Is this an end to Wholesaling?

Is this an end to Wholesaling?

Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Bigger pockets just released an article that goes into Wholesaling and how it can become illegal to Wholesale Real Estate in South Carolina.

Here is the link for reference:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/new-south-carolina-law-wo...

Wholesaling real estate seems like a great strategy but with that strategy, I've seen a lot of fishy characters who promote things that aren't true, lie to sellers directly, lie to Buyers and intentionally misrepresent information. Some of this misrepresented information includes things like after repair values, repair costs, rental comps and more. 

I have even encountered wholesalers who push properties with title issues onto buyers that are not knowledgeable enough to understand that this issue could be a very serious problem. 

A lot of the pitch that wholesalers make to sellers is that they were going to be buying a property with cash, even though they have no cash. So if they don't end up finding a buyer to reassign the contract to, they just lied to the seller and wasted their time. 

Again, this is not to bash on all wholesalers, because I do believe that there are some decent people out there. That being said, the majority of my experience comes from people who are pushy salesman who try to get you to buy something. 

At the end of the day, wholesaling real estate is like getting a net listing for a real estate agent. Except the real estate agent discloses that they will be making the difference upfront and not lying to the seller about buying their property for cash. 

That being said, in many states and jurisdictions net listings are actually illegal. 

My personal opinion was that a lot of this Wholesaling activity couldn't go on much longer. There had to be a breaking point, where unlicensed and unaccredited individuals could be handling real estate transactions. Lots of these individuals didn't have mentors or licensed professionals to help guide them through a transaction process. And on top of that I have seen files were there has been over five wholesalers, making a cut from the sale of a property. 

So before that property went into the buyers hands it went through five other individuals. They were all making money on this transaction, and likely not being transparent with the original owner. 

I remember, speaking directly with wholesalers, who would tell me not to disclose that a profit is being made. 

Look, I respect the hustle. I am all for individuals trying to make their way in the Real Estate sphere. But there has to be a way that is more transparent with individuals. We can't have a large amount of unregulated people, pushing values, and figures onto the end consumer who will be the one that's really suffering at the end of the road. 

To extend an olive branch there are plenty of bad real estate agents that also push things onto their clients, but those individuals work under a broker who carries a fiduciary duty to their client. Here there are no licenses regulations or implemented ethics. 

What are your thoughts? 

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Will GastonPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y

@Alan Asriants there is a ton of nuance to these situations, but I am personally done with wholesalers who require me to tell an owner that I am their "business partner."

Transparency is best for all those acting in good faith.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Will GastonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    @Alan Asriants there is a ton of nuance to these situations, but I am personally done with wholesalers who require me to tell an owner that I am their "business partner."

    Transparency is best for all those acting in good faith.

  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Will Gaston:

    @Alan Asriants there is a ton of nuance to these situations, but I am personally done with wholesalers who require me to tell an owner that I am their "business partner."

    Transparency is best for all those acting in good faith.


     Yes I agree. It doesn't do anyone any good to hide things from parties. 

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.

  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.


     DDidn't even know Philadelphia had a licensing requirement looks like they do:

    https://www.phila.gov/services/permits-violations-licenses/g...

    Doesn't seem like the barrier to entry. Is that low though. Just pay a fee and take it from there

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  • Real Estate Agent · Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 847 posts · 656 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Alan Asriants:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.


     DDidn't even know Philadelphia had a licensing requirement looks like they do:

    https://www.phila.gov/services/permits-violations-licenses/g...

    Doesn't seem like the barrier to entry. Is that low though. Just pay a fee and take it from there


     Yes but net listings are illegal in most if not all states, in theory at least the real estate commission could revoke your license for wholesaling.

  • Member since 2024 · 24 posts · 13 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.

    Seems like they require you to have Insurance. 

    Most of you in the thread:
     
  • Real Estate Agent · Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 847 posts · 656 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chaim Shwartz:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.

    Seems like they require you to have Insurance. 

    Most of you in the thread:
     

     I’m a pretty libertarian guy, in fact in my younger days I was a registered libertarian so I’m not some big government guy, however I think most regulations have an obvious cost to them, wholesaling has zero benefit to society, it’s just skimming money off the top of old people, literally these house would be sold to an investor very quickly with or without wholesalers, we know this because obviously things sell for more on assignment than on the contract the wholesaler has, if the vast majority of wholesale deals went to market they would just be sold for the assignment cost & possibly more, I don’t see any value wholesalers add to the market, they are just leaches.

