DO NOT INVEST with SCOTT CARSON (We Close Notes) or Inverse Asset

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DO NOT INVEST with SCOTT CARSON (We Close Notes) or Inverse Asset

Gerry Cohen
Investor · Sanford, NC · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 96 votes

I have been reluctant to broadcast this information to the note investment community, hoping not to "hang out my dirty laundry" with colleagues or the note investment community. However, it is time to speak out and address this reckless and unethical behavior of SCOTT CARSON! It must be STOPPED!

After attending SCOTT CARSON's (We Close Notes) seminars, Master Mind programs, and listening to his podcasts, I decided to invest as a passive investor (joint venture partner) with SCOTT CARSON (Inverse Asset Fund) to acquire a number of defaulted real estate notes. SCOTT CARSON and (Inverse Asset Fund) acting as the lead investment manager to secure the notes and properly disposition. Not so dissimilar from most note joint ventures agreements.

Once funds transferred the joint venture immediately transformed into a bad movie! SCOTT CARSON never followed up, never shared information on the status of the investment (notes) nor paid out interest income per the agreement. After more than 24 months, following the terms of the agreement I gave SCOTT CARSON (Inverse Asset Fund) the appropriate notice to dissolve the joint venture, return principal and interest owed to me. I am still waiting for proper disposition and return of principal.

Naively, I thought SCOTT CARSON (Inverse Asset Fund) would do the "right thing" and meet his obligation if treated like a professional. No such luck!

After several attempts to address this obligation directly through legal counsel, I instructed my attorney to secure a judgment against SCOTT CARSON and Inverse Asset Fund, If you take the time to research Travis County, Texas county records you should see my approved judgement as well as other judgments awarded to other passive investors. 

This is not how the "note investment business" works! In closing DO NOT INVEST with SCOTT CARSON (We Close Notes) and Inverse Asset Fund. 

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Adam Adams
Investor · Small Town, TX · Member since 2016 · 110 posts · 252 votes
7y

@Jay Hinrichs A lot of us learned from Scott. I can say that I probably wouldn't have started buying notes without his class. A few months into it, I started hearing the stories like Gerry's. We've revamped our business and did away with a lot of the things he taught us.

@Patrick Desjardins - There are a lot of similar stories. Most of them from his students. If you run a background check, you'll see some nasty stuff. And some of the guys he promotes are just as bad. I invested with one of his buddies. After I gave him my money, I learned that he was a disbarred attorney. He was suspended for mishandling client funds and disbarred for practicing while suspended. I was lucky and got my money back, but I know several folks that are in a bind because of him and will probably lose their investment.

Since I got involved with those two fellows, I always tell everyone who writes me or calls me to do a background check before giving anyone any money. There are a lot of services online that will do it for $10-$40. It's a cash business which means no one is screening these folks like they should. If it were a commercial deal with leverage involved, not one bank would give them a loan. Spend $10 on due diligence before giving someone $10,000.

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  • Al Curiel
    Real Estate Investor · Elgin, IL · Member since 2015 · 7 posts · 47 votes
    7y

    Joel, I don't want to specify. It's a big number. It's all spelled out in the cause of action.. I don't want to appear as the sole victim because I am not. There are many others. I made a tactical mistake by trusting someone that does not deserve to be trusted in the least.  I just want  people to be aware. 

    4Reply
  • Joseph King
    Aliso Viejo, CA · Member since 2019 · 53 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    Unfortunately, we have found there are many people out there in alternative assets shooting by the hip and practicing unethical business. They think they can hide behind custom contracts and lawyers. It casts a dark shadow on an already struggling industry and opens the doors for more reform and regulation. This is one of the main reasons why I partnered with the "LOI Events" group. LOI stands for "Leaders if Integrity" and the goal is to bring awareness to the fraud, scams, and gurus out there trying to rip you off. It seems everywhere you turn there are more and more stories of these nefarious activities. Thank you for sharing this Gerry, I hope more people chime in and shame this bad behavior. I would like to see nothing more than these people's reputations destroyed and maybe even Jail-time. If anyone is interested, look us up and drop us a line. We will spread the word!

    2Reply
  • Gil Ganz
    Real Estate Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 136 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    Wow. Really disturbing and surprising. Sorry to hear that so many people were hurt, thank you for sharing this so the community can watch out.

    3Reply
  • Beth Hale
    Specialist · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    Let us not forget, that the 15 lawsuits I highlighted in my previous post represent ONLY those people who had the resources, and presence of mind (and in some cases, the courage) to file a lawsuit against him.  For every one who did, there might be 3 (or five?) who didn't!  Maybe more.  So what is the final casualty count?  45?  75?  I don't know.  I do know lot of people contacted me, because of my original post on Scott Carson's basecamp site.  I was surprised at how many were my colleagues in the note business.

