Window replacement, what do you do?
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Rental Property Investor · Greenwich, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6yWhy are you replacing the windows, @Jim K.? Unless they have failed in some way (broken glass, rotted frames, etc.) it's almost never worth replacing them. The payback period is like 20+ years. If it's a matter of drafts and energy efficiency, consider storm windows.
77 Replies
- 6yJim K.Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votesOP
Originally posted by @Amy A.:
Nobody has mentioned lead paint. It's a big problem where I live. If a child in your unit tests over the limit for lead, inspectors will go in and test the unit and will probably find lead paint somewhere, typically in the windows. They will be forced to move, at your expense, and you'll have to get on the waiting list for a licensed lead abatement company to go in and charge you about quadruple what it should cost to make it "lead safe". This could be another reason to replace old painted wood windows with vinyl while units are empty.
Lead is always a problem in our older houses here as well.
- Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes6y
Current paying $120 for window, $75 for labor
- Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes6y
Hi @Jim K., Just went to Menard's and bought 12 builder grade Jeld-Wen's on sale for a 120 year old rental during the last 11% off storewide thing they do. I'll tell hubby & handy you're doing 30% more windows than they have to do-- so they'll know that It could be worse. hahahah. Is that mean?
- 6yJim K.Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votesOP
Originally posted by @Jill F.:
Hi @Jim K., Just went to Menard's and bought 12 builder grade Jeld-Wen's on sale for a 120 year old rental during the last 11% off storewide thing they do. I'll tell hubby & handy you're doing 30% more windows than they have to do-- so they'll know that It could be worse. hahahah. Is that mean?
I used to have a girlfriend in Greece who made up a boyfriend for her work friend and constantly told me manipulative stories about what a great, selfless guy he was. She made him a taxi driver, because after long association I just hate all Athens taxi drivers. Every time she came home, it was, "Sotiris did THIS for Gianna, and then he did THAT, and then he gave Gianna THAT, and wow, Sotiris paid for a weekend trip THERE..."
I ended up renovating two apartments for her with no pay, so she was definitely on to something. But after I figured it all out, I broke up with her by sending her a cell phone message from a seat on an Airbus on the runway of the Athens airport, as the engines warmed up for takeoff for my flight back to the USA. My mom, sitting next to me, referred to that message as "The Jimmy Special" for the rest of her life.
As long as Mr. F is sure that I'm real, you should be in the clear.
- Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
While it is easy to forum-quote the best-case scenario with windows (and doors), it's just as easy to over-look (and forget) the times when it doesn't go that easy.
- Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Jim K.:
I have 18 windows to replace in the next few days. To keep my interest up and to keep myself accountable, I'm starting this thread. I am a self-managing DIY landlord specializing in 70-100 year old SFR properties in my city and its near suburbs. How do you handle window problems in your properties? Do you contract it out to a specialized window-replacement company, hire a handyman, or DIY it? Why? What kind of properties have you changed windows for? Do you prefer to fix or improve the existing windows?
I'm late to the party, but I would rather replace than repair old windows.
I used to hire a handyman to do new window replacement jobs, but now I prefer to call in a specialized window-replacement company. The skill level of handymen varies wildly, and in the end, I've found that I pay about the same price total for parts+labor. So I might as well go with the company, because their workers do window replacements all day every day and I know they'll do it professionally and quick.
I'm talking about windows for houses built in the 1920s-1960s, where I plan on replacing the entire window.
If it's an older style window and it needs a pane replaced, I do that myself. It's one of the few things I can do myself. :)
- Youngsville, NC · Member since 2017 · 27 posts · 14 votes6y
@Jim K.
If they need replacing I do them myself although I have not had to do 8 at a time. I usually update with more energy efficient ones when it comes time to change. If I had 18 to do though I would likely contact it out.
- Wholesaler · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 306 posts · 133 votes6y
Hello Jayden! Even though I've been in construction for about 30 years and quite talented I recently admitted that it was better to use professionals and get and got about 20 of my houses done in one day with new exterior trim based on a recommendation by one of my neighbors and I was able to be more productive myself. It probably would have taken me at least one week and if I did it. I had only worked with old cranking windows and I may have been too careful doing that to make sure I was doing it right and I probably didn't have all the tools it would take. Just get a reliable reference and stay more productive unless you could not be. That will probably save you travel expenses, one-use tools, and time and the wrong education.
- Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes6y
You should call someone to come and give you a quote. I use window world locally but they just did 8 Vinyl windows for me, including a 4x4 picture window, for $2100. It looks great, they installed them in a couple of hours, and I didn’t lift a finger. They’re guaranteed for life, as long as I own the property.
- Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2019 · 339 posts · 325 votes6y
@Jill F. I know a guy whose family started Jeld-win...even he says he would never put them in his house
- 6yJim K.Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votesOP
Originally posted by @Andrea Wiseman:
You should call someone to come and give you a quote. I use window world locally but they just did 8 Vinyl windows for me, including a 4x4 picture window, for $2100. It looks great, they installed them in a couple of hours, and I didn’t lift a finger. They’re guaranteed for life, as long as I own the property.
I called three people to give me a quote during last year's round of window replacement. Andersen blew me off over the phone with a quote of $990-some per the larger windows, 29×58. Sears came in second at $720 each. Last up was Home Depot at $540 each. It just makes zero economic sense to get someone out to replace windows in a C- class property like this, with this many windows to replace.
- 6yJim K.Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votesOP
Originally posted by @Randy E.:
Originally posted by @Jim K.:
I have 18 windows to replace in the next few days. To keep my interest up and to keep myself accountable, I'm starting this thread. I am a self-managing DIY landlord specializing in 70-100 year old SFR properties in my city and its near suburbs. How do you handle window problems in your properties? Do you contract it out to a specialized window-replacement company, hire a handyman, or DIY it? Why? What kind of properties have you changed windows for? Do you prefer to fix or improve the existing windows?
I'm late to the party, but I would rather replace than repair old windows.
I used to hire a handyman to do new window replacement jobs, but now I prefer to call in a specialized window-replacement company. The skill level of handymen varies wildly, and in the end, I've found that I pay about the same price total for parts+labor. So I might as well go with the company, because their workers do window replacements all day every day and I know they'll do it professionally and quick.
I'm talking about windows for houses built in the 1920s-1960s, where I plan on replacing the entire window.
If it's an older style window and it needs a pane replaced, I do that myself. It's one of the few things I can do myself. :)
Always good to see your posts, Randy, thanks for commenting. But I have zero faith in any window replacement company's employees. Around here, these are generally guys of sharply limited ability who can't make it on their own as general handymen, could never possibly turn their skills into $$$ buying houses like these, getting paid their $15-$20/hour to cut every corner they can. The "professional installers" who did the west wall of this duplex, for instance, sure they installed new windows and wrapped them, but they completely screwed up the trim and they never insulated the weight pockets.
- Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2016 · 716 posts · 313 votes6y
I always replace windows if they are trashed ,in a C area go with Alside ,Lowes ,Home Depot .Upper end neighbor hood match the area windows .
They are not too tough seen it done a lot I still will not jack with it .I can get it done average price I would not trust a $12 hour there is a reason he is only charging that amount .
I see lots of poor window install on flips get in and get out after a few years the poor install will show in all different ways .
- 6yJim K.Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votesOP
Originally posted by @Billy Smith:
I always replace windows if they are trashed ,in a C area go with Alside ,Lowes ,Home Depot .Upper end neighbor hood match the area windows .
They are not too tough seen it done a lot I still will not jack with it .I can get it done average price I would not trust a $12 hour there is a reason he is only charging that amount .
I see lots of poor window install on flips get in and get out after a few years the poor install will show in all different ways .
Yes. This is something I repeatedly harp on here. If you go into DIY investing on buy-and-holds, on certain cosmetic jobs you can cut corners and hope for the best, the callback will not break you. I bought this duplex and intend to keep it in my portfolio for 20 years. My wife is going to be down there in that basement along with pottery equipment and students.
There are certain things I can't screw around with. Windows are one of them. I cannot afford to put fiberglass wood-encased windows in this place. So I'll put in vinyl. But I'll won't use siliconized acrylic caulk to get them in, I won't leave the sash weights in the cavities or half-heartedly jam some.fiberglass into them, I'm not going to trust cheap sealant and adhered untreated wood trim to keep the basement windows in place when someone starts trying to kick them in. Every window gets 3M's Pure Safety rock wool in the cavities, lifetime-guaranteed 100% silicone keeping out the elements, and the basement windows have 2 1/4 in. Tapcon concrete anchors keeping them in place. My replacement frames down there will all be custom-cut from prime treated 2×4s, also Tapconned in place. I'm perfectly willing to spend an extra five bucks per window on spray foam, and I'm not going to save a buck a can on spray foam that expands to distend the frames of these windows. The replacement job will in every way be superior to what the "professional installers" did along the west wall back in the day.
I understand and appreciate people's worries that a sloppy DIY job isn't worth doing next to a quality profrssional job. But when it comes to window installation, you have to realize that the guys that come out for Lowes or Window World or Home Depot are typically not the top-of-the-line professional handyman their salesmen might lead you to believe they are. The best professional handymen in this country do not work for big window replacement operations They work union jobs as construction leads. They own their own handyman service companies. They own distribution franchises for the best factory-made window companies (I should probably be buying my replacement windows through my friend Matt M's franchise, as mentioned earlier in the thread). And not to toot my own horn, but I haven't met a single decent handyman in Pittsburgh who doesn't own at least one rental property.
