Who's in Charge? A Reminder for Note Investors (and Private Lenders)

Who's in Charge? A Reminder for Note Investors (and Private Lenders)

Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes

When you are the lender, YOU are in charge. It sounds obvious, but you would be surprised how often borrowers forget it, and how often lenders let them.

We are living this right now with a non-performing loan we acquired. The borrower has decided they are running the show. They want cash for keys based on full property value, are ignoring default interest entirely, and are claiming that because we bought the loan at a discount, that discounted price is all they owe us.

Let's clear that up fast. It doesn't matter what we paid for the loan. The borrower signed a note for a specific amount with specific terms. That obligation doesn't shrink because the loan changed hands. We are their current lender, and the contract is the contract.

Cash for keys at full property value isn't a negotiation. That's a ransom demand. And going silent on default interest doesn't make it disappear.

This situation comes down to one thing: discomfort with conflict causes lenders to lose their leverage. Be professional, be firm, document everything, and remember that foreclosure isn't a threat. It's a legal right.

The lenders who get walked on are the ones who forgot who was sitting in the driver's seat.

How do others deal or handle this?

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
5mo
Quote from @Yael Maroko:

Curious - How does the borrower know what you paid for the loan?


public record..  the assignment is recorded.. although not sure in every state if they state the value it sold for on the assignment.. Chris can answer that one. 
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  • Investor · Atlanta GA · Member since 2019 · 35 posts · 20 votes
    5mo

    Curious - How does the borrower know what you paid for the loan?

    • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
      Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
      5mo
      Quote from @Yael Maroko:

      Curious - How does the borrower know what you paid for the loan?


      public record..  the assignment is recorded.. although not sure in every state if they state the value it sold for on the assignment.. Chris can answer that one. 
    • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
      Moderator
      OP
      Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
      5mo

      @Jay Hinrichs - they don't know what we paid so they just guess and assume that we didn't pay full price

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  • Lender · Charleston, SC · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5mo

    @Chris Seveney I've noticed a somewhat similar sentiment with borrowers in general over the past year or so. Do you think this is tied to the current market environment? From what I personally have experienced, a lot of this behavior is linked with unrealistic expectations, which seems to circle back to experience level and when they entered the real estate market. I've noticed that this seems to be most prevalent with investors who got started after Covid.

    It wouldnt shock me if the lender-borrower dynamic is also being influenced by the lender saturation relative to transaction activity right now. It seems like lenders are bending over backwards and running razor thin margins to stay afloat, so I guess that this creates some type of impression that borrowers can set the terms. 

  • Erik EstradaBusiness Member
    Lender · Member since 2022 · 6k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5mo
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    When you are the lender, YOU are in charge. It sounds obvious, but you would be surprised how often borrowers forget it, and how often lenders let them.

    We are living this right now with a non-performing loan we acquired. The borrower has decided they are running the show. They want cash for keys based on full property value, are ignoring default interest entirely, and are claiming that because we bought the loan at a discount, that discounted price is all they owe us.

    Let's clear that up fast. It doesn't matter what we paid for the loan. The borrower signed a note for a specific amount with specific terms. That obligation doesn't shrink because the loan changed hands. We are their current lender, and the contract is the contract.

    Cash for keys at full property value isn't a negotiation. That's a ransom demand. And going silent on default interest doesn't make it disappear.

    This situation comes down to one thing: discomfort with conflict causes lenders to lose their leverage. Be professional, be firm, document everything, and remember that foreclosure isn't a threat. It's a legal right.

    The lenders who get walked on are the ones who forgot who was sitting in the driver's seat.

    How do others deal or handle this?


     EXACTLY! 

    I always set the expectation upfront. Everything from closing times, approval, fees, rates etc.. is always laid out clearly in writing. 

    I find that the more ambiguity there is, the more likely you risk a borrower giving you a tough time and trying to take control of the situation. 

    If you have clear expectations, clear guidelines, clear deadlines, there is not ,much to question. 