    I think it's a natural thing to trust somebody who presents himself as a "guru" more than you would somebody else.  You think he's in the public eye, and can't afford to screw people.  

    Up until now, we have been a segregated group of people, but thank's to Gerry's post, and Al's willingness to put up a website (coming soon), I hope to see that change going forward.  Thank you Gerry and Al

    I enjoy the Note business, and what SCOTT CARSON is doing, through WE CLOSE NOTES and INVERSE ASSETS is hurting all of us!

    12Reply
  • Christopher Winkler
    Specialist · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 900 posts · 392 votes
    7y

    He treats his students like gum, once the sugar high is gone, he spits them out...

    8Reply
  • Alpesh Parmar
    Investor · Dublin, CA · Member since 2016 · 344 posts · 228 votes
    7y

    @Gerry Cohen thanks Gerry and others for sharing your experiences. When I was starting out, I was going to attend his mastermind but then I attended Eddie Speed's and I wasn't impressed either. All of these guys want to make money from courses, workshops, coaching, JV investors and investors trying to buy assets from them. It's like they have nothing to lose - it's only win-win for them.

    4Reply
  • Noam Adler
    Investor · cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 67 posts · 45 votes
    7y

       Hello BP Community,

    Over the last two days I found that two "guru's" in the RE world one was a convicted child molester and the other a scammer,  not to mention Scott. Cant forgot Morris either. Is this something in all industries or more in the RE world. 

    thanks

    wishing everyone to stay financial safe

    3Reply
  • Patrick Desjardins
    Real Estate Investor · Amherst, VA · Member since 2015 · 386 posts · 400 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Noam Adler:

       Hello BP Community,

    Over the last two days I found that two "guru's" in the RE world one was a convicted child molester and the other a scammer,  not to mention Scott. Cant forgot Morris either. Is this something in all industries or more in the RE world. 

    thanks

    It's pretty common. One of Scott's marketing "mentor" is Perry Belcher, a convicted felon. There are plenty of them in the internet marketing community, which he's a proud member of.

    As others have said, you have to vet people carefully. I think everyone uses the "fake it til you make it" attitude when they start out, which is understandable to a point, but there's a difference between that and outright bilking investors' money.

    6Reply
  • Shawn Lee
    Clermont, FL · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 9 votes
    7y

    Just a word of advice... if you ever invest, make sure you protect yourself. Don't just wire the money. When I sponsored JV deals, I went out of my way to NEVER TOUCH THE INVESTORS MONEY. I had them either wire it directly to the seller or wire it to an attorney who was bound by the JV agreement, who then wired the seller directly. Then my partners usually went on title, or if they requested, I would be on title but the attorney would hold the physical note and collateral.

    Protect yourself - no deal is worth compromising your safety. The guys without SEC reg filings, don't just send them the money. Go on title or set up a joint LLC so you have control. Request the physical collateral. You paid for it, so have control over it.

    8Reply
  • Bella Scanland
    Member since 2019 · 1 post · 5 votes
    7y
    I invested w Scott in 12/15 - I did my research, at that time there was nothing "out there", I've posted on RipOffReport.com and all over social media, but to no avail. 
    Sorry we've all been caught in his snare!
    5Reply
  • Nawien Sharma
    Rental Property Investor · Ashburn, VA · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 1 vote
    7y

    Very sorry to hear of this. Thank you for sharing.

    1Reply
  • David Putz
    Investor · Jackson, NJ · Member since 2010 · 167 posts · 55 votes
    7y

    It is unfortunate to hear all this.  I typically stick to my large Facebook group and steer away from all this. Being in this space for 10 years most of the people are great people however being a small circle, most of us have heard "stories".  Let me know how i can help Gerry. 

    3Reply
  • Chris Frank
    Bowie, MD · Member since 2014 · 9 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    Gerry, 

    Thank you for sharing. I’ve been burned by Scott and he has not made any returns on the money he acknowledges was made. He always has an excuse. How have you proceeded? I’m having a tough time with legal and would love to join in or talk with your attorney. I even accused Scott of fraud and he denied it. Have you all ever noticed he’s always on vacation with our money??

    3Reply
  • Jonathon Weber
    Member since 2018 · 110 posts · 109 votes
    7y

    If one has to steal money from other to fund their note business and take vacations, they have no business being in note investing. In this industry it takes money and if you are dried up then go do something else in life. 

    Note I am not referring to legit funds that some some companies have for people to invest in. 

    2Reply
  • Ed Gray
    Ocean Pines, Maryland (MD) · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 8 votes
    7y

    Did anyone receive an email like this one below recently? Not sure if his list got stolen but the timing seems odd with this thread and all that is being said. 

    1Reply
  • Adam Adams
    Investor · Small Town, TX · Member since 2016 · 110 posts · 252 votes
    7y

    I got it too.

