My YellowLetter. Please critique

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My YellowLetter. Please critique

Jason Grosso
Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 6 votes

So, I have made my own Yellow Letters and have sent out about 200 thus far int he past week. Standard white #10 envelope with handwritten font on the front in red, same font used on the letter. Small return label with same red ink and very small font (same kind) used on the back to seal the envelope at the point of the flap. Paper is 20# legal yellow paper torn from legal pads. Standard 1st class stamp used.

So...thoughts? Input? Advice? My first batch of 100 last week got 2 calls...both from people saying "take me off your list" which is no big deal. However nothing much else. I plan to use Michael's letters after my first deal when I have enough spare cash to do it. I received the samples from him (as well as the green "I Buy Houses" bracelet...which I admit I wear lol). He has a great quality product and has it down to a science from what I can tell. Anywho...any input or advice from the seasoned folks would be greatly appreciated!

Just picture the text on the yellow paper. I have it lined up properly so it looks handwritten. This is the same font used on the front of the envelope and on the return label on the back.

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Jerry PuckettPro Member
Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y

Hi Jason Grosso
A couple of things jump out at me.
1) I don't like plain white #10 envelopes. When I write personal letters, that's not what I use. When I receive personal mail from family and friends, it's rarely the envelope of choice. So when I see the white # 10, I expect marketing, a bill, or some such. Add in the handwriting font and it simply screams marketing.

I use the smaller 3 x 6 envelopes with handwriting font for address and return address. Font combined with smaller envelope gets under the radar...I've had much praise on them and response rate.

2) I really don't like the "me and my wife" model. I find it to be a little too deceptive for my taste. While I do project myself as a guy looking to buy a house rather than an investor looking for a deal, I don't pretend to be home shopping. My copy is direct and to the point without the gimmicky dollar signs, although my call to action is clear.

One other thing to take note of....many times it takes more than one touch to get your phone ringing. One and done rarely cuts it. Rather, multiple mailings to the same list should yield better and better results...if your list is good.

Hope that helps.

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  • David NilesBusiness Member
    Property Manager · DeLand FL · Member since 2012 · 860 posts · 243 votes
    13y

    Your photbucket link died on you Jason.

    0Reply
  • Jason Grosso
    OP
    Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Here's the letter sorry. Had to edit the last one to omit my phone number. Wish I could edit the post lol.

    0Reply
  • Jason Grosso
    OP
    Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    David Niles yep...I killed it ;) See post above.

    0Reply
  • David NilesBusiness Member
    Property Manager · DeLand FL · Member since 2012 · 860 posts · 243 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Jason Grosso:
    Here's the letter sorry. Had to edit the last one to omit my phone number. Wish I could edit the post lol.

    Oh dam, and I was just gonna give you a call. ;)

    0Reply
  • Justin McClelland
    Specialist · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 75 posts · 25 votes
    13y

    The copy and appearance of the actual letter look fine. In my opinion, the most important part of your (yellow) letter campaign will be, 1) who you are mailing to and 2) getting the letter opened.

    1. What target of people did you choose to mail your letters to? The more narrow and focused, the better.

    2. I would suggest against using a handwritten font printed on the envelope. Try to go with actual handwriting if possible. Outsource it, or set aside a little time daily to write these yourself. Most, including myself can spot fonts from a mile away.

    Remember that most (including me) open mail over the trash can. You have just a few seconds to make your piece make an impact. Cut no corners.

    0Reply
  • Jason Grosso
    OP
    Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    David Niles, you a motivated seller? LOL!

    0Reply
  • Jason Grosso
    OP
    Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Justin McClelland, thanks for the info. I use the same font you see there for the envelope address and name and such. Same color "ink". These are all being printed from an Inkjet printer and as such the ink bleeds a tad just like a pen. Overall it's pretty darn close...however I can see about handwriting the envelopes. Might have my wife do it as my handwriting looks like a chicken with the shakes.

    In regard to your questions. My first batch of 100 was just a random pull of SFR's, 3/2, purchased before 2000 in a specific zip. My new list which has gone out this week was another zip, purchased before 2000, 3/2, absentee's so I hope for a better response. Phone just rang a bit ago, no voicemail but I will be calling back shortly. Looking to do another list of the same general criteria as above but for mortgage lates.

    0Reply
  • Jerry PuckettPro Member
    Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Hi Jason Grosso
    A couple of things jump out at me.
    1) I don't like plain white #10 envelopes. When I write personal letters, that's not what I use. When I receive personal mail from family and friends, it's rarely the envelope of choice. So when I see the white # 10, I expect marketing, a bill, or some such. Add in the handwriting font and it simply screams marketing.