I've been renovating properties with my once baby-soft teacher hands now for 13 years. I come from a family legacy of doing this that goes back to the 1960s. I'm reasonably confident in my skillset, and in my very extensive tool investments. I derive significant personal satisfaction and, of course, a large portion of my family's net wealth from this work. I'm more than slight confident I'm going to do a better job changing these windows out than most "professional installers," because I could get a job doing this for them in thirty minutes or less.
- 6yJosh C.Pro MemberProperty Manager · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Jim K.
You can purchase mulled Windows to replace several windows next to each other. That takes out the carpentry work and get wood of the outside of your property. Which looks better and is more air/water tight. Also, the building supply house have way better deals that the big box stores if custom sizes like that have to be in brick buildings.
Also, most contractors suck at water sealing. At least in Indianapolis where the permit office does t inspect window replacement. And poorly installed windows and doors can be a huge problem down the road. I like liquid flash for brick work. Tap cons and silicone/spray is not enough. My experience anyway. Matt Riesinger YouTube videos are pretty good for that type of stuff. But can be overkill.
- 6yJim K.Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votesOP
Originally posted by @Josh C.:
@Jim K.
You can purchase mulled Windows to replace several windows next to each other. That takes out the carpentry work and get wood of the outside of your property. Which looks better and is more air/water tight. Also, the building supply house have way better deals that the big box stores if custom sizes like that have to be in brick buildings.
Also, most contractors suck at water sealing. At least in Indianapolis where the permit office does t inspect window replacement. And poorly installed windows and doors can be a huge problem down the road. I like liquid flash for brick work. Tap cons and silicone/spray is not enough. My experience anyway. Matt Riesinger YouTube videos are pretty good for that type of stuff. But can be overkill.
That's the kind of contribution I started this thread for, real food for thought. Thanks! But Josh, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I bought this duplex in a C- neighborhood for $45K. Yes, in this PA municipality just outside Pittsburgh, there's no permit inspection (there is in City of Pittsburgh proper). Max ARV here is realistically not going to go above $150K in the next 5-10 years, no matter what I do to it.
How can realistically justify the kind of materials expense you're talking about in this property class?
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes6y
Entire house I use a company, as the per-window cost ends up coming down to the point where it makes no sense for me to do it. Single window, depends on the window and the nature of the replacement. I almost said anything on the second story is done by someone else until I remembered I did one on the second floor of one of my houses about 3 years ago. I will usually do a window setup redo myself, because I like doing carpentry work and the cost of doing something different than what was in there is usually significant. That means changing two windows into one big one, or vice versa, putting in a smaller or bigger window, or changing the location of the window. If it's just swapping the same thing in and out I have it done. If it's an unusual window or one that specifically matches everything else that looks good I might take it home and rebuild it if the unit is empty, or if I have a storm that I can screw into place temporarily. I did that on one of my 1925 houses that has all matching original wavy-glass. If you're repainting the window you can use biscuit joints or some other butt-type joint to rebuild the sashes rather than have to rabbit the new pieces; no one but you will ever know the difference.
If the window is just a single pane glass and is otherwise in good shape I will sometimes opt for storm windows. Depends on the house. Renters don't care one way or the other as they virtually never open the windows.
Skyline Properties - Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Jim K.:
Originally posted by @Billy Smith:
I always replace windows if they are trashed ,in a C area go with Alside ,Lowes ,Home Depot .Upper end neighbor hood match the area windows .
They are not too tough seen it done a lot I still will not jack with it .I can get it done average price I would not trust a $12 hour there is a reason he is only charging that amount .
I see lots of poor window install on flips get in and get out after a few years the poor install will show in all different ways .
Yes. This is something I repeatedly harp on here. If you go into DIY investing on buy-and-holds, on certain cosmetic jobs you can cut corners and hope for the best, the callback will not break you. I bought this duplex and intend to keep it in my portfolio for 20 years. My wife is going to be down there in that basement along with pottery equipment and students.
There are certain things I can't screw around with. Windows are one of them. I cannot afford to put fiberglass wood-encased windows in this place. So I'll put in vinyl. But I'll won't use siliconized acrylic caulk to get them in, I won't leave the sash weights in the cavities or half-heartedly jam some.fiberglass into them, I'm not going to trust cheap sealant and adhered untreated wood trim to keep the basement windows in place when someone starts trying to kick them in. Every window gets 3M's Pure Safety rock wool in the cavities, lifetime-guaranteed 100% silicone keeping out the elements, and the basement windows have 2 1/4 in. Tapcon concrete anchors keeping them in place. My replacement frames down there will all be custom-cut from prime treated 2×4s, also Tapconned in place. I'm perfectly willing to spend an extra five bucks per window on spray foam, and I'm not going to save a buck a can on spray foam that expands to distend the frames of these windows. The replacement job will in every way be superior to what the "professional installers" did along the west wall back in the day.