    0Reply
  • Martin Saenz
    Investor · Fredericksburg, VA · Member since 2017 · 377 posts · 230 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Alpesh Parmar:

    @Gerry Cohen thanks Gerry and others for sharing your experiences. When I was starting out, I was going to attend his mastermind but then I attended Eddie Speed's and I wasn't impressed either. All of these guys want to make money from courses, workshops, coaching, JV investors and investors trying to buy assets from them. It's like they have nothing to lose - it's only win-win for them.

    I'm pretty much staying out of the conversation as I have never had a dealing with Scott and can't speak from experience.  My heart goes out to those affected by a bad encounter I must say.  I would only mention that in fairness to Note School, Eddie Speed's program may not be for everyone, however he and his team have done a tremendous service to the note industry over the years.  They lobby on Capital Hill, etc on behalf of all us note investors for one.  I want to give credit were credit is due and know that Eddie and his team do care about maintaining standards in the space whether or not their system is a fit.  

    4Reply
  • Alpesh Parmar
    Investor · Dublin, CA · Member since 2016 · 344 posts · 228 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Martin Saenz:
    Originally posted by @Alpesh Parmar:

    @Gerry Cohen thanks Gerry and others for sharing your experiences. When I was starting out, I was going to attend his mastermind but then I attended Eddie Speed's and I wasn't impressed either. All of these guys want to make money from courses, workshops, coaching, JV investors and investors trying to buy assets from them. It's like they have nothing to lose - it's only win-win for them.

    I'm pretty much staying out of the conversation as I have never had a dealing with Scott and can't speak from experience.  My heart goes out to those affected by a bad encounter I must say.  I would only mention that in fairness to Note School, Eddie Speed's program may not be for everyone, however he and his team have done a tremendous service to the note industry over the years.  They lobby on Capital Hill, etc on behalf of all us note investors for one.  I want to give credit were credit is due and know that Eddie and his team do care about maintaining standards in the space whether or not their system is a fit.  

     

    You have been in note industry so you must be right @ his contributions. I haven't done business with Eddie so can't say anything but the one full-day workshop I attended was up-selling of 3-day workshop and note school conference. I was immediately put off by the up-selling.

    2Reply
  • Martin Saenz
    Investor · Fredericksburg, VA · Member since 2017 · 377 posts · 230 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Alpesh Parmar:
    Originally posted by @Martin Saenz:
    Originally posted by @Alpesh Parmar:

    @Gerry Cohen thanks Gerry and others for sharing your experiences. When I was starting out, I was going to attend his mastermind but then I attended Eddie Speed's and I wasn't impressed either. All of these guys want to make money from courses, workshops, coaching, JV investors and investors trying to buy assets from them. It's like they have nothing to lose - it's only win-win for them.

    I'm pretty much staying out of the conversation as I have never had a dealing with Scott and can't speak from experience.  My heart goes out to those affected by a bad encounter I must say.  I would only mention that in fairness to Note School, Eddie Speed's program may not be for everyone, however he and his team have done a tremendous service to the note industry over the years.  They lobby on Capital Hill, etc on behalf of all us note investors for one.  I want to give credit were credit is due and know that Eddie and his team do care about maintaining standards in the space whether or not their system is a fit.  

     

    You have been in note industry so you must be right @ his contributions. I haven't done business with Eddie so can't say anything but the one full-day workshop I attended was up-selling of 3-day workshop and note school conference. I was immediately put off by the up-selling.

     Appreciate you, Alpesh.  I took a 3 day Note School workshop when I first started in 2013 and I understand there is up selling.  Moving further into their program was not a fit for me at the time however it gave me my launching pad in the industry.  They run a big operation and need to feed that system accordingly.  With that said, my impression of Eddie (and what I hear from many others in the industry) is that he truly cares about upholding standards within the space, and I believe that strongly with his team too.  I just don't want him lumped into a ethics thread involving someone different (as they are different people running different operations).  That's just my two cents, sir.

    5Reply
  • Rich Farrell
    Investor · Frisco, TX · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    I am not a big fan of funds . Unless you hold a Mortgage or Deed of Trust that has been properly 

    filed you have no recourse. 

    3Reply
  • Andy Mirza
    Lender · Ladera Ranch, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Rich Farrell:

    I am not a big fan of funds . Unless you hold a Mortgage or Deed of Trust that has been properly 

    filed you have no recourse. 

    That is a dilemma with going with a fund. You do lose control once you sign the subscription agreement and wire your funds, which is why trust is key. Ultimately, you need to answer "yes" to the question of do you believe that the Sponsor will do what they say they will? To make up for that risk, funds will (or should) typically offer more than what a capital partner in a JV will get. Funds are for passive investors. If you want to or have to be "hands on," then you do it yourself. My opinion is that you are limited in what you can do, if you "do it yourself" AND have a full time job. I invest in notes full time and that's what I know best. I don't want to have another full time job and neither do a lot of passive investors out there.

