Rejected by a turnkey operation - Ohio Cash Flow

32 Replies

Has anyone else had a horrible experience with Ohio Cash Flow?  Boy I did!


After completing an online form and following up with all of the questions and correspondence that was sent my way (including sending my proof of cash funds, account statements, etc), these folks let me know they were not interested in working with me. 

I will say I was quite put off. What miffed me the most was the persistent question I was asked about what my expectations of an investment with them would be. I answered this with indicating that I would like to speak with someone to learn more about their program and what they had to offer. It seemed reasonable to me  


However, it was after I expressed frustration that I had sent all the info they asked for and had yet a to have anyone reach out to me regarding the company’s investment opportunities, I was told I did not fit their customer profile and that they would not be able to work with me.

Anyway, they continue to contact me with marketing material from time to time.  With each contact I ask them to remove me from all contact lists.  

I am just curious what others might have experienced???


Thanks for any feedback!

Kelly




Originally posted by @Kelly McClellan :

Has anyone else had a horrible experience with Ohio Cash Flow?  Boy I did!

After completing an online form and following up with all of the questions and correspondence that was sent my way (including sending my proof of cash funds, account statements, etc), these folks let me know they were not interested in working with me. 

I will say I was quite put off. What miffed me the most was the persistent question I was asked about what my expectations of an investment with them would be. I answered this with indicating that I would like to speak with someone to learn more about their program and what they had to offer. It seemed reasonable to me  

However, it was after I expressed frustration that I had sent all the info they asked for and had yet a to have anyone reach out to me regarding the company’s investment opportunities, I was told I did not fit their customer profile and that they would not be able to work with me.

Anyway, they continue to contact me with marketing material from time to time.  With each contact I ask them to remove me from all contact lists.  

I am just curious what others might have experienced???

Thanks for any feedback!

Kelly



They asked the same question for me and I told them that I'm looking to make an all-cash purchase with a true turnkey company that will stand by their product as they own, rehab and rents their properties for me while providing best in class property management services. I've been very happy with them. Their PM services truly are great to work with and they never nickel and dime you for every little thing they do.

I like Toledo properties because the general maintenance and the cost to clean and fix a unit when there is turnover is relatively minimal as the properties are modestly sized. I like the area so much that I actually made purchases in Toledo by myself via the MLS. If my plan were to continue with OOS properties, I'm sure I'd keep searching here or just go through OCF...but I made the decision to stick with my local area and a few overseas locations.

It's also important to be realistic about what kind of return you will be getting with a TK investment....Anything in double-digits is unrealistic for any TK, IMO. 4-6% return is more realistic. 

Thanks for your input, Tony. I appreciate it and it sounds like you have had good luck with them. 

I own a number of rental properties and have been a real estate investor, manager and renovator for about 25 years. I live 100% from the income from our holdings. 

I should mention that I, too, mentioned that I was looking to own property and benefit from the income without having to worry about the management. I did not specifically state any expected returns. I was hoping to get to that conversation once I was able to speak to someone and dig in a little. I live in Columbus just a couple hours from Toledo. I was hopeful that I would be able to extend my holding to another city without concern over management. So far I am still in central Ohio only. 

Happy you are happy with them!



I have not worked with this company but doesn't sound good customer service from your review. I have never heard of a provider rejecting an investor. I worked with Martel Turnkey who are primarily based in Cleveland and Memphis and bought a SFH from them. They were an easy team to work with. Let me know if you want to connect and chat about the purchase process. 

Sounds like there was not a fit in terms of style .. like a Wall Street type trying to hang out with a SoCal surfer type.

Regarding being evasive, it seems to me that maybe the firm needed to realize that I had never done a turnkey deal before and maybe they would be wise to take a moment to explain how their investments work. In other words, what their specialty was. It seems to me that if I told them I was I interested in a single family turnkey property that returned 7% cash on cash net of all expenses and they had opportunities in a multi family investment, I would not want to limit my opportunities. 

I was relying on them to educate me about the company and its investment options. That seems reasonable. Given the fact that I described that I was already an investor in RE, showed cash available and completed all information requests as asked, one would be hard-pressed to see me as a non-qualified prospect. 

It just seemed to me that Ohio Cash Flow was unwilling to be transparent about the operation. 

