Failed Leadership is why California is on fire.
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
Failed Leadership is why California is on fire.
Most Popular Reply
Brian BurkePro Member
Investor · Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 7k+ votes@James Wise you're right about California's bad leadership. But that's not why it's on fire.
Here is how I get my perspective: I was a firefighter in CA for about a decade in my former life. The house I'm sitting in right now is on a hill with 270 degree views and I can see about ten miles in each direction. Nearly every house I can see from here burned to the ground in 2017, including the house that was on this very lot and almost every house on this street. 5,300 in total. Thankfully, at that time I lived just a bit to the south and the winds blew the fire right by my house, missing by 3,000 feet. I woke up that morning to a wall of fire as far as I could see.
I drove to my office, everything around me was on fire including the landscaping and dumpsters in the parking lot--no firefighters around. But the office itself didn't burn.
The fire had traveled ten miles in about 3 hours. You can't get mutual aid (with a several hour ETA) in time to stop it. The calvary arrives just in time to mop up.
I have a second home in Maui, and as I look out in one direction the entire town I used to see burned to the ground in 2023. The wind blew that fire to our south, this time missing us by almost a mile. This is becoming all too familiar, and yet I'm extraordinarily lucky that I suffered no direct fire loss in any of these.
In both of these fires, hydrants didn't work. Firefighting resources were overwhelmed. Winds were near or exceeding hurricane force. The fire created it's own weather including "fire tornados".
Part of the reasons hydrants didn't work was some water storage was already depleted for maintenance. Power was shut off to prevent it from starting more fire (or was killed by the fire) and this power is what drives the municipal water pumps. Homes burned, leaving their water service lines severed and freely flowing water onto the ground, depleting the pressure. It's just chaos.
Suggestions above include:
To not rebuild and convert the land over to parkland. How do you buy out over 5,000 homeowners? Infeasible.
To build out of concrete block. Ok, but from my house I can see what used to be a K-mart about a mile away. It was made out of concrete block and it burned to the ground, along with a lot of other concrete and brick structures. My next door neighbor built their house out of poured in place concrete. Will it help? Maybe. The building codes are pretty strict. Ours is built with stucco siding, concrete tile roof, tempered windows, self-closing soffit and crawl space vents (they melt when exposed to heat). A lot of structures go up because the intense radiant heat from the wildfire ignites contents inside the home through the windows, or the embers enter the attics and crawl spaces through the vents--so just building from block won't be a cure.
Build with steel. These fires are so hot even the steel structures melted and burned. The winds were so strong and fire so hot there were cars turned upside down in driveways, and then melted.
The bottom line is that 100 mph winds combined with dry grass and just about any ignition source is unstoppable once it gets going. If the fire can be knocked down in its infancy you can save entire towns. And that's what usually happens--there are hundreds of fires no one hears about. But the ones that aren't stopped right away and get a head on them, when close to an urban area, with wind like this, will cause extreme devastation. No amount of water will stop it.
And don't even get me started on insurance. My $7,500 policy was "non-renewed" and I only got two quotes: $42K and $92K. Then by a stroke of luck I found another quote for $13K. If that carrier doesn't stay afloat it's pretty dismal.
176 Replies
- Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @James Wise:
About time. Although some people will yell that 'this is mean, of those poor people' it has to be done like this. Otherwise it would be like giving your teenage kid a new car, which he crashes, and you just buy him another one without talking about responsibilty and consequences.
Ya man, folks out in Cali are wild and have a lot of miss placed rage. Check out this PM I got from a BP member.
How typically "Californian"🙄
- 1yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Lol, they can't take any criticism of their beloved Cali....
But facts are facts....
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @James Wise:
About time. Although some people will yell that 'this is mean, of those poor people' it has to be done like this. Otherwise it would be like giving your teenage kid a new car, which he crashes, and you just buy him another one without talking about responsibilty and consequences.
Ya man, folks out in Cali are wild and have a lot of miss placed rage. Check out this PM I got from a BP member.
And how much help and aid did CA send North Carolina and Tennessee??????
Oh yeah, that's right; DIDDLY SQUAT!
Hey tough guy, how about you come out to TN/NC and talk smack.... "you sure do got a pretty mouth...."
