Are these internet/Instagram flipping "Gurus" legit? Let's debate

Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 47 votes

I've been flipping houses for 15 years, and it's not easy. Hard work, visits to the sites, contractor fallouts, problems, attorneys, etc, etc. It happens all the time. Lately I've been noticing an increase in the amount of posts/reels/ads on IG about these so called "gurus" of flipping, who are flipping 20,40,100 houses per month from their "couch" and who swear they don't even know what the properties look like or have even set foot in these "flips" they say the own. It's like they are telling us they can give you a software that will magically do a flip for you without you lifting a finder. What's your take on this? Am I being too old school here? Would you give them your money to access their "proprietary" system? Let's discuss

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Mike Dymski

Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

Social media is a dumpster fire. I stick with books, podcasts, and real people that are successful.

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Dom Radcliffe
Investor · Newton, MA · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 27 votes
3y
I do not believe them. I agree with you.

If it were that easy, they would not have been wasting their time on IG selling their “brilliant ideas/software” for pennies. It is just a pyramid ‘ponzi’ scheme!
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Fernando Figueroa
OP
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Dom Radcliffe:

I do not believe them. I agree with you.

If it were that easy, they would not have been wasting their time on IG selling their “brilliant ideas/software” for pennies. It is just a pyramid ‘ponzi’ scheme!
Totally! Also, why would someone give you their “secret” for a couple thousand dollars to have more competition if they can just do it themselves and not have someone else competing with their own “magic software”. Super crazy!
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Jeremy Horton
Rental Property Investor · Somewhere over the Rainbow · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
I think most of them are phonies renting lambos, jets etc for photoshoots
They are advertisers and marketers not real flippers. There may be a few legit ones but 99.9% of them are fake
It's all clickbait and marketing in my opinion
Biggerpockets has gone that route a few times as well - "21 Year old owns 800 doors" - give me a break. It's fake. It's clickbait. It's 100% leveraged with daddy's money. I used to investigate slightly into some of these people and it's a bunch of fake BS 99% of the time. There's ALWAYS more to the story!
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Nate Sanow
Investor & Agent · Tulsa, OK · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
It happens, yeah, fake people for sure. Lots of times its just wholesaling which I don’t get why that area always is the fakest but yeah.
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Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
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Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
3y
@Fernando Figueroa
HELL NO
It’s all clickbait. If you look at most gurus they do the guru thing because they can’t make $ in real estate
I am in the note space and several of the guru’ are scam artists with lawsuits against them.
It’s easy to lie on social media because you don’t have to provide any legitimate info to it to substantiate it
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Fernando Figueroa
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Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Fernando Figueroa
HELL NO
It’s all clickbait. If you look at most gurus they do the guru thing because they can’t make $ in real estate
I am in the note space and several of the guru’ are scam artists with lawsuits against them.
It’s easy to lie on social media because you don’t have to provide any legitimate info to it to substantiate it

There's a few on here as well...
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Galen Ikonomov
Member since 2021 · 256 posts · 213 votes
3y
Okey.
Can we start putting names out there, so we all know what are you talking about?
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Derick Bonsu
Investor · Washington, DC · Member since 2018 · 93 posts · 54 votes
3y
I think you already know the answer to this question. I'm also generally not sold on social media personalities, unless the person has a long track record across multiple legitimate touch points. Tik Tok and IG are the most suspect ones for me. I also don't watch random videos from people I'm not already following, so I guess I don't run into these gurus people seem to talk about.
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Galen Ikonomov
Member since 2021 · 256 posts · 213 votes
3y
Quote from @Derick Bonsu:

I think you already know the answer to this question. I'm also generally not sold on social media personalities, unless the person has a long track record across multiple legitimate touch points. Tik Tok and IG are the most suspect ones for me. I also don't watch random videos from people I'm not already following, so I guess I don't run into these gurus people seem to talk about.
Derick, no I don't.

I can definitely agree that BRRRR is not as easy as someone might tell you and sell a course to.
However, lotsa people are still doing the business in the old ways, INCLUDING ME. What I mean by that is we don't trust anyone or we have not tried to delegate most of the work, hence doing millions from the couch. Most of the legit BRRRR people that are famous out there have built a system that allows them to make millions sitting at home.

