How many of you SUCCESSFUL investors..
Real Estate Investor · Center Moriches, NY · Member since 2011 · 163 posts · 4 votes
I'm curious as to how many of you SUCCESSFUL investors attend college (how many years) and what did you study? are you doing both what you studied and real estate? or only real estate?
Consider who his target audience is and why it might be financially valuable to him to espouse this view...everything he says and does is for money, why should this be any different?
What do your categorize as SUCCESSFUL investor?
One that is making a living; or one that is making more then a living.
:)
You mean making a living from just real estate?
LOL, Jon has a good question for you. I don't know any highly successful investors, who are self made, that did not attend college, I do know some successful people who did not attend college.
My undergrad was in finance/accounting and economics, later an MBA. I only had one course in RE as a student, Principles of RE. Later I taught undergrad finance, accounting, RE, economics, finance and management.
Actually, for those who plan on going on their own (not getting a job for government or some bank or corp.) I'd say there are a handfull of classes that would really help investors and a 4 year degree may not be required. Being successful is not limited to an education, but your chances are better. There are so many doors that open with a degree, it depends on what you really want to do.
If I had not had my degree I would not have been hired as a bank examiner, that opened the door to opening a mortgage company that changed my position in my RE investing, like kicking in the after burners.
A college education beneifts your quality of life in other ways than what you may do as a vocation or profession, but certainly in your perpensity to earn a living.
I dropped out of college because I couldn't afford it and was bored and 15 years later was a millionaire.
However, I wish I had stayed in college for the social aspect of it. Plus along the way, I have often thought that if my current job/business didn't work out I would have a hard time finding a job without the degree. Luckily that never came up.
I personally don't think anything in college will help you in becoming a private REI like us here. It might help if you have larger, more commercial desires.
I have an undergrad in Engineering Physics with a concentration in Aerospace Propulsion and I have an MBA from ASU. I was doing both jobs but I've been solo in Real Estate now for 2 years. My father is a General Contractor so I've been around construction my whole life.
I consider myself a highly successful investor. College is mostly a waste of time now, imo (here come the attacks!) but I did attend a couple years. I was studying for International Relations or International law- to use my fluent portuguese.
Very high % of grads can't find a job in their course of study, living with parents- and an article in Forture mag said over 50% of bartenders are college grads. Just go to work now as a bartender, build up a clientele and best of all- NO STUDENT DEBT!!!! Rich
you typed attend..did you mean to type "attended" college?? i would be super impressed if somebody was investing full time and paying for college simeltaneously...i consider myself successful but have miles to go and learn, as we all do...i did go to college as well, but that was a while ago, and i was an education degree..meaning, just about nothing learned in class has been used for my business besides networking, etc.
I think you'll find that most people who went to college and finished are satisfied with their decision for having done so whether it helped their investing career or not. Those who did not go or did not finish just don't know. Not that they aren't happy or successful, but you can't convey first hand knowledge of the complete value of something you don't have, never had or only had part of.
In several of the Robert Kiyosaki books it mentions his first book published in 1984 called: "If you want to be rich & happy - don't go to school." Have searched for a copy to read, but there seems to be none available.
Agreed Brian, I didn't go as a kid as you should do, I went on the GI Bill, one of those social programs you know, and selected a major that was expected to be applicable to business, it was still a great time even being older, with a family while working full time.
If you major in underwater basket weaving, it may not help you much except for the social aspects, which is an important part of maturing. Bottom line, there are few uneducated rich guys and birds of a feather flock together. If you can't carry yourself socially, you'll have a difficult time being really successful. And as Rich said, you could get ahead as a bartender, it's a social interaction where you'll meet people, without other people, you will have a hard time at anything. Just IMHO.... :)
Funny how he would say that, but then also say that his biggest financial catapult was his high paying job he took with Xerox out of college. He would not have gotten that job without a college degree.
Bill Gulley, I too did not go as a kid, so I have a full appreciation of what life looks like as an adult on both sides of the education coin. I majored in engineering and am better off for it. My wife just got a degree in Spanish and her job oppurtunities increased 10 fold.
