Burning question to all you house flippers

Burning question to all you house flippers

Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 390 posts · 599 votes

I'm struggling a bit on what was seemingly a home run deal. Was hoping for some advice from you seasoned pros. I stumbled upon and quickly locked up a home that is 3 hours from the territory I typically work. Just got a chance to see the home for the first time and although my purchase price to comps is great I need to make a number of decisions on my exit. Here are the details:

Purchase price $41k

Neighborhood sold, pending and active comps $125-$179k

So far so good. The problem is that the house was owned by a do it yourself type with two terrible condition add ons, funky tile throughout and and a number of cosmetic issues.

My question is whether my best exit would be to flip it as is where I estimate I could list and get around $70k as is.

Or "wholetail" to make the home functioning and liveable by keeping the tile and bathrooms while finishing the add ons, fixing the roof, painting the cabinets, exterior and interior paint, landscaping and HVAC. This would make the home liveable, maybe FHA financeable and would be consistent with many active comps that look liveable but not upgraded with list prices in the low $100s. I estimate a sale in the low $100s if lucky and the rehab would be int he $12-15k range. The concern here is that I don't do enough to sell it fast and a potential deal would fall apart under the lending microscope.

Final strategy is a gut keeping just the tile throughout the home although I don't really like the tile. This would include refacing the cabinets, granite countertops, new windows, finishing the add ons, baseboards, gutted bathrooms, etc. Cost would be in the $30-$37k range but the comp would be mid to high 100s most likly $150-170k. I've met with and received bids from local contractors for this and don't have a comfortable feeling with any of them to pull it off appropriately. Rehabs are hard enough when I'm local let alone 3 hours away and only able to show up once every other week. This is the part that scares me most. That and keeping the tile while spending so much on everything else.

The market in this city is hot and there is a shortage of dressed up housing. This is a cash deal and I have no holding costs or cash constraints, just constrained on time and headaches.

Finally I could always hold and rent if all else fails as my cost basis would still be low and the home fixed up would rent for around $1200. I'm not a remote landlord and don't see many (any) successful remote landlords or landlords using PM, at least successful by the standards I set.

So ... interested in your thoughts on best strategy, thoughts on the tile, etc. Pics are attached. Please help.

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  • Investor · El Paso/Socorro, TX · Member since 2012 · 365 posts · 75 votes
    13y

    That is an amazing looking home. The kitchen is a bit strange to me. looking forward to 'the rest of the story'!

  • Louisville, KY · Member since 2013 · 23 posts · 3 votes
    13y

    The 3 hour drive is a killer. I'd either flip it to another investor for $70 and do a full out rehab for maximum sales price. The in between deal sounds like a bad idea. You're not going to get a whole lot more profit for the additional capital and time investment.

    Why do you sound so attached to keeping the tile? If you're going to do the full fix up, why leave the tile. If you don't like it I wonder if potential buyers will like it. If you're doing the full rehab then I'd considering new flooring too.

    One suggestion: partner with someone who is local to the property, maybe another investor or a contractor. If you have someone local who has some skin in the game it might make the flip worthwhile.

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 390 posts · 599 votes
    13y

    Thanks for the responses.

    Charles Morgan the kitchen is strange indeed. Even stranger is the bathroom which to me is a really tough one. Its got a tiled in bath area with no raised shower and the home has no bathtub. Needless to say wifey buyer will not be pleased. Strangely enough though it has a bidet!

    Rick Strobel Thanks for the suggestion. The partnering idea is a good one. Yes the 3 hour distance is really the killer. I can't convince my local crew to sack up and do it for me at any cost. I agree I usually would not consider the middle option of wholetail BUT the comps all look dated but liveable. Under most circumstances I would change the flooring but I think it may be serviceable once painted.

    The major problem is that the whole flip would be contingent on the craftsmanship of a contractor that I've never worked with and I will not be able to oversee the work. This is a recipe for disaster and I've learned that lesson already. I'm really leaning towards just wholesaling it to another investor and walking but it hurts leaving so much potential profit on the table. Especially when its been so hard in my Phoenix market to find anything with margins. Flippers are living on $5-10k margins right now and all the headache on this one could pay off big.

    J. Scott or Brandon Turner ... care to chime in? Any other comments is very much appreciated.

  • Investor · Canton-Akron, OH · Member since 2012 · 917 posts · 477 votes
    13y

    Due to the distance I personally would clean it up and sell it as is. If not I agree with rick strobel, I would do a complete remodel and sell it for max value. The difficult part of that is getting contractors in an unfamiliar area...I have paid to have my crews stay at a hotel local to the job, may be an option.

    Before replacing the tile, I would consult with an interior decorator or two for perspective. My first thoughts are, if you get approporiate wall paint colors that may not be needed. Right now you have serious clashing of colors going on, tnat I think can be remedied with paint colors and approporiate stsging items.

    My thoughts,

    Kool house by the way, love to rehab that one!

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 390 posts · 599 votes
    13y

    Here is another bathroom pic that features the bidet. Someone loved this home at one point in its life! Check out that tub ... its not a bathtub, its all white ceramic tile, no raised shower head.

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 390 posts · 599 votes
    13y

    Dell Schlabach yeah I like the home also. Agree on the tile, mismatching to the extreme, no idea what people are thinking sometimes. I will take your advice and offer hotel stays for my crew and perhaps a trip to Mexico since the home is not too far from the border. I just see so much potential in this one but can also see so vividly the headaces, miscommunications and issues. Its hard enough managing my own crews that have done 30+ remodels for me let alone someone I've never worked with. The one contractor didn't even take notes as I was telling him what I wanted done. Said he has been doing this 30 years and we are on the same page anyways ... red flags already.

