In looking for a wholesaling mentor, there are many things to consider and I don't know how to weigh the relative importance of different criteria - and I'm sure I've overlooked some items.
A few of the different items I"ve identified so far are their accessibility, what marketing costs to expect, what the profit split is vs. the cost of the mentoring, the mentoring contract itself, experences of past mentees, and whether the mentor has experience in my local market.
The websites usually seem quite promising about ones future lifestyle to come, but having paid for a couple of trainings in other real estate areas I"ve become a little more discriminating. There are very skilled wholesalers who market their mentoring abilities nationally and I also don't know how important current knowledge of the mentee's market is.
What might I be overlooking, and how important is local market knowledge or having the mentor have a financial state in each deal in order to sustain their attention and availability? I also have to be careful about being marketed to by marketing pros - been there, done that...... I confess.
If your prospective mentor is making so much money wholesaling, why is he or she selling programs? Most likely very expensive programs.
Once upon a time, my wife had a wine at a dinner out that she really liked. We grabbed the label, and I tried to find it at our local huge liquor store. They didn't have that specific label, but had many other similar ones. When I asked which was best, the lady replied "they're like chocolate chip cookies, each a little different, all delicious." But in this case I think I'd compare these programs to what comes out of the back end of a bull rather than chocolate chip cookies.
Sorry, but I am very negative on these programs. Real estate mentorships in general, but wholesaling in particular. They're selling you a dream. They make it sound easy. If you just pay them their money, you'll be rolling in dough and having a whole new lifestyle.
Wholesaling is hard. Really, really, really freaking hard. Before you plunk down $1000 on a course, let alone $10,000 on a mentorship program, just buy a list or sign up with one of the local companies that provides leads and start sending letters. Better yet, just go to real estate agent school, get your license and sign up with some brokerage. Its the same job.
If you're willing to really get out there and work the job (and, wholesaling is just a J.O.B., and a commissioned sales job at that, no matter what any guru tells you), the program doesn't really matter.
Burt - You said you've taken other training in other areas of real estate investing. What areas are those? Have you begun to invest already?
I'm just trying to assess where you are before offering my thoughts on how to proceed.
If your prospective mentor is making so much money wholesaling, why is he or she selling programs? Most likely very expensive programs.
Once upon a time, my wife had a wine at a dinner out that she really liked. We grabbed the label, and I tried to find it at our local huge liquor store. They didn't have that specific label, but had many other similar ones. When I asked which was best, the lady replied "they're like chocolate chip cookies, each a little different, all delicious." But in this case I think I'd compare these programs to what comes out of the back end of a bull rather than chocolate chip cookies.
Sorry, but I am very negative on these programs. Real estate mentorships in general, but wholesaling in particular. They're selling you a dream. They make it sound easy. If you just pay them their money, you'll be rolling in dough and having a whole new lifestyle.
Wholesaling is hard. Really, really, really freaking hard. Before you plunk down $1000 on a course, let alone $10,000 on a mentorship program, just buy a list or sign up with one of the local companies that provides leads and start sending letters. Better yet, just go to real estate agent school, get your license and sign up with some brokerage. Its the same job.
If you're willing to really get out there and work the job (and, wholesaling is just a J.O.B., and a commissioned sales job at that, no matter what any guru tells you), the program doesn't really matter.
Jon Holdman gave you a valuable dose of reality.
I have spent lots money on programs, bootcamps, CDs, DVDs, books, courses, etc. and I have learned a ton. The irony is I am very leery of recommending them for some of the very reasons Jon mentioned.
If I was confident you would bring me deals I would be happy to mentor you for free. I suspect many successful investors would. Go to your local real estate investing group and see if you can offer to trade your services for their knowledge.
I too have several thousand dollars of programs sitting on a shelf. I've listened to every one. Some had some kernels of good information. I feel like I actually got real value from exactly one of them, and that was mostly a bunch of contracts. That was Bill Bronchick's materials. Not specific to wholesaling, though.