    I'm working on building a longer track record because I know it will help me in the long run to earn people's trust.  Other funds such as PPR have much longer track records with lots of people to vouch for and recommend them. Being transparent and having open lines of communication is another way.

    2Reply
  • Christopher Winkler
    Specialist · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 900 posts · 392 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Ed Gray:

    Did anyone receive an email like this one below recently? Not sure if his list got stolen but the timing seems odd with this thread and all that is being said. 

    I did Ed as well as one of our JV investors, who has problems getting his funds back and finally did. I replied to the email and asked who they are. The website is locked.

    0Reply
  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    7y

    I think it is great that this info is being shared here publicly. It is a shame that there are criminals and scammers out there, especially in the real estate and investment fund world so you really need to do your homework.

    I also like the statements implying the importance of checking backgrounds and history on anyone you intend to invest with. You do for a tenant, you certainly should for someone you are giving money to!!

    I really love investing in notes, I got away from it for a while, not for any reason other than lack of time and I certainly want to jump back in as I need more passive income streams. Knowing who to deal with and more importantly, who not to is a huge value here. Thanks for posting.

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    2Reply
  • Michele Orgel
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2011 · 3 posts · 9 votes
    7y

    Hello to all our fellow "victims" (for lack of a better word) of Scott Carson, who looked me dead in the eye on more than one occasion and swore that, "I will have your back, don't worry, you will never lose money, I will always make it right." Wolf in sheeps clothing. Surrounded by many who were also criminals, so they seemed even more legitimate because they stood up for each other. Smiling at you while picking your pocket. Val Sotir of Watermark, Marc Gold, Joel Markovitz, Jay Tannenbaum, and more. I never entered a JV partnership with him/them, but did sign up for mastermind training. All it ever was were marketing techniques, rehashed boiler plate documents and empty promises of one-on-one training from him personally, along with hand-holding while you learn the note business -- all lies. He stops returning phone calls almost as soon as the ink is dry on your check. He gets you in to bad notes, that are overpriced and then tells you, "oh well, rookie mistake." So, somehow, even though I'm an experienced professional, successful, full-time real estate investor, who has paid him to show me the ropes about Notes, I am responsible for college level knowledge while I'm still in grade school? Without any of the pre-paid training? The boot camps are all fluff and up-sell. The masterminds are all a giant waste of time and an excuse for him to vacation on others money. He prides himself on pulling one over on good people. He treats everyone like garbage and tells each of them, if they complain, that they are too sensitive and if they can't handle it they are all [expletives]. People think he has a rough around the edges charm and you should just suck it up and laugh. But he is abusive and a criminal. He took a lot of our money in 2014. We had also done our due diligence back then, but there was nothing to find at the time. I soon realized it was because he bullies everyone into believing he will ruin them within the small, close-knit community. When I tried to get together a class-action lawsuit, I found most were still under his thumb and hoping he would either come through, or they would find a way to get their money back.
    Belittling him won't get my money back, and I have long ago stopped caring about him. But if this helps someone in any way, it will have been worth taking the time to write it. I always tell people I meet in the business to stay clear of him. 

    If any of you know of a way that we could recover any of our investment, it would mean a great deal to us. We would like to retire one day, but spent a good portion of our investment dollars with him and his fellow criminals that we have never had hope of seeing again. I told Scott Carson, when we signed up in 2014, that I have 3 medical conditions and won't be able to work through age 70, so please promise me you will help us to help ourselves through these investments. We work hard and smart, are quick learners, quick to take action, and follow-through, but he needs to assure we won't lose the investment money-that he will train us well and provide access to good notes. He promised me. He lied. Over, and over again, until we just had to walk away. DO NOT INVEST WITH SCOTT CARSON.

    Best wishes to everyone!
    Michele Orgel

    7Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    @Michele Orgel  while I am no way defending this guy don't know him..  but I think its a little unrealistic to invest in non performing and probably second position notes and expect to not lose money on some or many of them.. if they represented that you would not lose then that certainly is not right.. I mean if people stopped paying the chance of them repaying is not all that great it happens of course but the chance of then going back to bad behavior is very high.. if you get them to work out fine. .but you certainly go into this knowing that your going to own a lot of real estate..  Of course I have no way of knowing the reps and warranties.. I just point this out for others.. no one can make guarantees that you will not lose money when in fact the collateral your buying is already damaged and is junior position.. Again making the assumption these are non performing seconds.. takes a special company to make those all work.  I think its unrealistic for individuals who cant buy a few million dollars worth to think this is some type of retirement strategy.  people get sucked in on the high return.. high return is high risk

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