I understand and appreciate people's worries that a sloppy DIY job isn't worth doing next to a quality profrssional job. But when it comes to window installation, you have to realize that the guys that come out for Lowes or Window World or Home Depot are typically not the top-of-the-line professional handyman their salesmen might lead you to believe they are. The best professional handymen in this country do not work for big window replacement operations They work union jobs as construction leads. They own their own handyman service companies. They own distribution franchises for the best factory-made window companies (I should probably be buying my replacement windows through my friend Matt M's franchise, as mentioned earlier in the thread). And not to toot my own horn, but I haven't met a single decent handyman in Pittsburgh who doesn't own at least one rental property.
I've been renovating properties with my once baby-soft teacher hands now for 13 years. I come from a family legacy of doing this that goes back to the 1960s. I'm reasonably confident in my skillset, and in my very extensive tool investments. I derive significant personal satisfaction and, of course, a large portion of my family's net wealth from this work. I'm more than slight confident I'm going to do a better job changing these windows out than most "professional installers," because I could get a job doing this for them in thirty minutes or less.
Just to expand on this: window installation is not rocket science. You can learn pretty quick basics on installing a window watching Tom Silva on "This Old House" in less than 10 minutes. Making the window waterproof is actually the easy part. The hard part is making it look good - getting reveals right, depths set properly, window casings cut & installed properly, molding miters even, etc. Most people don't realize that windows just "hang there" in the opening - they're not (or better not be!) a structural part of the wall. As long as it's nailed in so it doesn't fall out and is flashed properly, the rest of it is more or less to look good.
Skyline Properties - Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Jim K.:
Originally posted by @Jill F.:
Hi @Jim K., Just went to Menard's and bought 12 builder grade Jeld-Wen's on sale for a 120 year old rental during the last 11% off storewide thing they do. I'll tell hubby & handy you're doing 30% more windows than they have to do-- so they'll know that It could be worse. hahahah. Is that mean?
I used to have a girlfriend in Greece who made up a boyfriend for her work friend and constantly told me manipulative stories about what a great, selfless guy he was. She made him a taxi driver, because after long association I just hate all Athens taxi drivers. Every time she came home, it was, "Sotiris did THIS for Gianna, and then he did THAT, and then he gave Gianna THAT, and wow, Sotiris paid for a weekend trip THERE..."
I ended up renovating two apartments for her with no pay, so she was definitely on to something. But after I figured it all out, I broke up with her by sending her a cell phone message from a seat on an Airbus on the runway of the Athens airport, as the engines warmed up for takeoff for my flight back to the USA. My mom, sitting next to me, referred to that message as "The Jimmy Special" for the rest of her life.
As long as Mr. F is sure that I'm real, you should be in the clear.
OMG that's awful! -- I was just teasing. He's amazing and works HARD. LOL I worry that he's working TOO hard; I kinda like him after 29 years ;) I don't want to kill him.
- Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Parker Eberhard:
@Jill F. I know a guy whose family started Jeld-win...even he says he would never put them in his house
Did he have a recommendation for a "builder grade" (aka cheap) replacement w/o nail fin?
- Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 0 votes6y
@Jim K.
Recently had the same issue on a multi fam my team purchased. Definitely hire specialists, they should be able to bang those out in one day, along with disposing of the old windows which is another issue you will come across when doing it yourself.
- Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
@Jim K.
I will generally (reluctantly) hire out window replacement jobs for a few reasons.
1. I am handy and oversee or do most of the work on new acquisition/renovations, but windows are not my specialty.
2. Once a place is stabilized I generally sub out maintenance work. I have a good network of trusted subs.
3. I teach high school full time, so summers are my only time to take on larger jobs myself. With the number of units I manage I keep pretty busy handling summer turnovers and leasing. I’d rather do tile work (experience) than windows.
4. I won’t go to a top dollar window company, but I will hire a local contractor who specializes in window/roof/siding jobs. They will purchase custom made windows from a local manufacturer and can do any size install job in a day or 2.
- 6yJeremy RhodesPro MemberMember since 2019 · 35 posts · 12 votes
@Jim K.
Just replaced 9 windows in my first BRRRR. Good luck to you!
- Member since 2019 · 295 posts · 159 votes6y
@Jim K. I use window world they warranty for a lifetime and honestly they are good quality and I get the cheapest windows possible from them no low E and no Argon it’s a nice appearance. Any issues I call them and they handle it.
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