In any event, I was really just curious if anyone had similar experience with this company. I was not really looking for an explanation or justification of their actions. It seems that at least one person has had a good experience with Ohio Cash Flow. This was not my experience. 

@Kelly McClellan , I had a call with them years ago.  They seemed okay but also seemed very much focused on cash buyers only (first red flag).  They had a 4-plex come online and I asked if they would accept financing on it and they said they would.  After further research, I decided to pass on it.  I would occasionally get emails from them and it was difficult to get a response back when I’d reply, so I just decided to move on.  Over the years as they’ve apparently grown bigger, they seem to project a “better than thou” image with a chip on their shoulder and that doesn’t sit well with me.  Not too long ago, in an effort to clean up their email list, asked if I wanted to be removed and then tried to refer me to another turnkey group in Ohio (that I had already connected with and visited) to pick up a quick referral fee.  I called them out on it and never heard from them again (and hope I never do).  What a waste of my time.  

Originally posted by @Jesse Hopcus :

I called them three times and they never returned my calls. I don’t have time for that. I am on to the next 


 Yes. This was why I was getting frustrated. Had already invested a bit of my time and felt it was time to be able to get to brass tacks...

@Kelly McClellan

Really sad to hear you had such a bad experience with out-of state investing in Ohio in general regardless of where you were planning to invest. If you ever change your mind on investing in Ohio let me know I would be more than happy to help and I can guarantee that will not happen again =)

Originally posted by @Mark S. :

@Kelly McClellan, I had a call with them years ago.  They seemed okay but also seemed very much focused on cash buyers only (first red flag).  They had a 4-plex come online and I asked if they would accept financing on it and they said they would.  After further research, I decided to pass on it.  I would occasionally get emails from them and it was difficult to get a response back when I’d reply, so I just decided to move on.  Over the years as they’ve apparently grown bigger, they seem to project a “better than thou” image with a chip on their shoulder and that doesn’t sit well with me.  Not too long ago, in an effort to clean up their email list, asked if I wanted to be removed and then tried to refer me to another turnkey group in Ohio (that I had already connected with and visited) to pick up a quick referral fee.  I called them out on it and never heard from them again (and hope I never do).  What a waste of my time.  

 Thanks for the info. I guess I am not the only one. 

Hey Kelly, I hate that you are sharing a disappointing experience and I am not a client nor do I have any experience with them as a client, but out of curiosity, I wanted to confirm something you typed above.  Did you mean to say that everything is online and you have to send actual statements for them to keep?  In other words, the only way to move forward is to share sensitive data before you can even speak to someone?  What all was required to be shared?  I find that part highly unusual and I wanted to make sure the way I read that was accurate.

Originally posted by @Kelly McClellan :
Originally posted by @Mark S.:

@Kelly McClellan, I had a call with them years ago.  They seemed okay but also seemed very much focused on cash buyers only (first red flag).  They had a 4-plex come online and I asked if they would accept financing on it and they said they would.  After further research, I decided to pass on it.  I would occasionally get emails from them and it was difficult to get a response back when I’d reply, so I just decided to move on.  Over the years as they’ve apparently grown bigger, they seem to project a “better than thou” image with a chip on their shoulder and that doesn’t sit well with me.  Not too long ago, in an effort to clean up their email list, asked if I wanted to be removed and then tried to refer me to another turnkey group in Ohio (that I had already connected with and visited) to pick up a quick referral fee.  I called them out on it and never heard from them again (and hope I never do).  What a waste of my time.  

 Thanks for the info. I guess I am not the only one.

I don't have a current business relationship with the company..  However I know the owner quite well and was one of his first funding sources for inventory..  Engelo is a True American success story. He comes here from Australia with two nickles in his pocket .. Born in Croatia ..

He is a high energy and he has a  certain client he likes to deal with.  It is NOT  a red flag that a vendor will only work with cash buyers that is just things that are promulgated by other turn key outfits. I mean try to buy a place in Vegas right now without cash.

Bottom line though once your his client I know no one else who does any better at after care.  The same intensity he has on the up front picking what buyers he will work with is the same intensity after the fact and making sure his clients are well taken care of.. You see no mention from anyone about being a bad PM etc or the house broke down 6 months after buying it.

