Best lead sources for motivated sellers

Member since 2018 · 158 posts · 32 votes

All,

I've spent the past year marketing to sellers whose information I got from propstream & property radar. I have gotten roughly 30 deals of vacant residential lots & SFHs (owner occupied/non-owner occupied/vancant) under contract.

After 100K+ addresses, I'm beginning to hit a wall with finding new motivated sellers. What are some other quality list sources with accurate information? What happens after I exhaust those?

Austin

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Don KonipolBusiness Member

Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes

@Jerryll Noorden

All of the above just to say that it’s better to have people call you wanting to sell their property than for you to call people hoping they want to sell their property

Nobody disagrees with that. However, the profitability depends on many factors, including conversion rates, marketing expenses, size of operation, goals, market area, and many more variables.

Arguing that only someone who calls you fits the definition of motivated while someone you call does not is just plain silly. If I purchase a property significantly below the value I can otherwise I just don’t care if he’s defined as motivated or not.

Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC

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Michael Zane
Real Estate Consultant · Summit, NJ · Member since 2019 · 43 posts · 31 votes
4y
I've had success running a DIY direct mail marketing campaign. I build out my own, targeted lists in the towns where I operate (NJ-based) because I feel that I know these areas better than any list provider. It takes a lot of time to build and maintain lists this way because it requires driving/biking/walking around my target towns or spending ample time on Google Street View. I also have to keep track of ownership changes over time. It's hard work if you're doing it yourself, but I can attest that it works.
It's also the kind of thing where you can establish the process you want to use and then offload the work to your team or a group of VAs. The key skills needed to do this are pretty straightforward - Excel for building a property database, Google Street View, and property tax records to gather ownership information. If done correctly, you can pull together a proprietary list that might even result in a higher response rate compared to purchased lists.
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Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
4y
Austin,

I will tell you that probably goes agianst everything you have heard about.

Lists do not get you motivated sellers. It is physically not possible.

No list, no system can get you motivarted sellers. It is a lie. It is an illusion.

NOTICE:

I am not saying you can not get a deal using a list. Not saying that. Yes you CAN get a deal... but it is luck. You just happen to have a motivated seller on your list, or more accurately, you simply got someone on your list that so happened to be willing to sell their house to you at the price you negotiated.

Today you are not motivated, tomorrow ytou are. You don't get tagged in some database that NOW you are motivated, right? NO ONE knows anyone happen to be motivated except themselves.

Foreclosure, absentee owners, tax liens, NONE of these people are inherently motivated.

CAN a foreclosure person be motivated? SURE they can, but NOT BECAUSE they are in flreclosure does it mean they are motivated. See the difference?

The only way to accurately reach motivated sellers is when they find YOU. When they are motivated they will take it upon themselves to find a buyer. If they find you, then you got a motivated seller.

You do this through ranking your credible website #1. That is litterly the ONLY way you can accuratly get in touch with motivated sellers. Anything lese is luck.

If you don't believe me.. considder this.

Every100 mailers you send out, 99 people will say "no". 1 will say "yes" (the numnbers are more like every 2300 "no" to one "yes".. but who is counting...

What this means is that you can EXPECT a no. The norm is no. The oddity is "yes" the exception is yes.

That is my point.

Lists do not work, period, ... BUT there are ALWAYS exceptions to any rule right? That is your "exception". Every time you make a deal, that was an exception. The norm is NO.

In other words you got lucky.

And that is WHY iy costs you SO mamny mailers, calls, texts to snag ONE deal right?

You need to shiuft through ALLLLLLLL theses NOs to find your rare "YESes".

That is why you are having a hard time.

Most won't believe me... or they do but they choose to ignore it... but if you choose to ignore this, you will never change right?

The only way to find motivated sllers is when they find you.

ONLY THEY know they are motivated. No system can extract motivated sellers from the public. Can't Doesn't exist. Today you are not motivated, .. tomorrow you are. How is anyone to know you suddenly became motivated?

Foreclosure, absentee owner, tax liens, probate.. most of these people are not motivated. It is an illusion. Someone in foreclosure rather pour concrete down the drain than sell to you.

How many of you have investment properties? (absentee owners). How many of you are going to sell m e their house when you have horrible tenants for pennies on the dollar to me? None?

If you wouldn't why do you assume others would?

No. it is all a lie. All wrong.

The only way to actually find motivated sellers,.. they have to find YOU!

only THEY know when they are mnotivated and they will take it upon themselves to get their house sold and they WILL go to Google to find that solution and you need to be found.

Website, Crediblitly, Rank #1.

Sorry to say.. that is the only way to reliably get motivated sellers. But yes, you can always count on "luck" and go for lists. This is the truth!

Lastly.. be carefule when people say "I had succes withj". or "This works for me".

