Luxury vinyl plank over ceramic tile?

Plainfield, IL · Member since 2016 · 139 posts · 53 votes

Wondering if I can place luxury vinyl plank flooring right over existing ceramic tile without having to level the grout lines. The grout lines themselves are not much deeper than the top of the ceramic tile(See picture below). I'd rather not demo the existing ceramic tile, since my budget is pretty tight, and that will take a decent amount of time(For about 800 SF).

If I do need to fill the grout lines, what is the easiest and most cost effective solution? I've been reading some other media about this, but with the grout lines being small and not that deeper then the top of the tile, I can't image the vinyl planks 'dipping in' due to the slight imperfections of leveling.

This is the type of flooring I am looking to put in, since it looks nice, its waterproof, and solid choice for wear-and-tear. Thoughts?

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Jim Adrian

Architect · Papillion, NE · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 840 votes

If you decide to go over the top of the ceramic tile it could affect all your door swings over the new flooring. Verify the door clearance.

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Marshall Downs
Investor · Benton Harbor, MI · Member since 2013 · 257 posts · 140 votes
9y
Seems risky to me @Adam Juodis. I've used vinyl plank in commercial applications and it follows the contours of the substrate fairly well. I believe it will be very visible and if you try to level it you could have some adhesion issue with the leveler/grout to the vinyl adhesive. It could be one of those things you do and regret when done or could prevent a sale depending on installation.
My first recommendation is to tear out the tile, but If you absolutely want to keep it I recommend going with a floating floor, either laminate or even click lock hardwood. Put a foam underlayment down and you shouldn't have any issues. Unless of course the tile fails!
2 Reply
Austin Fruechting
Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2017 · 791 posts · 1k+ votes
9y
I can't say because I don't know why you wouldn't just tear out the tile. I can't imagine it would dip.
If money is tight all it takes is a hammer to start the busting it up, then a $20-30 flooring scraper (floor scraper, floor tear out scraper), a set of contractor trash bags and spend an evening or a day going to town yourself?
5 Reply
Claude S.
Investor · Savannah, GA · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 62 votes
9y
Check out Coretec luxury vinyl planks. Should be able to go see over the ceramic tile just fine.
1 Reply
Luc Boiron
Specialist · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 564 posts · 425 votes
9y
@Adam Juodis it depends on the vinyl plank you use. I believe you would be ok for many years with one of the thicker products. The thinner version will show the lines soon enough. Also be careful because the ceramic tiles don't look perfectly flat until the grout joints, they often curve close to the grout joints which increases the chance that thinner planks will show through.
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Ante Vujic
Specialist · Coloma, MI · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 13 votes
9y
@Adam Juodis Take a look at trafficmaster allure luxury vinyl. We use it on concrete and sometimes over tile and we have never had an issue.
1 Reply
Dale Riola
Flipper · Plainfield, IL · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 9 votes
9y
what about covering the tile with 1/4" underlayment. You would probably have to adhere it to the tile with construction adhesive. It runs about $20 a 4x8 sheet, Just a thought.
3 Reply
Adam Juodis
OP
Plainfield, IL · Member since 2016 · 139 posts · 53 votes
9y
@Austin Fruechting the entire unit is covered in these tiles. (Also, 4 units in the building) I'm trying to do a quick rehab turnaround time, and only have a decent amount of times on the weekend. A weekend spent on just busting up tile would be valuable time lost. I'd rather just build up over it, but still not sure-might have to bust the tile out. PS, congrats on the retirement!
@Ante Vujic Yeah i was looking at either getting the Allure or Trafficmaster brand luxury vinyl. Both have very good reviews.
@Dale Riola What type of underlayment, like plywood right on top of the tile, and put some adhesive over so it doesn't move? Could be a possibility, but not sure if I can afford to go up 1/4" + the size of the vinyl since it might mess with the door heights and other features in the unit.
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JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
9y
You can put a thin layer of foam underlayment over the tile which should absorbe the bulk of the irregularities. I would use something along the lines of what's used for laminate floors.
I have used both as well that you are considering, and I will say this: if you use the Allure with the grip-strip, they're so thick that you'll never notice the difference especially if you put down a thin underlayment. If you use the click-together vinyl, they're a little fussy if the floor height changes too much - though I will say that we have one unit with a massive clawfoot tub right on top of the click-vinyl, and it has never come apart.
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Jim Adrian
Architect · Papillion, NE · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 840 votes
9y
If you decide to go over the top of the ceramic tile it could affect all your door swings over the new flooring. Verify the door clearance.
6 Reply
Matt M.
Investor · Indianapolis In · Member since 2013 · 47 posts · 19 votes
9y
I believe Mapai Planipatch is rated for this purpose. Featherfinish from Ardex might be as well. They aren't cheap but it would be cheaper than pulling up that tile and patching the subfloor. I wouldn't do this if the tile is cracked or loose.
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Craig Anfinson
Investor · Urbandale, IA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 4 votes
9y
post an ad on craiglist for general labor, pay 15.00 per hour, provide the tools and get the tile out, and then put a new 1/4 underlayment. it will then last for years, not an area you want to cut corners on,
2 Reply
Sam Shueh
Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
No tile. Home Depot pay to get them ripping off.
1 Reply
Eric Munson
Rocky Hill, CT · Member since 2014 · 200 posts · 56 votes
9y
@Adam Juodis - I just had a similar situation at a fix and flip house. I went over tile in kitchen rather than pulling all the old tile up. I used cortec and it looked great and is very durable. It's a little more pricey than Allure but I was using in a $250k flip and needed a higher end finish. I would use click lock rather than adhesive strip but either way you should be fine. Good luck.
1 Reply
Michael Bishop
United States · Member since 2015 · 401 posts · 394 votes
9y
Another thing I'd check on is the height of your current trim. If you do end up going with a floating floor, you'll need to lay shoe molding (easier option than replacing the trim completely) and it could end up looking rather stupid if the trim is too short as a result of leaving the tile in.