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Lol, they can't take any criticism of their beloved Cali....
But facts are facts....
Hey, remember the CA people say how it's the greatest most bestest ever ever. CA sun shines better, CA water tasts better, girls are prettier, bestest economy, just EVERYTHING in CA is better.....
Sooooo CA should have no problem at all flipping that bill, right?
I mean, hey, your such the awesomest and EVERYBODY loves CA #1, so no doubt every CA resident will be ecstatic to help chip-in for it all.
Let em reap what they sow.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @James Wise:
About time. Although some people will yell that 'this is mean, of those poor people' it has to be done like this. Otherwise it would be like giving your teenage kid a new car, which he crashes, and you just buy him another one without talking about responsibilty and consequences.
Ya man, folks out in Cali are wild and have a lot of miss placed rage. Check out this PM I got from a BP member.
And how much help and aid did CA send North Carolina and Tennessee??????
Oh yeah, that's right; DIDDLY SQUAT!
Hey tough guy, how about you come out to TN/NC and talk smack.... "you sure do got a pretty mouth...."
lol, someone also left a death threat on the HoltonWise voicemail system. I'll probably end up uploading it to HoltonWiseTV, but for now here is the automated transcript from our phone system. I am guessing it's the same Daniel H who PM'd me. Dude has a few screws loose.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @James Wise:
About time. Although some people will yell that 'this is mean, of those poor people' it has to be done like this. Otherwise it would be like giving your teenage kid a new car, which he crashes, and you just buy him another one without talking about responsibilty and consequences.
Ya man, folks out in Cali are wild and have a lot of miss placed rage. Check out this PM I got from a BP member.
And how much help and aid did CA send North Carolina and Tennessee??????
Oh yeah, that's right; DIDDLY SQUAT!
Hey tough guy, how about you come out to TN/NC and talk smack.... "you sure do got a pretty mouth...."
lol, someone also left a death threat on the HoltonWise voicemail system. I'll probably end up uploading it to HoltonWiseTV, but for now here is the automated transcript from our phone system. I am guessing it's the same Daniel H who PM'd me. Dude has a few screws loose.
Hey @Account Closed do you got anything to say about this?
- 1yNed J.Pro MemberInvestor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Oh god... just stop.
CA didnt send any help to TN/NC??.... oh please
CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?.... with 50-80 mph winds? NOT POSSIBLE.... NOT A SINGLE state has a water delivery system to combat fires and condition's of this magnitude
Stop listening to all the blatant misinformation being dumped in SM and certain "news" stations....99% of it is complete BS and been disproven, but the lies just keep spreading as "fact"
Give me a F'in break....... now all the RE experts are fire management experts
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Ned J.:
Oh god... just stop.
CA didnt send any help to TN/NC??.... oh please
CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?.... with 50-80 mph winds? NOT POSSIBLE.... NOT A SINGLE state has a water delivery system to combat fires and condition's of this magnitude
Stop listening to all the blatant misinformation being dumped in SM and certain "news" stations....99% of it is complete BS and been disproven, but the lies just keep spreading as "fact"
Give me a F'in break....... now all the RE experts are fire management experts
"CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?...."
Yeah, I do.
The empty ones already in place in CA, neglected to, ya know, have water in em.
Hey, how about that genius move to turn OFF the power, including to the water pumps. Has CA never heard of generators? Did nobody ever stop and say "oh, hey, maybe we should keep water pumps going because, ya know, no electricity no water pumping, NO WATER".
Ran out of water, LMAO. That's the drunk driver saying the car just wouldn't drive straight.- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Ned J.:
Oh god... just stop.
CA didnt send any help to TN/NC??.... oh please
CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?.... with 50-80 mph winds? NOT POSSIBLE.... NOT A SINGLE state has a water delivery system to combat fires and condition's of this magnitude
Stop listening to all the blatant misinformation being dumped in SM and certain "news" stations....99% of it is complete BS and been disproven, but the lies just keep spreading as "fact"
Give me a F'in break....... now all the RE experts are fire management experts
"CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?...."
Yeah, I do.
The empty ones already in place in CA, neglected to, ya know, have water in em.