    A lot of this stems from the false impression that there are hundreds of lenders the borrower can choose from and have their way. It does not work this way unfortunately. If the borrower is a bad apple, the industry is small and word spreads very quickly. 

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  • Doug SmithPro Member
    Lender · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5mo

    A few things. I'm not sure how they knew you bought it at a discount. Who told them? That's not public record and, frankly, it's none of their business. When we started in 2008, we made the conscious decision to never pay cash for keys. We can look people in the eye and tell them we've never done it and never will. That doesn't mean we can't waive the deficiency balance for leaving the property in "broom-swept condition". There's a lot of power in not having a foreclosure show up on a credit report. If they cooperate with us, then we cooperate with them. 

    • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
      Moderator
      OP
      Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
      5mo

      @Doug Smith - according to one borrower, they were speaking to a prior lender. But most of them just Google it and find that they're traded at a discount. One of them I said that is great. Where do you think I have to pay my salaries, my overhead, etc.

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  • Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5mo

    I think I'd rather have that than the borrowers who know how to game the system, or at least who hire an attorney that does.  And in a state that offers borrowers the ultimate in protection against creditors.  

    I have a foreclosure that's been going on in PA since 2021.  I kid you not.  It first started with the owner who used everything conceivable under the sun, namely the "Save Your Home" program and using Legal aid. We eventually got a judgement but unfortunately she passed away.  The heirs to the property hired another attorney and going through the same process with save your home program, and then the reconcilation conferences only happen twice a year.  Part of the requirements for the recon conf is demonstrating that you as the lender have offered Loss Mit.  Well for the last 3 times the borrower has claimed they didn't receive the package so the magistrate automatically reschedules another.  This despite our lawyer (who's just bending over) allegedly sending it to them.  

    Anyhow, vent over, but I can definitely sympathize with you.

    • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
      Moderator
      OP
      Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
      5mo
      Quote from @Chad U.:

      I think I'd rather have that than the borrowers who know how to game the system, or at least who hire an attorney that does.  And in a state that offers borrowers the ultimate in protection against creditors.  

      I have a foreclosure that's been going on in PA since 2021.  I kid you not.  It first started with the owner who used everything conceivable under the sun, namely the "Save Your Home" program and using Legal aid. We eventually got a judgement but unfortunately she passed away.  The heirs to the property hired another attorney and going through the same process with save your home program, and then the reconcilation conferences only happen twice a year.  Part of the requirements for the recon conf is demonstrating that you as the lender have offered Loss Mit.  Well for the last 3 times the borrower has claimed they didn't receive the package so the magistrate automatically reschedules another.  This despite our lawyer (who's just bending over) allegedly sending it to them.  

      Anyhow, vent over, but I can definitely sympathize with you.


       I have one where the loan was in the parents name, went to a child, child (who is an adult) 5 BK's later, and 6 years of knowing how to game the system hopefully is on their last leg. Yep those who know how to game the system are far worse.

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    • Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      5mo
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Chad U.:

      I think I'd rather have that than the borrowers who know how to game the system, or at least who hire an attorney that does.  And in a state that offers borrowers the ultimate in protection against creditors.  

      I have a foreclosure that's been going on in PA since 2021.  I kid you not.  It first started with the owner who used everything conceivable under the sun, namely the "Save Your Home" program and using Legal aid. We eventually got a judgement but unfortunately she passed away.  The heirs to the property hired another attorney and going through the same process with save your home program, and then the reconcilation conferences only happen twice a year.  Part of the requirements for the recon conf is demonstrating that you as the lender have offered Loss Mit.  Well for the last 3 times the borrower has claimed they didn't receive the package so the magistrate automatically reschedules another.  This despite our lawyer (who's just bending over) allegedly sending it to them.  

      Anyhow, vent over, but I can definitely sympathize with you.


       I have one where the loan was in the parents name, went to a child, child (who is an adult) 5 BK's later, and 6 years of knowing how to game the system hopefully is on their last leg. Yep those who know how to game the system are far worse.