What does that mean? What do they call "it works" what do they mean with "success"

Is a 3% conversion or successrate "it works"? Is "success anything where you need to send thousands of mailers for one deal"? Is that "success"?

Someone's standard shouldn't be the same as your standard.

People are comparing words, not DATA.

People need to start saying:

My DMM consists of sending out 4000 mailers and got 1 contract signed, and spend 3 weeks closing that deal and got a X% ROI out of it

THAT is data, that is something you can measure something by... Not "I got success with DMM".

Don't mean to be offensive here. It is just incredible how there is no analytical prowess on these forums. Someone just has to say "it works" and everyone gets visions of themselves swimming in a pool of gold coins.

"it works" or "I had great success" doesn't.mean.squat!!

For someone sending out 24000 mailers and gets $3K in profits in 5 weeks, to them "it works".. for me, that is horrible. See what I mean?
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Wale LawalBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Houston | Dallas | Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
@Austin Bright
Motivated sellers are everywhere; you just need to know how to find them. Here are some tips for how to find motivated sellers:
Driving for dollars
Bandit signs
Direct mail
Targeting FSBOs
Referrals
Estate sales
Public or courthouse records
County foreclosure sales
Lender REO sales
Property listing sites)
Paid online ads
Free online ads (Craigslist etc)
Word of mouth
MLS expired listings
SEO
Social media
SMS marketing.
Good Luck!
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Shiela R.
Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2017 · 304 posts · 347 votes
4y
@Austin Bright, try the NOD or Notice of Default list. These are the people headed to foreclosure. If your area is too hot aka a seller's market, try a neighboring county? You get the NOD list from the county clerk and recorder. Many counties are online these days.
3 Reply
Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Austin Bright:

All,

I've spent the past year marketing to sellers whose information I got from propstream & property radar. I have gotten roughly 30 deals of vacant residential lots & SFHs (owner occupied/non-owner occupied/vancant) under contract.

After 100K+ addresses, I'm beginning to hit a wall with finding new motivated sellers. What are some other quality list sources with accurate information? What happens after I exhaust those?

Austin

There’s lots I disagree with as to @Jerryll Noorden, but I agree strongly with his above post.
Lists of foreclosures, out of town owners, etc., are more likely to contain sellers motivated at this time than a general list of property owners, yes. However, these lists have been worked so hard, so often, that it is exceedingly difficult to profit using direct mail, direct solicitation, etc. can be done, but takes a consistent program with a fairly high level of spending to make it worth while. it did work much better 40 years ago before everyone and his brother started doing it.
Having your targeted audience come to you is a much easier way to do business. While I have no experience with a ‘we buy homes’ website, and I would imagine it would take a very well designed site to stand out from the others, I do have extensive experience with our hard money lending website.
When I first rolled out the site it was a cookie cutter pasted from a free program from a hosting service. And while we got a fair number of hits, conversion was a problem. I then learned web development, upgraded the site, and the result was more quality hits, more conversions, more loans.
After a while the competition caught up and passed us. I hired a web master, who utilized a SEO specialist as well as a developer to maximize the site, utilizing testing and various other tools I knew little about. We had a jump again in hits, conversions and loans, and sailed nicely through the next three years.
I made the decision this year to see if I gave our web master a free hand and let her suggest a budget, if that would lead to even better results. So I spent an additional $10k on web site redesign and SEO, and the results have been incredible. Our bottom line is up 55% this year, and all of the increase is a result of increased deal flow originating from our web presence. Take from this whatever you want, but I’m sold.

Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
Website View Page
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Austin Bright
OP
Member since 2018 · 158 posts · 32 votes
4y
Quote from @Don Konipol: How much does good SEO cost a month? I’ve heard around $5,000 a month.

Currently I spend $1,300 a month and close 1-2 deals using texting automation. That’s far more cost effective for me. 1 or 2 months of no deals from SEO @ $5,000 per month will wipe out nearly all profit I’ve made in the last 2 yrs. That’s a huge gamble.

Quote from @Austin Bright:

All,

I've spent the past year marketing to sellers whose information I got from propstream & property radar. I have gotten roughly 30 deals of vacant residential lots & SFHs (owner occupied/non-owner occupied/vancant) under contract.

After 100K+ addresses, I'm beginning to hit a wall with finding new motivated sellers. What are some other quality list sources with accurate information? What happens after I exhaust those?