  • Melanie P.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
    2y

    Many of the deals that wholesalers attract and promote are too small and too messy to garner assistance from a licensed Realtor. Not the best deal for the seller or the Buyer without the wholesaler involved but without the wholesaler seller and buyer never meet.

    I agree wholesalers are in need of training, regulation and marketplace standards.

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.


    I agree. I also wonder with the NAR settlement with NAR also use its leverage in other states.

    Also I would say on deck (prob. a few years still) after this will be Sub2 and seller financing - which many states already have pretty strict licensing laws regarding seller financing on owner occupied properties but they are just not enforced. Just like Harbour Portfolio and Vision Properties were the ones who got hammered 15 years ago - that will rear its ugly head and bring upon more regulations to protect consumers.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Will Gaston:

    @Alan Asriants there is a ton of nuance to these situations, but I am personally done with wholesalers who require me to tell an owner that I am their "business partner."

    Transparency is best for all those acting in good faith.


    Will what about the new law in SC making it illegal.. do you think wholesalers in your area will just ignore this and continue with bizz as usual?  According to Troy Gande closing attorneys will no longer participate in assignment deals or double closes with those they feel are wholesalers ???
    what is your thought there ?
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.


    I agree. I also wonder with the NAR settlement with NAR also use its leverage in other states.

    Also I would say on deck (prob. a few years still) after this will be Sub2 and seller financing - which many states already have pretty strict licensing laws regarding seller financing on owner occupied properties but they are just not enforced. Just like Harbour Portfolio and Vision Properties were the ones who got hammered 15 years ago - that will rear its ugly head and bring upon more regulations to protect consumers.


    From: HLAWATSCH Frances * REA 
    Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 10:00 AM
    To: Jay Hinrichs
    Subject: RE: Per your request unlicensed wholesaler ( wood stock ave PDX)

    Hello Jay,

    Thank you for getting back to me. The advertising copy you attached to your email came out perfectly and will be very helpful. Thanks!

    The Agency is well aware that unlicensed “wholesalers” are rampant in our jurisdiction. Addressing the problems is like trying to put out small individual fires in a forest that is burning. The Agency’s investigations are complaint driven, so we rely heavily on the public, and our licensees to bring these individuals to our attention.

    Thank you again for the information, if I have further questions for you during the investigation I will certainly reach out.

    Best regards,

    Frances Hlawatsch | Financial Investigator

    State of Oregon - Real Estate Agency

    530 Center Street NE, Suite 100, Salem, OR 97301

    The laws already exist in most states just need to enforce them. 

  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jack Seiden:
    Quote from @Alan Asriants:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.


     DDidn't even know Philadelphia had a licensing requirement looks like they do:

    https://www.phila.gov/services/permits-violations-licenses/g...

    Doesn't seem like the barrier to entry. Is that low though. Just pay a fee and take it from there


     Yes but net listings are illegal in most if not all states, in theory at least the real estate commission could revoke your license for wholesaling.


     Yep this was my thinking too. At least a net listing with an agent is business with a licensed person

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  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Will Gaston:

    @Alan Asriants there is a ton of nuance to these situations, but I am personally done with wholesalers who require me to tell an owner that I am their "business partner."

    Transparency is best for all those acting in good faith.


    Will what about the new law in SC making it illegal.. do you think wholesalers in your area will just ignore this and continue with bizz as usual?  According to Troy Gande closing attorneys will no longer participate in assignment deals or double closes with those they feel are wholesalers ???
    what is your thought there ?

     If I was an attorney I woudnt facilitate the closing. 

    Alan Asriants - New Century Real Estate 591 Reviews
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  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.


    I agree. I also wonder with the NAR settlement with NAR also use its leverage in other states.

    Also I would say on deck (prob. a few years still) after this will be Sub2 and seller financing - which many states already have pretty strict licensing laws regarding seller financing on owner occupied properties but they are just not enforced. Just like Harbour Portfolio and Vision Properties were the ones who got hammered 15 years ago - that will rear its ugly head and bring upon more regulations to protect consumers.


    This is definitely a win for NAR.

    To your point on Sub 2 - I think that this is a straight up scam that puts the seller in a 100% risk situation. Actually i'm pretty sure it is illegal and considered mortgage fraud. Had to convince one of my sellers to get out of this scam recently. The guy had crazy ideas for the property (turn it into a boarding rooms situation - which is illegal without proper zoning and licensing - this also would have involved reframing the home to accomodate). So this guy was going to put nothing down, pay the mortgage payments, and when his business failed, put all the liability on seller and bounce.

    He even found out that my seller broke his help and was explaining to me that this is his best case scenario because he only had 6 months to live... 

