Driving For Dollars is a Lot of Work
Anthony GaydenPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votesDriving For Dollars is a Lot of Work
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votesAnthony the world is about to change..... I was at the Oakland summit J Martin event.. there are a few driving for dollars apps out there right now you can get... BUT I was talking to Sean O'toole who owns Property Radar.
he is about to go nationwide ( previously only west coast) you should pop on their and see it.. its hands down the best on line resource for real estate investors ... it made me 300k on one deal last year... investors have bought over 100 billion dollars using his service with over 10 billion in profits.
why is it a game changer.
you will now be able to drive for dollars using his app.. hit one button on your app.. the address will go to your data base and your direct mail piece will automatically be created.. no more creating spread sheets and then sending them to a direct mail company... I predict it will change the industry... this is the real deal from a for real company . With an owner who has been a flipper and has over 15 engineers working on this ...
25 Replies
- Real Estate Investor · Sunny Isles Beach, FL · Member since 2013 · 788 posts · 333 votes8y
@Anthony Gayden "Driving for dollars" - I would not personally use for direct-mail. I can see the logic in it - but building the list is so hard. Direct-mail is about covering a large number of leads for as low cost as possible. For all you know, there could be a typos on the list of 25 names, they could be listed on the MLS.
Try this. Sign-up for BeenVerified. Find the owners phone numbers and e-mail. Prepare a detailed script about the property and why you are calling. It should not feel like a random cold call like you are a call service. "My name is Anthony Gayden, I am a real estate investor in this area, and am extremely interested in purchasing XYZ property." Reach out directly. One hybrid approach (probably how I would work it), is it send 1 letter and then follow-up with the call. This can bridge the cap as a conversation starter as well as lay the groundwork.
- Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Lucas Machado:
@Anthony Gayden "Driving for dollars" - I would not personally use for direct-mail. I can see the logic in it - but building the list is so hard. Direct-mail is about covering a large number of leads for as low cost as possible. For all you know, there could be a typos on the list of 25 names, they could be listed on the MLS.
Try this. Sign-up for BeenVerified. Find the owners phone numbers and e-mail. Prepare a detailed script about the property and why you are calling. It should not feel like a random cold call like you are a call service. "My name is Anthony Gayden, I am a real estate investor in this area, and am extremely interested in purchasing XYZ property." Reach out directly. One hybrid approach (probably how I would work it), is it send 1 letter and then follow-up with the call. This can bridge the cap as a conversation starter as well as lay the groundwork.
Thanks for the tips. I certainly do want to start cold calling for leads in the near future. I already signed up for Google Voice for just that reason.
I am trying to target specific neighborhoods and housing types within those neighborhoods, so I thought driving around collecting addresses would help me weed out those properties that I have no interest in pursuing.
My direct mail campaign specifically went out to absentee landlords of homes valued less than $150,000 in specific zip codes in Omaha. While that is great, there will likely be properties there that I will not be interested in buying. That is cool though since I can attempt to wholesale any deals like that.
This list is more targeted because they are properties that I want to personally buy for part of my portfolio.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Anthony the world is about to change..... I was at the Oakland summit J Martin event.. there are a few driving for dollars apps out there right now you can get... BUT I was talking to Sean O'toole who owns Property Radar.
he is about to go nationwide ( previously only west coast) you should pop on their and see it.. its hands down the best on line resource for real estate investors ... it made me 300k on one deal last year... investors have bought over 100 billion dollars using his service with over 10 billion in profits.
why is it a game changer.
you will now be able to drive for dollars using his app.. hit one button on your app.. the address will go to your data base and your direct mail piece will automatically be created.. no more creating spread sheets and then sending them to a direct mail company... I predict it will change the industry... this is the real deal from a for real company . With an owner who has been a flipper and has over 15 engineers working on this ...
- Real Estate Agent · watertown, NY · Member since 2016 · 29 posts · 16 votes8y
According to the website this app is only useful in AZ, CA, NV, OR, and WA. Are there any other similar app for Texas, SC, or FL?
- Realtor · Camarillo, CA · Member since 2014 · 162 posts · 102 votes8yI am in California and use Property Radar. It's a very good investment!
- Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2015 · 50 posts · 11 votes8y
@Anthony Gayden what you figured out about driving for dollars taking a good amount of time to find the properties, find the mailing address, and then order the mail is why it's been effective for a low cost/newer investor to start. It's the same reason newer investors often time use bandit signs (low cost barrier to entry).
All that being said if your driving neighborhoods you are seeing houses that look like they need maintainance or FSBO before most of the guy/gals doing direct mail get to them. There are apps and services coming out that will allow you to input an address and it will send a post card to the owners address on file with the tax assessor.
These newer services often charge upwards of a $1 per postcard for the time savings you have to figure out if it's worth your time saved or if you have the time currently, but not the funds you can mail post cards very cheap with places like Yellow Letters Hq.
The new wave/fade is to skip trace the owners and simply cold call them. This takes a certain person willing to hear no a lot to get that one yes and not afraid of getting a few jerks on the phone.
- Investor · Stockton , CA · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 8 votes8y
I personally don't feel that driving for dollars is a waste of time. I feel it is the best way to get off market deals before your competition. Everyone is going to listsource, listability, etc to get lists. Those people are getting the same mail from tons of people. Now to be clear, I'm not saying that can't happen with driving for dollars because it can. It's just an extra step you save....not to mention money.
Driving for dollars give you an advantage because you can do a servey of the properties as you discover them, you could get additional info from talking with neighbors etc. That's something you can't do pulling a random list. From what you described, it sounds tedious. It doesn't have to be. As someone mentioned before, there are many new tools that will make the whole driving for dollars experience much easier. I'm not sure about other apps, or even what the poster above me was talking about in regards to property radar, but I have to admit....sounds promising. I use an app called dealmachine(one word). It's on the play store. It works awesome. Very simple and takes away all the guess work, does the mailouts, gives you all info on the property and owner info. Very cool, and makes everything a snap. I had the pleasure of meeting David( the creator of the app) at the 2017 RE summit in Oakland. He was a very humble guy and an investor himself. He wanted to create something that was user friendly, and would aid tremendously in our real estate businesses. I advise you to check it out. I think you will like it!
- Investor · Stockton , CA · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 8 votes8y
Originally posted by @Hau N.:
I just watch a you tube video by the owner of property radar. it's pretty powerful app. it's funny how his son said it's a stalking app.What's the name of the app?
- Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes8y
Thanks everyone for the replies. I am going to continue driving for dollars, but my primary focus will be lists that I purchase.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Enrique Reyes:
According to the website this app is only useful in AZ, CA, NV, OR, and WA. Are there any other similar app for Texas, SC, or FL?
they are going nationwide very soon.. for now pop on the site and check it out.. be the first on your block to subscribe when it goes nationwide.. there is nothing like it. it will even the playing field for the average investor who does not have tons of money to start
- CA · Member since 2017 · 153 posts · 74 votes8y
@Will Mitchell Property Radar. Used to be Foreclosure Radar.
- Elk Grove, CA · Member since 2014 · 6 posts · 4 votes8y
Originally posted by @Anthony Gayden:
Thanks everyone for the replies. I am going to continue driving for dollars, but my primary focus will be lists that I purchase.
Stay focused on the prize and keep grinding!
- Member since 2017 · 24 posts · 4 votes8y
@Anthony Gayden I would suggest you try getting data from RealQuest. You can put in a zip code or county and pull up to date data and that will save you time. You can choose if you want to search 25 miles outside of zip code or etc.
- Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 13 votes8y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Anthony the world is about to change..... I was at the Oakland summit J Martin event.. there are a few driving for dollars apps out there right now you can get... BUT I was talking to Sean O'toole who owns Property Radar.
he is about to go nationwide ( previously only west coast) you should pop on their and see it.. its hands down the best on line resource for real estate investors ... it made me 300k on one deal last year... investors have bought over 100 billion dollars using his service with over 10 billion in profits.
why is it a game changer.
you will now be able to drive for dollars using his app.. hit one button on your app.. the address will go to your data base and your direct mail piece will automatically be created.. no more creating spread sheets and then sending them to a direct mail company... I predict it will change the industry... this is the real deal from a for real company . With an owner who has been a flipper and has over 15 engineers working on this ...