Burt,
Like Jon said, wholesaling is a hard job. You have to bust your butt daily. The Guru will make it sound easy, but it is not. Best thing you can do for yourself is to pay a consultation fee to a real estate attorney. The attorney will tell you how to use the state regulated contracts and addemdums. This is what I did when I got started in wholesaling 5yrs ago. It cost me $250 to sit down with an attorney. The attorney will tell you what is legal and not legal. All states got different real estate laws and a guru will sell you programs that probably won't fly in your state. I am also with Jon when it comes to mentors, if you are earning so much money wholesaling when will you have time to teach thousands of students. They are just taking your money to buy more properties for themselves from selling their programs.
Here's my big issue with these programs, if my focus is building a guru program or mentor program then I am not focused on the market and how it's changing. I am constantly evaluating how my market is changing and how I need to adapt my wholesale business to stay ahead of my competition.
I wholesaled 57 properties in 2011 and am on track to do the same number this year. The way I acquire my deals has completely changed from how I did it in 2011 and I predict will completely change again in 2013.
I think most people will tell you this though, at the end of the day it doesn't matter how many courses you have taken or how many gurus you've talked with, it all comes down to you. There isn't some secret trick that only one guru knows or an easy way to wholesale.
Looks like I need to start writing books about how to identify potential profits of a property. But I hate "programs" with step by step instructions because they don't teach you to think.
There is nothing new in RE, there are ideas, but I suggest you strive to learn all aspects of real estate and your own ideas will come in a given situation. Every deal is different, that's the fun of it.....
I appreciate the replies provided. Wholesaling mentor programs do get a bad reputation, but fortunately I only need to find a single good one. An individual needs to perform their due diligence before forming any professional/contractual relationship and that is what I'm trying to accomplish in asking how I can best perform this on a wholesale mentoring program.
Of course, I'm also open to specific recommendations on these mentor programs. I read again and again that a person needs a mentor to move ahead and that the opportunity cost of taking the wrong actions, wheel reinvention, or not taking action usually far outweighs the cost of an effective program.
Joshua Dorkin - the courses I've taken haven't been related to wholesaling, but include John Schaub on rentals, Bill Bronchik on partnering, and Susan Lassiter-Lyons on joint venturing.
My previous investing career consisted of rentals - three-plex, duplex, single fam, mobile home. I had to sell all of them due to a mysterious disease that consumed my real estate resources in identifying and resolving it; I am starting over and lucky to be doing so. That issue has since been surgically resolved and I'm lucky to have had the equity to fall back on that I had. So I'm a real estate retread, and just as stuck as a newbie and know enough to know I need a mentor and a business plan thats not cash intensive beyond the marketing costs - which are still substantial.
Thus I'm doing my best to find a "Prince among the Frogs" and ask how to perform my due diligence on wholesale mentor programs, and for recommendations on any that have stood out for others. I know there are some poor ones out there, but I seek not to focus on that.
For the most part I agree with this. It does get easier with experience like most other things. Is it complicated? No. You can learn all the steps you need to take right here on BP (like I did 3 years ago).
For the most part, it seems like new folks get hung up in two areas:
1) Contracts and assignments....the Paper work. There are many great sources of info, including seeing a lawyer (as Timothy Rogers suggests) to help with this part. Thread after thread on BP.
2) Seller Negotiations. Just what do you say to the seller on the phone; in person? How do you handle objections? Saying the wrong thing has cost me deals. But I didn't really understand the problem until I started trying to coach someone else through the process. This is where having a coach (Mentor? I'm with J Scott- the 2 are not synonymous) really comes in handy.
So to answer your question, Burt L., no "program" is really going to help you with the fundamentals of dealing with people. This is a people business, and I think Ned Carey is spot on: find someone who can spend one on one time with you.
Burt,
What are you looking for in a mentor? Are you looking for a step-by-step guide on how to wholesale or looking for someone you can talk with and ask questions/get advice from?
If it's the latter, I honestly don't think you will find what you're looking for with any advertised program. I just don't truly think those "gurus" are in the trenches enough anymore, if they ever were.
I would suggest this, reach out to one of the many experienced wholesalers here on BP and make them an offer to help you as you get started. I don't think you would have a hard time finding someone who is proven to be successful and paying them a fee for a few months in order to pick their brain whenever you needed to.
