Sight unseen offer

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Sight unseen offer

Carlyle Campbell
Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 2 votes

Hey guys, I have done a few deals but still wet behind the ear. I need some advice here. I live in Virginia where I reached out to a home owner who lives in another state who has a house that has been unoccupied for over a year. He wants me to make a cash offer sight unseen and I will not be allowed to get inside the property. What are some recommendations to mitigate this situation? 

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Matthew Paul:

Offer only the land value . 


And/or assume that everything is trashed and you have to rehab the entire house.

I have bought houses without going inside, but you can usually get on the property and look in some windows. check the roof, exterior siding, main panel, etc and get a pretty good idea of what the house will need. If you can't see certain rooms, like the kitchen, just budget for a complete kitchen. Do this for the whole house and then add on 20% for complete unknowns.

Realize that there is some reason that this owner does not want you to see the inside of the house, and plan accordingly. It can still be a great deal though...

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y

    Make sure you have some sort of inspection contingency in case the condition is unexpected 

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  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    2y

    Unless you have a way to view the property or get an inspection, I would not buy it....unless it is a tear down and even then you don't know what you are dealing with.

    1Reply
  • Manny VasquezBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Orange County · Member since 2022 · 317 posts · 293 votes
    2y

    Like @Russell Brazil advised above, make sure you write-in some sort of inspection contingency into the offer.  I would also hire a Home Inspector that is local to the property you are buying so that at least you can have some sort of "professional eyes" on the property.

    Hiring a home inspector might be more cost-beneficial to you too. Depending on the size of the property (I'm assuming its an SFR), a home inspection will set you back $300 - $450. Most home inspectors can turn-around and produce a report in about 24-48 hours after the inspection. If you said that the property is in another state, then I'm assuming you may have to catch a flight, rent-a-car, food, etc....which will easily cost you more money than just hiring an inspector outright. I hope this helps and good luck!

    0Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y

    Offer only the land value . 

    1Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Matthew Paul:

    Offer only the land value . 


    And/or assume that everything is trashed and you have to rehab the entire house.

    I have bought houses without going inside, but you can usually get on the property and look in some windows. check the roof, exterior siding, main panel, etc and get a pretty good idea of what the house will need. If you can't see certain rooms, like the kitchen, just budget for a complete kitchen. Do this for the whole house and then add on 20% for complete unknowns.

    Realize that there is some reason that this owner does not want you to see the inside of the house, and plan accordingly. It can still be a great deal though...

    5Reply
  • Carlyle Campbell
    OP
    Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    2y

    Thanks,  I did throw in a contingency in the offer, but I think he is pushing for me to make a cash offer without getting my partner who is a contractor and I into the house. The house is in my market where I reside. I was able to walk the exterior but was unable to see the inside. My observation the roof had to be replaced, its brick exterior, there is no hvac unit outside. Electrical panel seem to be up to code. There are some pine trees in the back yard that may need to be cut down. But I do appreciate you all advice. Thanks a lot. 

    0Reply
  • Kevin Sobilo
    Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    @Carlyle Campbell, did the seller provide a seller's disclosure document? In most states the seller is required to disclose any material defects they are aware of. There may be a few exceptions such as a foreclosure or the executor of an estate where they are not expected to have any first hand knowledge.

    Many for-sale by owners aren't aware they are legally obligated to disclose. They think like selling a used car they can say "as-is" and that relieves them of any liability. In most places that isn't true.

    I would get that disclosure especially since they seem to want to hide the condition for some unknown reasons. 

    2Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y

    Good point by @Kevin Sobilo. There is a reason that he doesn't want you to look inside. But in my experience, the disclosure form is provided after escrow is opened.

    So figure $10k for roof (might be some bad wood). Panel may seem up to code but is it newer and adequately sized? No AC condenser outside? What is the cooling system? Figure $5-10k, you might need a FAU also.

    Can you post a Zillow link?

    1Reply
  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    You price it is as if it's a tear down, that's why when you do go inspect it and notice it's horrible you're not stressed. When it's in better condition then a tear down, you win.

    If he doesn't accept that offer, keep it moving. You need to learn how to make a market.

    0Reply
  • Kevin Sobilo
    Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    Good point by @Kevin Sobilo. There is a reason that he doesn't want you to look inside. But in my experience, the disclosure form is provided after escrow is opened.

    So figure $10k for roof (might be some bad wood). Panel may seem up to code but is it newer and adequately sized? No AC condenser outside? What is the cooling system? Figure $5-10k, you might need a FAU also.