So I want to know exactly who we are talking about?
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Eliott Elias
Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 9k+ posts · 5k+ votes
3y
It's all a sales tactic to reel suckers in. Anyone whos'e flipped a home knows it will never be completely hands off unless you own a construction company and have the proper employees in place, even then it's not hands off. It takes years of experience before you can be flipping from your couch
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Fernando Figueroa
OP
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 47 votes
3y
I’ve seen a lot lately but the most popular ones are Antoine Martell, Thach Nguyen and some lady I forgot the name
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Jack Tulloch
Lender · Austin, TX · Member since 2022 · 473 posts · 586 votes
3y
Fernando - unfortunately, this online "coaching" has become extremely popular in real estate and other forms of investing. Seems like some of these people are making more money off their "coaching" or sessions than they are from the actual strategy they are teaching people about. I think some of them can add great value but people will be better off seeking out a true mentor who is willing to help for reasons other than the money.
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Daniel Creech
Ferndale, WA · Member since 2015 · 4 posts · 4 votes
3y
@Jack Tulloch
I think it was Michael Scott or Brandon Turner, or possibly Mark Twain that said, "When everybody is digging for gold, it’s good to be in the pick and shovel business"
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Mike Dymski
Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
3y
Social media is a dumpster fire. I stick with books, podcasts, and real people that are successful.
3 Reply
Bob S.
Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Fernando Figueroa:

I've been flipping houses for 15 years, and it's not easy. Hard work, visits to the sites, contractor fallouts, problems, attorneys, etc, etc. It happens all the time. Lately I've been noticing an increase in the amount of posts/reels/ads on IG about these so called "gurus" of flipping, who are flipping 20,40,100 houses per month from their "couch" and who swear they don't even know what the properties look like or have even set foot in these "flips" they say the own. It's like they are telling us they can give you a software that will magically do a flip for you without you lifting a finder. What's your take on this? Am I being too old school here? Would you give them your money to access their "proprietary" system? Let's discuss

THERE NOT flipping 100 a month, doing nothing. I have done about 500 ( for rentals) over 7 years, not bad. But I was very lucky (amazing how lucky you get when you work hard) I connected with two guys from Israel that had a group of buyers. Gurus, I do not listen to any of them. I have never read a RE book of been to a guru seminar. Most people make it so much more difficult than it needs to be. Simply connect with those that provide properties, vs reading, researching, analyzing and spinning your wheels
All the best
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Fernando Figueroa:

I’ve seen a lot lately but the most popular ones are Antoine Martell, Thach Nguyen and some lady I forgot the name

I dont know about the two you mentioned but I think Martell is just a turnkey provider.. I seem to think or remember he was selling property in
geary indiana which is well U probably know what.. but like most turn key guys I suspect he is working multiple markets as well. but I dont think he is selling system I could be wrong .. just selling low end rentals.
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Carlos Ptriawan
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
who wants to learn about flipping from Instagram and TikTok :) lol
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