Austin

There’s lots I disagree with as to @Jerryll Noorden, but I agree strongly with his above post.
Lists of foreclosures, out of town owners, etc., are more likely to contain sellers motivated at this time than a general list of property owners, yes. However, these lists have been worked so hard, so often, that it is exceedingly difficult to profit using direct mail, direct solicitation, etc. can be done, but takes a consistent program with a fairly high level of spending to make it worth while. it did work much better 40 years ago before everyone and his brother started doing it.
Having your targeted audience come to you is a much easier way to do business. While I have no experience with a ‘we buy homes’ website, and I would imagine it would take a very well designed site to stand out from the others, I do have extensive experience with our hard money lending website.
When I first rolled out the site it was a cookie cutter pasted from a free program from a hosting service. And while we got a fair number of hits, conversion was a problem. I then learned web development, upgraded the site, and the result was more quality hits, more conversions, more loans.
After a while the competition caught up and passed us. I hired a web master, who utilized a SEO specialist as well as a developer to maximize the site, utilizing testing and various other tools I knew little about. We had a jump again in hits, conversions and loans, and sailed nicely through the next three years.
I made the decision this year to see if I gave our web master a free hand and let her suggest a budget, if that would lead to even better results. So I spent an additional $10k on web site redesign and SEO, and the results have been incredible. Our bottom line is up 55% this year, and all of the increase is a result of increased deal flow originating from our web presence. Take from this whatever you want, but I’m sold.

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Austin Bright
OP
Member since 2018 · 158 posts · 32 votes
4y
What about Google AdWords? FB Ads?
0 Reply
Duane Alexander
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2020 · 253 posts · 240 votes
4y
If you have 100k addresses, do not sleep on just recycling your current data. Marketing is all about timing. I know people who recycle the same 40k leads and do 5-10 deals a month.
2 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Don Konipol:

Quote from @Austin Bright:

All,

I've spent the past year marketing to sellers whose information I got from propstream & property radar. I have gotten roughly 30 deals of vacant residential lots & SFHs (owner occupied/non-owner occupied/vancant) under contract.

After 100K+ addresses, I'm beginning to hit a wall with finding new motivated sellers. What are some other quality list sources with accurate information? What happens after I exhaust those?

Austin

There’s lots I disagree with as to @Jerryll Noorden, but I agree strongly with his above post.
Lists of foreclosures, out of town owners, etc., are more likely to contain sellers motivated at this time than a general list of property owners, yes. However, these lists have been worked so hard, so often, that it is exceedingly difficult to profit using direct mail, direct solicitation, etc. can be done, but takes a consistent program with a fairly high level of spending to make it worth while. it did work much better 40 years ago before everyone and his brother started doing it.
Having your targeted audience come to you is a much easier way to do business. While I have no experience with a ‘we buy homes’ website, and I would imagine it would take a very well designed site to stand out from the others, I do have extensive experience with our hard money lending website.
When I first rolled out the site it was a cookie cutter pasted from a free program from a hosting service. And while we got a fair number of hits, conversion was a problem. I then learned web development, upgraded the site, and the result was more quality hits, more conversions, more loans.
After a while the competition caught up and passed us. I hired a web master, who utilized a SEO specialist as well as a developer to maximize the site, utilizing testing and various other tools I knew little about. We had a jump again in hits, conversions and loans, and sailed nicely through the next three years.
I made the decision this year to see if I gave our web master a free hand and let her suggest a budget, if that would lead to even better results. So I spent an additional $10k on web site redesign and SEO, and the results have been incredible. Our bottom line is up 55% this year, and all of the increase is a result of increased deal flow originating from our web presence. Take from this whatever you want, but I’m sold.

That is the funny thing about opinions.
You have all the right to agree or disagree, however you are factually wrong if you say foreclosure lists contain motivated seller. See all you present is OPINION, while I bring you DATA:
LOTS of DATA.
All these people here are motivated and organic. I got ZERO foreclosures hitting my website asking me to please buy their house. You really need tpo let go of emotion, passion or stubbornness. Your opinion SIMPLY DOESN'T MATTER!!
DATA does.
Be careful though, I am not saying you will not close deals hitting the foreclosure list. But that was not his question was it. His question is motivated leads sources. The foreclosure list, although the possibility exists that there are motivated sellers in between the majority that are not motivated, in general, the majority are NOT motivated sellers.
Remember, a motivated seller is not someone that wants to sell. A motivated seller is someone willing to accept an offer BELOW market value.
Again, stop with the opinions, stop with "i know better, best"... just bring data to the table and we can have a constructive diuscussion, but in all honesty as long as you kjust pull things out of thin air, there truly is not much substanance to the post. There is just no credibility when all one presents are opinions. I detest that, more so as my entire life I have been a scientist, engineer and researcher.
I absolutely know you are wrong.. BUT I am not always right, hence I am very open to listen and review actual factual data you have and we can constructivbely figure things out. But it is qute pointless to tell me that foreclosure lists are motivated when I JUST showed you through concrete proof that they aren't right?
But I am not going to tell you that you are wrong and leave it at that. I will logically tell you why (I think) you are wrong.
You say at "this time" these lists contain motivated sellers.
That is not true.
At this time this list contain people that MUST sell. Sure I can get behind that.
There is your mistake, and it is obvious you do not understand the point I am trying to make. Here it is.
Someone that must sell, has to sell, needs to sell, are not inherently "motivated".
Someone that is willing to sell below market value regardless of reason why... THAT is a motivated seller.
You are confusing the increase on people willing to sell, with the increase of people on those lists willint to sell at a discount.
See... timing has nothing to do with it.
What is the differance between 4 years ago, there being 1 guy that is in foreclosure (with nothing going on in society) and today with 300000 people in florclcosure now that there is crap going on in society?
There is not much difference.
Someone in foreclosure does NOT want to sell. They MUST sell.. sure.. but they do NOT WANT to sell.
Let me ask you this.. what do you think is the better lead?
Someone that MUST sell, or someone that wants to sell?
Wrong.
Someone that MUST sell (but doesn't want to sell) will fight it. They will always find a reason to try to not sell.
However, someone that WANTS to sell, will find a reason to get it done. They will do what ever it takes to get it sold.
Someone in foreclosure will always prefer to keep their hous ethan to sell, THUS they are NOT motivated to sell. They are forced to sell. Motivated and forced are very diferent.
THAT is your flaw.
Now this is very important.
You can absolutely disagree with this analogy but you can't disagree with the fact that people on the foreclosure list are NOT motivated. Data proves it.
Now, you can be stubborn and defiant, absolutely. That is on you. But arguing with me is not going to make you right. Present factual intelligent data and we will revise this discussion but untill you do, all you presented is mere opinion that is already been proven to be wrong.
2 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Duane Alexander:

If you have 100k addresses, do not sleep on just recycling your current data. Marketing is all about timing. I know people who recycle the same 40k leads and do 5-10 deals a month.

Anyone that relies on timing is relying on luck. This sounds harsh but this is true.

Do not rely on timing. You need to resonate with your ideal audience and there is no need for timing.

See, you can guess and strategize the best time to target people in foreclosure... and..... wait for it... wait for it.... NOW NOW NOW send m,ailers send mailers send mailers... phew. We sent 400000 mailers... How many did we get??

Right?

Instead...

if you just place bait, the right bait for the right prey there is not relying on timing, no guessing. You will catch that prey, period.

You need to attract the right audience with the right message. That is marketing.

There are absolutely elements of timing, but these are not what you think.

Example.

Yes absolutely 3 months before Halloween start planting pumpkins. Everyone wants to buy pumpkins this time of year right?

But is this really timing? NO! This is PLANNING!!

Again, this is targeting the right audience with the right message.

You simply have a new audience during november and you are simply targeting that new audience with the right message: "Cheap large plump Pumpkins".

Now everyone consider this.

Biggerpockets is KNOWN for ego their users have. There is nothing wrong with having an ego, but you need to learn how to control it. Let go of this and see these posts for what they are. I am not on a mission to make everyone wrong... and be right. I am here to teach and show you the truth. You either accept this truth, or not. (This is why I always use data, screenshot evidence when I make a claim).

But if someone shows you something with intelligence, logic and common sense... WHY are you not accepting it? Why can't people say.. ":I see, you have a great point, THANK YOU".. people simply can't and this is sad.

Up to you all. Chose to adopt and improve, or be defiant.
0 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Austin Bright:

What about Google AdWords? FB Ads?

Do a Google search for: "How many people click on paid ads"
Less than 10% click on paid ads.
This is not hard to believe right?
How often have you clicked on a paid ad when you were very seriously trying to find a solution to a problem on Google?
Amd I saying PPC and FB Ads are horrible?
YES!
BUT do it anyways. Those are the ONLY paid marketing I would advise to others, along with Youtubem Instagram and TikTok. Why do I say it sucks? Well look at the clickthrough rates. Then look at the conversion rates. They are horrible!
But they are GUARANTEED to work, as long as you have the right budget and target the right audience. As long as you have those 2 down (and you have a good product/service of course) you WILL get a fabulous return, GUARANTEED!
0 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
4y
All.

Stop thinking that: "People Willing/Need/Have to sell = Motivated sellers". WRONG. EVERY single one of you here on this tread is making this mistake.

YES people in foreclosure may need/want/have to sell. Yes. That doesn't make them MOTIVATED sellers.

A motivated seller is anyone willing to accept an offer below market value (regardless of reason).

Unless you can prove to me that if you send 100 foreclosure people a mailer and 80% (80 of the 100 people in foreclosures) are willing to accept an offer below market value, in other words 80 of the 100 will sign a contract and close with you, the foreclosure list is not a motivated seller list. I am talking about the LIST. I am not talking about whether or not someone on that list can't be motivated. Big difference. Yes you absolutely can be fortunate and have a few motivated people on that list. sure. Not the same!

Consider this.

if you send 100 mailers and 50 sign a contract, this is considered LUCK. Right? It is a 50/50 chance. It could go either way. Heads or tails. Flip a coin. LUCK!!