    Can you post a Zillow link?


    In my state, the disclosure is provided before the buyer makes an offer so that they are making the offer with full knowledge. The sales contract used by realtors in my state actually acknowledges receipt/review of the seller's disclosure.

    The seller's disclosure here is usually uploaded to the MLS and available to any realtor while the listing is active.
    0Reply
  • Steve K.
    Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    Good point by @Kevin Sobilo. There is a reason that he doesn't want you to look inside. But in my experience, the disclosure form is provided after escrow is opened.

    So figure $10k for roof (might be some bad wood). Panel may seem up to code but is it newer and adequately sized? No AC condenser outside? What is the cooling system? Figure $5-10k, you might need a FAU also.

    Can you post a Zillow link?


    In my state, the disclosure is provided before the buyer makes an offer so that they are making the offer with full knowledge. The sales contract used by realtors in my state actually acknowledges receipt/review of the seller's disclosure.

    The seller's disclosure here is usually uploaded to the MLS and available to any realtor while the listing is active.

    I saw the PA seller's disclosure recently while consulting on a deal there. It's awesome! Way more thorough than ours here in CO. Here the buyer usually gets the disclosure when under contract, during due diligence. Sometimes it will be in the MLS with the listing though.

    1Reply
  • Steve K.
    Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Carlyle Campbell:

    Hey guys, I have done a few deals but still wet behind the ear. I need some advice here. I live in Virginia where I reached out to a home owner who lives in another state who has a house that has been unoccupied for over a year. He wants me to make a cash offer sight unseen and I will not be allowed to get inside the property. What are some recommendations to mitigate this situation? 


     Vacant property, out of state owner, wants cash, can't get you in to see the house... these are all scam red flags. Are you sure you're dealing with the actual owner and not a scammer? 

    4Reply
  • Zeke Liston
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Carlyle Campbell:

    Hey guys, I have done a few deals but still wet behind the ear. I need some advice here. I live in Virginia where I reached out to a home owner who lives in another state who has a house that has been unoccupied for over a year. He wants me to make a cash offer sight unseen and I will not be allowed to get inside the property. What are some recommendations to mitigate this situation? 


     In my opinion, this is a sign of an unmotivated seller. I wouldn't pursue the deal unless you can convince them to allow access to an inspection. Good luck!

    0Reply
  • Samuel DioufBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus & Cleveland, OH · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    I would proceed with caution and make sure to add an inspection contingency. 

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  • Steve K.
    Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Carlyle Campbell:

    Hey guys, I have done a few deals but still wet behind the ear. I need some advice here. I live in Virginia where I reached out to a home owner who lives in another state who has a house that has been unoccupied for over a year. He wants me to make a cash offer sight unseen and I will not be allowed to get inside the property. What are some recommendations to mitigate this situation? 

    I'm old school. I get proof he owns the property before I worry about it. We can look up ownership on the county records here, I suggest you spend a few minutes trying that, but it's even safer to have a title report which runs about $65 to $95. Then I assume major damage, just to be safe if he won't allow an lookee see first. He's hiding something. 
    The last few scammers I dealt with had looked at public records themselves also and had done a pretty thorough job assuming the identity of the real owner, so just making sure the names match public records isn’t enough anymore. These days many of them have fake ID’s in the real owner’s name and can provide a (fake) copy of the deed. I’ve gotten in the habit of skip-tracing the owners info from public records for starters, and also their spouse and any other family members I can find, as well as the neighbors surrounding the property/ talking to as many people as necessary to confirm the seller is who they say they are and is actually selling.  Usually spending a few minutes skip-tracing and talking to anyone I can find with knowledge of the property uncovers the fraud if it is indeed a fake seller (most often the number that my skip-tracing software computes is different than the one the scammer is using and when I call it I get the real owner who is surprised to hear that someone is selling their property). If I can’t confirm 100% by sleuthing that way and talking to people, then I have the seller provide whatever proof they can that they really own the property, and also have my title company run an O&E, part of which is snail-mailing a letter to the owner in public record’s primary address so the owner gets notice that their property is for sale and hopefully call the title company and ask what’s going on if they’re not actually trying to sell. I’ve also gotten good at busting fake ID’s lately. Some of them are pretty convincing, others are obviously fake like using generic font for the signature like you’d see in a docusign sig, birthday or other info is wrong, edges are blurry, photo is of a different person than the owners social media profile pic, etc. I actually met with a PI who showed me what to look for and that helped a lot. These scams are getting more and more sophisticated, many are actually getting by title companies, so they need to up their game IMO. Mobile notaries/ any sellers using their own notaries to sign closing docs shouldn’t be allowed anymore. Too easy to forge the notary stamp/ just impersonate an actual notary as well as impersonating the owner. Title companies need to insist everyone use a trusted notary, not just any random remote notary, and take additional steps for any remote closings such as holding funds in escrow after any remote closing until they can 100% verify that they’re not going to be wired to a scammer overseas. No one should assume the person they’re dealing with is the actual owner until they can prove it 100% these days. Red flags are not being able to meet at the property in person (usually they say they’re on a business trip or currently living overseas and they’re usually “really busy”, no time to chat small talk about the property or FaceTime with you or anything like that, etc.), not allowing access to the property (these are often vacant land deals or sometimes vacant houses), wanting to close remotely/ use a mobile notary or their own title company that is also out of state, wanting only cash offers with few contingencies, no “for sale” sign at the property, willing to sell the property for less than fair market value for a quick sale (often there’s a story that they need money quickly for their husbands surgery or some other emergency), they often have a foreign accent, and only want to communicate over the phone or electronically (for some reason they always use an outlook email and many prefer to communicate through WhatsApp). Vacant property scams are so common right now, it’s super important to verify that you’re dealing with the actual owner and not a scammer! End of PSA lol, good luck out there people. 
    3Reply
  • Nadeem Alamgir
    Real Estate Agent · Member since 2023 · 831 posts · 577 votes
    2y