      Oh yeah I forgot to mention that, both the original borrower and the heir declared BK as well.  
  • Investor · Pacific Northwest · Member since 2026 · 538 posts · 308 votes
    5mo

    You’re right on enforcement, but the framing is off.

    “You’re in charge” is only true if you’re actually willing to execute.

    Otherwise the borrower isn’t confused—they’re testing your boundaries.

    From their side, this is rational:

    • They know you bought at a discount
    • They assume you want speed over process
    • They’re anchoring high to see if you’ll trade certainty for a shortcut

    That’s not disrespect. That’s negotiation under distress.

    Where lenders lose leverage isn’t conflict avoidance—it’s unclear escalation paths.

    If the borrower doesn’t know exactly what happens next, on what timeline, and at what cost, they fill that gap with their own narrative.

    The shift is simple:

    • Stop arguing the terms
    • Start demonstrating the process

    “Here’s where you are in default.

    Here’s what accrues from here.

    Here’s the timeline to cure.

    Here’s the foreclosure path if not resolved.”

    No emotion, no debate—just progression.

    Cash-for-keys only works when it’s priced against your alternative (time, legal cost, asset condition), not theirs (property value or your basis).

    The lenders who don’t get pushed around aren’t louder—they’re predictable.

    Once the borrower realizes the outcome is governed by process, not conversation, the tone usually changes fast.

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    5mo
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    When you are the lender, YOU are in charge. It sounds obvious, but you would be surprised how often borrowers forget it, and how often lenders let them.

    We are living this right now with a non-performing loan we acquired. The borrower has decided they are running the show. They want cash for keys based on full property value, are ignoring default interest entirely, and are claiming that because we bought the loan at a discount, that discounted price is all they owe us.

    Let's clear that up fast. It doesn't matter what we paid for the loan. The borrower signed a note for a specific amount with specific terms. That obligation doesn't shrink because the loan changed hands. We are their current lender, and the contract is the contract.

    Cash for keys at full property value isn't a negotiation. That's a ransom demand. And going silent on default interest doesn't make it disappear.

    This situation comes down to one thing: discomfort with conflict causes lenders to lose their leverage. Be professional, be firm, document everything, and remember that foreclosure isn't a threat. It's a legal right.

    The lenders who get walked on are the ones who forgot who was sitting in the driver's seat.

    How do others deal or handle this?

    Since I only deal with investment properties, I can’t comment on homeowner loans. 

    My experience is that the overall trend in my 50 years in real estate has been to less responsibility - what was once a moral obligation became just a legal one and now isn’t even regarded as a that.  Besides a general decline in accepting responsibility, there’s been a tremendous increase in governmental INTERFERENCE with the free market, no need to reiterate all that here.  All this was psychologically reinforced to borrowers, tenants, etc. by the moratorium, hand outs, and com-locations of the governmental response to COVID 2020 -2021.  With socialists being elected in municipal elections, a certain percentage of borrowers take a communist view of money lenders and debt.  Many actually believe that the concepts of compound interest and amortization is a trick by capitalists to rob the debtor.  

    while we’ve had a lot of success with borrowers in default executing deeds to us for 3 - 6 months “grace” period ( somehow they all believe that their inherently long term problems can all be resolved in 3 - 6 months); and indeed some are able to actually pay us off, we’ve also run into situations where their attorney recommended bankruptcy instead.  Of course after paying attorney fees, court costs, and having the BK trustee take his “share” of the largess, the debtor is 98% of the time worse off than before.  We are involved in one now where 5 properties secure a single note.  We had originally offered to accept 80% of the sales proceeds as each property sold (the borrower agreed with us that the properties needed to be sold); the borrower wanted us to accept 50%.  He filed BK; now after he’s responsible for his attorney fees, our attorney fees, trustee costs, etc., his only option is to accept our receiving 100% of the proceeds until the new larger debt is paid off.  In all likelihood he has gone from a $1.5 - 2 million cash out position to a $750,000 - $1 million position with a longer wait for any money. 
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