All the detracting about college grads living with parents and bartending and all that crap is ridiculous. Yeah that happens and it even happens in good economic times. From what I understand, [b]unemployement is around 8 percent, but for college grads it is closer to 4 percent. So those who did not graduate from college have an unemployment rate WORSE than 8 percent.
Most successful investors talk about hedging. As Eric Michaels said, he was lucky that he did not find himself in a position to need to look for a job having not completed his degree. Nothing better to hedge your investments than to be employable and/or have a special set of skills.
I recently attended a meeting and offered my knowledge and my company billed 100/hour for my time - because I am a highly trained, college educated engineer. I have the option to start my own consulting company charging the full amount (and sharing more in the expenses). 99 percent of consulting work out there is done by college educated people. You cannot even get a license to practice engineering without a college degreee anymore.
Right after high school, I took an interest in real estate investing. Looking back, it's kind of funny because I had no money, came from an undercapitalized family, and looked even younger than I was. I took a business law class at the Junior College, then decided that I'd rather invest in real estate than go to college. It took me ten years to get the business to the point that I could quit my job and go full time.
Still no degree from formalized education, but I have an MBA from the school of hard knocks. Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment. I made some mistakes along the way (who hasn't?) and those mistakes cost me more than an ivy league degree, so whether you get a degree or not, your education will cost you.
Is there value in a degree? Sure there is. A lot of people that work for me have a degree. :)
I majored in History with a Political Science Minor. Thought I was going to be a lawyer! Glad I deviated from that track. I like my sleep too much!
That said, while I didn't use my college for my career, I met my wife there and some of my best friends on earth. It may be an expensive social habit, but was worth it to me.
I am currently attending college. Computer Engineering major, and wholesale properties full time. Even though I may or may not use my degree, I feel like I have to at least graduate with my degree because my father has his phd, and mother has a masters degree. One of my older sisters already has her degree, and my other sis attends Texas Tech working on hers. So it's basically a must have for me.
Consider who his target audience is and why it might be financially valuable to him to espouse this view...everything he says and does is for money, why should this be any different?
Brian H – lately, I'm not finding the majority are happy about their college expense and results. I'd say the ratio is closer to 50-50. According to the articles that I've read, there has never been a time when more college graduates have been living with their parents than the present time. Also, the unemployment rate is extremely high between those aged 19 to 26. I don't disagree with you that the unemployment rate is higher for those that didn't graduate from college. I know I have hired quite a few college grads – but not for work in the field they studied......
Spencer – just curious. I've read that approximately 1/3 to 1/2 of college graduates do not and in an occupation for which they studied in college. You have a father, mother, and sister that all graduated. If you care to share, what did each graduate in and what profession did it lead them to? I have a guess that your father is a teacher/professor. Correct?
I'm not trying to diss on education. A couple of my favorite books are The Millionaire Mind and The Truth About Money (and then New Rules About Money). Both have some interesting viewpoints on College. Yes, college grads make more over lifetime , on average. However Edelman points out that there are TWO types of wealth-Income wealth and Asset Wealth. On asset wealth, with the costs of college and the loss of income producing time while obtaining a degree the non college person wins...
Here was his final statement on page 32- "When it comes to your ability to accumulate wealth,it just might be true that college does more harm than good"
Remember- I'm just the messenger. Yes, I realize there are other items to consider-Great social skills, interaction training, meeting a spouse etc, etc etc. The love of profession is extremely important, but some are actually NOT a good investment. Rich
There was one season of Trump's "Apprentice" TV show where it was street smarts vs book smarts (non-college grads vs college grads). In the end, I believe the non-grads were eliminated before the final episode, in the interviewing process that was being used. The non-college grads still had some impressive background nonetheless.
But you still hired them.....over non-degree holders I assume.
Kind of ironic that you are referencing an academic's theory to support the theory that learning theory is *potentially counterproductive.
"Might" included in the "final" statement does not lend much confidence to this reader (me).