I have been at many speaking engagements where Engelo and I were presenting. And he is quite rough around the edges with some F bombs thrown in but then again the host was doing the same thing.. I am old school I would never personally do that.. But it works for the new crop of younger investors..  Also keep in mind Engelo is NOT a the super high volume TK operator.. so he is far more hands on.. And once your in his camp that same fierce protective attitude envelopes his investors..

I personally have the utmost respect and admiration for Engelo someone that can come to America with nothing and go on to so well for his clients and him and his family this is what made America great.  
















 

Originally posted by @Chris Clothier :

Hey Kelly, I hate that you are sharing a disappointing experience and I am not a client nor do I have any experience with them as a client, but out of curiosity, I wanted to confirm something you typed above.  Did you mean to say that everything is online and you have to send actual statements for them to keep?  In other words, the only way to move forward is to share sensitive data before you can even speak to someone?  What all was required to be shared?  I find that part highly unusual and I wanted to make sure the way I read that was accurate.

Chris I suspect Engelo was just asking for a POF just like I ask from anyone trying to buy any of my properties be them wholesalers or buyers on my new construction we want to know they have the means to transact.. this is usually just a letter from their lender. Or if its a cash purchase a redacted bank statement.. Same thing I provide when I am buying all this inventory for these companies the sellers want my POF.

You know Engelo is a wild man  so this is not shocking  LOL.. 

PS hope your doing well

 

Originally posted by @Chris Clothier :

Hey Kelly, I hate that you are sharing a disappointing experience and I am not a client nor do I have any experience with them as a client, but out of curiosity, I wanted to confirm something you typed above.  Did you mean to say that everything is online and you have to send actual statements for them to keep?  In other words, the only way to move forward is to share sensitive data before you can even speak to someone?  What all was required to be shared?  I find that part highly unusual and I wanted to make sure the way I read that was accurate.

 That is correct. I completed a document (may have been via email. It had been a while) that was asked of me. In addition they made it very clear they were looking fit cash buyers. I indicated that would not be a problem. I sent redacted bank statements as well as redacted brokerage statements. This was all before actually would schedule a time to speak to me. I did not have a problem with using cash. I had provided them with the fact that I already owned over 20 units (it was asked in a form) and enough financial information for them to know I am an accredited investor. 

After I had provided the info, they kept coming back and asking for additional information (at this point requesting I lay out to them what it was I specifically wanted). What I wanted was a representative from the company to speak with me to discuss the process, typical returns, management agreements, etc. 

It had been mentioned that the owner is a little rough around the edges. That doesn’t bother me at all. I like hi energy. I use f bombs myself. What irritated me was that nobody would spend the time to speak to me after I had clearly done my part to prove I was legitimate. 

@Kelly McClellan   I am not defending Engelo  and sometimes if customer service is not what you expect then its NEXT.

also since Chris has chimed in its well known in the industry that Chris's company is best in class with customer service.

I think Engelo in his own way is trying to emulate that on the back end of these deals. Sounds like front end is a little prickly

I will tell you though when Clayton Morris wanted him to provide inventory he turned him down as well. 

Originally posted by @Michael P. :

Sounds like there was not a fit in terms of style .. like a Wall Street type trying to hang out with a SoCal surfer type.

Hey Mike.

Wouldn’t put myself in either category. I own, manage renovate and maintain my own property. I drive a service van and most days I am wearing my grubby work clothes. I have worked hard for years. Have been a scientist, salesman, professional firefighter and through it all, a real estate investor and landlord. 

I get along with most personalities.  

Nobody at that company spent enough “live” time with me to know anything much about me. 

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

@Kelly McClellan  I am not defending Engelo  and sometimes if customer service is not what you expect then its NEXT.

also since Chris has chimed in its well known in the industry that Chris's company is best in class with customer service.

I think Engelo in his own way is trying to emulate that on the back end of these deals. Sounds like front end is a little prickly

I will tell you though when Clayton Morris wanted him to provide inventory he turned him down as well. 

Yep. Next. 

The only reason I brought this  up at all is I have asked them to remove me from marketing call lists. They keep contacting me. Each time they do it just irritates me more than anything. 

Salt in the wound...


Thanks for your input. I am not a big fish. I don’t follow the national sceme closely. I was simply a guy in central Ohio that was looking at options. 

Take care and have a good weekend. 