Hey, how about that genius move to turn OFF the power, including to the water pumps. Has CA never heard of generators? Did nobody ever stop and say "oh, hey, maybe we should keep water pumps going because, ya know, no electricity no water pumping, NO WATER".
Ran out of water, LMAO. That's the drunk driver saying the car just wouldn't drive straight.its common practice at least in northern CA to turn off power to the whole grid when they are getting hot dry windy weather.. if you look @Brian Burke post those fires that wiped out so many in Sonoma Napa and Lake Counties were generally caused by downed hot power lines and PGE was sued and I think lost billion or multi billion dollar law suit.. I like Brian lived in the same area as him for most of my life and these fires were about a once every 20 year event.
with some whoppers back in 1980 to 1985 big ones in Lake co and Atlas peak in Napa went up mid 80s.. but there were not as many homes in the areas.. The one where Brian lived what was unique is it got down into the flat land and burned up subdivision homes which is still pretty rare.
So thats why the power gets turned off.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Ned J.:
Oh god... just stop.
CA didnt send any help to TN/NC??.... oh please
CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?.... with 50-80 mph winds? NOT POSSIBLE.... NOT A SINGLE state has a water delivery system to combat fires and condition's of this magnitude
Stop listening to all the blatant misinformation being dumped in SM and certain "news" stations....99% of it is complete BS and been disproven, but the lies just keep spreading as "fact"
Give me a F'in break....... now all the RE experts are fire management experts
"CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?...."
Yeah, I do.
The empty ones already in place in CA, neglected to, ya know, have water in em.
Hey, how about that genius move to turn OFF the power, including to the water pumps. Has CA never heard of generators? Did nobody ever stop and say "oh, hey, maybe we should keep water pumps going because, ya know, no electricity no water pumping, NO WATER".
Ran out of water, LMAO. That's the drunk driver saying the car just wouldn't drive straight.its common practice at least in northern CA to turn off power to the whole grid when they are getting hot dry windy weather.. if you look @Brian Burke post those fires that wiped out so many in Sonoma Napa and Lake Counties were generally caused by downed hot power lines and PGE was sued and I think lost billion or multi billion dollar law suit.. I like Brian lived in the same area as him for most of my life and these fires were about a once every 20 year event.
with some whoppers back in 1980 to 1985 big ones in Lake co and Atlas peak in Napa went up mid 80s.. but there were not as many homes in the areas.. The one where Brian lived what was unique is it got down into the flat land and burned up subdivision homes which is still pretty rare.
So thats why the power gets turned off.
I totally get that.
What baffles me is in a fire zone, where it's a normalized thing to need to turn off power grid for safety sake of fires, is there really nobody who thought of having generators at the water lift stations?
I mean, come-on, that's rather obvious isn't it?
You need water to fight fires. Need pumps to keep water going. Seems rather obvious to have backup power generation given a policy to turn power off in fire risk instances.
There was the 1 guy in the middle of the fires who stayed and saved I don't know how many homes, several, because he ran around with a dang garden hose. I am betting via a home generator and a well. 1 old man and a garden hose.....
So yeah, I question what could have been if someone put there thinking cap on and took a mobile generator to the lift stations so the hydrants would have had water.......
- 1yHenry ClarkPro MemberDeveloper · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votesThat guy and his son pre bought a normal trash water pump. They pumped from their swimming pools.
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Ned J.:
Oh god... just stop.
CA didnt send any help to TN/NC??.... oh please
CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?.... with 50-80 mph winds? NOT POSSIBLE.... NOT A SINGLE state has a water delivery system to combat fires and condition's of this magnitude
Stop listening to all the blatant misinformation being dumped in SM and certain "news" stations....99% of it is complete BS and been disproven, but the lies just keep spreading as "fact"
Give me a F'in break....... now all the RE experts are fire management experts
"CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?...."
Yeah, I do.
The empty ones already in place in CA, neglected to, ya know, have water in em.
Hey, how about that genius move to turn OFF the power, including to the water pumps. Has CA never heard of generators? Did nobody ever stop and say "oh, hey, maybe we should keep water pumps going because, ya know, no electricity no water pumping, NO WATER".