All of the financial benefit I get from my education has been specifically from the technical knowledge I gained. My personality has helped me a lot as well. That was actually shaped between time I dropped out of high school at age 15 1/2 and went to college at age 24. I graduated at 28 and am just about to wrap up my master's at age 33 that my company is paying for while I work full time. Personally, I think college would have been a lot less useful to me had I gone at an earlier age. Ironically, it wasn't until I went to college and suffered the hardship of college "poverty" that I learned to evaluate what was truly important to me and what was not. Making a pretty decent income (about 50K/year) as a non-educated person pigeon holed me into what I was doing and I got used to a lifestyle I found hard to give up to save money for investing purposes - didn't even really think about it. Really, the only thing rattling around in my empty head was that next 3/4 ton truck I wanted to buy. Education and exposure to more mature people/minds is what really changed my perspective on life and broke me from the bondage of conventional thinking so that I can now make better life decisions. People like Rich Weese were able to do this without school. That is great.
I don't agree that most people will transform their own thinking on their own. I disagree that outside of college, the odds are very high your life will intersect with that outside influence to change its mundane course. I disagree that working in a field diffferent from what you studied is less than optimum. I disagree that people who have not completed a degree can convey the actual value. I disagree that money is the only thing worth investing in. I disagree with the notion that this country would be better off if more people concentrated more on making money and less on making themselves better people. I disagree that current trends in employment and polls of VERY young adults should control the decisions that people make that have long and lasting impacts on their lives - such as deciding not go to college because the history major who decided not to go to law school cannot find a job in todays market.
I would BET, that most self made millionaires without college degrees would encourage their kids to go to college.
I think you're right about this. I'm a self made millionaire that didn't go to college. I have two young children that I do want to go to college.
The only problem is that my wife and I disagree on a couple of things. I only want to pay for their education if they're going to study something profitable - law, medicine, business. My wife wants to pay even if they want to study art, political science, or become social workers. Fortunately, they are very young and we have time to talk about it.
I do not want my kids having jobs that only pay five figures per year. I have told them from day one that they should plan to work for themselves. I see when I go to school functions and field trips that there are not many dads there. It's nice to be able to set my own schedule and not miss everything.
I graduated with a B.S. and M.S. in Computer Engineering. This has let me work in that field for over 15 years, and I continue now, so I can feed my family. I'm late to the game of real estate investing, but I PLAN to make a lot more money. Does that count?
tl;dr
I think this evaluation of people today getting jobs or not in their field needs to weighed properly. If you look in fields like Chemical/Computer/Petroleum/Civil/other Engineering, I think those people are much more successful at finding jobs, because we need those people more than ever. There seem to more programs today than I heard of years ago that people study that sound frivolous to me like highly specialize history classes and other things i better not mention to avoid a flame war. Those aren't so successful.
When you average the former with the latter, the results look relatively dismal. If you look into specific majors, some are probably much high than others, indicating where college is useful and where it is not. Heck, I hear about people that go to college with a dream to ONLY work for a non-profit institute. That is certainly cutting off your odds of finding something.
I also chuckle when Dave Ramsey asks, "Do you know how much more we pay someone from Harvard? $0."
Rob K,
I agree with you that college, as well as any major decision, should be considered carefully. I read articles about these young unemployed college graduates with degrees in.....sports administration? Duh. Now, not everyone is going to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. But even someone with a degree in sports admin can get a job as a cop. And a cop, overall, makes a comparable salary to an engineer. A teacher starts off well, but doesn't increase much in pay. Almost anybody with a pulse and a college degree can get a job as a teacher.
I will not make six figures for probably another 5 years and barely at that on my current career course. I am okay with a middle to high 5 figure income since I am doing things on the side to supplement. By the time your kids are adults, if they are very young now, inflation might make a 6 figure income a necessity.
I've probably shared too much on this thread as I haven't really even addressed the OP, but I just have a lot of passion for education now after seeing how much it has benefitted me and others close to me. My guess is that the OP, 22 years old, is looking for rationalization for NOT going to college. Well, if you don't want to go, don't. If you do, do. Simple as that. Considering you could expect to die between the ages of 65 and 90, a 25 year span, that 4 to 6 years in college, even if wasted, would not have to devastate your financial prospects. There is a built in assumption that one MUST borrow TONS of money to go to school. There are scholarshisps, grants and help from family that can go a long way. Scholarships can be especially abundant if you are flexible on what college you attend. Going to the community college for the first two years can really take a load off. Tution for a full load at the local community college here is a whopping 700/semster here. That is huge considering the university charges about 5000/semester. A savings of more than 20K if you go year round including summers.