    Hey Carlyle, Seller sounds unmotivated here. Sounds like the seller is trying to brush you off.


    I would follow up and let them know you're serious about an offer but they need to let you do your due diligence.

    Rely, you have done a few other deals and are serious. If the seller keeps brushing you off, I would follow up and try to get them to meet you at least half way. 
    0Reply
  • Carlyle Campbell
    OP
    Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    2y

    Kevin the seller do not want to have a conversation, his actual words were make him a as is cash offer for $150k. So I throw into the offer contingent on an inspection, clear title , repair cost in excess of $50k and disclosure statement . So I am waiting to she if he accepts. He prefers text message over verbal conversations but he always have very little to nothing to say. 

    1Reply
  • Carlyle Campbell
    OP
    Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    2y

    @Nadeem, seller comes of real arrogant none the less I maintain professionalism, he wants nothing short of $150k. 

    0Reply
  • Carlyle Campbell
    OP
    Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    2y

    @Steve 

    @Steve K.I appreciate the incite, very lengthy but informative. I did make mention that the deed need to go thru escrow. But the seller seem very tight lip as if he is actually hiding something. I will definitely keep in mind all that was said, thanks much. 

    1Reply
  • Carlyle Campbell
    OP
    Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    2y

    @Zeke. Thanks much. Will do. 

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Carlyle Campbell:

    Hey guys, I have done a few deals but still wet behind the ear. I need some advice here. I live in Virginia where I reached out to a home owner who lives in another state who has a house that has been unoccupied for over a year. He wants me to make a cash offer sight unseen and I will not be allowed to get inside the property. What are some recommendations to mitigate this situation? 

    If you've got to ask if you should be Making sight unseen offers, you should not be making sight unseen offers. When/if you get to the point in your career where you are ready to start doing this, you'll know. You aren't there right now.

    4Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Carlyle Campbell:

    @Nadeem, seller comes of real arrogant none the less I maintain professionalism, he wants nothing short of $150k. 


    Well then, the question would be - how do the numbers look if you end up paying $150k ? What are your plans for the house - Flip? LTR?

    I'd pay a GC to walk the exterior with you and give you his opinion. Most experienced GCs can give you a real close number just by a walk-by....

    0Reply
  • Carlyle Campbell
    OP
    Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    2y

    So my plan is to hold it as a short term rental since I already have one in that area that is performing well. Then cash out refinance out put new debt on it . My partner who is a general contractor and I walked the exterior and already made an assessment and compared it to the cost of our last rehab. 

    0Reply
  • Caleb Brown
    Real Estate Agent · Kansas City · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    Run, way too many red flags and seller does not seem realistic 

    0Reply
  • Carlyle Campbell
    OP
    Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    2y

    James one of my contingency is that I be able to walk the property for information purposes and to allow me to cost the repair that should not exceed 40% of the purchase price, clear marketable title. 

    0Reply
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