Experiences in Roofstock, Doorvest, Norada, or other "Turnkey" solutions
Member since 2023 · 9 posts · 5 votes
Experiences in Roofstock, Doorvest, Norada, or other "Turnkey" solutions
Most Popular Reply
Rental Property Investor · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2yI don't know anything about Roofstock or Doorvest. As far as Norada, do a search on BP and read who's commented on Norada Capital - it's not good and be very cautious.
I communicated with turnkey providers in Memphis and one that has properties in Cleveland, Detroit and St. Louis. I didn't go with those markets since I know nothing about them and it would have taken months of research on those cities and neighborhoods. Turnkey providers can range from terrible to great.
I invest in California and the Indianapolis metro area. I used to live in the Indy area so I was familiar with the city and much more so now down to a detailed level. I've posted many times about my experience with OOS. I know many people who have lost money from buying low priced "cash flow on paper" Class C properties (myself included). I recommend Class A or B, not Class C if you're going to buy OOS and fly out to the area
Anytime a turnkey provider, wholesaler, seller, agent etc that shows you a spreadsheet number with cash flow, appreciation, repairs, capital expenses etc those are ideal scenarios. I would add on more for cap ex and repairs. A renovated older house can pass inspection but once someone is living in it and putting daily stress on the house, there will be repair issues. Research the information provided, maybe talk to local experienced investors (someone unbiased not trying to sell you anything).
A cautionary note: any time someone says real estate investing is "hassle free", "it meets the 1% rule", do lots of research. Many investors benefited from the huge run up in values from 2018-2022. It's a different scenario in 2024 with high prices and 7% interest rates.
I don't mean to rain on your parade but I just want to paint a realistic picture - you can make money and lose money in RE.
19 Replies
- 2yKerlous TadresBusiness MemberRealtor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Quote from @Jaden Jung:
Hi BP Community,
I work full-time and am interested in some of these turnkey solutions I see online that almost seem like one-stop-shop and hassle-free. It seems to be a good way to diversify my investment portfolio if the numbers make sense compared to other asset class options.
I can't buy in my current market, so I'm looking for more affordable options out of state.
I was curious about people's experiences using turnkey real estate investing solutions, and if anyone recommends a different tool.
Thanks!
Hey Jaden,
I invest here in Columbus, Ohio and there are some really affordable deals you can buy here. Also be more than happy to help you build your CORE 4
Kerlous Tadres | Reafco Real Estate541 Reviews - 2yJimmy LieuBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Jaden Jung:
Hi BP Community,
I work full-time and am interested in some of these turnkey solutions I see online that almost seem like one-stop-shop and hassle-free. It seems to be a good way to diversify my investment portfolio if the numbers make sense compared to other asset class options.
I can't buy in my current market, so I'm looking for more affordable options out of state.
I was curious about people's experiences using turnkey real estate investing solutions, and if anyone recommends a different tool.
Thanks!
Hi Jaden! If you're priced out of your current market, I would definitely look into other markets where you can find great macroeconomics, positive cash flow, and amazing appreciation potential. That's actually why I personally moved from Portland, Oregon to Columbus Ohio - to start my full time real estate investing career. I would suggest taking a look at Columbus Ohio because it has everything mentioned above and there's so many companies moving/developing here. I'd make sure to check out the Intel headquarters, Ohio State University, Google, Amazon, FB, Nationwide Children's Hospital, etc. Happy to connect and answer any questions you have!
Jimmy Lieu, Red 1 Realty4.9120 Reviews - 2ySamuel DioufBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus & Cleveland, OH · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
I think you can invest out-of-state quite passively without using one of these companies as long as you develop a solid core-4.
There are some great OOS investment opportunities here in Ohio.
The biggest thing you'd have to manage after purchasing the right deal for you would be the property manager, so you can make sure he's managing your property how you'd like.
Reafco - Samuel Diouf528 Reviews - Member since 2023 · 9 posts · 5 votes2y
Quote from @Samuel Diouf:
I think you can invest out-of-state quite passively without using one of these companies as long as you develop a solid core-4.
