Health Care Reform Yes or No?
Real Estate Investor · brighton, MI · Member since 2009 · 56 posts · 12 votes
Should we refom health care? Do we leave thing the way they are? Do we pay $800 co-pay per month and then bail out banks? Are we listening to our president or do we disagree just to disagree? Please share how you feel.
"...When there was a fire, all private insurance companies would send their fire crews to see if it was their customer and those that were other companies fire crews would have to get out of the way of the company who was the fire crew for that customer..."
Well, thanks for the history lesson. Actually, in some towns if you hadn't paid a seperate "fire tax" they wouldn't show up at all. In any event, you can continue to hold on to your ideological trappings while the system burns (sorry, couldn't help myself) or, you can join the rest of the civilized world in the 21st century in acknowledging that government involvment is REQUIRED in making health care benefits available to most of us. The notion that you can leave the care of the sick in the hands of for profit health care insurance companies is just, well, nuts. It's a bit like the Medieval notion that the world was flat. You can say it, you can believe it, you can pray that it is so, but the Earth will still NOT be flat.
I confess, I like most services I get from my government. They're not perfect, but who is? I took a shower this morning and made my coffee with water treated by the government and piped to my front door. I didn't worry about drinking it either. I flushed the toilet and they are processing that, as we work. Here in Chicago where I live, if I get sick the city will send an ambulance and EMT's to take me to the hospital (and they have). If the house is on fire, they'll send firefighters. If one of our local freaks tries to break in, the police will come and not inquire as to my home owner's insurance. At the federal level, our soldiers, sailors and Marines are protecting me and, I think, do a pretty good job for a bunch of federal employees. I know most conservatives might think they'd be better off with a .45 and a posse, but I like the military.
So, do nothing, hold on to your values. It won't belong before the system totally implodes. Then the politicians of both parties can all look around and wonder what happened. Naturally, one will blame the other, but there'll be plenty of blame to go around. In the meantime, they'll continue to enjoy tax payer funded government health care. Why America is afraid of tackling this issue is both sad and disconcerting. But, in the near term this will all come home to roost.
Have you even heard Obama speak?
Now that's funny! If you do a little reading about Ezekiel Emanuel, Obama's healthcare advisor, you'll see that he specifically talked about denying treatment to unproductive people, specifically people with dementia. This crowd is a bunch of wackos and this is EXACTLY how the Nazis started - killing the deformed and mentally ill!
Personally, I think we're on the path to a dictatorship and a war!
Mike
I agree 100% and they should be responsible to pay for it. If they don't pay for it, they don't get it!!!
It is NOT my responsibility to pay for the MILLIONS of deadbeats in this country. If a man doesn't work let him not eat! If he doesn't eat, then we won't have to worry about healthcare!
Mike
Then go live in another country and see how sympathetic they are when you get sick. Good luck with that! Let us know how it works out for ya!
Wow, how un-american, un-patriotic of you to say that!
Wow! I really messed up that last post. Goes to show you what a 14 lb kitten can do can do when he walks on the keyboard. Just to clarify my response:
"Then go live in another country and see how sympathetic they are when you get sick. Good luck with that! Let us know how it works out for ya! "
I see a true revolution around the corner.
3. Yea!! Get government out of health care right now. Abolish medicare! Why pull the plug on grandma when you can just let her die slowly... !!
4. Get the government's hands out of the insurance business! The poor bastards are choking on money!
5. And the socialist? Oh, don't worry, God will take care of those SOBs.
THIS is the reason that this country is going downhill. Because people are too lazy to do their due diligence, and are happy to just repeat whatever they hear some drug addict nut-job radio talk show host babble about.
Mike -
Please provide some support for your belief that the government wants to make ANY end-of-life decisions for Americans.
You people complain, complain, complain, but don't bother to actually get informed so that you can have a logical discussion on the issues.
Just like Sarah Palin who made up the idea of "death panels"...
Not doing your due diligence is just plain lazy. So when you spend your time complaining about "lazy Americans," remember that you're referring to a group that includes yourself.
And, of course, if I'm wrong, just provide me some reference to "euthanasia" or "death panels" in any bill that has come out of this administration.
