2 Long-Distance Rentals with $0 Down with Tony Robinson

Ashley:
This is the Real Estate Rookie Show, number 10.

Tony:
Say that I’m great at my W2 job. And I climbed the corporate ladder and I’m just killing it. Once I’m gone, once I’m gone I can’t pass that onto my family. But with real estate, I can build this empire. I can have this machine and once I’m gone, I know that that’s going to keep giving and giving and giving to my family. And that’s a big piece for me too.

Ashley:
The big 10. I am Ashley Kehr and I am here with the assistant to the host Felipe Mejia and his little hula dancer on his microphone.

Felipe:
That’s right. I got my hula hula, man here. But yeah, finally 10 episodes. Wow. I can’t believe we’ve made it this far. People like us, I love it.

Ashley:
Yes, thank you everyone. And we love the Facebook group. It is growing, growing every day. We’re almost at 6,000, I believe.

Felipe:
Wild.

Ashley:
Yeah. So, today we have Tony Robinson on the show and we actually recorded this previously before coronavirus happened. And we reached out to Tony, but not a lot has changed for him. The same as Mallory and Lucas on episode eight, they said not a lot had changed for them either though. Tony talks about a deal that he rehabbed, rented out, and so far his tenant has been able to pay rent. And then he told us when we talked to him that he was undergoing a rehab right now, finished it ready to rent, but he can’t find anyone to rent it. And he’s considering dropping the price. Though, what do you think about that, leaf bag will be your strategy?

Felipe:
Yeah, I think it’s a good strategy. I think that tells a lot about him. I always tell my friends and family that, look, if we have to lower the rent to get people in the rooms or in the houses, then that’s fine. I drop my ego, rent the place out, we got to have some cash coming in. It’s better to do that than having nothing coming in. Having a vacant property is like the worst thing you can do. So yeah, absolutely. Get someone in there if you have to lower the rent. And then that you said that one thing that he is changing, is he used to only look for three bedroom homes but now he’s going to also look for two bedroom homes. But the lot has to be big enough for him to add that third bedroom. So, really smart of him and then also considering Section 8 property.

Felipe:
I think it’s really good and it says a lot about who he is. In the show, he also talks about some of the things that he’s had to overcome, things that happened in his past when he was younger.

Ashley:
Very inspiring. Yes.

Felipe:
Super inspiring. And then things that… even going on now. So, I think he’s got the grit. I think, Tony is going to be really good in real estate. It’s going to be a great show. I can’t wait to get into it.

Ashley:
Let’s bring Tony on the show. Hi Tony, welcome to the show.

Tony:
Thank you guys. Excited to be here.

Felipe:
Tony, thank you so much for joining us, man. Hey, really excited to get into your show. I was reading a little bit about your bio and all that fun stuff. I think we have a ton of information to cover. So, let’s just dive in man. Tell us a little bit about yourself, first of all.

Tony:
Yeah, when I’m not working in real estate, I’m a family man first. So, I’m engaged to my high school sweetheart. Actually, we’ve been dating for a while now.

Ashley:
Congratulations. That’s awesome.

Tony:
We’re getting married this year in Cabo San Lucas. We have a 12 year old son, when I’m not doing the real estate thing, they take up a ton of my time and I know we’ll get into it later, but they’re a big part of the reason why I’m driving so hard for this. When I’m out with them, I’m at work. I got a W2 job. I work in supply chain for an automotive company. That’s what I’m doing when I’m not focusing on real estate.

Ashley:
Good. That’s awesome.

Felipe:
What is your portfolio look like now, Tony? I mean, what do you have? And give us a 30,000 foot view, if you will, of-

Tony:
Yeah, sure. Two single family homes, both in Shreveport, Louisiana. I live in Southern California so it’s a few states away, but I’m really focusing now on trying to go into the larger multifamily space. So, that was my goal early on was to get into the larger apartment complexes. But too afraid to start there, wanting to pick up something smaller first. I cut my teeth on single family houses, now I’m trying to level up a little bit.

Ashley:
An out of state investor. Interesting.

Tony:
I am.

Ashley:
Because I’m trying to be one. What made you decide to do that?

Tony:
Living in California, it’s almost mandatory, for someone that’s trying to get started, the numbers just don’t make a whole ton of sense, especially in the single family space. I knew I needed to go somewhere where my dollar was stretched a little bit further. And my parents, my mom and my stepdad, they actually retired to this little town in Louisiana called Shreveport. And they bought a house out there for $30,000. It had been vacant for a few years. They put another 430,000 into it for the rehab and the house appraised for about a $100,000 once it was all set and done. And they’ve funded 100% of the purchase and the rehab with a local bank out there. Once I saw that, I was like, “Okay, here’s where I’m starting.”

Felipe:
This is where I’m going with that. That’s amazing. That’s interesting. I can’t wait to get into that because I want to hear more about the two properties. They’re out of state. I mean, those are your first. That’s wild. It’s going to be a great story. Before we get into that though, earlier you said they are my why. Let’s dig into that a little bit. Your family’s your why. We’d love to hear that story, man. What’s going on?