I'll back what @Jay Hinrichs is saying. Turnkey buyers are new investors and sometimes can be very difficult to work with so I can see a firm who does a good job trying to filter high touch investors. It has nothing to do with how good they are but might be an indicator that they are running a good business where they get to pick their clients.

I have seen many reviews or burn posts here totally messing up a firms reputation where it did not seem the vendor did anything wrong and that it was mostly a highly picky client. Not saying that this is the case but that is the darkside of the Web 2.0 world we live in today.

Disclosure: Engelo Advertises on HoltonWiseTV

Originally posted by @Lane Kawaoka :

I'll back what @Jay Hinrichs is saying. Turnkey buyers are new investors and sometimes can be very difficult to work with so I can see a firm who does a good job trying to filter high touch investors. It has nothing to do with how good they are but might be an indicator that they are running a good business where they get to pick their clients.

I have seen many reviews or burn posts here totally messing up a firms reputation where it did not seem the vendor did anything wrong and that it was mostly a highly picky client. Not saying that this is the case but that is the darkside of the Web 2.0 world we live in today.

As the disclosure says Engelo advertises on my show from time to time but I am not here because of that. To be frank, if Engelo p'd me off or did anything nefarious I'd be the 1st one to tell him to eat it and I think he knows that. 

....But I've got to state the obvious here. They told you that they did not want your money as they thought you would be more trouble than you are worth. You did not do business with them and are still here bashing them online. It seems to me they saw a problem and avoided it. Rental real estate is a tough gig, what type of mud would you be slinging when the inevitable eviction happened? Can't blame the guy for having a sophisticated enough business where he has the ability to deny customers that aren't idea.

Originally posted by @Kelly McClellan :
Originally posted by @Chris Clothier:

Hey Kelly, I hate that you are sharing a disappointing experience and I am not a client nor do I have any experience with them as a client, but out of curiosity, I wanted to confirm something you typed above.  Did you mean to say that everything is online and you have to send actual statements for them to keep?  In other words, the only way to move forward is to share sensitive data before you can even speak to someone?  What all was required to be shared?  I find that part highly unusual and I wanted to make sure the way I read that was accurate.

 That is correct. I completed a document (may have been via email. It had been a while) that was asked of me. In addition they made it very clear they were looking fit cash buyers. I indicated that would not be a problem. I sent redacted bank statements as well as redacted brokerage statements. This was all before actually would schedule a time to speak to me. I did not have a problem with using cash. I had provided them with the fact that I already owned over 20 units (it was asked in a form) and enough financial information for them to know I am an accredited investor. 

After I had provided the info, they kept coming back and asking for additional information (at this point requesting I lay out to them what it was I specifically wanted). What I wanted was a representative from the company to speak with me to discuss the process, typical returns, management agreements, etc. 

It had been mentioned that the owner is a little rough around the edges. That doesn’t bother me at all. I like hi energy. I use f bombs myself. What irritated me was that nobody would spend the time to speak to me after I had clearly done my part to prove I was legitimate. 

 Ok, well, that was all I was asking about info.  It sounds like they use a qualification process and their process includes some financial data in a form you fill out.  Redacted account data probably helps them confirm and even helps buyers self-eliminate.  I imagine they have more buyers than deals.

And, I will add this.  Jay mentioned earlier that my company has a reputation for service.  And yet, we miss things and not every person that speaks with us wants to move forward.  I have to agree that sometimes a company pointing you in another direction is a good thing for you.  We do it all the time when we know we are simply not a good fit for the client.  I get it that you would have liked a phone call to determine that, but they reached their conclusion before that.  I was just curious as to what they were asking for and why and now that you've answered it I can understand what their process is.  I do think they have a good reputation that they have built up over time so perhaps this was just not the communication you wanted but not indicative of them(?).  Either way, good luck with your investing.

Disclosure: The Dingo

Originally posted by @James Wise :
Originally posted by @Lane Kawaoka:

I'll back what @Jay Hinrichs is saying. Turnkey buyers are new investors and sometimes can be very difficult to work with so I can see a firm who does a good job trying to filter high touch investors. It has nothing to do with how good they are but might be an indicator that they are running a good business where they get to pick their clients.

I have seen many reviews or burn posts here totally messing up a firms reputation where it did not seem the vendor did anything wrong and that it was mostly a highly picky client. Not saying that this is the case but that is the darkside of the Web 2.0 world we live in today.

