ATTENTION PROPERTY MANAGERS ‼️ I Need Your Help

Engelo RumoraBusiness Member

Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

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James Wise

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

Quote from @Alan F.:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:

Quit crying about someone willing to give you thousands of dollars per month. Negotiate and find a way to make it work!

Cool story bro.

"Willing to gIvE thousands of dollars " lol

This is prolly the dude with the 189 units hahah.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2y
my advice is to talk to @Nathan Gesner as well.. I am no expert on PM .
As for expanding your business its just a math problem and do the numbers work.
best of luck with it..
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JLH Capital Partners51 Review
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Alan F.
Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

As you know I'm not a PM, I'm a contractor, but do contract to some large PM's. If I was approached about 4&5 they'd be looking for a different contractor. As you mentioned, it's my business and I set the terms. Just my $ 02
1 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

my advice is to talk to @Nathan Gesner as well.. I am no expert on PM .
As for expanding your business its just a math problem and do the numbers work.
best of luck with it..

Thanks Jay,

I forgot about tagging Nathan.

I don't think he likes me that much though haha
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5368 Reviews
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Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Alan F.:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

As you know I'm not a PM, I'm a contractor, but do contract to some large PM's. If I was approached about 4&5 they'd be looking for a different contractor. As you mentioned, it's my business and I set the terms. Just my $ 02

Thanks mate,

Appreciate the reply
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5368 Reviews
Website View Page
1 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone
Hit them with a 5 knuckle shuffle bro.
2 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

OK just actually read this.. they want to micro manage you.. sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.. In my mind PM HAS to make money on repairs etc. And having them talk directly with your contractors trying to beat them down will drag things out and probably cause you to lose vendors.. thats my two cents on it From someone who has never owned a PM company but has managed a lot of my own stuff..
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
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1 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

OK just actually read this.. they want to micro manage you.. sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.. In my mind PM HAS to make money on repairs etc. And having them talk directly with your contractors trying to beat them down will drag things out and probably cause you to lose vendors.. thats my two cents on it From someone who has never owned a PM company but has managed a lot of my own stuff..

You can't get an apartment painted for $300 by anyone other than a drug addict. These guys sound like slumlord pieces of crap who's only profit margin is created by stiffing PM's, Contractors and anyone else they "do business with". Post their info, let's look into their background. I am sure we'd find lawsuits and dirt with a very moderate dive into them.
3 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2y
Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

OK just actually read this.. they want to micro manage you.. sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.. In my mind PM HAS to make money on repairs etc. And having them talk directly with your contractors trying to beat them down will drag things out and probably cause you to lose vendors.. thats my two cents on it From someone who has never owned a PM company but has managed a lot of my own stuff..

You can't get an apartment painted for $300 by anyone other than a drug addict. These guys sound like slumlord pieces of crap who's only profit margin is created by stiffing PM's, Contractors and anyone else they "do business with". Post their info, let's look into their background. I am sure we'd find lawsuits and dirt with a very moderate dive into them.

I did know of apartment specific painters that would do rooms for 100 each and the whole 900 sq ft apartment for r900 including paint.. but that was 20 plus years ago.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
1 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

OK just actually read this.. they want to micro manage you.. sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.. In my mind PM HAS to make money on repairs etc. And having them talk directly with your contractors trying to beat them down will drag things out and probably cause you to lose vendors.. thats my two cents on it From someone who has never owned a PM company but has managed a lot of my own stuff..

You can't get an apartment painted for $300 by anyone other than a drug addict. These guys sound like slumlord pieces of crap who's only profit margin is created by stiffing PM's, Contractors and anyone else they "do business with". Post their info, let's look into their background. I am sure we'd find lawsuits and dirt with a very moderate dive into them.

I did know of apartment specific painters that would do rooms for 100 each and the whole 900 sq ft apartment for r900 including paint.. but that was 20 plus years ago.

These turds probably make Marko look like a legitimate businessman.
2 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2y
Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

OK just actually read this.. they want to micro manage you.. sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.. In my mind PM HAS to make money on repairs etc. And having them talk directly with your contractors trying to beat them down will drag things out and probably cause you to lose vendors.. thats my two cents on it From someone who has never owned a PM company but has managed a lot of my own stuff..

You can't get an apartment painted for $300 by anyone other than a drug addict. These guys sound like slumlord pieces of crap who's only profit margin is created by stiffing PM's, Contractors and anyone else they "do business with". Post their info, let's look into their background. I am sure we'd find lawsuits and dirt with a very moderate dive into them.