There are some great OOS investment opportunities here in Ohio.
The biggest thing you'd have to manage after purchasing the right deal for you would be the property manager, so you can make sure he's managing your property how you'd like.
Thanks Samuel. What would you say are the biggest advantages of developing a solid core-4 vs. a more established turnkey company that are a few clicks?
Quote from @Jaden Jung:
Quote from @Samuel Diouf:
I think you can invest out-of-state quite passively without using one of these companies as long as you develop a solid core-4.
There are some great OOS investment opportunities here in Ohio.
The biggest thing you'd have to manage after purchasing the right deal for you would be the property manager, so you can make sure he's managing your property how you'd like.
Thanks Samuel. What would you say are the biggest advantages of developing a solid core-4 vs. a more established turnkey company that are a few clicks?
What is this question? Turnkey does the work for you and sells it to you priced in. You can go do the same thing and extract all the value.
It's why you ****ing invest. Capture value.
- Rental Property Investor · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes2y
I don't know anything about Roofstock or Doorvest. As far as Norada, do a search on BP and read who's commented on Norada Capital - it's not good and be very cautious.
I communicated with turnkey providers in Memphis and one that has properties in Cleveland, Detroit and St. Louis. I didn't go with those markets since I know nothing about them and it would have taken months of research on those cities and neighborhoods. Turnkey providers can range from terrible to great.
I invest in California and the Indianapolis metro area. I used to live in the Indy area so I was familiar with the city and much more so now down to a detailed level. I've posted many times about my experience with OOS. I know many people who have lost money from buying low priced "cash flow on paper" Class C properties (myself included). I recommend Class A or B, not Class C if you're going to buy OOS and fly out to the area
Anytime a turnkey provider, wholesaler, seller, agent etc that shows you a spreadsheet number with cash flow, appreciation, repairs, capital expenses etc those are ideal scenarios. I would add on more for cap ex and repairs. A renovated older house can pass inspection but once someone is living in it and putting daily stress on the house, there will be repair issues. Research the information provided, maybe talk to local experienced investors (someone unbiased not trying to sell you anything).
A cautionary note: any time someone says real estate investing is "hassle free", "it meets the 1% rule", do lots of research. Many investors benefited from the huge run up in values from 2018-2022. It's a different scenario in 2024 with high prices and 7% interest rates.
I don't mean to rain on your parade but I just want to paint a realistic picture - you can make money and lose money in RE.
- 2yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Jaden Jung:
Hi BP Community,
I work full-time and am interested in some of these turnkey solutions I see online that almost seem like one-stop-shop and hassle-free. It seems to be a good way to diversify my investment portfolio if the numbers make sense compared to other asset class options.
I can't buy in my current market, so I'm looking for more affordable options out of state.
I was curious about people's experiences using turnkey real estate investing solutions, and if anyone recommends a different tool.
Thanks!
Hi Jaden,
I'm not a fan of hybrid turnkey models like the companies you mention.
Also, not a fan of many turnkey marketing companies.
Granted, I'm bias but if anyone is interested in turnkey just go straight to the provider.
Not many around these days anymore and the one's that are, have stood the test of time and are obviously solid.
I think it's less riskier nowadays to invest in turnkey properties than before because all of the poor providers have disappeared and only the good one's are still around.
Plus, seems like the "hands off" and so beloved syndications are going belly up so turnkey might be in fashion again.
And no big deal IMO that turnkey is not completely "hands off".
Is anything completely passive other than 30yr Treasury Bonds?
Even they need monitored from time to time.
As least you own and control the asset, can sell whenever you want and you won't get any capital calls other than your turnkey provider calling you to buy another one lol
Much success - Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes2y
Quote from @Jaden Jung:
Hi BP Community,
I work full-time and am interested in some of these turnkey solutions I see online that almost seem like one-stop-shop and hassle-free. It seems to be a good way to diversify my investment portfolio if the numbers make sense compared to other asset class options.
