What's your opinion on Dave Ramsey method for success, he mentions a lot its best to buy real estate property cash with no debt or as last resort 15yr mortgage, for most that are just starting out its almost impossible to have over a couple$ 100k to invest in real estate cash.
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
1mo
many real estate investors will not agree with his methodology or teachings .
if you are someone who has financial acumen and is good with managing money then many would not follow what he teaches. unfortunately many americans are not financially savvy and significantly struggle with managing debt and understanding how increased debt can put a lot of pressure and stress on someone. in those instances what he preaches is correct.
Orange County CA · Member since 2024 · 25 posts · 12 votes
1mo
He doesn't just drive the car. He owns a fleet of cars and they are race cars. Your analogy is wrong. You don't understand his plan, if you did you would not have said that. He parked the car and he learned how to drive. He studied physics, he studied every type of way to drive the car possible. And he learned how to drive the car better than most and never crash it again. His plan is the most guaranteed plan to financial freedom (slowest on the front side and fastest on the back side also). People don't spend money based on a calculators like most investors say in the arguments against Dave, they spend money based on emotions, that is the biggest part people miss about his plan. His plan is designed to be the most successful based on how humans think and act with money, debt is risk. And to all the people who commented about if you had hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank, it would be easy to pay cash. They missed the part where his plan gets you to that point. When you have no payments, your cash piles up very quickly. Most people are house poor and so they can't ever build Wealth, he has 7 steps in his plan. People talk about one or two of them and try to point those out as a bad idea. I know both really well. Rich dad poor dad/Dave Ramsey.
Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
2d
Broke advice for broke people. His advice makes for good for TV. It is similar to how HGTV makes for good TV but is not a real estate education platform.
I hang out with a group of multi-millionaire friends and learn from them. All of them became millionaires doing things contrary to what Dave Ramsey teaches.
If you have his bank account, then that is an option. For most others, you need to borrow to buy a house. I think it is important to not over leveraging yourself. Most debt is bad, but some (mortgage for your house) is necessary.
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
1mo
many real estate investors will not agree with his methodology or teachings .
if you are someone who has financial acumen and is good with managing money then many would not follow what he teaches. unfortunately many americans are not financially savvy and significantly struggle with managing debt and understanding how increased debt can put a lot of pressure and stress on someone. in those instances what he preaches is correct.
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
1mo
I think it depends on the asset as well.. those flocking to low value D class many times section 8 rentals in older inner city type stuff. I think buying those in cash is the only way to go for long term financial safety. Grade A or B assets in better to best areas are not as risky so debt on those is not as much risk.
It's worth noting that he did not get to where he is by using his own strategy. He arrived via leveraging debt and built an empire based on folks buying into program.... smart. His current strategy is sound but based in antiquity. His past strategy allowed him to be where he is now.
Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1mo
Ive seen several all cash sales in San Jose recently, $1.3-$1.4 ish, all pocket listings. San Francisco all cash sales in core markets up 30% between 4-26 - 6-26 (AI boom) Lots of bidding wars. Supply & demand.
Ive seen several all cash sales in San Jose recently, $1.3-$1.4 ish, all pocket listings. San Francisco all cash sales in core markets up 30% between 4-26 - 6-26 (AI boom) Lots of bidding wars. Supply & demand.
Must be nice to have the funds to pay cash for real estate, if available, i still think that is the way to go. Im currently in the car business (retail used car lot), all my cars are paid cash and in full, i know many guys that wanted to ramp up their inventory too fast and would get loans, long story short , cars got repossessed and business went under.
Investor · Lexington, SC · Member since 2018 · 779 posts · 501 votes
1mo
Jimmy, I see cash versus debt as a risk-capacity decision rather than a universal rule. Debt can improve capital efficiency, but it also creates a fixed obligation while rents, repairs, vacancies, and values remain uncertain. I would stress-test the property at lower rent, higher expenses, and a longer vacancy, then ask whether the investor still has adequate personal and property reserves. Paying cash can reduce financial pressure, while conservative leverage can preserve liquidity. The better choice is the one that remains workable when the original plan is delayed.
