How many of you SUCCESSFUL investors..
Real Estate Investor · Center Moriches, NY · Member since 2011 · 163 posts · 4 votes
I'm curious as to how many of you SUCCESSFUL investors attend college (how many years) and what did you study? are you doing both what you studied and real estate? or only real estate?
Consider who his target audience is and why it might be financially valuable to him to espouse this view...everything he says and does is for money, why should this be any different?
I have a four year Degree in Business Administration, back in 1982. While it helps with a general view of the entire Business World, I learned more working for one year as a Real Estate Broker in a busy Real Estate Office.
Here is the real kicker. My last semester in college was DOUBLE the price of my first semester, 100% price gain in just four years.
Elementary and Highschool are important. I think college is a great opportunity for a fun social experience, but not necessary. I went to college - great fun, friends, social... what a waste of money tho, other than that.
But really, where else can you go to build life long friendships living a shared reality during the physical peak of your adult life?
that said, if you go to a highly reputable/connected school, you can't get really get that anywhere (the membership/alumni connections too). college might be worth it for those kinds of connections tho. :)
I believe there is still a ton a value in getting a college education (not just from class), but I was not willing to go into great debt to get that value, so I figured out a way to get it paid for. Sure, I had to give four years of military service, but the experiences during those four years has been invaluable to me. In school I got a Political Science Degree, although looking back I wish I would have stuck with business.
I have a bachelor's in Business Administration with accounting as my major and I qualified to take the CPA exam (which now requires basically a masters to do because they figured they were cramming too much info into a 4 year degree) but I didn't take it because I knew for sure that I would never want to work in public accounting. I did happen to take one real estate elective course in college, not because I had a for sure plan to get into real estate investing, but just because I had always been interested in real estate.
Even though I really haven't used my degree much at all, I'm still very glad that I got it! Now, I also went to a state school (in my state) so my tuition was downright cheap compared to friends who went to private or out-of-state schools, so I graduated with ZERO college debt!
I never attended college because I never saw myself as a smart person, and didnt think I'd fit in, plus I was raised a farmer and only wanted to graduate high school so I could get working for a living. I was raised in a low middle class household and while it seemed like we were always broke, i did have all that i needed and then some. Living that way through my teens did teach me the value of money that most of my other friends that had money and went to college didnt get. At age 18 and tired of being broke, i figured i had nothing to lose and plenty of time to fix it if i did screw up.
25 years of basically working as a real estate investor everyday, (investors know this program,) I'm a self made double digit millionare. I have only a small handful of friends that i can call on a wednesday afternoon to go golfing with me, the rest of my friends that went to college have to wait till the weekend when they can get off of their jobs ( that they mostly all hate with a passion,) and golf with the rest of the 9 to 5 ers. But in their defense, I do feel that i missed out on some sex, drugs, and rock n roll good times. But if i had to go back, I would'nt change a thing. Some of my most costly, and important lessons that i was forced to learn the hard way, college would not have helped me avoid anyway. That being said, I want my kids to go to school, (if they take something that will help them in the world.) I'm by no means knocking college. My Best friend ,( who is really smart, went to college and is doing really well,) says my lack of booksmart education probably is the reason for my success, because no one ever told me that the way i did things was all wrong as far as college professors were concerned. School of hard knocks for me.......
Sean
James...... one of my regrets is not doing a little time in the military, The older i get the more i think Americans would be way better off if we required some Military service for every Young person before they got started with their lives. See things most people never get to and learn a little discipline and respect along the way....
Sean
Having a college education and a degree in a health care related field nonetheless has allowed me to expedite my real estate investing career by allowing me to take more risks.
It's easier to sleep at night knowing that if I lose my initial investment I could always just go back to my 9 to 5 and be a normal disgruntled employee - for a few years until I have enough savings to try it all over again.
Without my college degree and without the security I have in my day job, I definitely would not have been so eager to take the risks I took starting out.
So, yes, graduating college and majoring in a marketable and in demand profession has been a vital part of my real estate success. Essential? Probably not. Progress would definitely be slower, though.
I have a PhD in Educational Psychology and an MBA from U of Iowa. I will say that education is what you make out of it. I just quit my job and will start my start my real estate investment career in June.
This discussion about the possible benefits of a college education is quite interesting. First, I find myself agreeing with a particular poster, and then they post again later, and I disagree with almost everything that they say in that particular post.
That somehow seems mighty curious to me.