If 50% is "luck" what do you consider LESS than 3%? Success? Do you not see how dumb this is?!

If you have 50 red balls and 50 blue balls in a bucket, mix them all up. and close your eyes and pick one. Are you going to tell me it is more likely to pick a red ball over a blue ball? No right? There is no difference.

People... so many of you do not understand this basic common sense logic and as long as you don't... You are throwing your money away on marketing. It is so simple a child understands this. I honestly do not understand why I have to spell it out for people to see it.. It is absolutely bonkers.

NO list, no foreclosures, no absentee owners NONE will provide you motivated sellers.

Can you make a deal? Yes absolutely. You were simply lucky there so happen to be a motivated seller in that list. That's all.

My conversion rate for MY leads are 80%+

Why?

Think about it.

Anyone that fills in the form on my website, has read the website, they know how it works, they know they will get a cash offer, they know the offer will be below market value right? ANYONE that finds this unacceptable, simply will NOT fill in the form.... BUT anyone that DOES fill in the form is absolutely OK with all this. AND they already convinced themselves that they want to sell TO ME, specifically TO ME!!!

OF COURSE my conversion rate is over 80%. But so many of you are just soooo stubborn, so into your own head you just refuse to see this and you just don't get it and you maybe never will.

See the world from my eyes for ONE sec.

I am sitting here getting free highly motivated leads every single day with a really high conversion rate.. and I see people arguing about methods that have a less than 3% success rate.. and they DARE argue and "disagree" with me, when I am the one that provides evidence logic and data backing up all my claims. Its laughable. Its friggen insane.

Dudes.. you GOT to be smarter than this to make it reliably.

I will predict what will happen next.

You will blatantly ignore all the reasoning in my post and come at me with "you're wrong, and present more "opinion" (not fact, not data not evidence) why you are right".

0 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Duane Alexander:

If you have 100k addresses, do not sleep on just recycling your current data. Marketing is all about timing. I know people who recycle the same 40k leads and do 5-10 deals a month.

Yo man,
I am going to try to open your mind a bit. I am trying to help, don't missunderstand.
"Recycle" 40K leads.. which means at least 2 times.
So at least 80K of mailers. This gets them 5 to 10 deals a month. That is a success rate of

0.000125 which is 0.0125% success rate.
Anyone that says "Ohh but my profit was $50K, and I only spent $200" ... you don't understand operating a business. I am not even going to argue or explain.
This system is performing poorlyregardless of the "profits".
That is how you have to evaluate your systems. You can't just look at the output. It is about efficiency too!
0 Reply
Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
4y
@Jerryll Noorden
All of the above just to say that it’s better to have people call you wanting to sell their property than for you to call people hoping they want to sell their property

Nobody disagrees with that. However, the profitability depends on many factors, including conversion rates, marketing expenses, size of operation, goals, market area, and many more variables.

Arguing that only someone who calls you fits the definition of motivated while someone you call does not is just plain silly. If I purchase a property significantly below the value I can otherwise I just don’t care if he’s defined as motivated or not.

Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
Website View Page
5 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Don Konipol:

@Jerryll Noorden
All of the above just to say that it’s better to have people call you wanting to sell their property than for you to call people hoping they want to sell their property

Nobody disagrees with that. However, the profitability depends on many factors, including conversion rates, marketing expenses, size of operation, goals, market area, and many more variables.

Arguing that only someone who calls you fits the definition of motivated while someone you call does not is just plain silly. If I purchase a property significantly below the value I can otherwise I just don’t care if he’s defined as motivated or not.

OK my man. Focus..
Most people are not really good at analytical thinking, I get it. But allow me to enlighten you if you don't mind :)

Imagine a truck load of blue balls. 97% of these blue balls are completely blue, and 3% of these blue balls have a red dot.

Follow me so far? Good.

I am going to pour a wheel borrow full from that truckload. Now for every 100 balls, there are 97 completely blue balls and 3 are blue with a red dot. Right?

Good.

OK so now I am going to pour MORE balls in that wheel borrow. It doesn't matter if you put more balls from the same source in that wheel borrow.. there will ALWAYS be a ratio of 97 blue vs 3 blue with a red dot.

Now translate this to the foreclosure list. Foreclosures do not have the characteristics of being motivated. If they were, it would take you thousands of mailers to snag one deal right? The fact that there are SOOO manmy "no"s before you get 1 "yes" proves that the motivated selelr in a foreclosure lead is rare.

Not because there are MORE people in foreclosure now (more blue balls in the wheelbarrow) does it mean you will get a better ratio of blue vs blue with red dot (a higher ratio of motivated sellers fs just people that want to sell). Not because there are more foreclosures does it mean there is more motivation. You just have more people that are still not motivated.