I can't buy in my current market, so I'm looking for more affordable options out of state.
I was curious about people's experiences using turnkey real estate investing solutions, and if anyone recommends a different tool.
Thanks!
If you cannot dedicate the time needed to run the investments, hire a reputable property manager. Or, you can buy a REIT. Don't invest in these LP deals. Unless you really know what you are doing, you can lose your shirt.
- 2yDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
@Jaden Jung many newbies make the mistake (often financially fatal) that assuming investing in real estate is like investing in mutual funds.
It's more like directly investing in non-Fortune 5000 (yes, that's 5000, not 500) stocks.
- What do you think will happen if you do this without a LOT of research?
- How passive will it actually be?Also, many newbies don't understand that most turnkey providers are selling them Class C rentals - yet the newbies are expecting Class A results.
If you go turnkey, you better be VERY careful and understand the risks - NOTHING is risk-free!
- Speak with @Engelo Rumora as he doesn't sugarcoat anything.If you'd rather do a BRRR-type deal to add your own equity, check us out in the Detroit market.
- We've Class-rated the 183 Detroit Neighborhoods, which we're not aware of anyone else doing in any other market.
Logical Property Management4.9460 Reviews - 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Samuel Diouf:
I think you can invest out-of-state quite passively without using one of these companies as long as you develop a solid core-4.
There are some great OOS investment opportunities here in Ohio.
The biggest thing you'd have to manage after purchasing the right deal for you would be the property manager, so you can make sure he's managing your property how you'd like.
OP the core 4 while sounding cool is very very risky .. I would NOT recommend that approach at all .. its just as easy to lose your butt as to gain a little bit of equity do all that work.. Buy rehab and refi works if you can personally manage it all.. @Jaden Jung I generally stay away from these things. The reward is certainly not worth the risk.
I am also a PML and that would be a far better use of your money (still some risk to it, of course). Ideally, you could also be an investor and buy something in a cheaper market and have it managed by a PM. I would generally go with one of these two strategies to put your money to work.
- Member since 2023 · 9 posts · 5 votes2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Samuel Diouf:
I think you can invest out-of-state quite passively without using one of these companies as long as you develop a solid core-4.
There are some great OOS investment opportunities here in Ohio.
The biggest thing you'd have to manage after purchasing the right deal for you would be the property manager, so you can make sure he's managing your property how you'd like.
OP the core 4 while sounding cool is very very risky .. I would NOT recommend that approach at all .. its just as easy to lose your butt as to gain a little bit of equity do all that work.. Buy rehab and refi works if you can personally manage it all..Thanks @Jay Hinrichs
Is there an approach you would recommend if not the Core 4?
- 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Jaden Jung:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Samuel Diouf:
I think you can invest out-of-state quite passively without using one of these companies as long as you develop a solid core-4.
There are some great OOS investment opportunities here in Ohio.
The biggest thing you'd have to manage after purchasing the right deal for you would be the property manager, so you can make sure he's managing your property how you'd like.
OP the core 4 while sounding cool is very very risky .. I would NOT recommend that approach at all .. its just as easy to lose your butt as to gain a little bit of equity do all that work.. Buy rehab and refi works if you can personally manage it all..Thanks @Jay Hinrichs
Is there an approach you would recommend if not the Core 4?
I would be talking to an agent in the area and buy a home that has been owner occuppied and well cared for.. - 2yGina RiccitelliPro MemberMember since 2019 · 14 posts · 5 votes
Hi Jaden, We went the turnkey provider route via Real Wealth Network. Vast amount of education on different markets and always current with new webinars, great investor coaches (free to you!) and, have good, to very good, vetted property teams in different metros, and detailed quality standards. You can be pretty confident in your purchase with them once you are educated in their markets and rental product, AND your own due diligence (a must!). Don't expect to extract the greatest value obviously, bc there's a few extra hands helping you, but you also won't be completely on your own and they build in extra value/incentives that comes from being part of a group.