Investor · Pacific Northwest · Member since 2026 · 538 posts · 307 votes
1mo
A bad deal bought with cash is still a bad deal. It just fails more quietly.
I think that’s the piece that gets lost in the Ramsey argument. His system is optimized to make your personal finances very hard to kill. That’s not the same thing as optimizing an investment.
And weirdly, the 15-year mortgage can actually make a rental more fragile than a 30-year mortgage because the required monthly payment is higher. Paying it off faster sounds conservative, but you may be giving yourself less room for vacancy, repairs, taxes and bad months.
For a new investor, I wouldn’t obsess over cash vs. debt. I’d ask: does this property still work if rent comes in lower than expected, repairs run high, and I lose a month or two of occupancy?
If the debt survives that test, leverage probably isn’t your problem.
If the deal only works when everything goes right, paying cash doesn’t make it a good deal.
Debt isn’t automatically dangerous. Fragility is.
Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
1mo
OP. Ramsey versus REI are two different objectives, thus two different methods.
Home- if you’re not programmed for investing then locking into a house is a great investment. Less chance you will miss a payment or sale. If you go bankrupt you keep your house.
Property Manager · Melbourne, FL · Member since 2019 · 288 posts · 130 votes
1mo
Paying cash removes risk, but it also removes most people from the game. I care more about whether the debt is fixed, affordable and covered by conservative rent. Leverage got me into real estate. Reserves are what kept it from owning me.
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
1mo
Most Americans cannot manage their finances. Look at median net worth, credit card debt, etc to see this. For these people, the Ramsey teaching to minimize debt is wise.
For those who understand finances, know how to underwrite, want optimal returns, then leverage is the choice. Leverage is RE’s super power. Without leverage, passive options can provide the better return. Sp500 lifetime return is ~10%/year. Without leverage or value add, 10%/year is challenging in residential RE. Why invest in something as risky or with as much work as residential RE unless it is going to produce returns far in excess of a passive sp500?
I expect to recover my active RE investment in no more than 4 years. I question if recovering the investment in significantly more than 4 years if it is worth it compared to passive options. What was the average RE syndication return from 2012 to 2022 exit? Maybe 30%/year?
My point is without leverage, I suspect there are many better investment options than residential RE. Therefore, I would not recommend the Ramsey approach if you want to invest in residential RE.
Rental Property Investor · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
1mo
Debt is a great tool as long as it's used properly. The issue with debt is when you leverage too high, have too low of a DSCR, use floating debt, and not having reserves.
Debt is going to always add risk, but if you're trying to mitigate some risk, then use fixed rate debt, with a 1.5+ DSCR, at 50-65% LTV, with enough reserves to last 6 months+
Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
1mo
Talk to any financial advisor and owning a personal residence outright is almost universally their recommendation. Dave is no different. Dave has such a huge following that he basically regurgitates the most common practices and needs to be "conservative" on his advice because he does not want to get sued.
I am all for owning property outright. In a bull market, it does limit your returns, but it also greatly limits your downside in a bear market.
Ultimately, there is no right or wrong answer. You just need to understand your risk tolerance both on the individual asset level and your broader portfolio level to create the balance of risk:reward that is right for you.
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
3w
I think you need to find new financial advisors if that is the advice that they are giving you.
My financial advisors understand the power of leverage and would not suggest owning a house without debt except to the most conservative of investors (which I am far from the most conservative investor).
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
3w
just think were all those investors who jumped into apartment syndictions .. what if those GPs would have gone for lower returns based on cash flow and had zero debt. I know there are a few GPs out there that did this.. Its the investors themselves that put themselves in these situations chasing returns. And not really understanding the risk of debt.. Most of my wealthiest clients I have worked with over the years have little to zero debt in real estate. Business owners or high income individuals inverted balance sheets no debt only assets :) As it relates to BP and all the thousands of investors who thinking own rentals SFR's etc is going to create massive wealth well we see the other threads it can happen but one has to choose markets correctly there has to be significant appreciation to create wealth cant get there on cash flow and max debt at least from what I have seen.. I mean whats better 5 mil in paid for assets or 5 mil of equity sitting behind 20 mil in debt ??? I know which one I would choose.
Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
1mo
Real estate investments without leverage are a complete waste and often will do much worse then sp500 with more work and risk. The whole point is really leverage. If its for your personal home sure buy it cash if you have the funds where a cash purchase does not affect your ability to invest. I never take seriously anything a guru says.
Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2w
Quote from @Henry Lazerow:
Real estate investments without leverage are a complete waste and often will do much worse then sp500 with more work and risk. The whole point is really leverage. If its for your personal home sure buy it cash if you have the funds where a cash purchase does not affect your ability to invest. I never take seriously anything a guru says.
They are not a complete waste. That's just regurgitated crap you hear.
It's a huge benefit to be levered but grabbing a great properly leverage free is essentially a 10% tax equivalent return(given mortgage rates are 8% for investments) versus taking a 8-8.5% investment mortgage. Yes, there's tax benefits to having a "mortgage", you can equity strip, And now you're literally holding gold in terms of what you bought. yes, you can "leverage" into 3-4 but now you got 3-4x all risks. So risk-adjusted, the rates tell you:
less leverage, better quality.
99% of the people on this forum should not touch real estate unless its very low leverage or they got enormous cash reserves, most of these investors are absolute dog ****.
What's your opinion on Dave Ramsey method for success, he mentions a lot its best to buy real estate property cash with no debt or as last resort 15yr mortgage, for most that are just starting out its almost impossible to have over a couple$ 100k to invest in real estate cash.
Dave Ramsey is... thinking of a nice way to say this... not someone I would listen to.
He was asked if he would accept $1,000,000,000 at a 0% interest rate and he said "No". When pressed, he followed up with "I don't want to be beholden to anyone".
That was that for me. I also had a girlfriend years ago who followed all of his advice, so only used a debit card. Because of this she had no credit score which was causing issues. I told her to ignore Dave Ramsey and get a CC and just be responsible. She listened to me and it worked wonders.
New to Real Estate · Dubuque, Dubuque Iowa · Member since 2026 · 35 posts · 18 votes
3d
Hey David. I am no expert, but I think you are missing his point. First off Dave is a Christian and the Bible is very clear in explaining God's opinion on debt. Debt is not a sin. That being said the Bible says "The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender." Scripture is trying to explain that debt can be very bad, it can get you in tough situations and essentially a slave. Freedom is a huge part of scripture and financial freedom is not something God strayed away from talking about. Secondly the whole no credit card thing is because most people are not wise and responsible with credit cards. They see it as free money and a way to get what they want and get it now. You and your past girlfriend are not his target audience. You guys are responsible with money and so yes his advice sounds foolish to you. So all Dave is saying is that he doesn't want to be a slave to the lender even if it means passing up on a billion dollars.
Rental Property Investor · Grand Prairie, TX · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
1mo
I was a DR guy when I bought my first two rentals 11 years ago. I paid them off aggressively and owned them out right within a year. I was so proud of myself for paying them off. That was the dumbest thing financially I could have done. lol. My CoC return was only around 5%. I'd be better off putting my money in the stock market. So after reading Rich Dad, I embraced the power of leverage and used the equity from these two properties and my primary home to scale up and buy more and more rentals. I now have 39 SFR and glad I stopped listening to Dave Ramsey. I'm a huge fan of good debt and my tenants are paying 8k/month of my debt off for me. I'll let them pay off all my debt while they pay me good monthly cash flow to use to buy more and more rentals.