Brian- A lot of good points, and I'm not arguing them with you. You set an education goal and are achieving it. That is great!
The college grads I hired -most would've been selected without a college degree.
Both authors are from world of academics, but that isn't where the Book info- One gained his Book info from interviewing successful people and compiling it into averages etc. The other one became a consultant and his info was also compiled in a way that allowed him to make some observations.
"Might" comes in a chapter after 3 pages using specific examples etc and the final sentence had already been explained in detail. Edelman also followed up his interviews with another Book called Ordinary People Extraordinary Wealth. Great stories .
On your chapter of "I disagree"...I never said concentrating on making money should be # 1 and never suggested it. I agree with the author that found # 1 concern with the millionaires interviewed was "loved his job". Many teachers love their job and we love them, but strictly the R.O.I (unless you teach in Chicago) is not great STRICTLY from an income basis.
I'm one of those "self made"that encouraged my kids to leave home at 18 and make it on their own, and actually pushed against college due to the ridiculous costs and the changing job market. Many studied a certain subject only to find it completely gone, or seriously reduced in job options. I do have 1 of 6 grads.
I hope you're correct that times will change for future college grads finding a large selection of opportunities. Sorry, I don't see it and time will tell. Thanks for posting without it being an attack. Like politics and religion-there are differing views on benefits of college also. Rich
p.s. One caveat- I have a couple grand kids in College. One will be fine... Will graduate in Entrepreneurship from # 1 college in the nation. He has to START a business prior to graduating. I REALLY like that combination. Education and entrepreneurship.
Rich Weese,
I agree with you that college doesn't garuantee success. I think, though, that based on your own experience, you are quite biased (as am I). You have your opinion highly biased toward non-college grads making good decisions and college grads making poor decisions. What happens more often than not is the other way around.
I am not sayin this applies to you Rich, as clearly it doesn't, but I know MANY people who are successful, particularly in the technology industry, who started but did not finish school and really wish they did. Not because they'd make more money, just because they regret quitting on a major commitment. There is just some psychological importance to it for them.
You say you would have hired those applicants had they not dgrees. But in truth, those applicants would have interviewed and presented themselves completely differenly had they not been college eduated - strictly comparing both scenarios to the same person.
You are an extreme outlier and ver intelligent. Intelligent enough to realize that your story is and will always be quite different than most and that what worked for you is highly unlikely to play out the same for most. For example, how many one and done, or better yet, none and done wholesalers are out there?
Yes you did confine your points to ROI, and I did toss that money over personal improvement in there. That was less directed at you than in general to the argument against college.
What you contribute here, whether I always agree or not, is generally well thought out, thoroughly addressed and well communicated. That is A-typical of 90 percent of non-educated people. But then, you are educated, you just never finished college. Do you think you would not be a millionare now had you finished? Do you think you would be so much less well off that you would rhue haveing wasted you time? I doubt it.
Not sure financially where I'd be. I wanted to be involved in International Relations and go back to Brazil and use my Portuguese. I have no idea what I would have made or whether I would still have gotten into real estate. It would actually have been more difficult living in Brazil for sure. I never went into real estate thinking I would get rich. As you probably already know my story, I went into real estate because my first broker gave me all the commission and enabled me to purchase a duplex and the rest is history. I'm not sure I would've ever found real estate if it hadn't been for this broker, so I really don't know how to answer the what if.
My gut feeling has always been that a successful person (use what ever definition of successful you want, happy, financial, piece of mind) would be successful no matter what he went into. It has always been said in many professions like real estate that 10% make 90% of the money and the other 90% scramble for scraps.
Good conversation Brian and I'm sure it gives different points of view for the OP to consider. Have a great weekend. I'm going to Vegas! Rich