Ran out of water, LMAO. That's the drunk driver saying the car just wouldn't drive straight.its common practice at least in northern CA to turn off power to the whole grid when they are getting hot dry windy weather.. if you look @Brian Burke post those fires that wiped out so many in Sonoma Napa and Lake Counties were generally caused by downed hot power lines and PGE was sued and I think lost billion or multi billion dollar law suit.. I like Brian lived in the same area as him for most of my life and these fires were about a once every 20 year event.
with some whoppers back in 1980 to 1985 big ones in Lake co and Atlas peak in Napa went up mid 80s.. but there were not as many homes in the areas.. The one where Brian lived what was unique is it got down into the flat land and burned up subdivision homes which is still pretty rare.
So thats why the power gets turned off.
I totally get that.
What baffles me is in a fire zone, where it's a normalized thing to need to turn off power grid for safety sake of fires, is there really nobody who thought of having generators at the water lift stations?
I mean, come-on, that's rather obvious isn't it?
You need water to fight fires. Need pumps to keep water going. Seems rather obvious to have backup power generation given a policy to turn power off in fire risk instances.
There was the 1 guy in the middle of the fires who stayed and saved I don't know how many homes, several, because he ran around with a dang garden hose. I am betting via a home generator and a well. 1 old man and a garden hose.....
So yeah, I question what could have been if someone put there thinking cap on and took a mobile generator to the lift stations so the hydrants would have had water.......
Believe I noted in an earlier post. My brother oversaw fire efforts south of LA to the border one year with the military. But when their resources weren’t need they helped LA and up to Washington state. For LA specifically they gave them a recommendation to put pre filled water tanks up in the hills. From there it was gravity fed pressure through the fire hydrants. LA did not want to do it.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Ned J.:
Oh god... just stop.
CA didnt send any help to TN/NC??.... oh please
CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?.... with 50-80 mph winds? NOT POSSIBLE.... NOT A SINGLE state has a water delivery system to combat fires and condition's of this magnitude
Stop listening to all the blatant misinformation being dumped in SM and certain "news" stations....99% of it is complete BS and been disproven, but the lies just keep spreading as "fact"
Give me a F'in break....... now all the RE experts are fire management experts
"CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?...."
Yeah, I do.
The empty ones already in place in CA, neglected to, ya know, have water in em.
Hey, how about that genius move to turn OFF the power, including to the water pumps. Has CA never heard of generators? Did nobody ever stop and say "oh, hey, maybe we should keep water pumps going because, ya know, no electricity no water pumping, NO WATER".
Ran out of water, LMAO. That's the drunk driver saying the car just wouldn't drive straight.its common practice at least in northern CA to turn off power to the whole grid when they are getting hot dry windy weather.. if you look @Brian Burke post those fires that wiped out so many in Sonoma Napa and Lake Counties were generally caused by downed hot power lines and PGE was sued and I think lost billion or multi billion dollar law suit.. I like Brian lived in the same area as him for most of my life and these fires were about a once every 20 year event.
with some whoppers back in 1980 to 1985 big ones in Lake co and Atlas peak in Napa went up mid 80s.. but there were not as many homes in the areas.. The one where Brian lived what was unique is it got down into the flat land and burned up subdivision homes which is still pretty rare.
So thats why the power gets turned off.
I totally get that.
What baffles me is in a fire zone, where it's a normalized thing to need to turn off power grid for safety sake of fires, is there really nobody who thought of having generators at the water lift stations?
I mean, come-on, that's rather obvious isn't it?
You need water to fight fires. Need pumps to keep water going. Seems rather obvious to have backup power generation given a policy to turn power off in fire risk instances.
There was the 1 guy in the middle of the fires who stayed and saved I don't know how many homes, several, because he ran around with a dang garden hose. I am betting via a home generator and a well. 1 old man and a garden hose.....
So yeah, I question what could have been if someone put there thinking cap on and took a mobile generator to the lift stations so the hydrants would have had water.......
not sure if you have ever been at or around some of these CA wild fires.. but they move very quickly faster than can run.. so thinking you can station folks at pump stations may work in certain locations but in others they would get over run and killed.