Since it wasn't possible to pay cash for my real estate, I got loans. I got some good deals; low fixed rate on my 8 plex; owner financing on my 6-plex. I do pay extra off as cash flow allows. I used a HELOC on some of my real estate. My strategy is buy and hold and I am relentless when it comes to doing repairs, maintenance and improvements. I'm consistently adding value to my investments. I do pay down principle as much as I can and it's a good feeling to owe less as the value of the properties goes up. I love Dave Ramsey, but I have been borrowing money since I started my car wash business in 2006 and it was a necessary part of getting into business and owning the real estate ( not leasing a space).
Since it wasn't possible to pay cash for my real estate, I got loans. I got some good deals; low fixed rate on my 8 plex; owner financing on my 6-plex. I do pay extra off as cash flow allows. I used a HELOC on some of my real estate. My strategy is buy and hold and I am relentless when it comes to doing repairs, maintenance and improvements. I'm consistently adding value to my investments. I do pay down principle as much as I can and it's a good feeling to owe less as the value of the properties goes up. I love Dave Ramsey, but I have been borrowing money since I started my car wash business in 2006 and it was a necessary part of getting into business and owning the real estate ( not leasing a space).
Essentially, that is the way to go, but finding owner finance deals are a needle in a haystack, to get a low interest rate how much did you pay?
Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2019 · 42 posts · 9 votes
1mo
This is a big debate. I believe you need to use leverage to start. I also believe that you dont need 100 doors. I think if bought correctly 3-5 single family homes paid off can be life changing. So my strategy is simple today I have 12 rentals. My goals was to get to $20K month passively as quick as possible. So in AZ thats about 10-12 paid of rentals. I acquired those 12 ASAP. Now I am int he payoff phase. Might not be best return but I like the piece of mind and how simple the strategy is
Attorney · 10451 Mill Run Cir #755 Owings Mills, MD 21117 · Member since 2024 · 483 posts · 177 votes
1mo
Quote from @Jimmy Rojas:
What's your opinion on Dave Ramsey method for success, he mentions a lot its best to buy real estate property cash with no debt or as last resort 15yr mortgage, for most that are just starting out its almost impossible to have over a couple$ 100k to invest in real estate cash.
@Jimmy Rojas, one thing I’ve learned from working with investors is that I do not look at debt as simply “good” or “bad.” I look at the actual terms. A loan with a reasonable payment, fixed rate, enough reserves, and a clear payoff plan is very different from a loan with a balloon payment, personal guarantee, heavy prepayment penalty, or terms that put several properties at risk if one deal goes bad.
I’ve seen investors focus so much on how much they can borrow that they do not spend enough time asking what they are actually agreeing to. For me, the better question is not just “Should I use debt?” It is “What does this debt require from me if the property has a bad year?” That usually tells you a lot more about the real risk. I like that you are thinking through both sides instead of treating one strategy as the only right answer, and I’d be glad to stay connected.
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2024 · 28 posts · 34 votes
1mo
I think it depends not so much the terms and the rate of the debt, but rather the return that it makes you, and how stable your cash flow and reserves are with it.
I am heard an example that illustrates this; a business owner that wants to grow, and therefore needs to hire a new employee, does not say oh wow, it is so expensive to hire another employee, it adds 60 or 100K per year in payments that I have to make. Rather the business owner will ask, how much that extra employee will be able to bring in revenue to business, and if the it comfortably exceeds the cost, than it is still in a net gain for the business.
CPA, CFP®, PFS · FL · Member since 2017 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
1mo
Jimmy, I think the all-cash approach can be a very good fit for someone whose top priority is simplicity and low financial risk, but it is not the only responsible way to build a real estate portfolio.
For most newer investors, waiting until they can buy every property in cash may mean waiting years before getting started. I’d focus more on whether the debt is conservative and supported by the property, not whether debt exists at all.
If a rental still produces healthy cash flow after the mortgage, vacancy, repairs, CapEx, taxes, insurance, and management, reasonable leverage can help you preserve liquidity and avoid tying all your capital into one property. I'd rather see someone buy one well-underwritten property with adequate reserves than spend every dollar buying it in cash.