It also seems clear that having a college education does nothing for helping people spell. If an education isn't of any use for the very basics, is the traditional educational system effective at all?
I think that learning "useful" stuff is important to engage in all of your life. Since you won't know what is "useful" and what is "useless" until later, I make it a point to learn as much as possible all the time.
The reason why self-made investors want their kids to go to school, is because few offspring of self-made investors are interested in how their parent made their money. Thus, a "fall back" plan is called for.
I initially went the route of the community college due to terminal cheapness on my part and that of my mother. I do not recommend it. You get what you pay for. I was getting an "F" in FORTRAN programming, even though I was interested in the subject. I couldn't understand what the problem was. I dropped out of the class rather than take my first ever "F". I wound up dropping all my classes, due to being unable to make the transition to having to study for the first time in my life.
When I enrolled at a trade school a year or so later, it was well run. The first course that they taught us was "Learning To Learn". The teachers were actual programmers, who made their living at their day job, teaching only for the pleasure of helping new programmers. The entire course materials were presented on computers, allowing for individuals to choose their own pace. I was still the same person that I was in Jr. College. I was no different in terms of motivation and ability. The same guy that was failing in Jr. College completed the entire FORTRAN segment of the programming course in THREE DAYS! Yes, it caused a bit of a stir, but it finally dawned on me that the problem was the lowly paid, lowly status professors that worked (?) at the Jr. College, not me.
Trade school was no better than college in one respect. I never used anything that I learned in school in real life, with the possible exception of the "Learning To Learn" course. I've had to teach myself everything that I really needed to know, usually while under pressure to complete some job immediately, if not sooner. This approach probably wouldn't work very well for an engineering professional, but you get the point, I'm sure.
In case anybody wants a rich person's opinion on the value of a college degree, may I point out that one of the richest men in the world is a college dropout? Yah. Bill G. voted with HIS feet. I wonder how many more billions he would be worth today if he had completed his degree, heheheh...
Are you familiar with Bill Gates' views on higher education? Given your comment above, I think you might be surprised... :-)
No, I was not familiar with his views at the time that I wrote my post. Thank you for alerting me to the need for me to check it out.
I read the transcript of his 2012Jun25 interview with Jeffrey R. Young, published by the Chronicle of Higher Education. Thus, as far as this article reflects Mr. G's views, I understand what he thinks of higher education.
Mr. G's foundation invests in: "...globally, it's really health, agriculture, things having to do with helping poor people, and here in the U.S. it's education—because these are tough-enough problems."
In other words, it sounds to me as if Mr. G thinks that he can best help the world by taking the most ignorant situations and turning them around. It is profoundly funny that our educational system is so broken, that Mr. G thinks that he should spend his foundation's dollars on attempting to modify the system, instead of "helping poor people". He agrees with me that education isn't very effective, which was almost my very first point.
His most telling statement, in my opinion, is ""Even though I only have a high-school degree, I'm a professional student."
As I also stated, I spend a lot of time learning, and I believe that this needs to be done for your entire life. Mr. G STILL has not earned a college degree, and as I am fond of saying, "Actions speak louder than words." Mr. G has reasons for not getting a college degree. I'm guessing that some of those reasons are because Mr. G wouldn't be learning what he wanted to be learning, (he would have to learn useless stuff, in other words), and he has no use for a college degree. No matter what you say about any other of his words, (30% completion rates for typical universities, almost absolute lack of metrics for measuring performance, competence and anything else that might need measuring in order to determine effectiveness, clueless professors and administrators who don't even know what works or why), you come away with the impression that he is profoundly dismayed by the current state of our educational system, and wants to radically change it to something else, even though he admits to being clueless as to what that actually would look like.
The few hints he has managed to acquire, seem to indicate that completely reversing priorities and activities for classroom time and homework might turn out to be much more optimal than current practices.
All in all, I am quite pleased that you encouraged me to do some investigating. I am satisfied that my points appear to be echoed by a much richer person, who has substantially more credibility than I currently have. I see nothing to indicate that Mr. G's views differ in any significant way from my own, with the notable exception that Mr. G still believes that the primary input tool on campuses will continue to be the keyboard, (and therefore, giving people tablets wouldn't make that much of an impact).
Mr. G has personally held back the progress that the human race could have made more than any individual human being in history by his implementation of this incredibly shortsighted and foolish notion, which he has held since the beginning of the computer era.
Otherwise, to me, he sounds right on target about the mess we are in educationally speaking.
I have been looking at this site for a while and saw this topic and decided to join, just to weight in.