I did know of apartment specific painters that would do rooms for 100 each and the whole 900 sq ft apartment for r900 including paint.. but that was 20 plus years ago.

These turds probably make Marko look like a legitimate businessman.

My thought is there are cultural influences at play here
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
1 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

OK just actually read this.. they want to micro manage you.. sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.. In my mind PM HAS to make money on repairs etc. And having them talk directly with your contractors trying to beat them down will drag things out and probably cause you to lose vendors.. thats my two cents on it From someone who has never owned a PM company but has managed a lot of my own stuff..

Agreed mate,

I have no idea why they are even considering hiring a property manager.

We will send them out terms and I'm sure they will bulk at them.

But it is what it is.

I learnt a long time ago that you must be willing to say "No" to good opportunities so that you can say "Yes" to great ones.

I'm also proud of the team as this would be a chunky commission for Sean but even he isn't for taking on this business under current terms.
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5368 Reviews
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1 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

OK just actually read this.. they want to micro manage you.. sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.. In my mind PM HAS to make money on repairs etc. And having them talk directly with your contractors trying to beat them down will drag things out and probably cause you to lose vendors.. thats my two cents on it From someone who has never owned a PM company but has managed a lot of my own stuff..

You can't get an apartment painted for $300 by anyone other than a drug addict. These guys sound like slumlord pieces of crap who's only profit margin is created by stiffing PM's, Contractors and anyone else they "do business with". Post their info, let's look into their background. I am sure we'd find lawsuits and dirt with a very moderate dive into them.

haha, Glad I tagged you mate.

You are my kinda guy lol
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Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

OK just actually read this.. they want to micro manage you.. sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.. In my mind PM HAS to make money on repairs etc. And having them talk directly with your contractors trying to beat them down will drag things out and probably cause you to lose vendors.. thats my two cents on it From someone who has never owned a PM company but has managed a lot of my own stuff..

You can't get an apartment painted for $300 by anyone other than a drug addict. These guys sound like slumlord pieces of crap who's only profit margin is created by stiffing PM's, Contractors and anyone else they "do business with". Post their info, let's look into their background. I am sure we'd find lawsuits and dirt with a very moderate dive into them.

I did know of apartment specific painters that would do rooms for 100 each and the whole 900 sq ft apartment for r900 including paint.. but that was 20 plus years ago.

These turds probably make Marko look like a legitimate businessman.

My thought is there are cultural influences at play here

People can call me racist or prejudice all they want.

I'm none and never will be.

I'm realist but there is something to be said about cultural influences mate.

I've witnessed many of them over 5,000+ investor intro calls and will leave it that.

I'll protect my company and team first and foremost.

Revenue and profit is secondary.

Who $#@%'s on my team, $#%@'s on me also and we fire them in a heart beat.

The team works way to hard to get abused via email, etc...
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Rick BassettBusiness Member
Property Manager · Greater New Haven, CT · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 434 votes
2y
@Engelo Rumora – we would thank them for the opportunity and then elaborate the terms in which we would do business with them, while pretty much ignoring everything that they’ve asked for.
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Rick BassettBusiness Member
Property Manager · Greater New Haven, CT · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 434 votes
2y
@Engelo Rumora we would thank them for the opportunity and then elaborate the terms in which we would do business with them, while pretty much ignoring everything that they’ve asked for.
475-900-3100
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Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Rick Bassett:

@Engelo Rumora we would thank them for the opportunity and then elaborate the terms in which we would do business with them, while pretty much ignoring everything that they’ve asked for.

Thanks Rick,

I like it

I appreciate your reply
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Jill F.
Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Oh dang they meant they got an entire 2 bedroom apartment painted for $300??!!! Akron is usually cheaper than most places and that's what one decent size bedroom would cost here.
0 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Engelo my PM Brokerage is not in my name tag here but last checked we are #2 SFR PMc in U.S.A.. Dozens of branch/market offices throughout US of which I am out of national HQ. We have a client right now that I can not name, but if lookup the top 5 organizations in residential housing, there on that list, an absolute TITAN, and no we do NOT do anything like this even for them.... Nor anybody, this list is not viable nor realistic.
1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.
NO, full-stop. Nobody and I mean NOBODY get's admin access into any of our systems. If Jesus came back and got into rentals NO, N-O-B-O-D-Y get's admin access into our system.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.
Being a PMc I'd invite them to acquire any of the readily available construction estimating tools/software out there such as RSMeans, but would not take on such a task as building and maintaining such a database, honestly for any $, it's simply not what we do.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.
A-ok.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.
I'd be fine with this as long as they sign a waiver that they own any/all negative impacts that result from such including extended vacancy periods, vendor refusals of service necessitating there own self-search to secure amicable vendor etc etc..