When is Property Radar going nationwide?
- Investor · Oskaloosa, IA · Member since 2014 · 126 posts · 65 votes8yThis may sound crazy, I ride my bicycle. I live in a Smaller town, and I use my phone camera and Google Keep. Works great! Very convenient, burns calories, saves gas, and just dang fun! I get a few looks with bike helmet, bright bike shirt, and taking pic's. Just be careful taking pic's with others around. Police will ask what you are doing!!!! Safe riding🤑🚴
- Rental Property Investor · Aurora, IL · Member since 2017 · 19 posts · 6 votes8y
HI Guys,
I would just like to add that with todays technology, i would NEVER drive for dollars. I have a system that has lists of absentee owners, bankruptcies, free & clear owners with no mortgage, pre-foreclosures, cash buyers, private lenders, probates, tax liens, upside and many many more. I enter in which of those categories I am looking for. Then I enter the county and town name and I get listings of 100s of homes and buildings with owner information! Priceless ! Stop driving for dollars. SYSTEMS!
- Property Manager · 23 states · Member since 2014 · 11 posts · 10 votes8y
@Ed S. Not crazy at all! My wife and I did over 300+ miles of "Biking for Dollars" this summer. I got a Rockform iPhone stem mount which helps. Use a GoPro as well with GPS to review time-lapse photos later. Faking a flat tire can get someone to come out of their home and say hi and offer assistance ;-)
@Gail Govednik No doubt driving/biking for dollars is not for everyone, and that's fine. Different strategies for different people. And I certainly agree that it's foolish not to leverage the data and systems to research and target properties, streets, and neighborhoods...But!
Data alone can fail to inform you of many aspects of the properties and neighborhoods that can only be observed or discovered by visitation.
For example, it's fairly common to discover upon visitation that the "owner-occupied" property is actually a rental. The motel is now MFR. The public record was never updated. Or the SFR with NO pool and yet as I peer over the fence...yup! There's a pool. Observing a tricycle and toys on the front lawn tells me there are young kids present. A bumper sticker or political yard sign may give me an approach to make a connection when I knock the door or talk to the neighbor.
Other insights are only gained by speaking with residents and neighbors.
"Nancy across the street fell and broke her hip about a month ago. She's 93. Doubt she'll be returning. I've seen her son, who owns the home, over here a lot starting to fix things up. Looks like he may be getting ready to sell to afford to put his mom in a senior care center."
Once I discovered from a friendly corner conversation that the neighborhood was built during the post-WWII metal shortage and all the sewer pipes were made from clay. That I'd better research whether a specific property had updated to PVC. Otherwise, there was almost certainly going to be a hidden cost of $20k within 2-5 years to update to PVC. He was pretty vocal about it because no one told him and he got nailed. Pretty much every sewer pipe in the neighborhood was starting to fail with root infestations and the City was only updating the main.
Relying 100% on public record data alone can increase your risk for missing deals or making a bad one. You don't know what you don't know, and failing to observe and validate creates opportunities for those willing to jump on their bike, get in their car, and go knock on doors.
Again, I agree, you'd be remiss to not leverage public data and the systems that assist investors to target their next best deal. And that alone is awesome for many. But relying on data only creates myopia in the market and presents an opportunity for those willing to pound the pavement and knock on some doors.
- Goshen, AR · Member since 2017 · 267 posts · 159 votes8y
Good info, can't wait until we can start using it in Arkansas! @Henry Washington
- Investor · Stockton , CA · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 8 votes8y
I would like to speak with you about how to implement this using property radar. How can we connect? That would be very much appreciated.
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Hi @Anthony Gayden,
We are wholesalers of many types of properties, and one of the reasons it is so great is because we can do it from literally anywhere, we don't have to be where we are looking to buy. It looks like you've discovered something many people have -0 driving for dollars just doesn't work as well as other options.
We are direct mail acquisition machines all without leaving our office (or home, or wherever we happen to be that day - haha). We pull assessor data from a direct link of the type of properties in the areas we want and send ALL the property owners an offer. (Not onlu out of state or tax delinquent.)