I'm fairly sure that if Jesus existed, he would NOT have walked past a homeless guy and said, "Nah, you're a good-for-nothing deadbeat, you don't deserve any help from me...I didn't die for YOUR sins, you lazy immigrant."
In fact, I read this recently in an OpEd piece:
"One of Jesus' most famous parables is about health care. A Samaritan traveler happens upon a seriously wounded man lying by the side of the road. The Samaritan attends to the man, dresses his wounds and pays a substantial sum for his care and recovery. Jesus ends the story by telling his hearers to "go and do likewise." At the end of his earthly ministry, Jesus adds final instruction to those who might have lingering doubts about their responsibilities...: 'Love one another as I have loved you.'"
How can people claim to follow the word of Jesus but completely disagree with the core of what he stood for -- that all life is equally valuable, and that we should be doing everything in our power to help those less fortunate, regardless of the circumstances around their misfortune.
In fact, based on what I've read, I'm fairly certain that Jesus would have been a socialist...isn't that what the "Kingdom of Heaven" is all about? Even immigrants are allowed to enter, regardless of whether they have U.S. citizenship or if they hold a job, as long as they follow the path of Jesus.
Makes me wonder how self-described Christians reconcile their goal to live up to the standards of Jesus but then are happy to let the poor, the lazy and the immigrants suffer.
I'm not at all religious, so I don't know the answer. Would love to get some perspective from those of you who are...
That's obvious. You should look up the parable of the talents (Matthew 25: 14-30). You might also want to check out 2 Thessalonians 3:10! Nowhere in the bible does Jesus condone laziness - in fact quite the opposite. Jesus does encourage charity for the sick and I agree. However, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the MILLIONS of Americans who are simply too lazy to work and those that do work that CHOOSE to spend their money on things other than healthcare! They have the right to make that choice, but it's not then my resonsibility to provide healthcare for them!!!
Mike
Are you saying that Jesus wouldn't stop and help that person because of his shortcomings?
Again, I seriously don't know the answer...I just had my assumptions...
As a matter of fact, Jesus pointed out that these lazy snobs exist in all facuts of life, and not just the "poor and unfortunate" class. Jesus once told the high-affluent ruler to get rid of his infirmacy by dipping in the Jordan river seven times. This ruler did not want to do so because the rivers at home were soo much cleaner than the Jordan.
Even the rich had to do what Jesus said. All had to DO something, that was Jesus point in most things. As a matter of fact Jesus is the one who said "IF a man will not work, then neither let him eat!"
Jesus was all about personal choices. Even if you made a mistake, you had to live with the consequinces even though you could be forgiven of making the mistake.
He never once advocated forcing everyone else to pay for the mistakes of others.
He did advocate you helping those that you CAN help, but it is YOUR choice to make and was not to be forced upon you.
And like I said to Mike, I completely agree that no-one (including Jesus) should *condone* this behavior. We all agree on this, I think.
But it doesn't answer my specific question:
"If Jesus were walking down the street, and the laziest, good-for-nothing, criminal, drunk immigrant were laying injured on the street, what do you think he would do?"
Would he just walk on by or would he stop to help?
No, he would not walk by, but would tell them what to do to get help. If they did this them they would be helped, but if they choose not to do it, they would not get help.
He would,in fact, help those who could not help themselves, but also KNEW who would try and who would not even try.
Today we do not know those who are choosing not to help themselves, this is where the problem really is, deciding those who are trying versus those who wont try.
The societal unit that he advocated was the family, first, then the church, then those that had the means to do so. But in all cases it was also about choices of the individual.
This could be really at the heart of the problem the breakdown of the family unit. Without the family unit it would be up to the church unit, which has also been broken down. Then it would fall to those who could help (insurance), but do to greed we have seen those who they can not make money off of priced out of the system.
Therefore the government wants to step in. And it is actually the government that broke down the family unit, then went after the churches. With all these things unavailable to us they feel that we will have to turn to them. I do believe it is all about power and control over us.
Another thing is that in the scripture, Jesus never said, "I have healed you." Every time He said, "Your faith has made you well." The impetus was always on the person who was sick.