There is also a tax angle. Mortgage interest on debt properly tied to a rental can generally be part of the rental expense calculation, and depreciation is based on the property’s depreciable basis, not how much cash you put down. So paying cash does not create a larger depreciation deduction just because there is no loan.
For me, the better question is not “cash or debt?” It’s how much leverage can I use without putting the property or my personal finances under pressure?
Feel free to DM me. I’d be happy to send over a couple resources that might help you compare cash versus financing on a rental.
Rental Property Investor · Brandon, SD · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1mo
Dave Ramsay is not wrong - for the people he is marketing to. These are folks who have struggled with debt and need advice on how to get out from under that weight. Doubling down on that mentality is the problem - the belief that there is no good debt to have. But, for the majority of his followers, removing debt is good advice. These folks will probably never consider real estate investing anyway. Don't sweat it.
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
3w
Dave Ramsey teaches finance to the financially illiterate. Basically only folks with little to no financial common sense benefit from listening to him.
Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2w
Quote from @James Wise:
Dave Ramsey teaches finance to the financially illiterate. Basically only folks with little to no financial common sense benefit from listening to him.
I get where you’re coming from, Jimmy. For most people starting out, waiting until they have $100K+ in cash can keep them on the sidelines for years. I think the bigger issue is how the debt is used. If the deal has solid numbers, you’ve done your due diligence, have reserves, and the payment is manageable, financing can be a useful tool to get started while keeping some cash available for unexpected expenses.
I do want to eventualy get on teh REA investing train, i actually got approved on some offers i made but at the end i got cold feet and exited out, all these homes where below $300k, although its not best for real estate investment i think ill start small, Phx,Az , 2br condo, hoa -$240, $130k, $40k down, im 1099 so according to my brokers interest rate will be %7.99
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
3w
The Dave Ramsey method is designed to mitigate impulsivity, full-stop.
It has nothing to do with wealth generation, nothing at all.
It's singularly focused to mitigate against wealth destruction.
So in the lens of wealth generation, is anything Dave Ramsey "best"? Of course not, because that's not what it's designed for.
Can I pound in a nail with a frozen banana, sure I can, but by no means does it make frozen banana's the "best" way to pound in nails.
OPM, Other Peoples Money, is a fundamental wealth generator to Real Estate Investment. Which is to say securing control of a property via fractional capitol cost, and servicing it via tenants $.
BUT, it requires delayed gratification, discipline, strategy, effort, intelligence.
Buying all-cash is just a simplification.
Makes it simpler to not just operate, but also to LOOSE money.
When you hold operational debt, it forces you to know what the performance demand is.
When you "hack" that insight, it's exceptionally easy to, and far too often IS, under monetize that asset.
Which if your doing it all for a whopping whole 5% annualized return, or worse, why not just buy bonds?
Debt is the primary HOW to making $; in Real Estate Investing, in Business, in almost all investing.
Look at any chart of top companies in USA, any chart, Forbes 50, 100, 200, 500 etc. Pick out how many have $0 debt. None, not a 1. There is a reason for that.
So why would anyone think running a Housing Business would operate in some special exclusionary vortex of this Business fundamental?
Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3w
Quote from @Jimmy Rojas:
What's your opinion on Dave Ramsey method for success, he mentions a lot its best to buy real estate property cash with no debt or as last resort 15yr mortgage, for most that are just starting out its almost impossible to have over a couple$ 100k to invest in real estate cash.
I like Dave Ramsey but on this one he's just wrong. I take the opposite approach. I teach and practice buying houses "off market" from people who want to sell and let you take over their 4% loan. The reason why isn't rocket science and I give away a spreadsheet when requested to prove it.
We don't have infinite time. Time plays a role in buying cycles.
When house prices are going up faster than the rate you can save, you have few choices. But my 10% down at 4% interest taking over someone's 27 remaining years left on their mortgage makes more sense than a new mortgage with 20% down at 7% on a 30 year mortgage. It's simple. Do the math.
Thats a very good stragety, but how are you getting your leads on people that are distressed enough to sell or take over their low interest mortgage and is not even on the market, do you buy leads?