The real issue is building in fire prone areas.. it just is what it is.. Keep in mind Indians 500 years ago did their own control burns or when lightening started a fire it went on for long time. And that controlled the brush .. LA is basically brush fires NOT forest fires.. N> CA has forest fires Oregon has forest fires WA has forest fires etc. LA Brush and that stuff is highly combustable. - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Henry Clark:
That guy and his son pre bought a normal trash water pump. They pumped from their swimming pools.Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Ned J.:
Oh god... just stop.
CA didnt send any help to TN/NC??.... oh please
CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?.... with 50-80 mph winds? NOT POSSIBLE.... NOT A SINGLE state has a water delivery system to combat fires and condition's of this magnitude
Stop listening to all the blatant misinformation being dumped in SM and certain "news" stations....99% of it is complete BS and been disproven, but the lies just keep spreading as "fact"
Give me a F'in break....... now all the RE experts are fire management experts
"CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?...."
Yeah, I do.
The empty ones already in place in CA, neglected to, ya know, have water in em.
Hey, how about that genius move to turn OFF the power, including to the water pumps. Has CA never heard of generators? Did nobody ever stop and say "oh, hey, maybe we should keep water pumps going because, ya know, no electricity no water pumping, NO WATER".
Ran out of water, LMAO. That's the drunk driver saying the car just wouldn't drive straight.its common practice at least in northern CA to turn off power to the whole grid when they are getting hot dry windy weather.. if you look @Brian Burke post those fires that wiped out so many in Sonoma Napa and Lake Counties were generally caused by downed hot power lines and PGE was sued and I think lost billion or multi billion dollar law suit.. I like Brian lived in the same area as him for most of my life and these fires were about a once every 20 year event.
with some whoppers back in 1980 to 1985 big ones in Lake co and Atlas peak in Napa went up mid 80s.. but there were not as many homes in the areas.. The one where Brian lived what was unique is it got down into the flat land and burned up subdivision homes which is still pretty rare.
So thats why the power gets turned off.
I totally get that.
What baffles me is in a fire zone, where it's a normalized thing to need to turn off power grid for safety sake of fires, is there really nobody who thought of having generators at the water lift stations?
I mean, come-on, that's rather obvious isn't it?
You need water to fight fires. Need pumps to keep water going. Seems rather obvious to have backup power generation given a policy to turn power off in fire risk instances.
There was the 1 guy in the middle of the fires who stayed and saved I don't know how many homes, several, because he ran around with a dang garden hose. I am betting via a home generator and a well. 1 old man and a garden hose.....
So yeah, I question what could have been if someone put there thinking cap on and took a mobile generator to the lift stations so the hydrants would have had water.......
Believe I noted in an earlier post. My brother oversaw fire efforts south of LA to the border one year with the military. But when their resources weren’t need they helped LA and up to Washington state. For LA specifically they gave them a recommendation to put pre filled water tanks up in the hills. From there it was gravity fed pressure through the fire hydrants. LA did not want to do it.
Wow.....
So it looks like, if CalFire went and robbed the local Home Depot, and put teams of 2 people with a garden hose pumping from pools, they could have saved about 2,000% more homes...... If not more.
Yeah, I call that an epic failure of leadership. Or really just thinking in general.
What get's me is what appears to be no accountability. Just demands that tax payors across the nation flip the bill for it all.
No, I say too bad. CA can flip the bill themselves. They made there bed, they can lay in it's ashes.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Ned J.:
Oh god... just stop.
CA didnt send any help to TN/NC??.... oh please
CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?.... with 50-80 mph winds? NOT POSSIBLE.... NOT A SINGLE state has a water delivery system to combat fires and condition's of this magnitude
Stop listening to all the blatant misinformation being dumped in SM and certain "news" stations....99% of it is complete BS and been disproven, but the lies just keep spreading as "fact"
Give me a F'in break....... now all the RE experts are fire management experts
"CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?...."
Yeah, I do.
The empty ones already in place in CA, neglected to, ya know, have water in em.
Hey, how about that genius move to turn OFF the power, including to the water pumps. Has CA never heard of generators? Did nobody ever stop and say "oh, hey, maybe we should keep water pumps going because, ya know, no electricity no water pumping, NO WATER".