    This is what I hope goes away. And sorry for the rant, but the BP Podcast hosts shoudl recognize when things liike sub 2 are illegal and wrong, and not promote it. 

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Alan Asriants:
    Quote from @Jack Seiden:
    Quote from @Alan Asriants:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.


     DDidn't even know Philadelphia had a licensing requirement looks like they do:

    https://www.phila.gov/services/permits-violations-licenses/g...

    Doesn't seem like the barrier to entry. Is that low though. Just pay a fee and take it from there


     Yes but net listings are illegal in most if not all states, in theory at least the real estate commission could revoke your license for wholesaling.


     Yep this was my thinking too. At least a net listing with an agent is business with a licensed person


    I think US Brokers sometimes get lost in the fact that commissions are and have always been negotiable.  No need for net listing if a deal is a tough one you just charge what you want to make and if the seller does not agree you move on.. When i started in the mid 70s I only sold land and land commish in those days was 10%  .. most of the deals I took on were ones that other agents simply could not sell as they were very rural props in N. CA way back in the hills 20 30 miles on dirt roads most realtors could not even find the parcels :) I charged anywhere from 15 to 30% commish on those and got it.. it was a waste of time to put them in / on MLS  I doubled ended very one of them for a good 5 to 7 years.  

    then for builder bail outs in Oregon same thing my fee was generally double standard rates and I double ended all of those.  For instance I had a builder who was really up against it on 20 duplexs that were sitting.. these were 200k each at the time.. I charged 15% And I spent the money to run a fly buy program with CA investors and sold them all in one weekend at a big event that cost me 50k to put on up front :) so there is more to selling real estate than conformity to norms.
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Alan Asriants:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.


    I agree. I also wonder with the NAR settlement with NAR also use its leverage in other states.

    Also I would say on deck (prob. a few years still) after this will be Sub2 and seller financing - which many states already have pretty strict licensing laws regarding seller financing on owner occupied properties but they are just not enforced. Just like Harbour Portfolio and Vision Properties were the ones who got hammered 15 years ago - that will rear its ugly head and bring upon more regulations to protect consumers.


    This is definitely a win for NAR.

    To your point on Sub 2 - I think that this is a straight up scam that puts the seller in a 100% risk situation. Actually i'm pretty sure it is illegal and considered mortgage fraud. Had to convince one of my sellers to get out of this scam recently. The guy had crazy ideas for the property (turn it into a boarding rooms situation - which is illegal without proper zoning and licensing - this also would have involved reframing the home to accomodate). So this guy was going to put nothing down, pay the mortgage payments, and when his business failed, put all the liability on seller and bounce.

    He even found out that my seller broke his help and was explaining to me that this is his best case scenario because he only had 6 months to live... 

    This is what I hope goes away. And sorry for the rant, but the BP Podcast hosts shoudl recognize when things liike sub 2 are illegal and wrong, and not promote it. 


    there are long threads on sub 2 as we know I have been preaching since day one the issue with these is risk to seller as you point out.. However as a PML since late 80s I can tell you every mortgage/deed of trust is basically the same.. in the event of alienation of title that is an event of default and it gives the lender the right to accelerate the note .  But not the obligation to do so.. So its perfectly legal.. But as you point out teaching this to the masses will bring in all the No cattle all Hat folks and there is going to be a lot of sellers get totally screwed by these folks that are not capitalized to do these deals or they are just financial sociopaths and only think about themselves and if the deal does not work well too bad..
  • Will GastonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Will Gaston:

    @Alan Asriants there is a ton of nuance to these situations, but I am personally done with wholesalers who require me to tell an owner that I am their "business partner."

    Transparency is best for all those acting in good faith.


    Will what about the new law in SC making it illegal.. do you think wholesalers in your area will just ignore this and continue with bizz as usual?  According to Troy Gande closing attorneys will no longer participate in assignment deals or double closes with those they feel are wholesalers ???
    what is your thought there ?

    Jay, I haven't done a deal with a wholesaler in a long time (maybe 7-8 years). Just not a space I enjoy working in.

    There are some good ones in Columbia, but it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think the better ones will find a way to close on the property - which I think is good for them and the seller.

    Just my .02 but I'd prefer just to source deals with broker relationships. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Will Gaston:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Will Gaston:

    @Alan Asriants there is a ton of nuance to these situations, but I am personally done with wholesalers who require me to tell an owner that I am their "business partner."

    Transparency is best for all those acting in good faith.