Success is relative. I did not complete higher education. Most of the time I wish I had but I was young and let life and money get in the way. A great many people might consider me successful. I make a decent living (low six figures) have a house, kids, cars and toys. But I feel like I am not successful at all.
I have been interested in real estate investing for a decade but never did anything about it. I feel like, for me, success would be doing something that I enjoy. You see, I am a computer programmer. No I didn't go school for it. It kind of just found me. 20 years later I am sitting at a desk doing something that I am good at but it is sucking the life out of me!
I would so much rather be putting up drywall and laying sod. Real estate is the only way that I can see to get me out of my current situation. I have been lurking on this site trying to learn and see if it is possible to do. I bought a package from "Carlton Sheets" 12-15 years ago and felt like it was a total waste of money. Most "investing" sites I have seen seem to be pushing you to buy their program. Not interested in doing that.
Success isn't always about the money you make but rather the life you make. Most of the last 10 years I have wished I could live on a lot less but have foolishly put myself in a situation that I have to keep programming.
Success is the ability to do something you enjoy and have it pay for what you need.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Lance
Lance.....
Don't want to Hijack this thread. Your in a great position to find a deal. You already have all your needs met and have the time to look for a killer deal, so go for it. Life is too short, get out there and buy an investment property. After the butterflies are gone of your first one you'll get better and it will be more fun. After a while real estate will consume your life in a good way and wherever you go you'll be looking for opportunities to add to your retirement portfolio. Ask almost any successful investor and you'll hear basically the same story. You sound just like me, sitting behind a desk would kill me, i'd rather be outside working with my hands in a pair of shorts and t shirt.
good luck to you....START NOW and don't stop until you've found a nice little money maker for yourself. Heck you live in a great market....get out there and be your own boss....
just my two cents...
good luck in your future
Sean
Barry Gysbers -
I have a slightly different take on his views of higher-education, but there's no reason to argue about what someone else believes -- we'll likely never know the nuances of his beliefs.
Though maybe he'll see this thread and chime in... :)
Regardless, I think it's safe to say that the following is a bit hyperbolic...
It doesn't matter how long he's personally held that view (and based on product discussions I've had with him, I'd be surprised if that's even an accurate view) -- even if you only consider pure technological limitations (Moore's Law), non-analog input mechanisms would only have only been viable on a cost-effective, large-scale for the past 10 years or so, hardly enough time to "hold back progress of the human race more than any human being in history."
If you want to give that distinction to anyone, I would vote for Pope Urban VIII, who pretty-much single-handedly discredited Copernicus and Galileo, and kept the heliocentric theory from taking hold for about 200 years, despite irrefutable mathematical proof.
That set us back about two centuries... :)
You're quite correct on at least a few points.
I would agree that it is probably pointless to argue with anyone about anything. And that especially goes for people that have their mind made up about the subject of the discussion before having actually discussed it.
I believe that this is an inappropriate forum for me to be discussing my views on Mr. G. I will likely modify my statement to one that is at least slightly less "seemingly hyperbolic" due to your concerns. I have no interest in stirring up controversy, particulary as I am still practically a brand new user here, and such actions will have no benefit to me that I am aware of. Unfortunately, I am irrational at times, as the correct action would be to simply delete the statement. I evidently still need to learn to eliminate making blaming sounding statements, even while I firmly believe that my position or viewpoint is fully justified.
I note that you have not addressed my central point in even mentioning Mr. G in the first place, (and related to the subject of this topic), which is, he is a college dropout, and has steadfastly refused to get a college or university degree ever since. His statement (I made it relatively easy to view the transcript of his interview for the purpose of allowing forum members to see for themselves what his actual statements were, rather than having to rely on my abridgements and interpretations), that he "...only has a high school degree..." shows his standard methodology in doing business as well.
I have a "certificate of completion" from the trade school that I went to. I have a "diploma" from the high school that I attended. Society does not regard either of these accomplishments as very significant, and neither do I. Consequently, I believe that for me, it would be a form of lying if I were to claim that I had "a degee" in anything whatsoever, as I have not obtained one by legitimate methods from an accredited university or college.
I find your highly developed sense of humor amusing. I would agree with you that the likelihood of Mr. G joining in on our discussion is about the same as the chances of his getting a college or university degree.
As for your choice of "most influential and destructive" retarder of human progress, I would be pleased to join in the conversation of what factors might be significant in coming up with a list of prospective candidates, if you care to start a new topic on that subject. I promise you a serious run for your money, heheheh!