who wants to learn about flipping from Instagram and TikTok :) lol

I have never looked at either of those sites.. nor twitter.. :) so a little behind the times I guess.
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Mohammed Rahman
Real Estate Broker · New York, NY · Member since 2020 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
Hey @Fernando Figueroa - come on, the 21yr old multimillionaire house flipper that wakes up at 3am and grew up in the slums and meditates for 26 hours a day standing in front of his jet and pink lambo that he made all from 6 minutes of flipping is totally legit.
99.99% of them are marketers, regardless of whatever field they're in. They're the same people that would have been snake-oil salesmen if this were a few years ago.
That being said, it's still hard to not make the comparison and feel like I'm an idiot for not being where they are - that's why I keep social media off my phone until I need to update my content or engage with my network.
Keep grinding man.
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Marty Boardman
Real Estate Investor and Instructor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2010 · 303 posts · 332 votes
3y
When I hear someone claim that they "flip" 30, 50, 70 houses a month I automatically assume they are wholesaling. And I suppose this is possible if you have the right team in place and don't mind spending 25K + per month on direct mail, SEO and text message blasting.
That said, there's a HUGE difference between "flipping" houses and fixing and flipping a house. I've done both and each takes a very specific set of skills.
Wholesaling requires you be good at sales, marketing (i.e. lead generation and follow up) and transactional operations. To fix and flip you've got to be good at time management, people management, budgeting and design. In my experience it's rare to find an investor that is successful at wholesaling AND fixing and flipping.
I do believe there are honest coaches out there that have legit programs. I won't drop names because I'm not sure that's allowed in these forms. But my criteria for investing in ANY coaching is simple: if the coach/mentor/guru is getting results for themselves AND for their clients then they can most likely help you too.
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Guy Gimenez
Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
Learn to vet the gurus and you'll figure out real quick most are making a living selling courses, not selling real estate. Nothing wrong with that but they're not being honest most of the time about their real estate holdings / experience. It's like the guy who say they own 12 doors or own 4 apartment complexes, when in fact they're merely a 3% to 5% investor in these products. If I buy $1,000 Dell stock, it doesn't make me the owner of Dell, it just makes me a shareholder. When I get someone trying to pitch me, I always ask them to send me the last 5 HUD's for properties they purchased in the last 2 months. Oddly enough, I never hear back.
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Marty Boardman
Real Estate Investor and Instructor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2010 · 303 posts · 332 votes
3y
Quote from @Guy Gimenez:

Learn to vet the gurus and you'll figure out real quick most are making a living selling courses, not selling real estate. Nothing wrong with that but they're not being honest most of the time about their real estate holdings / experience. It's like the guy who say they own 12 doors or own 4 apartment complexes, when in fact they're merely a 3% to 5% investor in these products. If I buy $1,000 Dell stock, it doesn't make me the owner of Dell, it just makes me a shareholder. When I get someone trying to pitch me, I always ask them to send me the last 5 HUD's for properties they purchased in the last 2 months. Oddly enough, I never hear back.

I agree it's dishonest for anyone that's selling coaching/courses to claim they're an active investor if they haven't done any deals in the last 12 months.
That said, just because someone isn't active in real estate doesn't mean they can't be a great teacher/coach/mentor. Bill Belichick is one of the greatest football coaches of all time and he's 70 years-old. He hasn't suited up to play the game in over 50 years. But he knows how to evaluate talent, install a game plan and get the most out of his players.
Personally I prefer a coach that only does coaching. If they have another business, whether it's real estate, marketing, e-commerce, etc. then I don't get their 100% focus. But as you pointed out Guy, vetting is very important. If the guru can't prove their results with real testimonials from past clients then that's a major red flag.
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Guy Gimenez
Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
@Marty Boardman

I think it's safe to say that coaching / playing football hasn't been affected by court cases and legislation like real estate has. Personally, I don't want to receive coaching from someone who hasn't bought or sold real estate in 10 years even if that coach will give me 100% of their time and all their knowledge from a decade ago. I don't want a doctor who hasn't performed a surgery in 10 years directing another physician who is doing my surgery. I want a coach who is actively engaged in the industry and who is current on legal strategies that will impact my decisions.
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Marty Boardman
Real Estate Investor and Instructor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2010 · 303 posts · 332 votes
3y
Quote from @Guy Gimenez:

@Marty Boardman

I think it's safe to say that coaching / playing football hasn't been affected by court cases and legislation like real estate has. Personally, I don't want to receive coaching from someone who hasn't bought or sold real estate in 10 years even if that coach will give me 100% of their time and all their knowledge from a decade ago. I don't want a doctor who hasn't performed a surgery in 10 years directing another physician who is doing my surgery. I want a coach who is actively engaged in the industry and who is current on legal strategies that will impact my decisions.
Yes it's shame there are so many scammers out there taking advantage of people. There are probably a fair share of them and I think that is who Fernando is referring to on the internet/Instagram.

For what it's worth, I've hired 2 coaches over the last 4 years and neither of them had any real estate experience and knew very little about our industry. One of them is an expert at sales/marketing and provided me with excellent instruction on lead generation and negotiating with sellers. The other coach was a retired business owner that has been out of the game for 20 years. What I learned from him about raising capital and structuring deals helped me scale my business and expand to another market.

If my only criteria for choosing them was...I need to see your last 5 HUDs over the last 2 months...I would have never hired them to help me and I might still be stuck trying to figure it all out on my own.
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