That being said, if you do decide on a floating floor, look in to Home Depot's Allure ISOCORE. Looks good, is 100% waterproof, has a good warranty, awesome reviews, has underlayment attached, and you can install it with half a brain. Just got done laying some down myself.
First pic is pre purchase, second and third are post flooring, pre shoe molding:
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Adam Juodis
OP
Plainfield, IL · Member since 2016 · 139 posts · 53 votes
9y
Yeah, I was definitely eyeing the Allure Vinyl planks. I stopped at home depot, and they certainly seemed sturdy enough not to cave in at the small grout line points where the tiles meet. The only way I could imagine caving is somebody putting a lot of concentrated pressure right on the small area of the grout line.
Still getting a bunch of mixed responses though. My worst case scenario is that I dedicate an entire weekend to ripping out tile. I can put in underlayment over the tile, but I also have to watch the height of the floor, and that it won't clash with the doors swinging out and other structural features. Do you guys think a thin foam underlayment would solve any potential grout line issues(Such as the one in the link below)?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/TrafficMASTER-Standard-...
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Michael Bishop
United States · Member since 2015 · 401 posts · 394 votes
9y
@Adam Juodis - a lot of the Allure Vinyl planks have underlayment pre-attached, so laying an additional layer yourself is unnecessary, which makes it even easier.
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Zachary Myers
Hershey, PA · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 0 votes
9y
Adding to Matt M. comment about using mapei, ardex and henrys etc. would be your best bet. As being a flooring contractor you can go to Lowes, home Depot any box store and find feathering compounds to fill in the grout joints. depending on the grout joint size and depth you may need to put 2 coats down on the floor, between each coat us a scaper and knock down any high spots and repeat the processes. Then you're ready to strike some lines and start to glue. Hope this may have help, any other questions feel free to DM
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Brett Dawson
Professional · Brecksville, OH · Member since 2017 · 43 posts · 9 votes
9y
It's certainly an option to go over the tile but be sure you check your thresholds and doors because you will raising the finished floor elevation. That will be your biggest inhibitor. A chipper hammer or demo hammer will remove that tile pretty easily. If it was installed with wire mess you can pull it up without a power tool in a couple hours.
0 Reply
Adam Juodis
OP
Plainfield, IL · Member since 2016 · 139 posts · 53 votes
9y
@Zachary Myers How hard is it to use those liquid leveling substances? I've never used them before, and I'm no pro at installing flooring (Installed laminate a couple of times). I fear that I would mess up the floor level even more by potentially not spreading it even over the entirety of the surface, or am I scaring myself for no reason? haha..
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Luc Boiron
Specialist · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 564 posts · 425 votes
9y
@Adam Juodis Don't use the foam underlayment with vinyl plank. They are meant to be installed directly on a hard surface, not with a squishy underlayment. If you are that worried about the grout lines, go with the underlayment and laminate.
However, I would recommend you just go with Home depot Allure. Go with the click product, the gripstrip stuff is thinner and more likely to have the issues you are worried about.
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Joshua Howaniec
Contractor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2016 · 267 posts · 144 votes
9y
I am a flooring contractor and we come into these scenarios all the time. I dont know why you arent going to tear out the tile but it doesbt matter. You absolutely CAN go right over the tile IF you get a product that has a pad attached or you lay a pad before you lay plank. While you can also glue down the vinyl plank you will feel the irregularites in the floor in that case which you dont want. Get a good vinyl plank with an attached pad or roll out a good pad beneath your plank.
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Zachary Myers
Hershey, PA · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 0 votes
9y
@Adam Juodis Ardex featherfinish is not an liquid leveling substance but an cementitious product that comes in a 10lb. bag, you mix it with water until it looks like very creamy peanut butter. Then you us a flat handled trowel and firmly apply the mix on a 45 degree to the floor, let dry approximately wait jam30 mins to dry. then us a scarper knock down the high spots and repeat the process one more time.
After all that us your product and go around to all the bases of the door jambs cut them to fit. Then find your marks to where you would like to start and chalk a line for your starting point, you need to us a pressure sensitive glue and spread the area to which you want to start. The glue should be dry to the touch. Then its time to set your LVP to your chalk line and your off to the races. hope this help!
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Crystal Tutela
Odessa, FL · Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes
8y
Here is a great video on luxury viny plank flooring directly over ceramic tile. There are also update videos on how well the floor does.
https://youtu.be/0UFO2-Efw7E
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Kurt Brauner
Real Estate Broker · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2017 · 70 posts · 65 votes
7y
I just completed 800 sqft of LifeProof planks over 12" ceramic tile in a recent flip. I was apprehensive about not removing the tile but took the chance as worst case scenario we remove and relay the flooring. It was a very sturdy product with padding. The end result was the same as what we normally lay over concrete foundation, needless to say I was pleased with the outcome.
0 Reply
Nicholas Caldwell
Rental Property Investor · Columbus, GA · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 6 votes
7y
My wife and I just put the vinyl plank over the tile in the bathroom on a flip and it turned out just fine. My wife filled the slightly lower grout lines with some calk and that leveled it perfectly. One warning with that is I did have some adhesion issues in a couple areas as I was laying the flooring but I just added some construction adhesive and it worked great. As others have said be sure there isn't any broken tiles or any majorly uneven places. The people that did the my kitchen in the house we just purchased failed to do that and there are several spots that you can feel whatever is underneath the planks when you walk over it even with shoes on. Best of luck
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