Disaster tiling job

Rehabbing & House Flipping

Disaster tiling job

Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes

I hired two professional tilers to tile one of my properties.

Their quote was $500 more than another estimate I received but I felt like they were professionals who I could trust to do a good job.

Indeed they have been reliable and professional in conduct, so I've been satisfied from that perspective. I was going to give them a massive project after this but now I'm hesitant after seeing the shoddy work.

The job is almost done and I've inspected it and it's some of the worst tiling work I've seen.

Firstly there is meant to be a pattern maintained and the pattern has been abandoned. Every second tile is meant to line up however it's completely freestyle.

There are huge gaps in various areas and some tiles are crooked.

I messaged the tilers when I saw this and he said the gaps and crooked tiles were caused from foot traffic by other contractors. I don't know the validity of this claim.

I'm extremely disappointed and upset and I want to rip it up and have it redone properly but I don't have the time or budget for that.

Here are some pictures. Am I being over the top or is this poor workmanship? Do I have any other choice but to simply move on?

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Most Popular Reply

Contractor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 651 posts · 510 votes

10y

@Nat C. That's just a bad tile job...much beyond being caused by premature foot traffic. If you want it to look nice, you'll have to start over. I would not use them on any other projects.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but, ultimately you are responsible for the final finished product on your projects. Saying that you have neither the time nor budget to correct this or produce good work in the first place, is unacceptable and unprofessional on your part.

It is worth the effort and money to find and use true professional tradesmen.

See this reply in the discussion

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Maggie Tasseron
Investor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2015 · 215 posts · 64 votes
10y
This is a joke! I do all my own tile and this looks like it was done not only by someone who has no experience but also doesn't care how it looks. Even my very first tile job looked 100% better than this. Depending on the kind of tile it is, you may be able to salvage most of it; hopefully they were inexperienced enough that they also didn't use enough thinset to stick it down properly. I wouldn't even trust these people to try taking it up; maybe try pulling up a few tiles yourself to see how easy or difficult it will be but there's no way you can leave it like this. You already have good photos that will probably ensure a win for you in court. Tell these guys they either need to give you a full refund or you will sue. Period.
I'm sure I don't need to add that paying up front was a bad idea. I used to be a painting contractor as well, and I never took payment until the job was done...and I had to pay up front for the paint whereas mostly the customer pays for the tile so tilesetters don't even have an initial outlay. Sorry you're going through this and I hope we here on BP are being of some help.
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Nat C.
OP
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
10y
Thanks Maggie. Of course the BP community has been a major help as always. I didn't pay the entire sum up front. I was staying 2 hours away from the property and had a friend inform me of their progress and I made 3 payments of $500. I am supposed to give them another $300 on completion. It never even crossed my mind the work would be so dodgy as they seemed professional and talked about their extensive experience. The main guy kept on whinging that they were 'working for peanuts' and the next job they did for me wouldn't be so cheap.
0 Reply
Patrick Lynch
retired...going stir crazy · Andover, MA · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 5 votes
10y
Wow ...that is a complete and utter disgrace... if you let these fraudulent asshats slide they will go on to rob someone else... call a lawyer and pray they have liability insurance. they totally misrepresented themselves... you've been mugged!
0 Reply
Gregory Emmer
Licensed Mortgage Lender · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2014 · 98 posts · 13 votes
10y
What does the contract say exactly? Are there any provisions relating to craftsmanship that can negate payment or force them to either re-do the job or refund you your money?
0 Reply
Michael Leung
Investor · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2015 · 54 posts · 27 votes
10y
Were they licensed? In Arizona you can file a complaint with the Register of Contractors. They could lose there license if they have too many unresolved complaints. No idea if Florida is the same, but I would imagine there is a similar process.
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Patrick Lynch
retired...going stir crazy · Andover, MA · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 5 votes
10y
These guys sound like a fly by night operation. get even... report them for tax evasion online to the IRS... call them and ask them if they have insurance to see if they are legit ...you need to put these crooks out of their misery.
0 Reply
Nat C.
OP
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Patrick Lynch:

These guys sound like a fly by night operation. get even... report them for tax evasion online to the IRS... call them and ask them if they have insurance to see if they are legit ...you need to put these crooks out of their misery.
I could not find any license for him on My Florida License however he does have an active LLC thankfully.
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Account Closed
Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2008 · 169 posts · 73 votes
10y
I agree with the others...this has to be re-done. Eye-sore...sorry. If a buyer sees this, they will begin to question all other work on the house and ding you for every dollar they can get.
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Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
10y
I am curious , if this bid was $ 500 more than the next bid . How much was the job and did that include materials ? How many sq foot was it ?
0 Reply
Blake Smith
Washington, DC · Member since 2015 · 9 posts · 1 vote
10y
I run a very successful tile company and I can say that this is a horrible install. I agree with Aaron. Tile setting is a bit of an art and you need to find a very good one. Perhaps check with some of your local tile stores and ask if they have a "preferred installer" list. Most of them are pre-screened to do good work. We are on several in the DC Metro area and the others on such lists typically do good work.
1 Reply
Nat C.
OP
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:
I am curious , if this bid was $ 500 more than the next bid . How much was the job and did that include materials ? How many sq foot was it ?
$1800 for 900sq ft.
I had to buy all material (tiles, thinset, grout, tile spacers, cement board etc and deliver it to job site.
Yes there were guys quoting cheaper but I thought no way, I'll end up with problems.
0 Reply
Guy Gimenez
Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
@Nat C.
Sorry, but that is not a tile job, that is snow job. I'm glad these guys were nice and talked a good game because there is nothing in their work that indicates they've ever done prior tile work. Ugh.
Cut your losses...tear that garbage out now and get a professional as those goons aren't capable of making it right.
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
10y
@Nat C. we only deal with a flooring and counter top store that is of substantial size they have nice show rooms you work with a designer.. you may pay a little more .. but you only pay Net 40 In other words you pay only when the job is done NEVER a dime up front. WE don't pay ANY of our contractors or Subs up front for anything.. If they can't afford materials and to front labor then they are too hand to mouth and your going to run into issues with them when it comes to defects just like your doing here.
When we order our flooring and tile it all comes color coordinated and if its not right we don't pay and they rip it all out and do it again.. there are many times this happens Maybe not all the tile but a little here little there. And if they get grout down in the vents we back charge them for having to clean that up...
Now I understand that this is not feasible in all markets especially for rental make readies.
But that's how we do it.
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1 Reply
Alicia Hensley
Port Townsend, WA · Member since 2015 · 60 posts · 6 votes
10y
This has happened to me before also. The guy I hired said he said he's had years of experience, done a ton of jobs like this, blah blah blah. I only asked him to do a small shower and floor in a small bathroom. It took him an entire day to do 1/3 of the shower. When I went down to check his work it was BAD, I had to tear everything down quickly...luckily it didn't ruin all of the travertine that I used. I fired him the next day and cancelled the check that I had written (I had purchased the materials, so he wasn't out any material money).
So, for the future, always check on their work during the process and it's okay to fire someone in the middle of it if they don't do the work you need them to do. I know you may feel weird about standing over their shoulder...but it's your money they'd be wasting if they do a terrible job.
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Doug N.
Lynnwood, WA · Member since 2015 · 221 posts · 157 votes
10y
It looks like this gent has years of experience - in rehab.
Sorry to hear of your misfortune. It's only after something like this happened to me that I began to tighten up on subs - ie really looking hard at references and only paying when satisfactory work is completed.
These types of experiences make it so much easier to be a hardass, esp if you're naturally nice to people all the time and take everyone's word at face value. Not that one needs to be a difficult and unpleasant person to subs, but just super protective of one's investments. If you care a lot, they will often follow your lead.
1 Reply
Mark Gallagher
Flipper/Rehabber · Allentown, PA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 701 votes
10y
@Nat C.
As others have said, I could do a better job with my eyes closed (seriously).
Any reputable contractor does not "need" payment upfront to get started. If they're that poor, they're obviously not working, and not that good at their trade.
There were plenty of warning signs here. No contract. No license. Very low price.
Rip it out and do it again. Lesson learned, move on.
1 Reply
Todd Campbell
Investor · Mc Lean, VA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 48 votes
10y
After I learned how to tile I started to see all sort of mistakes in commercial work. It drives me nuts. These pictures make me want to rip these out and redo the job right. I am so sorry that you are going through this. But jobs like these are why I have a hard time trusting anyone to do a good job.
Good luck!
-todd
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Steve Babiak
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Nat C.:

...
The main guy kept on whinging that they were 'working for peanuts' and the next job they did for me wouldn't be so cheap.
You could have hired a crew of monkeys and paid them in peanuts literally and gotten better results than what this crew did :)
Tell them the "next job" is not on the immediate horizon ;)
1 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Nat C.:

Originally posted by @Patrick Lynch:
These guys sound like a fly by night operation. get even... report them for tax evasion online to the IRS... call them and ask them if they have insurance to see if they are legit ...you need to put these crooks out of their misery.
I could not find any license for him on My Florida License however he does have an active LLC thankfully.
Nothing to be thankful for. An active LLC means you'll get nothing. The LLC will have no assets so won't be collectable and you won't be able to get a judgment against him if he's operating out the LLC. Don't let them come back to the job. He'll threaten to sue for the remainder, but he won't if he's unlicensed, and if he did, you'd answer the complaint. Get a reference and get a better contractor out there to see what parts, if any, can be salvaged. Have them quote removal and install on the rest.
Nice shoes for the job site visit btw.
1 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Doug N.:

It looks like this gent has years of experience - in rehab.
Don't know how I never heard that one before. Bad, bad contractor joke. But so funny.
2 Reply
Dennis Jayy
Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2015 · 85 posts · 22 votes
10y
Part of the education process! When I make mistakes like this ( choosing the wrong people) I take the blame for not doing my due diligence.
However the work is obviously bad and you say they presented themselves as professionals with bond and license. I usually do not fool with any courts and just add it to my education ( but I think , in this instance you should go to court. It will be good education for you and a good remembrance for the future.) You should take a lot of pictures from different directions and make sure you have something on the floor to show the different reliefs and problems. Then I would get a professional ( perhaps from a store and get them to look at the floor and give you a written opinion, knowing they might well be asked to testify later. ( pay them ) After you get it well documented then get it fixed or replaced and then you will have great pictures of the after floor. Make sure you send them three registered letters asking them to repair or replace as needed to agreed work standards. It is important that you allow them the right to make it good ( even though they will probly refuse.) ( If they should happen to want to fix it you can hire someone to watch over them.)
Then you are ready for court,
If you have the pictures and samples of good work, your paper work and inspected from a reliable person I cannot see how you would not get your total money back up to the limits of the court. Document any expenses you occur as to getting estimates inspections time and ect to add to your court papers for reimbursement.
Do not forget to write letters to the licensing board, city licensing dept, and any one else you can think of.
If you go to court go prepared or do not go at all!
1 Reply
Chris K.Pro Member
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 655 votes
10y
Sorry you have to deal with this. This is one of my biggest fears and one of the reasons I've learned to not pay till the work is done. That job is without question piss-poor, I feel like it would actually take extra effort to do such a bad job.
1 Reply
Nat C.
OP
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Gregory Emmer:

What does the contract say exactly? Are there any provisions relating to craftsmanship that can negate payment or force them to either re-do the job or refund you your money?
The only mention is-
"ARTICLE 5. GENERAL PROVISIONS
1. All work shall be completed in a workmanship like manner."
My other contractor came yesterday who is repairing other parts of the property. He had a look at the tiling and pointed out a bunch of additional stuff ups. If you stand in the hallway there is a MAJOR curve. The tiles, being linear, do a wave from one end of the hallway to the other. I don't know how I didn't notice it as on the side where the wall is they've had to cut extra random tile bits to make up for the curve. It's now the neighborhood spectacle with the neighbors coming to check out the shocking tiling job. This is an affluent neighborhood.
0 Reply
Nat C.
OP
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Dennis Jayy:

Part of the education process! When I make mistakes like this ( choosing the wrong people) I take the blame for not doing my due diligence.
However the work is obviously bad and you say they presented themselves as professionals with bond and license. I usually do not fool with any courts and just add it to my education ( but I think , in this instance you should go to court. It will be good education for you and a good remembrance for the future.) You should take a lot of pictures from different directions and make sure you have something on the floor to show the different reliefs and problems. Then I would get a professional ( perhaps from a store and get them to look at the floor and give you a written opinion, knowing they might well be asked to testify later. ( pay them ) After you get it well documented then get it fixed or replaced and then you will have great pictures of the after floor. Make sure you send them three registered letters asking them to repair or replace as needed to agreed work standards. It is important that you allow them the right to make it good ( even though they will probly refuse.) ( If they should happen to want to fix it you can hire someone to watch over them.)
Then you are ready for court,
If you have the pictures and samples of good work, your paper work and inspected from a reliable person I cannot see how you would not get your total money back up to the limits of the court. Document any expenses you occur as to getting estimates inspections time and ect to add to your court papers for reimbursement.
Do not forget to write letters to the licensing board, city licensing dept, and any one else you can think of.
If you go to court go prepared or do not go at all!
Thank you for the good advice Dennis. I've never been to claims court so I have some research to do. If they allow it I would like to do a walk through video to show how the pattern/layout changes constantly and to show the waves. The tiles are also not flat and if you slide your hand/foot across the floor there are constant edges sticking up from the ground. It's hard to see how bad it is using an iphone camera and I will definitely engage a professional photographer to take a few details pictures.
It's funny to read people's comments here because the pictures I posted don't even show many of the problems.
0 Reply
Manon Pfluger
Real Estate Professional · Berlin, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1 post · 0 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Nat C.:

I hired two professional tilers to tile one of my properties.
Their quote was $500 more than another estimate I received but I felt like they were professionals who I could trust to do a good job.

Indeed they have been reliable and professional in conduct, so I've been satisfied from that perspective. I was going to give them a massive project after this but now I'm hesitant after seeing the shoddy work.

The job is almost done and I've inspected it and it's some of the worst tiling work I've seen.

Firstly there is meant to be a pattern maintained and the pattern has been abandoned. Every second tile is meant to line up however it's completely freestyle.

There are huge gaps in various areas and some tiles are crooked.

I messaged the tilers when I saw this and he said the gaps and crooked tiles were caused from foot traffic by other contractors. I don't know the validity of this claim.

I'm extremely disappointed and upset and I want to rip it up and have it redone properly but I don't have the time or budget for that.

Here are some pictures. Am I being over the top or is this poor workmanship? Do I have any other choice but to simply move on?
That is a terrible job. Above that, if ever you have a flood in the room and tiles start cracking into pieces, homeowners insurance will not cover cost of replacement due to tile not being layed right. I went thru this same scenario. My tile looked 100% better than this. My fridge sprung a pinhole leak and destroyed my tile flooring. I found out porcelain tile is better to use because it doesn't absorb water.
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