Ran out of water, LMAO. That's the drunk driver saying the car just wouldn't drive straight.its common practice at least in northern CA to turn off power to the whole grid when they are getting hot dry windy weather.. if you look @Brian Burke post those fires that wiped out so many in Sonoma Napa and Lake Counties were generally caused by downed hot power lines and PGE was sued and I think lost billion or multi billion dollar law suit.. I like Brian lived in the same area as him for most of my life and these fires were about a once every 20 year event.
with some whoppers back in 1980 to 1985 big ones in Lake co and Atlas peak in Napa went up mid 80s.. but there were not as many homes in the areas.. The one where Brian lived what was unique is it got down into the flat land and burned up subdivision homes which is still pretty rare.
So thats why the power gets turned off.
I totally get that.
What baffles me is in a fire zone, where it's a normalized thing to need to turn off power grid for safety sake of fires, is there really nobody who thought of having generators at the water lift stations?
I mean, come-on, that's rather obvious isn't it?
You need water to fight fires. Need pumps to keep water going. Seems rather obvious to have backup power generation given a policy to turn power off in fire risk instances.
There was the 1 guy in the middle of the fires who stayed and saved I don't know how many homes, several, because he ran around with a dang garden hose. I am betting via a home generator and a well. 1 old man and a garden hose.....
So yeah, I question what could have been if someone put there thinking cap on and took a mobile generator to the lift stations so the hydrants would have had water.......
not sure if you have ever been at or around some of these CA wild fires.. but they move very quickly faster than can run.. so thinking you can station folks at pump stations may work in certain locations but in others they would get over run and killed.
The real issue is building in fire prone areas.. it just is what it is.. Keep in mind Indians 500 years ago did their own control burns or when lightening started a fire it went on for long time. And that controlled the brush .. LA is basically brush fires NOT forest fires.. N> CA has forest fires Oregon has forest fires WA has forest fires etc. LA Brush and that stuff is highly combustable.They don't need to station people there.
Just when know the powers going down, ok, get a generator out to lift station, plug it in, turn it on and walk away.
We have these all over the place in MN. A big-ole Generac just sitting there at lift station.
Most of our lift stations are in the ground, so all one sees is a concrete slab, metal cover, and a big Generac box on part of the slab.
And it's for that exact reason, if power goes down something has to power the water pump so there is water pressure still.
Every city has staff who fiddles with electricity, so even not having thought through the common sense before hand to have this in place, knowing power was going off someone should have said "hey, we need power to pump the water or were gonna be fkd".
And whatever lift station was still safe, which I can't imagine they turn off power seconds before the flames engulf the lines, they anticipate, so CalFire, the city etc. could have also anticipated, got any trailer generator, tooled it over, rigged it up to connect it, turn on and leave.
I guarantee at the city services they have a number of these trailer generators just sitting there. Or go to a rental center and allocate them.
No effort was made on leadership part. They expected firefighters to use what, nasty looks to put out the fires once water stopped?
There was no way they could cut a fire line in that time, on those hills, with the way everything was. That's like asking em to go stand in a 35 degree hill of gasoline rags as flames approached and try to clear it.
Water was the only chance, to knock down embers in areas as they started jump fires. That's how the old man and his son did it.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Ned J.:
Oh god... just stop.
CA didnt send any help to TN/NC??.... oh please
CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?.... with 50-80 mph winds? NOT POSSIBLE.... NOT A SINGLE state has a water delivery system to combat fires and condition's of this magnitude
Stop listening to all the blatant misinformation being dumped in SM and certain "news" stations....99% of it is complete BS and been disproven, but the lies just keep spreading as "fact"
Give me a F'in break....... now all the RE experts are fire management experts
"CA ran out of water...... do you have ANY clue what kind of water delivery system would be needed to handle multiple wild fires of this magnitude?...."
Yeah, I do.
The empty ones already in place in CA, neglected to, ya know, have water in em.
Hey, how about that genius move to turn OFF the power, including to the water pumps. Has CA never heard of generators? Did nobody ever stop and say "oh, hey, maybe we should keep water pumps going because, ya know, no electricity no water pumping, NO WATER".