As the disclosure says Engelo advertises on my show from time to time but I am not here because of that. To be frank, if Engelo p'd me off or did anything nefarious I'd be the 1st one to tell him to eat it and I think he knows that. 

....But I've got to state the obvious here. They told you that they did not want your money as they thought you would be more trouble than you are worth. You did not do business with them and are still here bashing them online. It seems to me they saw a problem and avoided it. Rental real estate is a tough gig, what type of mud would you be slinging when the inevitable eviction happened? Can't blame the guy for having a sophisticated enough business where he has the ability to deny customers that aren't idea.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself mate

The pure fact that the poster is going out of their way to post about us is proof that we made the right decision.

We "dodged a bullet" per se.

I "touch" every investor inquiry because we keep our operation boutique and exclusive.

7+ years later and 3,000+ investor calls, plus a thorough pre-screening process enables us to quickly make a decision if we are going to be a good fit.

I have a detailed log in the CRM of basic questions asked that I won't reveal because I don't like dirty laundry being exposed.

Plus my undies are Extra Large so I don't want anyone getting a complex hehehe

We can sell houses to everyone until the cows come home but that's not the way we view our operation...

It's not just about us but also making sure that we can deliver on the investors expectations.

Do we sometimes make mistakes and turn down a potentially good fit?

Off course, it happens.

We are only human.

But I'd rather have it that way then to just take on everyone and sell sell sell like many other companies do.

My sincere apologies to Kelly and I wish you all the best with your endeavors.

ps. Please hit "unsubscribe" and you will be removed from the marketing list.

I'll also email team now to remove from all contact.

Again, my apologies.

Disclosure: The Dingo

Originally posted by @Jesse Hopcus :

I called them three times and they never returned my calls. I don’t have time for that. I am on to the next 

 

I find this hard to believe as we have 3 VA's working around the clock doing call backs, etc...

I also don't see any record of you in our database.

Please advise when you called and I can get the feather out on the team lol 

We usually get everyone to fill out our investor application form and to follow the on-boarding process before we schedule an intro call with yours truly. Me hehe

I wish you much success with your endeavors.

Disclosure: The Dingo

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
Originally posted by @Kelly McClellan :
Originally posted by @Mark S.:

@Kelly McClellan, I had a call with them years ago.  They seemed okay but also seemed very much focused on cash buyers only (first red flag).  They had a 4-plex come online and I asked if they would accept financing on it and they said they would.  After further research, I decided to pass on it.  I would occasionally get emails from them and it was difficult to get a response back when I’d reply, so I just decided to move on.  Over the years as they’ve apparently grown bigger, they seem to project a “better than thou” image with a chip on their shoulder and that doesn’t sit well with me.  Not too long ago, in an effort to clean up their email list, asked if I wanted to be removed and then tried to refer me to another turnkey group in Ohio (that I had already connected with and visited) to pick up a quick referral fee.  I called them out on it and never heard from them again (and hope I never do).  What a waste of my time.  

 Thanks for the info. I guess I am not the only one.

I don't have a current business relationship with the company..  However I know the owner quite well and was one of his first funding sources for inventory..  Engelo is a True American success story. He comes here from Australia with two nickles in his pocket .. Born in Croatia ..

He is a high energy and he has a  certain client he likes to deal with.  It is NOT  a red flag that a vendor will only work with cash buyers that is just things that are promulgated by other turn key outfits. I mean try to buy a place in Vegas right now without cash.

Bottom line though once your his client I know no one else who does any better at after care.  The same intensity he has on the up front picking what buyers he will work with is the same intensity after the fact and making sure his clients are well taken care of.. You see no mention from anyone about being a bad PM etc or the house broke down 6 months after buying it.

I have been at many speaking engagements where Engelo and I were presenting. And he is quite rough around the edges with some F bombs thrown in but then again the host was doing the same thing.. I am old school I would never personally do that.. But it works for the new crop of younger investors..  Also keep in mind Engelo is NOT a the super high volume TK operator.. so he is far more hands on.. And once your in his camp that same fierce protective attitude envelopes his investors..

I personally have the utmost respect and admiration for Engelo someone that can come to America with nothing and go on to so well for his clients and him and his family this is what made America great.  

 

 

You're a true gentleman mate.

You're kind words are much appreciated