Now, Clear your mind, and comprehend what I am telling you, as I am going to address each point you made.
I quote you:
"All of the above just to say that it’s better to have people call you wanting to sell their property than for you to call people hoping they want to sell their property"
1). It is BECAUSE I used all that text to dumb it down do you have a chance to "get" what I am trying to tell you, right?
2) Yet despite dumbing it down, you STILL didn't get the point... (so you have no right to complain about "all this text just ot say xxx"

See noone is saying, "it is better for people to call you vs you callingin them". That is obvious. That is not the point. The point again.. is... are "lists" (incliuding the foreclousure lists), sources of motivated sellers? NO! They are not!
If it was true, why can't ANYONE of you prove this?! I have been challenging BP for years. NO ONE coiuld step up and show a single piece of concrete proof. Why is that?

Clear your mind. Empty it. The point I am trying to make is NOT :"it is better for people to find you vs. you finding them". That is NOT the point (and again you are making me spell it out for you. Why don't you just read what is written. Stop assuming things and just simply READ!

Then You said: "Nobody disagrees with that. However, the profitability depends on many factors, including conversion rates, marketing expenses, size of operation, goals, market area, and many more variables."

Not the point. Not the topic. No one argued that point, no one isdisagreeing with this. Where is this coming from?!

You said: "Arguing that only someone who calls you fits the definition of motivated while someone you call does not is just plain silly. If I purchase a property significantly below the value I can otherwise I just don’t care if he’s defined as motivated or not."

Correct. I agree. Except.. NO ONE argued this... (again).

BTW.... purchasing a property below market value IS (my) definition of a motivated seller so that is a completely moot point.

I repeat. The topic here is.. whether or not the foreclosure list is a motivated sellers list.

The argument here is not whether or not it is better for people to call you or not.

Not because someone wants to sell (someone in foreclosure) does it mean they are motivated. Not because it is a bad time now, does it mean that the foreclosure list will have more motivated sellers. Here let me really simplify this for you.

This is WRONG. My data SAYS so. The data I shared.

Focus on this part (please)

Are there more Foreclosures this time?? SURE, Maybe, Who knows, who cares. Not argying that.

But is your foreclosure list going to contain more motivated sellers? No! I am not seeing an increase in my leads of people in foreclosure (that are motivated to sell).

My point is simply this. Not because there are more foreclosures now does it mean that your more people in foreclosures are more motivated. There is no connection. No link to these 2 statements.
Dude I don't know how to make it more clear.. clearer?
Dude, I don't know how to help you. This is the best I can do...

0 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
4y
BTW Don,

I NEVER said.. "ONLY if someone calls you does it means they are motivarted". It is stupid to extract that from all I said honestly. You are reaching.

What I am saying is this. NO LIST can generate motivated selelrs, not the foreclosure list, absentee owners list, tired landlord list, taxlien list. Can there be a few motivated sellers be in that list? Yes. Do those list generate motivated sellers?

Well, lets find out. How many mailers, letters, texts and calls do you make to people on those lists to get one deal? If the success rate is not 80%+, it is not a motivated sellers list right?

If you were truly hitting motivated sellers through those lists why would it take you THOUSANDS of tries to snag one deal?

If you are fishing in a pond and people claim it is a pond where most fish are gold fish. So you set out to fish for goldfish and for every 3000 fish you snag you catch ONE gold fish. Are you going to agree there are mostly goldfish in that pond? No right?

If there truly weremore gold fish than any other fish why do you have to snag 3000 other fish before getting a gold fish?

If these lists truly were hitting motivated sellers, why do you need to send thousands of mailers to snag one deal?

What is the difference?

I honestly don't understand why this simple concept is so hard to grasp for real estate investors. My 15 year old neighbor gets this. Honestly.

0 Reply
Aaron Gordy
Real Estate Broker · Austin, TX · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
4y
@Jerryll Noorden I read your post. Interesting! How many houses have you flipped this year and the previous year? Not sure if you are pitching your SEO capabilities or your success with generating leads for flips.
0 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Aaron Gordy:

@Jerryll Noorden I read your post. Interesting! How many houses have you flipped this year and the previous year? Not sure if you are pitching your SEO capabilities or your success with generating leads for flips.

No, I am not pitching anything. In fact I am trying to educate the masses that you can do SEO yourself. On your own. Remember, not once (I think at least) have I even used the word "SEO" in my replies. So there is no pitching here. (And if I did use SEO, I didn't even know it).

I just can't believe how gullable people are. A guru tells them something and "it must be true". On what planet is the absentee owner list a good list? Ask 100 investors here on BP that have more than one house, if they want to sell one of their houses at a discount. I am willing to bet you will get 100 out of 100 "no"s. Yet STILL all these people still send other investors (absentee owners) mailers thinking it will work.

THAT is what I am pitching. I am pitching intelligence, analysis, common sense.

We don't flip for quantity, nor for money. We flip houses to film our HGTV-like houseflipping episodes. We do this for fun.