    I use the smaller 3 x 6 envelopes with handwriting font for address and return address. Font combined with smaller envelope gets under the radar...I've had much praise on them and response rate.

    2) I really don't like the "me and my wife" model. I find it to be a little too deceptive for my taste. While I do project myself as a guy looking to buy a house rather than an investor looking for a deal, I don't pretend to be home shopping. My copy is direct and to the point without the gimmicky dollar signs, although my call to action is clear.

    One other thing to take note of....many times it takes more than one touch to get your phone ringing. One and done rarely cuts it. Rather, multiple mailings to the same list should yield better and better results...if your list is good.

    Hope that helps.

    5Reply
  • Jason Grosso
    OP
    Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Jerry Puckett thanks for the response and info, truly appreciate it. I will go with the smaller envelopes from now now. I assume you just double fold the letter then? I use the wife and I deal as that is the truth...her and I are in it together. However I am open to suggestions. What, in your experience, tends to be the most effective opener? Im willing to try multiple "styles" and track the success rate of each. Heck, already doing that. Excel can be a great thing when leveraged properly.

    I understand about the multiple mailings. I plan to keep knocking them out. My apologies if my post implied, even to the slightest degree, that I was not going to push on. I'm a persistent individual and will keep doing it until I get a deal, and then do it again and again. I just want to make sure I'm doing things which improve my odds even if only by a few percent.

    0Reply
  • Chris Feltus
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Fort Worth , TX · Member since 2012 · 211 posts · 152 votes
    13y

    In addition to the suggestions Jerry Puckett mentioned, I would recommend using a blue pastel envelope. Out of the different combinations I have tried, this has the best response rate by far.

    0Reply
  • Patrick Martinez
    Investor · Stockton, CA · Member since 2013 · 92 posts · 12 votes
    13y

    Hello Jerry Puckett can you recommend a good list provider? If you have in the past mentioned it on another thread I would be happy to read it. Thank you

    0Reply
  • Jason Grosso
    OP
    Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Chris F. sounds good. Will do so in the future. Thank you!

    Patrick Martinez, got mine through Listsource. Contact their sales guys and they can get you setup with a discounted per lead rate. I know Michael Quarles (sp?) has lists on his site and you also have USLeadList.

    2Reply
  • Justin McClelland
    Specialist · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 75 posts · 25 votes
    13y

    Everyone else has chimed in with good info. And you are on the right track with getting more targeted with your mailing list. You want to be as targeted as you can get. Be creative.

    1. Single Family Rental Property list = so-so
    2. Single Family Rental Property list, that has been cross-referenced against a Section 8 complaint list, that's cross-referenced against a weed lien list = GOLD.

    I just use that for an example, so hopefully you see what I mean.

    And regarding your "chicken-scratch" handwriting. I say go with your handwriting versus your wife's (assuming hers is neat). The key is to stand out!

    Wrinkle the letter up, put a life-saver candy in the envelope, etc (these are all proven methods of contrast marketing). Do whatever. Think of something new. Just go for it

    1Reply
  • Seth WilliamsPro Member
    Specialist · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2012 · 582 posts · 353 votes
    13y

    Just out of curiosity - why do people use letters in envelopes at all? Do these actually pull in a better response rate than a simple postcard?

    I've been using the very basic 4.25 x 6 yellow postcards (with plain, black ink) for almost all of my mailings for the past five years, and I don't think I've ever gotten a response rate of less than 5% (at least, none that I can remember). What kind of response rates are you all getting with letters?

    I keep reading about how everybody else is putting more into this than I am, which makes me feel like I must be missing something.

    Don't the "letters in envelopes" require more paper, ink and postage (i.e. - a higher cost) to hit the same number of people? It seems like you could mail to a much larger list for the same cost if you just used postcards (which in most cases, can't be thrown away without the recipient at least glancing at your message for a split second).

    School me! I'd love to hear some other perspectives on this.

    Podcast Guest on Show #39
    1Reply
  • Cody C.
    Central Point, OR · Member since 2013 · 58 posts · 8 votes
    13y

    Seth Williams, You get a 5% return rate on mailers? That's amazing! I believe the average return rate for mailers from outside sources is around .5%... maybe we should ask what YOU are doing?

    0Reply
  • Jerry PuckettPro Member
    Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Seth Williams:
    Just out of curiosity - why do people use letters in envelopes at all? Do these actually pull in a better response rate than a simple postcard?

    Unequivocally yes

    Seth,
    This subject has been discussed plenty around here. Here's a link to one of the better threads about it though: http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/80117

    The general consensus that your message needs to be read, and the majority of postcards tend to land in the trash.