We scrub the list to remove things like: properties with a mortgage, duplicates, etc. and spend a tremendous amount of time on pricing, because although these offers may be a lot less than retail, they are not out of the question. We explain in our offer letter to sellers that we are serious investors, we are not agents/brokers, we pay cash, and are prepared to close in as soon as x number days. Then we wait for the motivated sellers to call us - and believe me they do. It works amazingly well, and it is how we get there first.
Knocking on doors (aka "driving for dollars") is an outdated way of doing this. We now have DATA and computers and direct mail making our lives easier and our time more lucrative.
Please feel free to reach out if you have any questions!
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Anthony Gayden my first custom data base was when I was in the timber business in the northwest.
My bizz partner would drive for dollars / Timber stands.. he would literally get up at sun up and drive to sun down 5 days a week... he would spy a timber stand and drive up drive ways trying to figure out who owned it.
when I came on the scene I was ( Steve this is wholly in efficient) take me to a court house and let me see how they do mapping in Oregon.. to my great JOY.. turned out at the front counter you had the big section maps AND you had the same maps with aerial photog.. most states don't have aerial photo's at the counter and its a big deal to get them to show them to you.
Well i perused through them saw that I could easily over lay the plat maps and determine once I learned how to judge tree species with age and size.. wha la there is was for the taking.. this was 1992 lap tops had just come out.. so I bough one of those. ( could not run it ) so I hired a young guy who knew how to run it. and sent him into every court house from the CA Oregon boarder ( West sides of cascades to the ocean) all the way up to Olympia WA.. and we created a customized data base of every one who owned more than 10 acres of timber that was visible on the aerials. We weeded out the federal and state government and big timber concerns.. so basically all the private owners.. so from there he would type in the owners name and address.
this took about a year and 50k or so paying for his wages and hotel rooms.
Then once that data was collected I had my secretary run each lead through the reverse directory or phone book to get phone numbers.. we collect 95% of the leads phone number ( remember this when EVERYONE had land lines) also rural areas always have landlines.
Once we had that we had a customized data base.. so now instead of Steve driving aimlessly through the woods every day.. I had Tele marketers come in 2 nights a week with my script and we set appointments for him . no more meandering out in the country going to a set appointment. If we got the lead on the phone and they said it was logged then it was taken out of the system as the regrowth cycle is 75 years.
We were the number one private provider of logs in the Willamette valley for years.. this business was hands down the best I ever did..
We also killed our competition which is very akin to how wholesalers work today.. our competition if we had any were Gypo loggers... think NO money wholesalers.. Gypo's had to log and then get paid from the Mill.
I said BS to that we are going to pay for the timber up front.. and sell against those that can't close on the spot... not only did we show them the risk of dealing with someone with no money up front .. we got better deals on the timber because our sellers could sleep at night knowing they got paid before we ever fell a tree.
Same thing I think plays to buying real estate.. those with cash that actually close .. can and SHOULD be selling against those who can only assign deals.. you put me in front of someone who is considering someone who can't close and I will walk away with that deal every time..
- Englewood, NJ · Member since 2013 · 4 posts · 1 vote8y
If you're going to drive for dollars try to get as many addresses you can get in a day. Aim for 100+ addresses. If you can build out your database on a weekly basis maybe hire a virtual assistant to do all the research for you and you can cold call knock on doors instead of doing everything yourself
- Rental Property Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2017 · 38 posts · 10 votes6y
Originally posted by @Anthony Gayden:
Good morning BiggerPockets,
Last week I started my first direct mail campaign. I bought a list from ListSource and sent out postcards to a few hundred absentee landlords in the area where I want to invest. The postcards will start to go out next week.
Rather than sit on my butt for the next few weeks waiting for responses, I decided to be proactive and go driving for dollars to build my own custom mailing list.
Well it didn't take long to realize that this was probably the slowest and most tedious way to build a mailing list. I spent 2 hours driving around yesterday and getting addresses. When I got home I had to look up each address on the county assessors website and manually type it into my Excel database. That took an additional 4 hours.
So what did 6 hours of work get me? A mailing list with 25 names. I honestly can't even imagine trying to get hundreds of names for a good direct mail campaign.
What was the result of your first direct mail campaign?
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