One house we purchased had a septic go bad during escrow, and the local property team just replaced it without even involving us. But, we also bought one house sight unseen that was a ultimately a not so great flip (same team, different area) which we were able to eventually fix (a cost of the fast-moving market, and us missing some quality clues) (Hint: have reserves on hand for a handyman!). Purchased from another team, we had to fire the jerk PM. Thus, a few bumps (stress, research, cash) later, now all are solid performers. So, turnkey yes, but definitely scrutinize and expect to be involved for a little while.
Issues that naturally came up during closing, I was able to discuss promptly with my RWN coach. The RWN coaches are investors themselves, but they also really take it seriously, give you their honest insight and they will go the extra mile to troubleshoot or advocate for you. They have been togethers for quite a few years so it's a solid group, never, ever selling you or pressuring you.
We also bought another rental on our own that was tenanted and managed by the listing agent. We kept her on as PM, and she has been great too. You might also ask your lender what turnkey providers they have worked with successfully. In my opinion though, based on the volume of free, up to date education, resources, number, variety and vetting of teams, and coaching support, Real Wealth Network is the gold standard. I'm a fan.
After selecting a strong market according to your priorities, it's all about the property managers. They must be organized, compliant, have strong well-priced vendors, quality marketing and timely tenant relations. We value a long term win-win relationship, well- priced, well-maintained homes to ensure solid tenants as well as respect for our finances and investment, so the PM has to be of the same mindset and ability to perform.
This has been by no means passive because things come up that have to be addressed, and a lot has to be organized, optimized and tracked. But once everything is set up and communications are addressed promptly, it's a monthly review, or quick email. Just make sure you set enough aside for capex, vacancies, unexpected insurance increase, taxes, tax professionals, and local considerations (excessive heat? AC breakdowns, cold? snow removal, insurance jumps, etc). Build that into your cash flow analysis. You'll need to get a good investor friendly CPA, possibly an LLC, bookkeeper, umbrella insurance coverage, separate bank account for rental.
- 2yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Drew Sygit:
@Jaden Jung many newbies make the mistake (often financially fatal) that assuming investing in real estate is like investing in mutual funds.
It's more like directly investing in non-Fortune 5000 (yes, that's 5000, not 500) stocks.
- What do you think will happen if you do this without a LOT of research?
- How passive will it actually be?Also, many newbies don't understand that most turnkey providers are selling them Class C rentals - yet the newbies are expecting Class A results.
If you go turnkey, you better be VERY careful and understand the risks - NOTHING is risk-free!
- Speak with @Engelo Rumora as he doesn't sugarcoat anything.If you'd rather do a BRRR-type deal to add your own equity, check us out in the Detroit market.
- We've Class-rated the 183 Detroit Neighborhoods, which we're not aware of anyone else doing in any other market.
Thanks for mention mate,
Happy to help and offer guidance.
We decided to totally pull back on taking on new investors and will just help our existing investors purchase from time to time.
It's not worth the baby sitting drama involved and I see folks would rather BRRRR so we will just do the PM and fix the F@#$ ups and charge appropriately for it 🤷♂️
I moved to the US 12 years ago to build my own portfolio and all I have done was help others build theirs lol.
I don't even have a larger portfolio than our highest volume investor...
What a joke for me hehe - Specialist · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2011 · 879 posts · 398 votes2y
Thanks for the feedback Gina! I work for Real Wealth and we offer turnkey and new construction properties. Kathy Fettke, who is the owner, is a regular host for the On The Market podcast. But we never tell investors that turnkey is "hassle free" or totally passive. That's just not true. We educate members on how to be their own advocate and do their own research. But we do make it easy to find quality property, and qualified property managers.
- Member since 2024 · 9 posts · 9 votes1y
Beware of Norada and their recommendations.
I live in Southern California and bought an investment house in the midwest through their recommendations.