Barry Gysbers -
He actually has an honorary degree from Harvard from a few years back that he graciously accepted, and even gave a nice speech while accepting the honor.
Among his remarks (http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2007/06/remarks-of-bill-gates-harvard-commencement-2007/:
"Harvard was just a phenomenal experience for me. Academic life was fascinating. I used to sit in on lots of classes I hadn
Wow! You are really going to make me work hard for this one, aren't you?
I don't think you gave up much more than about half an inch so far! I hope you're trying to teach me something useful...persistence, perhaps? Maybe this is the kind of thing my wife is always complaining about in my discussions with her...
Okay, I admit to having been totally in the dark about his accepting an honorary degree.
So, with your kindly consent, I'd like to modify two of my previous statements to more clearly and accurately reflect the point I wanted to make. Please note the trivial addition of 4 more words at the very END of my statement:
I note that you have not addressed my central point in even mentioning Mr. G in the first place, (and related to the subject of this topic), which is, he is a college dropout, and has steadfastly refused to get a college or university degree ever since by working for one.
I am pleased to accept the olive branch about the potential linguistic distinction between "getting an education", and "attending college and getting a degree", which in my opinion, is an entirely valid and significant point of distinction.
Now, as far as the significance of his HAVING an honorary degree goes, I'd say go watch the video of the interview given on 2012Jun25. The third video, "On the meaning of MOOCs" I heard an offscreen interviewer say "You are famously not a college graduate yourself." I then watched a person who is purported to be Mr. G fail to refute or deny this statement in any fashion.
I then later watched this same person move his lips in what appeared to me to be in perfect synch with the following words: "I'm, even though I only have a high-school degree, I'm, ahh, I AM a professional student."
I have no particular reason to assume that the Chronicle of Higher Education has tinkered with this interview video, nor have I any reason to believe that they have misrepresented him substantially, other than to edit out his verbal hesitations.
Assuming the truthfulness of the article and the accuracy of the interview, then, in my opinion, if as of 2012Jun25, Mr. G does NOT either consider himself to be a college graduate by defending his position or correcting the interviewer, nor to have earned anything other than a "high-school degree", by asserting this statement himself, then I'd say that we would do well to agree with him. Since he didn't earn it, I would agree entirely with his philosophy on this particular point, which in my opinion, shows unusual restraint on his part.
So, the next time you discuss poker with him, ask him point blank about it, and let us know the results of your discussion. I'm sure we would all be quite interested in your report, heheheh.
I would agree with you that the likelihood of Mr. G joining in on our discussion is about the same as the chances of his getting a college or university degree by going back to school and attending classes with other students and working for it.
Now, to help entertain our fellow forum members, who are undoubtedly getting bored by all of our semantic quibbles, I offer the following modification to the paraphrase of Balzac's not nearly so damning original quote. It was supposedly also used by Mario Puzo in the Godfather, but that interests me not at all sufficiently to look up to verify.
Behind every great fortune lies a great crime!
I'd like to be one of the first to dispense with the "crime" part...though I admit that it is taking me quite a while to figure out how to do this. Every system that I've looked at so far (both legal and not) appears to be so, well, predatory!
This thread seems to have turned into an arm wrestling contest between 2 people. The original poster asked several simple questions and neither of these are currently being discussed. Maybe we could get back to that and see some additional posters and thoughts?? Rich
Never mind... :)
"Promote in every order of men the degree of instruction proportioned to their condition and to their views in life."
- Thomas Jefferson
Concerning college, there are four categories that everyone falls in to:
1.) Attended college and regret it.
2.) Attended college and are satisfied.
3.) Did not attend college and regret it.
4.) Did not attend college and are satisfied.
Only YOU will determine which category you fall in to.
By Successful I assume you mean that I make more money then I could working a job. If that is true.
I have No college. I would never waste my time with it. I do not see it as a degree of superior intelligence at all. You waste more than half of your time studying worthless topics that do not even closely relate to what you have an interest in. I will put a good mentor at the top of a list to lead to success. If you can find an honest mentor that does more than sell his darn CD’ in the hopes of building an army of working ants that will find homes and be too afraid to pull the trigger so they send the home to him as a referral. Then you can find great success. Just remember law # 1. NEVER OUTSHINE THE MASTER.
I believe I am successful. I do know as well that I am not afraid of 16 hours days. So I may not make much at all if I divide it up by the hours.