    Kudos to you for your high response rate. Most of the empirical data suggests much lower typical response from PC's. Most of the folks I hear from who say differently themselves market post cards. People I talk to who actually test and compare say yellow letters out perform every time.

    Patrick Martinez, ListSource and Melissa data are both good resources. I get my data directly from the county I work in. Click 2 mail provides lists also, and Joshua Dorkin provided this partner link: http://www.biggerpockets.com/partners/click2mail.php Now everytime we use Click2mail, we can help BP out also.

    2Reply
  • Michael Quarles
    Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    white 10s have their place. Absolutely handwrite your envelopes. Your messages is fine. Except remove one if you and the neighborhood.

    Understand for every "No" that a yes is coming.

    Congrates

    1Reply
  • Jason Grosso
    OP
    Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Justin McClelland - Thanks for the recommendations and info...I'll certainly apply it.

    Michael Quarles: So, even though the font and color I use for the envelope is the exact same as shown in my image from earlier you would still say handwrite them? And thanks for the info and motivation. I have no plans other than to keep pushing.

    0Reply
  • Seth WilliamsPro Member
    Specialist · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2012 · 582 posts · 353 votes
    13y

    Thanks for the link Jerry Puckett. That was helpful to read through and get some other opinions. Just what I was looking for.

    I can certainly see how letters in envelopes would present better for those who take the time to open them... but I still don't follow how a postcard (which literally MUST be glanced at before trashing) would be read less often than a letter in an envelope (which can be trashed without even opening it).

    Again, I must be missing something totally obvious - as everyone else in that thread seems to see what I don't. Maybe I'll have to try letters in envelopes a few more times and see if it does any better for me.

    I guess it's all just theory at the end of the day. I know it's easy for me to mistakenly think that I understand my recipients' behavior (when I really have no idea what's going on in their heads, who reads what, what exactly stands out to people, what each person's motivation is, etc.). I guess the only "actual proof" of what works would be the ongoing response rate.

    Thanks for sharing your version Jason Grosso. It'd be interesting to see some other examples out there.

    Podcast Guest on Show #39
    0Reply
  • Jason Grosso
    OP
    Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Seth Williams, simple human psychology. The phrase "curiosity killed the cat" comes to mind. I'm no expert in Yellow Letters or REI for that matter. However I do know a thing or two about human psychology. We are curious creatures. So, when a letter comes in the mail to us and the address appears hand written, has a standard stamp as opposed to being metered, comes in a plain envelope or even one which looks like an invitation style envelope and so forth, we are curious. With regards to postcards, yes it is easier to read immediately, requiring no opening of an envelope, however we as a society are so conditioned to see what we think is junk mail (postcard with printed standard fonts) and just trash it. Now if we see something which peaks our curiosity we tend to investigate. It is a matter of getting someone to investigate what they received from us and get their attention even for just a minute or two, versus the few seconds from a postcard.

    1Reply
  • Brandon Foken
    Wholesaler · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2012 · 259 posts · 147 votes
    13y

    I'm seeing a lot of suggestion to go with the A6 invitation style envelopes. Does anyone have any experience with the large brown envelopes? Like this one here: http://www.amazon.com/Columbian-CO645-6x9-Inch-Catalog-Envelopes/dp/B000078CQ0/ref=sr_1_14?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1360285163&sr=1-14.

    I did my first direct mailer and have only received 7 calls back out of 896 leads. I'm looking for ways to increase my response rate so I was thinking of handwriting the address on these envelopes and using a printed "handwritten" yellow letter. Would love to know if anyone has used these and what their experience was.

    0Reply
  • Wayne Brooks
    Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    13y

    Haven't tried them yet, but I was thinking of the 12x9 full size white envelopes, or brown now that you mrntion it.

    0Reply
  • Jason Grosso
    OP
    Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Brandon Foken, are you not handwriting the names/addresses on the envelopes now?

    0Reply
  • Brandon Foken
    Wholesaler · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2012 · 259 posts · 147 votes
    13y

    Jason Grosso, correct. I am currently printing a "hand-written" font on the envelope. Response rate has been far from good so that's why I'm looking to change things up. I'm thinking of trying those large brown envelopes and writing the address in sharpie with a printed return label.

    0Reply
  • Jason Grosso
    OP
    Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2013 · 48 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Brandon Foken, same here. Using a hand written font in red, same font/color combo as on the letter itself. I guess from what I have been reading on here that even though the font looks handwritten it is still better to actually write it. My concern is the two different looking texts (actual handwriting vs font). I know I can make my own font however I have tried it and it looks rough.

    0Reply
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