lead the field in that department when your a newbie. However, once you get established and/or start generating a lot of returns and referrals thats a different story.

  • Investor · Valley Glen, CA · Member since 2013 · 247 posts · 111 votes
    9y

    Interesting about the making it a business that one day could sell. Right now all my owners have their own separate AirBnB and VRBO accounts and I basically manage them. I am getting known as doing great work and getting lots of rentals so more owners are asking me to manage their homes. As I grow I need #1 a umbrella name for the company and also wondering if I need to manage under my own account or if allowing them to have individual accounts is better. I do have them under contract for a certain amount of time.  For many reasons I like individual. It allows them to make their money and then I simply invoice at the end of the month- so I'm not in charge of their money- they like that. #2 It allows each individual property to have it's own review- so if they do want to leave- they can keep their reviews in tact. 

    Love to hear thoughts on this. 

  • Wholetailer & Architect · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 544 posts · 298 votes
    9y

    There's a lot of great info already said. 

    One thing I can ad is that people may be getting more booking from one platform or another because that is where they have the most reviews or most positive reviews. That affects how high you how up on the page in airbnb. Your speed of response and whether you allow for instant bookings also affect your search rank in airbnb. So it may be a self perpetuating cycle of only using one because that is the one that gets you the most bookings.

    If people are just getting started it is good to set your price below your competitors to build up a few good reviews then raise rates.

    I can't speak to the other platforms as I only use airbnb and homesuite for 1 to 4 month typical rentals.

  • Investor · Monterey, CA · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 55 votes
    9y

    VRBO vs AirBNB - 

    VRBO is much better in my opinion.  The pictures are better and my experiences have been (except once) that you get what you see on the website.  There is a lot more information and we always get a call back or response right away.  Owners are very courteous and helpful.  

    AirBNB I have only used it a few times.  In Hawaii, in TWO airbnb's we stayed at they touted 2 bedrooms but one door was locked!  In Maui, in particular, the bedroom that was locked was the one with the view!  The other, in Capt Cook, Big Island, had bugs all over the place and when we arrived there were people already staying there and they double booked.  So my experience with AirBnb is limited but I like VRBO much better!

  • Real Estate Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2015 · 13 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    @Sean Walton why do you only do 1-4 months? How's that working out for you income wise?

  • Bothell, WA · Member since 2015 · 14 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    I don't own any properties yet, but I thought I'd chime in as I'm part of the younger crowd. My friends and I always try to use AirBNB, but there always seems to be some sort of problem or we can't find availability so we usually end up using VRBO. Craigslist is another way that we find vacation properties too.

  • Rental Property Investor · Port Coquitlam, BC · Member since 2017 · 520 posts · 527 votes
    9y

    As a frequent renter of vacation rentals, my perception is that VRBO offers a more polished experience for the renter. We've always encountered clean and well equipped properties. I've never rented an Air BnB property because the listings always look shady.

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    As a RE broker I know the value of CC&R's and HOA's. They can and most often are a PIA and a deal breaker. I won't even attempt to invest in properties that have this going on. There's too many other more user friendly places to invest in.

    Now if you're already in a neighborhood that imposes VR restrictions then that's another story and short of looking into longer term rentals, providing they're even allowed within the CC&R's and HOA guidelines, you're pretty much out of luck unless you want to sell that property and invest in a more user friendly neighborhood. But then that's not always an easy way to do it either.

  • Engineer / Program Manager / RE Investor · Dexter, MI · Member since 2015 · 86 posts · 30 votes
    9y

    @Michael Wind @Kevin Shuler  I had a bad experience with a vacation rental I did myself through a Craigslist listing and payment through PayPal. After the stay, the tenant just called his credit card company and said his card was lost. I literally had no recourse, PayPal charged me back, and I was out the fees. I'll always go through someone like AirBnB going forward, as they can deal with those types of issues. The few dollars they charge are worth the peace of mind, in my opinion, but I only rent out a couple of weeks a year, not a full time effort. 

    If I am missing something and there is another way to get this same type of protection, I'd be very open to hearing more about it. 

    Thanks!

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    As a RE broker I know the value of CC&R's and HOA's. They can and most often are a PIA and a deal breaker. I won't even attempt to invest in properties that have this going on. There's too many other more user friendly places to invest in.

    Now if you're already in a neighborhood that imposes VR restrictions then that's another story and short of looking into longer term rentals, providing they're even allowed within the CC&R's and HOA guidelines, you're pretty much out of luck unless you want to sell that property and invest in a more VR friendly environment.

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    @Joe Semifero, without a doubt Craigslist is the very last place I'd ever advertise anything; especially any type of RE rentals and doubly especially VR's. CL has allowed there algorithm to be inundated by hackers, spammers and scammers and is like a rattlesnake lying in wait to strike its prey.

    I just put one of my surfboards up for sale recently and within minutes I had a handful of responses telling me that it's just what they've been looking for and they wanted to buy it site unseen immediately. All they needed was my pay pal info so they could send full payment in advance..................DUH!!