    Will what about the new law in SC making it illegal.. do you think wholesalers in your area will just ignore this and continue with bizz as usual?  According to Troy Gande closing attorneys will no longer participate in assignment deals or double closes with those they feel are wholesalers ???
    what is your thought there ?

    Jay, I haven't done a deal with a wholesaler in a long time (maybe 7-8 years). Just not a space I enjoy working in.

    There are some good ones in Columbia, but it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think the better ones will find a way to close on the property - which I think is good for them and the seller.

    Just my .02 but I'd prefer just to source deals with broker relationships. 


    Its one of the things I do.. as a capital partner we help those folks control the inventory by closing on it.. I had a client in MS that got stung oh 10 years or so ago.. MS RE nailed him for selling properties he did not own .. putting them on his website etc.. So I stepped in we formed a JV and I bought them all so that he/we could resell.. cost him some money as of course I am not running a charity.. but it kept him in business once he got on the DRE radar. :) I suspect in SC my type of services will now become common place.
  • Melanie P.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
    2y

    @Jay Hinrichs You make an excellent point about simply charging a commission that reflects the work required by the deal. It's a good area for former wholesalers or brokers in certain markets to carve a niche in. "We Sell Ugly Houses." The last deal we received from a wholesaler that wholesaler made the equivalent of a 25% commission by contracting the property 60% under market and assigning the deal to us 40% under market. WHolesaler would have done better selling for 25% commission and listing 5-10% below market value. 

    The South Carolina law does not seem to put an end to wholesaling. The text says: 4) "Wholesaling" means having a contractual interest in purchasing residential real estate from a property owner, then marketing the property for sale to a different buyer prior to taking legal ownership of the property. Advertising or marketing real estate owned by another individual or entity with the expectation of compensation falls under the definition of "broker" and requires licensure. "Wholesaling" does not refer to the assigning or offering to assign a contractual right to purchase residential real estate.

    Confusing. So is the problem the marketing of the property while owned by another? But you could technically market just your contractual interest? The wholesaler can certainly close on the property and list it FSBO the very same day. It will be interesting to see if the Commission imposes these light but annoying administrative penalties fairly.

  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Alan Asriants:
    Quote from @Jack Seiden:
    Quote from @Alan Asriants:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.


     DDidn't even know Philadelphia had a licensing requirement looks like they do:

    https://www.phila.gov/services/permits-violations-licenses/g...

    Doesn't seem like the barrier to entry. Is that low though. Just pay a fee and take it from there


     Yes but net listings are illegal in most if not all states, in theory at least the real estate commission could revoke your license for wholesaling.


     Yep this was my thinking too. At least a net listing with an agent is business with a licensed person


    I think US Brokers sometimes get lost in the fact that commissions are and have always been negotiable.  No need for net listing if a deal is a tough one you just charge what you want to make and if the seller does not agree you move on.. When i started in the mid 70s I only sold land and land commish in those days was 10%  .. most of the deals I took on were ones that other agents simply could not sell as they were very rural props in N. CA way back in the hills 20 30 miles on dirt roads most realtors could not even find the parcels :) I charged anywhere from 15 to 30% commish on those and got it.. it was a waste of time to put them in / on MLS  I doubled ended very one of them for a good 5 to 7 years.  

    then for builder bail outs in Oregon same thing my fee was generally double standard rates and I double ended all of those.  For instance I had a builder who was really up against it on 20 duplexs that were sitting.. these were 200k each at the time.. I charged 15% And I spent the money to run a fly buy program with CA investors and sold them all in one weekend at a big event that cost me 50k to put on up front :) so there is more to selling real estate than conformity to norms.

    Yep, this is exactly what I explain to sellers when they ask me about the NAR agreement. I tell them that commissions have always been negotiable. If we work out a deal, great, if not we move on.

    If you don't want to pay buyers agent commissions then you are not being competitive in the marketplace . 

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  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Melanie P.:

    @Jay Hinrichs You make an excellent point about simply charging a commission that reflects the work required by the deal. It's a good area for former wholesalers or brokers in certain markets to carve a niche in. "We Sell Ugly Houses." The last deal we received from a wholesaler that wholesaler made the equivalent of a 25% commission by contracting the property 60% under market and assigning the deal to us 40% under market. WHolesaler would have done better selling for 25% commission and listing 5-10% below market value. 

    The South Carolina law does not seem to put an end to wholesaling. The text says: 4) "Wholesaling" means having a contractual interest in purchasing residential real estate from a property owner, then marketing the property for sale to a different buyer prior to taking legal ownership of the property. Advertising or marketing real estate owned by another individual or entity with the expectation of compensation falls under the definition of "broker" and requires licensure. "Wholesaling" does not refer to the assigning or offering to assign a contractual right to purchase residential real estate.