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300
LMAO! And what corner of the Ozark's is this in? In most markets that's closer to "A" room paint with trip charges. Again, happy to coordinate with YOUR contractors for services but no, no assurance of any price because we are a PMc not a remodeling firm nor a painting contractor, right.

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.
Sure, I'd be happy to do this WITH an addendum that for any vacancy do to there actions or inactions those units be accounted as leased for calculations.
To be honest Engelo if I had anyone reach out with this I'd laugh at them, literally. This is so abusive and extortionist in nature, and so disconnected from any sense of reality I'd really have to question the general intelligence of the persons presenting such.
Some make think my statement arrogant but it's experienced, and I think you get me Engelo. Anyone who's been in this business for a time, they know how crazy some of these requests are. Come on, admin access, really! How many laws does that violate for starters on assorted privacy.
If they wanted there own separate stand alone appfolio, so it's segregated data to them, ok solved data privacy but why not internalize PM's than?
The whole thing wreaks to high hell in my opinion. Either it's a setup for failure, and they know it, so no go. OR it's a setup for failure and there too clueless to know which is arguably even worse because every little everything your going to be dealing with morons every step of the way, arrogant ignorant's....
If anything I'd offer them a limited service offering. Offer to do TP's for there own self-managing but all that they want, no way, it's crazy.
Let the start-up PM's who get all in aww over a portfolio run themself bankrupt trying to service Mein Fueler, because you know that's what's going to happen.
3 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
2y
Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Engelo my PM Brokerage is not in my name tag here but last checked we are #2 SFR PMc in U.S.A.. Dozens of branch/market offices throughout US of which I am out of national HQ. We have a client right now that I can not name, but if lookup the top 5 organizations in residential housing, there on that list, an absolute TITAN, and no we do NOT do anything like this even for them.... Nor anybody, this list is not viable nor realistic.
1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.
NO, full-stop. Nobody and I mean NOBODY get's admin access into any of our systems. If Jesus came back and got into rentals NO, N-O-B-O-D-Y get's admin access into our system.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.
Being a PMc I'd invite them to acquire any of the readily available construction estimating tools/software out there such as RSMeans, but would not take on such a task as building and maintaining such a database, honestly for any $, it's simply not what we do.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.
A-ok.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.
I'd be fine with this as long as they sign a waiver that they own any/all negative impacts that result from such including extended vacancy periods, vendor refusals of service necessitating there own self-search to secure amicable vendor etc etc..

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300
LMAO! And what corner of the Ozark's is this in? In most markets that's closer to "A" room paint with trip charges. Again, happy to coordinate with YOUR contractors for services but no, no assurance of any price because we are a PMc not a remodeling firm nor a painting contractor, right.

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.
Sure, I'd be happy to do this WITH an addendum that for any vacancy do to there actions or inactions those units be accounted as leased for calculations.
To be honest Engelo if I had anyone reach out with this I'd laugh at them, literally. This is so abusive and extortionist in nature, and so disconnected from any sense of reality I'd really have to question the general intelligence of the persons presenting such.
Some make think my statement arrogant but it's experienced, and I think you get me Engelo. Anyone who's been in this business for a time, they know how crazy some of these requests are. Come on, admin access, really! How many laws does that violate for starters on assorted privacy.
If they wanted there own separate stand alone appfolio, so it's segregated data to them, ok solved data privacy but why not internalize PM's than?
The whole thing wreaks to high hell in my opinion. Either it's a setup for failure, and they know it, so no go. OR it's a setup for failure and there too clueless to know which is arguably even worse because every little everything your going to be dealing with morons every step of the way, arrogant ignorant's....
If anything I'd offer them a limited service offering. Offer to do TP's for there own self-managing but all that they want, no way, it's crazy.
Let the start-up PM's who get all in aww over a portfolio run themself bankrupt trying to service Mein Fueler, because you know that's what's going to happen.