1) You're confusing "finding a mentor" with "paying for a mentoring program". Finding a mentor means someone who's really doing the work and getting them to help you learn to do a job you want to do. Paying for a mentoring program sounds similar. Unfortunately the bulk of these programs appear to be more interested in separating people from their money than helping them learn a job. Any program that starts it pitch with "lifestyle" pictures almost certainly falls into that category. They're selling a dream.
2) Most of the people who say "the cost of your mistakes will outweigh the cost of a program" are the very same people who are selling the program. I've sat through a bunch of these programs and the story is the same every time. I swear, these people must go through some guru training program that gives them the scripts for their presentations.
In a mentoring program, I seek the one-on-one communication that takes one beyond the pages of printed materials. This is a people business and the typed page isn't so easy to convert to buyer and seller interactions. I seek the one-on-one that helps when within a deal, and how to market and get the deal.
It may be accurate that those have reached the level of an advertised program no longer have time for one-on-one communications and have moved to a businessplan of volume and are no longer actively "in the trenches". Robert Hanson points out that the methods used two years ago don't work in the current market.
I would like to be as strong a self-starter as Jerry Puckett who learned wholesaling largely from the forums, but I"m not as good as converting text to a cohesive and well-ordered plan. The forum works spectacularly well for specific questions, though I"m not so sure I can learn an occupation entirely from the threads/articles. I'll also likely lose some sellers by saying the wrong things and believe a mentor can help me funnel more deals through to completion.
About contacting an attorney -I do have access to an attorney who owns a local title company and has said he works with many buyers, if I can find the deals.
Jon Holdman points out that I'm confusing finding a mentor with paying for a mentor; it seems that mentors who receive payment are usually disqualified, which reminds me of a thread with M. Poe about altruism. I do admit to confusion on this.
I don't know that this post of mine adds much to the converation - other than to say I do seek the one-one-one piece as I don't think I can learn seller interactions entirely from text and that I'm am less concerned about the contractual side with buyers and seller.
A couple of wholesalers I"ve also considered are Michael Quarles (national) and Michael Jake (local). It sounds like there is more to consider and I"m open to suggestions, and would like to avoid getting caught in a crossfire about compensated mentors. It sounds like once the mentor advertises, they are no longer effective. I would like to rely on altruism, but in the heat of a deal when communication is important, I think it can work if the mentor is invested as well.
Burt L.,
The sad truth is, that the "in the trenches" guys who are slogging through it every single day don't need anything you have to offer. In fact, you'll be a distraction and a time waster. Worse, if you're talented, you'll end up a direct competitor. You have to be able to figure out a way to make it win win, where you're adding value to the equation, or what's the incentive? That is why people charge for their time.
Burt, I've been reading your posts for some time now. Honestly buddy, you seem to be suffering from analysis paralysis. Do what Jon suggested earlier. Take one step at a time. Get a list, send out a few letters, and see what happens. If you really just need a hand framing your plan, give me a call. Phone number is in the profile.
Burt,
You are trying to keep from making a mistake and you can't go about it like that. My first wholesale deal did not go smoothly as I wanted to in the marketing phase of the deal. I had three investors at the same time in the seller's home while the seller was there. I was honest with the seller from the beginning by telling the seller I was a wholesaler and that I work with several investors. The seller was fine with it, but the investors did not seem fine with being among other investors at the same time. It was learning it experience for me, but I did sell the home that night to one of the investors. I earned a $5000 assignment fee. I have not made that mistake again. You just got jump in and go get deals.
If you can get the knowledge down on how to write a contract and what addemums to use to protect yourself(see an RE attorney) then everything else for you will get easier for you as you do more deals. Don't be affraid of making a mistake, you can only learn from your mistakes.
My priorities when looking for the right mentor would be:
1. Where do they make the majority of their money from? You want to make sure they make a high % of their income from wholesaling, not from coaching.
2. How responsive are they?
3. What exactly do they offer in their program? What type of communication do you get with them and how frequently?
Sorry, did you say you made $1.6 million on your first deal?