Real Estate Entrepreneur · Winston-Salem, NC · Member since 2008 · 101 posts · 40 votes
Hi all,
I've been compiling my results from my postcard mailings to Absentee Owners over the past few years. Here's what I've been getting:
Average Call-In Rate: 10.67%
Average Voicemail Rate: 4.40%
My Call-In Rate is the total number of calls I receive (whether they leave a message after listening to my 2-minute pre-recorded message or not) divided by the total number of postcards I send.
My Voicemail Rate is the total number of voicemails I receive after they call in and listen to a 2-3 minute pre-recorded message that tells them a little more about how we buy houses, divided by the total number of postcards I send.
I always have the phone calls directed to this pre-screening voicemail greeting. I don't want to take the calls directly and immediately.
I don't include any website or company name on the postcard, just my name and the phone number for them to call the pre-recorded message. I only use a local phone number.
My list criteria: Last Market Sale Date 10 years ago or more, house not older than 1978 (lead paint year), 3+ BR, 2+ BA, 1000sf+, Absentee Owned in-state and out-of-state, exclude trustees and corporations.
If you're on the fence about direct mail in general, or what direct mail to do, and to what list, I've had great success with this combo of postcards and Absentee Owners. I would encourage you to give it a shot.
Thanks for sharing. Have you gotten any deals from these mailings? Response rates are great but in the end are only as good as the deal/profit rates.
I'm curious why so many investors avoid trust owned properties in their list criteria. I've bought from plenty of trusts (and several corps for that matter). While arranging and setting up a trust shows some rudimentary estate planning, it certainly doesn't eliminate anyone from being or becoming a motivated seller. In some areas, the bulk of properties that would end up on an "inherited" list will be properties that transfer the property from the trust to a beneficiary/heir named in the trust. Trusts are becoming a customary holding entity for primary residences and for seniors. Just something to think about.
I know it's hard to tell through the written word, but I'm being sincere here when I ask all these questions. I really would like your input on how to do this right.
Hi Blair,
Josh pretty much nailed it above. The key is to disclose. Your first post in this thread caught my attention because the numbers didn't look right to me. As I was following along the thread, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. You were either (in my mind) a newbie trying to sound professional, or a schill for some product or service.
I went to look at your profile, and it was set to private. I watched the thread progress and the answers you were giving always seemed....just short of helpful. I had the sense that something was missing. Then Karen asked about your connection to dealbot, and it clicked. That's why I responded as I did. As Josh said, a thread that is a lead in to an Ad is just as bad as the Ad. What Josh may or may not know is that a 10% response rate for Postcards is a startling headline for anyone that does direct mail marketing. (thus the lead in..."how do I get results like that Blair")
Okay? Still with me? I believe you that you're sincere in wanting to learn how to use the site.
Disclose....you present yourself as a wholesaler in this thread, not a direct mail marketer (one who does this as a service). With the disclosure, people can more properly evaluate your advice (is he trying to sell, or does this sound legit?) Without it, people feel duped when the truth is revealed (all this time I thought he was trying to help, but he really just wanted to sell me).
Disclose...fill out your profile fully and let people see it. Go to the New members section and introduce yourself (fully). You mention Michael Quarles...what you may or may not know is that Michael is something of a fixture around here...that is to say he has great credibility because he posts about everything all the time...used to anyway. But he also got censured again and again for being too direct about selling his products outside the marketplace forum.
Shoot Blair, I've done it too, been too forward and had a post removed. But what I've learned is that I don't really have to be forward. And the threads I start have nothing at all to do with services that I offer. Just engage the community, let people get to know you, and take the time to build your credibility. This is an incredible sight full of very savvy amazing people. If you are here merely to move product, you'll never realize the full potential of BiggerPockets
You're certainly ok talking about things you know about, which is what you appear to be doing in this thread. I'm not certain what happened here, but I'm not seeing any problems in the thread unless I missed it.
The thing is not to post a thread that's just designed to get people to ask: how can I get that? Where do I buy it? etc. Essentially -- a thread that is a lead in to an ad needs to be placed in the Marketplace like any other ad. I'm guessing that is what the others think you've done here.
Josh, Thanks so much for chiming in. I appreciate the info and I can understand now what the issue was. If I was reading a thread that was one big long lead-in to an ad, I might be a little perturbed myself.
To all: I'm sorry I did not disclose who I am more fully. Please know that my intent was not to simply develop a lead-in to an ad. Honestly, I didn't think much past the first post that started the thread. All I wanted to do was to give people information that it seemed they were interested in reading about. And if at the same time I can inspire other direct mail marketers to greater success simply by letting them know that 10% response rates are POSSIBLE, then I hope I've added some value. It's the old saying: "whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right."
I have set my profile to public now (at least I think I have). I did not know that that was an issue. I'm not normally a fan of putting all my info out there in public view on a website that I do not control, but I see the little checkbox now that says you can have google not index your profile.