We are currently flipping 4 houses. We are investing our money into a few products we are releasing, not house flips
0 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
4y
@Don Konipol what @Jerryll Noorden is trying to hit on here (in 14,000 words or more, lol) is "What is a MOTIVATED seller".
Seriously, just STOP there and meditate on this for a moment, what is a MOTIVATED seller.
A person with an estate is ONLY a person with an Estate. They may be motivated, but pulling estate list does nto indicate motivation level, it's states condition of having an estate. Exact same goes for pre-foreclosure, canceled listings etc., NONE of those are "Motivated Seller" lists, they are other condition lists WITH THE ASSUMPTION that persons in those condition will be motivated sellers.
For those not in the know I am a SUPER Data nerd, because I ran massive marketing systems pre-internet, back when mail and cold-call was king, if done right. I have had 5 figure weekly ad spend's, ran entire tele-marketing floors. I know direct mail, have lifetime spend in the 7 figure arena on such.
The interesting data on direct mail marketing for "Motivated Sellers", when tested through studies found that the % of motivated seller response in these so called "targeted" lists, was nearly identical to the % also caught using blind mass marketing mailers. The difference was in the tenth's of A percent. This study has been run and re-run over and over, finding same data over and over.
So what does that DATA tell us? It says exactly what Jerryll is speaking to, that direct mail marketing does NOT actually do as it is "myth" of doing, it doesn't. People THINK it get's them motivated sellers, it does not. The action of simply blasting something out to enough people just-so-happen through the law of averages, to reach SOME motivated sellers. The data is clear, meaning it's no different then any other mass market medium. You can go put up a stand at any mall entrance, big banner saying you'll buy homes, and get about same response. Door knock and get about same response. Run radio ad's, same response.
It is NOT the mailers, it's just the law of averages.
So back to the entire foundational question, which Jerryll is answering which is "HOW does a person market to MOTIVATED sellers?".
Motivation = MOTIVATION! Motivation means ACTION, and person who is action centric. What is an action centric person doing? THERE TAKING ACTION! The very premise is antigen to PASSIVE mailers. A MOTIVATED person is SEEKING. So, the answer is obvious, BE READILY FOUND!
Ok, let's take it this what. When is the last time you stopped to get fast food and the place was 4 blocks off the road, after taking 3 turns, off behind all the trees, with no real signage? NEVER right. Where are they? READILY visible, right? The position to be FOUND, they don't market for hungry people they position themselves to be readily found by hungry people WHEN THEY ARE HUNGRY.
So, how do we "find" motivated home sellers. We DONT, we work to make sure we are FOUND by motivated sellers, because motivated sellers are taking action, because there motivated, motivation is action, so we make sure we are found, and the process is one most conducive to facilitating there actions.
Once upon a time people used yellow pages to find, and boy-oh-boy did I spend mountains of $ to BE FOUND in the yellow pages, and it worked! Now, Google is the yellowpages. And just like how there was a ton of strategy and design on how to properly be found in the yellowpages (oh yeah, that's was not simple either, I had design TEAMS, as i got 1,000X the leads others who just threw something basic together got) a person has got to have the correct and proper "FOUND" system in place and process, it's not as simple as throwing a Wix site together in an hour watching the $ roll in, no no no.
I get it that mailers lands some deals, so will door knocking, so will walking down the street with a bull-horn, it doesn't make them effective or efficient.
I understand this concept may be hard for some to grasp, fundamental change always has it's dinosaurs marching to extinction with a smile.
By the data, mailers is luck. Online media is strategy.
1 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
4y
Quote from @James Hamling:

@Don Konipol what @Jerryll Noorden is trying to hit on here (in 14,000 words or more, lol) is "What is a MOTIVATED seller".
Seriously, just STOP there and meditate on this for a moment, what is a MOTIVATED seller.
A person with an estate is ONLY a person with an Estate. They may be motivated, but pulling estate list does nto indicate motivation level, it's states condition of having an estate. Exact same goes for pre-foreclosure, canceled listings etc., NONE of those are "Motivated Seller" lists, they are other condition lists WITH THE ASSUMPTION that persons in those condition will be motivated sellers.
For those not in the know I am a SUPER Data nerd, because I ran massive marketing systems pre-internet, back when mail and cold-call was king, if done right. I have had 5 figure weekly ad spend's, ran entire tele-marketing floors. I know direct mail, have lifetime spend in the 7 figure arena on such.
The interesting data on direct mail marketing for "Motivated Sellers", when tested through studies found that the % of motivated seller response in these so called "targeted" lists, was nearly identical to the % also caught using blind mass marketing mailers. The difference was in the tenth's of A percent. This study has been run and re-run over and over, finding same data over and over.
So what does that DATA tell us? It says exactly what Jerryll is speaking to, that direct mail marketing does NOT actually do as it is "myth" of doing, it doesn't. People THINK it get's them motivated sellers, it does not. The action of simply blasting something out to enough people just-so-happen through the law of averages, to reach SOME motivated sellers. The data is clear, meaning it's no different then any other mass market medium. You can go put up a stand at any mall entrance, big banner saying you'll buy homes, and get about same response. Door knock and get about same response. Run radio ad's, same response.
It is NOT the mailers, it's just the law of averages.
So back to the entire foundational question, which Jerryll is answering which is "HOW does a person market to MOTIVATED sellers?".
Motivation = MOTIVATION! Motivation means ACTION, and person who is action centric. What is an action centric person doing? THERE TAKING ACTION! The very premise is antigen to PASSIVE mailers. A MOTIVATED person is SEEKING. So, the answer is obvious, BE READILY FOUND!
Ok, let's take it this what. When is the last time you stopped to get fast food and the place was 4 blocks off the road, after taking 3 turns, off behind all the trees, with no real signage? NEVER right. Where are they? READILY visible, right? The position to be FOUND, they don't market for hungry people they position themselves to be readily found by hungry people WHEN THEY ARE HUNGRY.
So, how do we "find" motivated home sellers. We DONT, we work to make sure we are FOUND by motivated sellers, because motivated sellers are taking action, because there motivated, motivation is action, so we make sure we are found, and the process is one most conducive to facilitating there actions.
Once upon a time people used yellow pages to find, and boy-oh-boy did I spend mountains of $ to BE FOUND in the yellow pages, and it worked! Now, Google is the yellowpages. And just like how there was a ton of strategy and design on how to properly be found in the yellowpages (oh yeah, that's was not simple either, I had design TEAMS, as i got 1,000X the leads others who just threw something basic together got) a person has got to have the correct and proper "FOUND" system in place and process, it's not as simple as throwing a Wix site together in an hour watching the $ roll in, no no no.
I get it that mailers lands some deals, so will door knocking, so will walking down the street with a bull-horn, it doesn't make them effective or efficient.
I understand this concept may be hard for some to grasp, fundamental change always has it's dinosaurs marching to extinction with a smile.
By the data, mailers is luck. Online media is strategy.

Are you married?

If not I bend the knee!

For Pete's SAKE. FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is SO frustrating when something is so simple and obvious.. yet people just don't see it, or get it... and no matrer how many words you use, analogies, examples even proof.... they just don't see it.
Its so so weird to me.
1 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Aaron Gordy:

@Jerryll Noorden I read your post. Interesting! How many houses have you flipped this year and the previous year? Not sure if you are pitching your SEO capabilities or your success with generating leads for flips.

If you don't know who Jerryll is, as "Supreme Overlord" of REI SEO and lead development, that's a you thing Aaron, not a Jerryll legitimacy thing.
Or to be blunt about it, it's just showing your lack of experience/ knowledge in REI industry. You basically just asked the Hulk to prove how strong he is. He's the freakin Hulk, come on man.
And no, not a client of Jerryll's. I am just informed and honest.
1 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
4y
Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Aaron Gordy:

@Jerryll Noorden I read your post. Interesting! How many houses have you flipped this year and the previous year? Not sure if you are pitching your SEO capabilities or your success with generating leads for flips.

If you don't know who Jerryll is, as "Supreme Overlord" of REI SEO and lead development, that's a you thing Aaron, not a Jerryll legitimacy thing.
Or to be blunt about it, it's just showing your lack of experience/ knowledge in REI industry. You basically just asked the Hulk to prove how strong he is. He's the freakin Hulk, come on man.
And no, not a client of Jerryll's. I am just informed and honest.

OK I am on both knees now with a massive diamond ring!
0 Reply
Jeremy Horton
Rental Property Investor · Somewhere over the Rainbow · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
4y
@Michael Zane
How many mailers do you send?
This is the exact route I'm going to go here in the next month.
I love the strategy, yes time consuming, but targeted at the best properties that give you a better chance of success.
I'm gonna have to send you a PM man!
1 Reply
Michael Zane
Real Estate Consultant · Summit, NJ · Member since 2019 · 43 posts · 31 votes
4y
Quote from @Jeremy Horton:

@Michael Zane
How many mailers do you send?
This is the exact route I'm going to go here in the next month.
I love the strategy, yes time consuming, but targeted at the best properties that give you a better chance of success.
I'm gonna have to send you a PM man!

@Jeremy Horton if I'm working alone I can send about 200 mailers per month. This includes building/maintaining the database and manually printing, addressing, and stamping envelopes. It's a lot, and it's an obvious candidate for outsourcing if you're looking to scale up. You just have to have your process nailed down so you can instruct others on how to do it efficiently.
Let me know how it goes. I'm happy to compare notes on process.
0 Reply
Eliott Elias
Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 9k+ posts · 5k+ votes
4y
Cold call realtors
0 Reply

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