Engelo, when are you posting their info? If you ended up taking these clients on, they'd have no hesitation to drag your company and tell other investors you don't know what you are doing after one of their units sat empty for 6 months, because the only ones who's show up for the money they are paying are drug addicts. and as we all know (or should know) drug addicts don't do good work.
I'm guessing you may be hesitant to post their info because they are the "customer" and you are the "business" but that's total crap. This is a business to business transaction. These wankers apparently have 179 units or whatever it was. This is not some random accidental homeowner who wants to be a landlord and doesn't understand the PM industry. These dongs are professional grifters and should be treated as such.
3 Reply
Drew SygitBusiness Member
Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
2y
@Engelo Rumora it's easy to tell them to get lost, but what's making them want these things?
They've obviously been burned in the past.
They also really don't value PMCs and probably think they are way smarter than us.
But, why haven't they started their own PMC yet?
- Funny story, did business with a "turnkey" company here in Metro Detroit. They referred us all their business, but didn't like our TakeOver Evaluation Videos that showed too many renovation issues. Everything we did was fine. When we wouldn't stop giving our mutual clients those videos they stopped using us and started their own PMC. They didn't even last 18 months before selling it to someone getting started in the PMC biz (who got screwed on the purchase).
I've learned the hard way that potential customers don't like to hear the word, "NO"! None of us like ultimatums or, "take it or leave it" offers either.
It's better to offer them 2-3 options where you "win" no matter which they choose.
Another great technique is to ask them an open-ended question(s) that gets them to see the challenge from your point of view.
So, let's apply these to their requests:
1) This is more common than you'd think. Have had several owners ask for it over the years. Have given it serious consideration. With Propertyware (our PMC software) you can limit what they see to just their portfolio and even limit access to accounting, applications, etc. What's stopped us from doing it is they would be able to see our internal notes & conlogs - which they could then use against us to tell us how to run our business and further micro-manage us.
Every prospective owner that's requested this from us, I've been able to ask enough questions to identify the info they really want and then provide custom reports that cover it. Of course, some have been adament about the access and inflexible, so we pass.
2) I'd really like to do this someday and keep hoping a company offers something affordable for PMCs to use. Off the top of my head I can name 20+ tasks I know the costs of. So, don't assume and just ask them for their list of maintenance items to see how big & detailed it is, to assess if it's even feasible. Worse-case, I'd ask them how much they want to pay me to develop this list for them - which would include an annual fee to update it.

3) We've always done this, so no bid deal to us. Can tell you though, that owners start getting greedy and want you to cut what they contractually agreed to. They always think everythings so easy and PMCs charge too much!
4) This conflicts with #2, so ask them what they hope to accomplish. I'd tell them they do not get access to our maintenance staff or contractors as we've had clients in the past try to steal them. Instead offer to review any nonemergency bid over $x with them.
5) Knee-jerk reaction is to laugh at this. I'd ask them open-ended questions to get them to detail exactly what the $300 covers. Guessing it's really just a bit of wall cleaning and touchups. Ask them for pics & invoices to prove what they've gotten for $300.
6) This is really short-sighted of them! If they're going down this path, what they really should be measuring is collected rents. Otherwise, you can just throw any applicant in their properties.
Had someone with around 50 doors ask for something similar several years back. They balked when I asked them for proof of their portfolio's past performance - which led me to believe they were aiming too high.
I'd ask them where they got their 90% number from. Doubt they have any local market data to support. At best they might be using national data, but that's not useful unless it separates Class A, B, C & D properties.
Also ask them who gets to set rent amounts and the reno standards of their properties. If they want to control these, how are you supposed to adapt to market realities?
Approached the right way, you may have a chance of modifying their requests to be more reasonable and ones you can work with. If you do business with them, just be careful of how much access they have to your staff as if it doesn't work out, they could try to steal them to start their own PMC.
Buzz me if you want to brainstorm more about it.
[email protected]248-209-6824
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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

I don't think he likes me that much though haha
Not sure why I would have anything against you?

You can't run a business if you tailor your processes to each owner, no matter how big they are. Creating customized procedures is going to result in more work, more mistakes, and more frustration than it's worth.

I also agree with the others that these owners sound like cheap-skate micro-managers. I wouldn't spend more than two sentences rejecting them.
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James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

I don't think he likes me that much though haha
Not sure why I would have anything against you?