I'm now trying to figure out how to make my signature look like Josh's and Jerry's with all my info. Not sure if I'm getting it right yet. Working on it!
I've now introduced myself in the proper forum:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/55-new-member-introductions/topics/80668-wholesaler-direct-mail-marketer-in-atlanta-ga-area
So, to get this thread back to something fruitful...
Originally posted by Jerry Puckett:
Your first post in this thread caught my attention because the numbers didn't look right to me. As I was following along the thread, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop...What Josh may or may not know is that a 10% response rate for Postcards is a startling headline for anyone that does direct mail marketing.
I still get the impression from you, Jerry, that you don't believe me when I mention the response rates. I don't know what to do to make it more believable. Here are individual response rates from mailings I've done:
13.67%
7.45%
11.98%
8.62%
10.00%
9.30%
14.50%
7.63%
Average for those mailings is 10.39% (the average has changed slightly since my first post on this thread). This is number of phone calls divided by number of postcards sent. But the response rate doesn't mean much if it doesn't turn into deals of course.
One thing I was thinking about earlier, it's not so much the medium of direct mail you choose, but rather the message. In other words, whether it's a yellow letter or a postcard or a glossy full color postcard, I think the message has more impact than the medium.
Originally posted by Jerry Puckett:
You present yourself as a wholesaler in this thread, not a direct mail marketer…
It's an interesting question, what is the difference between a wholesaler and a direct mail marketer? When I was strictly wholesaling, all I actually did was direct mail marketing. My investors did everything else and I'd get paid on the back end.
I felt like that's what I was - a direct mail marketer, not a wholesaler. Now I don't wait to get paid on the back end so I guess technically it's not wholesaling (in the traditional sense of the word), I just do direct mail marketing, the same as I did before. To me, this is a way to "do wholesaling" for more people in more places. The line betweeen the two professions gets very blurry in my situation. So for the site, I labeled myself as a wholesaler, since that's essentially what I do. But I don't put that on the company website because it makes more sense to position the service as a direct mail service. Maybe I messed up on that one. I figured it sounded better to be a direct mail marketer that only charges for results, than a wholesaler who doesn't do any negotiating of the deal. Ha!
Originally posted by Jerry Puckett:
all this time I thought he was trying to help, but he really just wanted to sell me
This is another interesting concept. I see what you're saying, for sure. But sales professionals who truly believe in the benefit that their product or service gives will argue that they ARE helping people even if/when the prospect buys something from them.
Originally posted by Jerry Puckett:
You mention Michael Quarles... he also got censured again and again for being too direct about selling his products outside the marketplace forum.
This is good to know. Now I don't feel so bad about this. Ha!
Blair - To get the signature with logo, you do need to upgrade to a PRO account (not pro basic). Make sure to set up a company profile in our COMPANIES directory at http://www.biggerpockets.com/companies (with logo), and then you should be good. If not, tweak your settings for your Signature at: http://www.biggerpockets.com/profile/signature
Quick Note: I've peeled off a post to a new thread that inquired about Blair's company and placed it in the ASK ABOUT A REAL ESTATE COMPANY section of the forums. Please take any questions about this company there.
Quick Note: I've peeled off a post to a new thread that inquired about Blair's company and placed it in the ASK ABOUT A REAL ESTATE COMPANY section of the forums. Please take any questions about this company there.
Blair H. When I originally read your post I thought it sounded like a great response rate, etc. In noting the website address I clicked onto it and read the info on your company. That too sounded interesting.
My comment was simply to ask if it was in fact your company, as it seemed strange to me that if it were, you didn't mention that you owned a company that did direct marketing. As for Michael Q., if you look at his posts, it was always obvious he was the owner of his company, and therefore; when reading his posts it gave him more credibilitiy on the subject, as it would you too.
Please understand, nobody is putting you or your company down. All of us, including me, has had posts booted to another area, in fact I did just a few days ago, I had something moved to Marketplace!
So, welcome aboard. Please share with us about your marketing ideas and other real estate investing goals, etc. that's what we come here for!
Blair H. When I originally read your post I thought it sounded like a great response rate, etc. In noting the website address I clicked onto it and read the info on your company. That too sounded interesting.
My comment was simply to ask if it was in fact your company, as it seemed strange to me that if it were, you didn't mention that you owned a company that did direct marketing. As for Michael Q., if you look at his posts, it was always obvious he was the owner of his company, and therefore; when reading his posts it gave him more credibilitiy on the subject, as it would you too.
Please understand, nobody is putting you or your company down. All of us, including me, has had posts booted to another area, in fact I did just a few days ago, I had something moved to Marketplace!
So, welcome aboard. Please share with us about your marketing ideas and other real estate investing goals, etc. that's what we come here for!
Karen M. Thanks so much for your message. I appreciate your help and your input as I figure this all out.
I'll be posting more marketing ideas on my BP blog soon. Thanks again.
How did you compile this data, what software did you use?