  • Wholetailer & Architect · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 544 posts · 298 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Francisco Arango:

    @Sean Walton why do you only do 1-4 months? How's that working out for you income wise?

    Because of San Francisco regulations if the host doesn't live in the unit/house at the same time as the guest you are limited to 90 days a year unless you do longer than 30 day terms. It means less income than STR but better than 1 year leases

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @Joe Semifero , That's terrible about paypal. I remember back when they were actually proponents of the seller. I do agree 100% to utilize one of the services out there. The marketing is amazing, host protection (although not as thorough as I'd like) is better than nothing, and the payments are guaranteed. I do see benefits of self marketing a VR, if you've had it long enough with a stable base that you trust to keep it in good shape and pay without issue. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2015 · 13 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    @Sean Walton what the profile of your guests? Is there a common theme of why they are there in SF or why they renting from you?

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    @Francisco Arango, As I see it the longer you're in the VR biz the more depth you build on the bench with repeat and referral clientele. Eventually, you will have a solid base and could eventually ween yourself away from the brand names that you're paying handsomely for.@Francisco Arango

    On another note I can't remember who brought the subject up but I totally buy into the concept of rewarding good repeat customers. One model I love is the, Marriot "Lifetime Platinum Elite", status of which we've been proud members of for years. They reward their loyal patrons with automatic upgrades, free concierge service, free breakfast, almost meal like evening hors devours, deserts, unlimited coffee, tea, water, soft drinks, free internet, business service access, etc. We always get upgraded to suites, even executive and presidential suites if and when available. 

    We plan to mirror that model with our VR's over the long haul. It always makes loyal guests feel proud and happy to be considered and treated as though they are special. Receiving extra privileges i.e. bed roll down and chocolate treat services is indeed a treat and keep loyal guests coming back time after time. Additionally, the referral's are almost guaranteed.

  • burnabY, bc · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    Hi I have listings on Airbnb and VRBO, for the past couple of months 2 inquiries were received from VRBO and I was fully booked on AIRBNB.  Speaking for myself VRBOs interface isn't straight forward, sending a request for payment to a customer makes me irk a little.

  • Wholetailer & Architect · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 544 posts · 298 votes
    9y

    @Francisco Arango I've had 2 different bookings of people in town to be in plays, several moving to SF for tech jobs, some only in town for a set work term and the place is booked by their company. Those are the 3 main types I've had. 

  • Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 727 posts · 340 votes
    9y

    @Nes Canada, we too have had similar experiences with both. We're beginning to lean more toward Air B&B ourselves.

  • Rental Property Investor · Dunedin, FL · Member since 2015 · 121 posts · 61 votes
    9y

    Hi- pretty much the same experiences as many on this thread. I've only been doing this since mid-2015 and only have 4 STRs, along with 2 long term ones that I will convert soon, but have learned a few things that might be helpful.

    Insurance: Really important to get this right. I worked with an insurance agent to get home insurance that allows STR- I think it's called a Dwelling something- but double and triple check because the first one didn't allow STR and no one was paying attention. I think I got a quote from CBIZ and found it quite expensive so went with various other ones. I am in Florida and insurance there is always a challenge.

    AirBnB/VRBO v. the others: I found Flipkey/Tripadvisor to be silly and didn't even bother continuing discussions with them- got two total inquiries, both from people who wanted to book in other states and whose search gave them my properties! AirBnB younger and more last minute, VRBO older and plan in advance, usually willing to pay more. I price higher on VRBO, and then adjust AirBnB rates down as the dates approach, in order to fill the places. ABNB is much easier to work with, I find, and I love that WYSIWYG on payments- it says, you will be paid x the day after your guests check in. And I am, whereas VRBO sends payments with various credit card fees and international credit card fees deducted such that it's hard to figure out which payment is for whom. I also love that AirBnB has made an arrangement with my county so that they collect and remit the taxes- a kind of "don't ask, don't tell" approach. But I absolutely love having both Air/VRBO- they complement each other and keep me pretty booked. On my older VRBO listings, I used to get paid as soon as the person booked, so sometimes that came in handy e.g. low season someone books for high season and I got their $ when cash flow was tight. On my newest VRBO listing, however, they have gone to the same payment approach as ABNB- I get paid the day after guests arrive. there are good and bad aspects to that.

    Legality: Several of my properties are zoned commercial or STR-friendly, but two are in areas where I don't want to enquire too closely. From now on, I am going to stick to buying in areas where I know legality won't be an issue.

    It's a lot of work! But it is paying well enough to make it worthwhile, and now that I have a lot of stuff figured out better, it is getting less management, time and money-intensive. I have now, after some trial and error, a wonderful property manager, a young mom who likes the flexibility, and who i am trying to treat very well, and a couple of good cleaners and a handyman who allow me to run this from another country. 

    It's so nice to hear about others' experiences- I am on several other fora on this and each one brings their own perspective.

    Best of luck- W

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