  • Investor · Canton-Akron, OH · Member since 2012 · 917 posts · 477 votes
    13y

    I am always amazed by contractors who dont write anything down, not sure how they think you are on the same page when, they dont even have a page :-) ... big red flag.

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 390 posts · 599 votes
    13y

    And pics of the backyard. Its large but comes with a dated broken jacuzzi, a homemade water feature with 6 foot pit and random wire fencing throughout.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Chandler, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 928 votes
    13y

    Serge S.

    Where is it at? I can let you know if I have a rehab crew that will go there.

    Thanks

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 390 posts · 599 votes
    13y

    Thanks Justin. I will PM you.

  • Investor · Saint Peters, MO · Member since 2013 · 106 posts · 12 votes
    13y

    Serge, Looks like a great house for the price. Looking at the pictures I have to agree with what Dell said I think that tile just needs the right color scheme. It doesn't go with that out dated paint. Get a designer in their and they could do wonders.

  • Louisville, KY · Member since 2013 · 23 posts · 3 votes
    13y

    If you don't mind me asking: how did you get that for $41k?

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 390 posts · 599 votes
    13y

    It was a deal that slipped through the cracks. It was originally listed grossly overpriced and sat on the market for over a year. They slowly lowered the price and then took it off market. I was able to submit a quick close cash offer to the asset manager and they bit.

  • Investor · Rancho Cucamonga, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 684 votes
    13y

    I would do a basic rehab and rent it out with a professional property manager. The monthly results aren't the prize, so be flexible. After you own it a while, you can list it at a high price and find the "right buyer" while it is tenant occupied.

  • Broker, Investor, Property Restorer · Fox Point, WI · Member since 2012 · 288 posts · 120 votes
    13y

    I have a few thoughts on this one-#1 kitchens and baths often sell homes-from what I see in the pics, the baths look OK but the kitchen looks quite outdated to me. I'd look at freshening up the kitchen first.

    #2-The tile is an interesting pattern but I'd agree with others here that with the right color schemes on the walls, it would look a lot better. Those are some pretty wild color combos on those walls! I'd also second the idea of an interior designer to pick some better colors. Now, that leads to my tile question, was the tile installed correctly? It seems like tile, more than any other material can easily be poorly installed, either by a DIY or even by seasoned contractors who don't know the proper substrates, etc for tile installs.

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 390 posts · 599 votes
    13y

    Yes the tile is the one thing that actually was done right. The rental proposition is interesting but I'm hesitant since I have had so many prior problems w homes w bad add ons. From HVAC to plumbing the repairs never end and these tend to be my worst homes.

  • Brandon TurnerPro Member
    Investor · Maui, HI · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Hey Serge S. very interesting house. I'm also nervous about the 3 hour distance. I've flipped houses like a half hour from my house and it's annoying. Heck, I'm doing one right now 6 blocks from my house and it's annoying. Obviously that depends heavily on the contractor you find, of course.

    So, personally, I think I'd wholesale it and make the quick cash and use the money elsewhere. But It's a tough one.

    J Scott - what do you think?

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y

    I agree with pretty much everything above...

    The one situation where I think it would be worthwhile to do a full rehab and sell it retail would be if you plan to do more properties in this area. If so, this is a great opportunity to build a local team.

    But, if this is a "one off" and you don't plan to do much else in this area, then a quick clean and resale to another rehabber or landlord is my suggestion. 3 hours away might as well be a plane flight, and I've experienced first-hand the frustrations of rehabbing long-distance. It's worth it at scale, but not worth it for just an occasional flip here and there.

    Now, all that said, let me add one additional thought... If you're confident that you can essentially double your profit by doing a full rehab, if you're a full time investor and don't have other potential deals on the horizon (like you said, Phoenix is really tough these days), then you can probably make a case for doing the full rehab, even with all the frustrations and travel time. In other words, a highly profitable and frustrating job may be the better choice than just having your cash sitting around with nowhere else to park it.

    But, if it were me, I'd wholesale it and be happy with the quick (and very decent) profit...

  • Real Estate Professional · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2012 · 319 posts · 167 votes
    13y

    I'd put some large area rugs in those rooms, the crazy tile patterns won't be so offensive as an interesting border.

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 390 posts · 599 votes
    13y

    Thanks for all the replies. J. Scott brings up a great point. My initial thought in taking on this project was to try and build a team in that region for future expansion. Right now the market is in fact tight and there are no other prospects (but we know that can change in a moments notice). But now that I actually made that drive, wasted a full day for something that should have taken less than an hour, I don't think I want to do it again. I've offered my crew a nice bonus to take on the project and if they take the offer I will do a full turn. If I can't use my crew I'll do a quick clean and flip it to the next guy. Everyone's advice has been very helpful.

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 390 posts · 599 votes
    12y

    Update on this one. I did purchase the home and am 3 months into the remodel. I did find a local contractor and its worked out well so far. I ended up changing out the floors, kitchen, bathroom and just about everything:) Nearly $30k all in about two weeks to completion. Had a local broker view the property and have comps at around $179k. I will be all in around $70k so this could be a home run. I'll post a full set of after pictures.

  • FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 357 votes
    12y

    @Serge S.,

    Thank you for the update.

    Looking forward to those pictures.

    Raymond

  • Real Estate Professional · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2012 · 319 posts · 167 votes
    12y

    I'm looking forward to those pics too, that place looked really interesting.

  • Folsom, CA · Member since 2013 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Serge, that is great!

    I'm interested in seeing the 'after' pics.

    As I was reading responses, I had thoughts of what I would want to do to it.

    I hope you make a lot of money on this one.

  • Architect · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 244 posts · 101 votes
    12y

    the outside of that house is really cool. very interested in seeing the final product.

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