Ran out of water, LMAO. That's the drunk driver saying the car just wouldn't drive straight.its common practice at least in northern CA to turn off power to the whole grid when they are getting hot dry windy weather.. if you look @Brian Burke post those fires that wiped out so many in Sonoma Napa and Lake Counties were generally caused by downed hot power lines and PGE was sued and I think lost billion or multi billion dollar law suit.. I like Brian lived in the same area as him for most of my life and these fires were about a once every 20 year event.
with some whoppers back in 1980 to 1985 big ones in Lake co and Atlas peak in Napa went up mid 80s.. but there were not as many homes in the areas.. The one where Brian lived what was unique is it got down into the flat land and burned up subdivision homes which is still pretty rare.
So thats why the power gets turned off.
I totally get that.
What baffles me is in a fire zone, where it's a normalized thing to need to turn off power grid for safety sake of fires, is there really nobody who thought of having generators at the water lift stations?
I mean, come-on, that's rather obvious isn't it?
You need water to fight fires. Need pumps to keep water going. Seems rather obvious to have backup power generation given a policy to turn power off in fire risk instances.
There was the 1 guy in the middle of the fires who stayed and saved I don't know how many homes, several, because he ran around with a dang garden hose. I am betting via a home generator and a well. 1 old man and a garden hose.....
So yeah, I question what could have been if someone put there thinking cap on and took a mobile generator to the lift stations so the hydrants would have had water.......
not sure if you have ever been at or around some of these CA wild fires.. but they move very quickly faster than can run.. so thinking you can station folks at pump stations may work in certain locations but in others they would get over run and killed.
The real issue is building in fire prone areas.. it just is what it is.. Keep in mind Indians 500 years ago did their own control burns or when lightening started a fire it went on for long time. And that controlled the brush .. LA is basically brush fires NOT forest fires.. N> CA has forest fires Oregon has forest fires WA has forest fires etc. LA Brush and that stuff is highly combustable.They don't need to station people there.
Just when know the powers going down, ok, get a generator out to lift station, plug it in, turn it on and walk away.
We have these all over the place in MN. A big-ole Generac just sitting there at lift station.
Most of our lift stations are in the ground, so all one sees is a concrete slab, metal cover, and a big Generac box on part of the slab.
And it's for that exact reason, if power goes down something has to power the water pump so there is water pressure still.
Every city has staff who fiddles with electricity, so even not having thought through the common sense before hand to have this in place, knowing power was going off someone should have said "hey, we need power to pump the water or were gonna be fkd".
And whatever lift station was still safe, which I can't imagine they turn off power seconds before the flames engulf the lines, they anticipate, so CalFire, the city etc. could have also anticipated, got any trailer generator, tooled it over, rigged it up to connect it, turn on and leave.
I guarantee at the city services they have a number of these trailer generators just sitting there. Or go to a rental center and allocate them.
No effort was made on leadership part. They expected firefighters to use what, nasty looks to put out the fires once water stopped?
There was no way they could cut a fire line in that time, on those hills, with the way everything was. That's like asking em to go stand in a 35 degree hill of gasoline rags as flames approached and try to clear it.
Water was the only chance, to knock down embers in areas as they started jump fires. That's how the old man and his son did it.
U put those generators out there and they will be stolen LOL..
- Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Update; The L.A. times reported as of March 26th only 4 permits have been issued for building in Pacific Palisades. "Fast track" lol
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @Alan F.:
Update; The L.A. times reported as of March 26th only 4 permits have been issued for building in Pacific Palisades. "Fast track" lol
Sounds on brand to me.
- 1yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Alan F.:
Update; The L.A. times reported as of March 26th only 4 permits have been issued for building in Pacific Palisades. "Fast track" lol
4 already? Wow, I honestly thought they would take 6 mos even with the political pressure.....
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @Alan F.:
Update; The L.A. times reported as of March 26th only 4 permits have been issued for building in Pacific Palisades. "Fast track" lol
4 already? Wow, I honestly thought they would take 6 mos even with the political pressure.....
California homers are so wild. If you wanna defend the weather, the beauty, the appreciation etc.....fine, all good. I get it. But those who defend how the government is running out there are craaaaaaaaaazy bro.
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