Several takeaways-
1. the ProFormas are complete fiction, listing only 5-10 percent for vacancy and repairs and on the flip side, steady growth on appreciation and rent increases. One tenant turn after a year and a half completely destroyed all cash flow for those two years and the next 5 years. Even though I had insurance and had even added on a couple optional items, it was death by a thousand cuts on the repairs. Broken doors and windows, paint, stolen smoke detectors and missing window blinds, plus trash removal, all that adds up very quickly. When the initial tenant broke the lease (after not paying rent for a month and a half) the PM advised me to lower the rent instead of raising it as advertised in the initial proforma.
2. Property management. I cannot stress enough how important a trusted PM is out of state. Norada told me over and over that this PM was "one of the best in the business." However the tenant was constantly late with rent, the lease was written so that the PM kept all late fees (thus incentivising late payments), and after being assured that this was a good tenant on renewal, 6 months later I was handed a $3500 repair bill for the initial tenant turn. Then the website for the PM company crashed just as my property was to be listed for rent and their main point of contact left town. Paperwork and billing was poorly explained and often incorrect. At that point I had enough and moved my property to another company, first having to pay a $500 early termination fee and an imaginary cleaning fee to ransom my property. The new PM found several other essential repairs that had not been handled by the Norada approved company (leaking pipes, non- grounded electrical outlets) so there was another huge repair bill. The new PM did rent the property for more money. Three months after I left the first PM that Norada had recommended, I started receiving emails that they were being investigated for fraud, then they dissolved the company. Thank goodness I had already moved my property to other management. Looking back on the sketchy documentation for the initial repairs I feel was scammed. $780 to repair one window? In a house that only rents for $1095? Clearly Norada does NOT vet the out of state managers and I cannot emphasize enough how stressful and difficult this has been because of that. Every month there was some kind of disaster
3. Mis-represenation of tax benefits. As I was exploring the idea of buying a property through Norada, they extolled the out of state tax benefits because I live in a high income tax state. THERE ARE NO TAX BENEFITS UNLESS YOU ARE ABLE TO PROVE TO THE IRS THAT YOU ARE SPENDING MORE THAN 750 HOURS ON REAL ESTATE. Most of us wouldn't be investing in turnkey real estate if we had that kind of time to spend managing properties. For most people you will only save a little money on any PROFITS if you have a loss the first year. If the property loses money, you just.. lose money.
4. Lack of a exit strategy. So now what? Now that I have owned this property for almost 2 years and lost thousands and thousands of dollars, what is the next step? Norada has no guidance or infomation on that.
I was really excited to buy my first investment property because of the high price of entry on the coast but I would have been better off taking that money and buying eggs or lottery tickets or at least Tbills.
- 1yTodd AndersonPro MemberReal Estate Agent · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2023 · 392 posts · 175 votes
I have another variation on the turnkey model. Looked new construction.
New construction offers a few benefits that other turnkey providers don't. New construction you're investing into a property in a good area because it is brand new. You also get the benefit of a new property that will most likely have far less maintenance for the future. Third with newer properties, you normally get better appreciation because your comparables are other new construction.
When I talk to the investors that I work with, they can find turnkey solution to a new construction property that offers them a largely hands-off transaction, and create incentives that they can't find on the MLS. Builders are able to offer rate by downs and sometimes free property management that you just can't find on the open market.
Any of the investors that I have worked with have been so impressed with the process that they've come back for a second third or fourth property.
Best of luck on your next investment.
- Real Estate Agent · Memphis, TN · Member since 2021 · 88 posts · 50 votes1y
Hi Jaden!
That's awesome you are looking into real estate investing. I have worked with many new investors and here are some things I think is important when looking fro turnkey companies..
- Property management – Some companies have in-house management, while others outsource. Having everything under one roof can make a big difference.
- Market selection – Make sure you're investing in a market with long-term demand and job growth, not just short-term affordability.
- Transparency – Look for providers that offer detailed reporting, renovation breakdowns, and clear communication.
There are quite a few companies that offer turnkey solutions, but not all are the same.
Good Luck!
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