I just use a spreadsheet I created. I keep track of all the different variables with each mailing, compute the percentages, find averages, etc. Pretty easy to do if you have Excel.
For what it is worth, I had sent a PM to Blair because he had mentioned that he had wholesaled a property to a buyer in Atlanta area. I wanted to get in contact with that buyer so I asked Blair for an introduction and he provided it very quickly. That was a couple weeks ago.
Blair, thanks for the introduction. I have exchanged a few emails with that buyer. I don't know if anything will develop further, but I appreciate the introduction.
For what it is worth, I had sent a PM to Blair because he had mentioned that he had wholesaled a property to a buyer in Atlanta area. I wanted to get in contact with that buyer so I asked Blair for an introduction and he provided it very quickly. That was a couple weeks ago.
Blair, thanks for the introduction. I have exchanged a few emails with that buyer. I don't know if anything will develop further, but I appreciate the introduction.
Hey Scott, my pleasure. Thanks for posting the update.
This thread is actually very helpful, Blair H.! Thank you! So, does you're company do these small yellow cards? Do you find that they work better than, say, a white or yellow letter? And I noticed you really don't use list source anymore? Does you're company also provide Leads? Just curious about it all, since this is exactly what I am researching at the moment! :)
This thread is actually very helpful, Blair H.! Thank you! So, does you're company do these small yellow cards? Do you find that they work better than, say, a white or yellow letter? And I noticed you really don't use list source anymore? Does you're company also provide Leads? Just curious about it all, since this is exactly what I am researching at the moment! :)
Hi Nichole,
Thanks for the kind words of encouragement!
Yes, we use the little yellow postcards over the yellow letters. We've just found we get a better quality lead with the postcards.
And actually, Listsource is a good provider of mailing data. I'd use them if I were you.
I don't want to break any forum policies by promoting my company (I'm still not sure how that all works and where the line is that I'm not supposed to cross), but if you want, you can click the link in my signature to see how it all works - in reference to your question about if we provide leads.
@Blair H., Can you I use the same mailings for multifamily of 5 units to 50 units? Also what variables do you use in your spreadsheet to keep track of your mailings? I too didnt find a problem with your posting, very informative to me. Thank you.
@Blair H., Can you I use the same mailings for multifamily of 5 units to 50 units? Also what variables do you use in your spreadsheet to keep track of your mailings? I too didnt find a problem with your posting, very informative to me. Thank you.
I would think so, but I haven't tried it. I think any marketer will tell you - it's all about testing. I'd say go for it, and see if it works for you.
As for keeping track of mailings, I separate each list of names into the different weekly parts that I mail to.
So if I purchase a list of 5,000 names, and I want to mail 1,000 per week, I put the first 1k names in a CSV file with filename ending "...-R1P1", meaning Round 1 Part 1. That means this is the first round of mailing to these particular people, and it is the first part of the list of 5k names.
The second set of 1k names would be labeled "...-R1P2", meaning Round 1 Part 2. And so on and so forth.
As the responses come in, I remove their names from the lists so that they are not mailed to again.
So once I've mailed postcard #1 to lists R1P1, R1P2, R1P3, R1P4, and R1P5, I start over and mail them all postcard #2 - R2P1, R2P2, R2P3, R2P4, and R2P5.
As for tracking responses, etc., I keep that data in a separate spreadsheet. I just tried inserting a screenshot into the post here, as an example, but it's not coming out right. So here's a link: Example Tracking Spreadsheet screenshot
I'm actually putting together a free download showing how I do all this stuff. I'll put a notice out on the site when I make it available.
@Blair H., One more thing I wanted to ask. You mentioned you send your callers to a pre-recorded message. If you don't mind me asking, can you give an example of what your pre-recorded message says?
@Blair H., One more thing I wanted to ask. You mentioned you send your callers to a pre-recorded message. If you don't mind me asking, can you give an example of what your pre-recorded message says?
The voicemail greeting basically just tells people a little bit more about who you are and what you do, and why they should leave a message after the beep with their name, phone, and property address (and asking price if you want).
I'll be putting this sort of detailed info into the free download when it's ready.
Are you having a higher response rate with yellow letters or postcards?
Also what percentage of deals are you closing after they call in?
Back when I was doing wholesaling as my primary strategy, I was only using postcards, and it usually took 25-30 leads to make a deal.
I used Yellow Letters only a handful of times - they produced more responses, but I did not get as many deals from the leads. It could have been due to a number of variables, but at the time I blamed it on the YL's and just stuck with postcards. I was happy with the PC's.
Blair, I'm trying to get an understand of your numbers and how many post cards (and cost) it takes to secure one deal.
From what I can understand, you have a response rate of 10.5% to your postcards. From there, 4.47% of the people who listen to your 2 minute voicemail leave a message - or is that 4.47% of the people you mail leave a message?
Then it takes 1 in 25 people who leave a message to close a deal.
1,000 mailers
105 response
4 voicemails
0.168 deals
So to close one deal, it takes you 10,000 postcards?