    Confusing. So is the problem the marketing of the property while owned by another? But you could technically market just your contractual interest? The wholesaler can certainly close on the property and list it FSBO the very same day. It will be interesting to see if the Commission imposes these light but annoying administrative penalties fairly.


     If I was the wholesaler, I would've just bought the property for that value. Of course as agents we have to disclose that we have market knowledge and seller understands that they can be selling under market value - something wholesalers do not have - this is where the ambiguity lies. Because as an agent you are always liable, but as a wholesaler you don't have to disclose anything

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  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Will Gaston:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Will Gaston:

    @Alan Asriants there is a ton of nuance to these situations, but I am personally done with wholesalers who require me to tell an owner that I am their "business partner."

    Transparency is best for all those acting in good faith.


    Will what about the new law in SC making it illegal.. do you think wholesalers in your area will just ignore this and continue with bizz as usual?  According to Troy Gande closing attorneys will no longer participate in assignment deals or double closes with those they feel are wholesalers ???
    what is your thought there ?

    Jay, I haven't done a deal with a wholesaler in a long time (maybe 7-8 years). Just not a space I enjoy working in.

    There are some good ones in Columbia, but it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think the better ones will find a way to close on the property - which I think is good for them and the seller.

    Just my .02 but I'd prefer just to source deals with broker relationships. 


     To your point I see the people that are established investors in the business really do avoid working with wholesalers as their pitch doesn't go past them. Typically in my area, those who work with wholesalers are newer investors looking for a "deal" or those that operate in C-D class areas. 

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  • Member since 2024 · 24 posts · 13 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jack Seiden:
    Quote from @Chaim Shwartz:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    South Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Philadelphia have all recently passed wholesaling bills. Many more states have them in the works too....and in some of those states, further legislation is in the works to fill in some of the gaps in the legislation they just passed.

    So yes, it does seem like the tide is turning on this practice.

    Seems like they require you to have Insurance. 

    Most of you in the thread:
     

     I’m a pretty libertarian guy, in fact in my younger days I was a registered libertarian so I’m not some big government guy, however I think most regulations have an obvious cost to them, wholesaling has zero benefit to society, it’s just skimming money off the top of old people, literally these house would be sold to an investor very quickly with or without wholesalers, we know this because obviously things sell for more on assignment than on the contract the wholesaler has, if the vast majority of wholesale deals went to market they would just be sold for the assignment cost & possibly more, I don’t see any value wholesalers add to the market, they are just leaches.


     May be true for many cases, but there are cases where the wholesaler actually helps the homeowner. 

  • Melanie P.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Alan Asriants:
    Quote from @Melanie P.:

    @Jay Hinrichs You make an excellent point about simply charging a commission that reflects the work required by the deal. It's a good area for former wholesalers or brokers in certain markets to carve a niche in. "We Sell Ugly Houses." The last deal we received from a wholesaler that wholesaler made the equivalent of a 25% commission by contracting the property 60% under market and assigning the deal to us 40% under market. WHolesaler would have done better selling for 25% commission and listing 5-10% below market value. 

    The South Carolina law does not seem to put an end to wholesaling. The text says: 4) "Wholesaling" means having a contractual interest in purchasing residential real estate from a property owner, then marketing the property for sale to a different buyer prior to taking legal ownership of the property. Advertising or marketing real estate owned by another individual or entity with the expectation of compensation falls under the definition of "broker" and requires licensure. "Wholesaling" does not refer to the assigning or offering to assign a contractual right to purchase residential real estate.

    Confusing. So is the problem the marketing of the property while owned by another? But you could technically market just your contractual interest? The wholesaler can certainly close on the property and list it FSBO the very same day. It will be interesting to see if the Commission imposes these light but annoying administrative penalties fairly.


     If I was the wholesaler, I would've just bought the property for that value. Of course as agents we have to disclose that we have market knowledge and seller understands that they can be selling under market value - something wholesalers do not have - this is where the ambiguity lies. Because as an agent you are always liable, but as a wholesaler you don't have to disclose anything


     Most wholesalers are wholesaling because they have no capital. Occasionally one does a good enough job that the wholesaler makes a nice payday (for him) and you get a good deal. The vast majority of wholesalers are totally inept, don't put the work in and can't get their deals to a closing table,

  • Member since 2018 · 433 posts · 208 votes
    2y

    I personally hope it is the end of wholesaling. 🤷🏼‍♂️

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