You can't run a business if you tailor your processes to each owner, no matter how big they are. Creating customized procedures is going to result in more work, more mistakes, and more frustration than it's worth.

I also agree with the others that these owners sound like cheap-skate micro-managers. I wouldn't spend more than two sentences rejecting them.

2 sentences isn't necessary. Only need 2 words bro.
1 Reply
Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
2y
Quote from @James Wise:

I had to look it up. I haven't watched wrestling since the early 90s. Macho Man!

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Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Engelo my PM Brokerage is not in my name tag here but last checked we are #2 SFR PMc in U.S.A.. Dozens of branch/market offices throughout US of which I am out of national HQ. We have a client right now that I can not name, but if lookup the top 5 organizations in residential housing, there on that list, an absolute TITAN, and no we do NOT do anything like this even for them.... Nor anybody, this list is not viable nor realistic.
1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.
NO, full-stop. Nobody and I mean NOBODY get's admin access into any of our systems. If Jesus came back and got into rentals NO, N-O-B-O-D-Y get's admin access into our system.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.
Being a PMc I'd invite them to acquire any of the readily available construction estimating tools/software out there such as RSMeans, but would not take on such a task as building and maintaining such a database, honestly for any $, it's simply not what we do.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.
A-ok.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.
I'd be fine with this as long as they sign a waiver that they own any/all negative impacts that result from such including extended vacancy periods, vendor refusals of service necessitating there own self-search to secure amicable vendor etc etc..

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300
LMAO! And what corner of the Ozark's is this in? In most markets that's closer to "A" room paint with trip charges. Again, happy to coordinate with YOUR contractors for services but no, no assurance of any price because we are a PMc not a remodeling firm nor a painting contractor, right.

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.
Sure, I'd be happy to do this WITH an addendum that for any vacancy do to there actions or inactions those units be accounted as leased for calculations.
To be honest Engelo if I had anyone reach out with this I'd laugh at them, literally. This is so abusive and extortionist in nature, and so disconnected from any sense of reality I'd really have to question the general intelligence of the persons presenting such.
Some make think my statement arrogant but it's experienced, and I think you get me Engelo. Anyone who's been in this business for a time, they know how crazy some of these requests are. Come on, admin access, really! How many laws does that violate for starters on assorted privacy.
If they wanted there own separate stand alone appfolio, so it's segregated data to them, ok solved data privacy but why not internalize PM's than?
The whole thing wreaks to high hell in my opinion. Either it's a setup for failure, and they know it, so no go. OR it's a setup for failure and there too clueless to know which is arguably even worse because every little everything your going to be dealing with morons every step of the way, arrogant ignorant's....
If anything I'd offer them a limited service offering. Offer to do TP's for there own self-managing but all that they want, no way, it's crazy.
Let the start-up PM's who get all in aww over a portfolio run themself bankrupt trying to service Mein Fueler, because you know that's what's going to happen.

Engelo, when are you posting their info? If you ended up taking these clients on, they'd have no hesitation to drag your company and tell other investors you don't know what you are doing after one of their units sat empty for 6 months, because the only ones who's show up for the money they are paying are drug addicts. and as we all know (or should know) drug addicts don't do good work.
I'm guessing you may be hesitant to post their info because they are the "customer" and you are the "business" but that's total crap. This is a business to business transaction. These wankers apparently have 179 units or whatever it was. This is not some random accidental homeowner who wants to be a landlord and doesn't understand the PM industry. These dongs are professional grifters and should be treated as such.

Agreed amigo,
Not my style tho mate.
I don't reveal crusty dirty laundry haha
Unless it is for the purpose to defend our/my reputation.
I have a database full of such folks so maybe when I retire, I'll have some fun with it.
By the way, why discriminate against drug addicts? haha
What about the folks smoking ganja all day?
Are they just "smokers" or drug addicts? haha
Maybe we should start another thread with that question haha
Thanks mate and appreciate you
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Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
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Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

I don't think he likes me that much though haha
Not sure why I would have anything against you?

You can't run a business if you tailor your processes to each owner, no matter how big they are. Creating customized procedures is going to result in more work, more mistakes, and more frustration than it's worth.

I also agree with the others that these owners sound like cheap-skate micro-managers. I wouldn't spend more than two sentences rejecting them.

Not sure maybe, maybe cause I have more hair than you.
Jokes mate and appreciate your reply.
Agreed
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