Tony:
Yeah, absolutely man. Unlike most parents, I got started parenting early. I was 16 when my son was born. I was a junior in high school. And becoming a parent at that age, at any age, but obviously at that age, it really has a big impact on how the rest of your life flows. Unlike most kids when they’re in college and they’re partying and doing the thing, I always had this very clear focus and goal that was driving me right in and it was my son who was my family.

Tony:
I feel like it helped me develop a certain level of grit and determination that I think a lot of people don’t get until later in life. And it’s paid dividends. But having my family there and knowing that I want to be able to drop my son off at school and pick him up. And my fiance and I want to go out and go on a vacation, we don’t have to worry about PTO or sick time or anything like that. So, really what’s driving me is just being able to spend time with them, be present for them. And make sure that financially where we’re always taking care of.

Felipe:
Interesting. And if I can dig into that a little bit more.

Tony:
Sure.

Felipe:
What helped you or why did you choose real estate as that avenue rather than anything else? Why did you pick real estate versus starting a business or doing anything else?

Tony:
Yeah, I will say that I’ve tried a ton of things. Real estate definitely wasn’t the first thing man. Like when I was in college I actually had a tutoring business where a mobile tutoring business where I had like three or four other tutors working for me were going all over town.

Ashley:
Wow.

Tony:
I’ve tried so many different things, but my dad is actually the guy that I can give the credit to for giving me the real estate bug. When I was in high school, he made me read Rich Dad Poor Dad. And it always stuck with me and I knew that at some point I wanted to get into real estate, just because it’s such a strong vehicle. But if we take a step back, when we look at what’s going on in the market right now with the coronavirus, the stock market’s going crazy. Stock prices are plummeting all over the place, but what the companies are doing and their performance isn’t any different than before coronavirus.

Tony:
There’s not a lot of influence you can have as an investor in the stock market. The lack of control pulled me away from the stock market. But when I look at real estate, I know that if I buy right and I invest my money into this property smartly, that I’m going to get a certain level of return. And I think that level of control, knowing that I’m the person that the dictates how successful this investment is, that’s what really pulled me into real estate.

Felipe:
Great answer. Great answer. That’s solid advice for anyone who is in the same situation. They need to listen to that part just because like you said, it’s something that you have control over and you’re able to help and you can control that for your family. And that resonates with me. I have a two-year old, so I know your son’s probably a little older than that. How fun? I have a two-year old and real estate has given me the freedom to be able to spend the time that I want with him.

Tony:
And if I can add on to that, Felipe, the other thing is if I say that I’m great at my W2 job, right? And I climbed the corporate ladder and I’m just killing it. Once I’m gone I can’t pass that onto my family. But with real estate, I can build this empire. I can have this machine and once I’m gone, I know that that’s going to keep giving and giving and giving to my family. And that’s a big piece for me too.

Felipe:
Gold. Love that.

Ashley:
Do you want to start telling us a little bit more about… So, you found the Louisiana market and then take us to the next stop. You’re like, “Okay, I saw what my parents did, I want to do that.” What did you do? Did you contact a realtor? How did that go?

Tony:
Yeah, absolutely. It happened in two phases. My first rental properties I bought last year in 2019 but I initially started on this journey in 2017. I started stopped and then picked it back up. So, I’ll take you back to 2017 really briefly. The first thing I did was connect with the bank. I had my parents tell me, “Hey, who the heck gave you this amazing loan?” And is this real? Can it happen again? I reached out to that bank, I got in contact with them. And this is a small regional bank.

Tony:
This isn’t Bank of America, this isn’t Wells Fargo, this is Home federal Bank in Shreveport and they have like three branches out there. And for the listeners, that’s like a golden spot to be at. Like if I have an issue with my loans, I don’t call the 1-800 number, I text the VP of the mortgage division at this bank. Anyway, built that relationship with her first, let her know what I was looking for. And she said, “Sure, this is a loan program that we offer.” And there are some requirements, the rehab and the purchase needs to be at about 72% of the rehab and she’s like, “As long as you can do that, we’ll fund 100% of it.”

Tony:
Once I had the guidelines in place, then it was just let me go find the deal. Luckily, the person at the bank had a good relationship with a realtor. So, she put me in contact with few different people and I just dove in from there. Now, back in 2017 when I first started, I actually found a deal. It was great. It was a short sale. It was way, way under priced. It was way under priced. I submitted my offer, the owner accepted and then it’s got to work its way through the make approvals and all that because it was short sale. Long story short, there was some miscommunication between the listing agent and my agent. Where the listing agent reached out to my agent, supposedly said, “Hey, bank has accepted, we need a response within 24 hours.” My agents said he never got that communication out of losing the property goes to auction.

Ashley:
Wow.

Tony:
Yeah. I was so super [crosstalk 00:10:07] but I was super [crosstalk 00:10:08].

Ashley:
And your first deal.

Tony:
My first deal, I’m like, this close. I ended up taking a break. And I let about two years go by and I have some things going on in my personal life. I end up buying my personal residence in California and I’m getting engaged so there’s all these other things happening. And then again, last year things have settled down a little bit. I was like, “Okay, I think now it’s time for me to get started here.” So, I reached back out to that same bank. I said, “Hey, it’s me again. Remember me?” Luckily, they still have that same loan program. I connect with a new realtor and I’m really just hitting the ground running.

Tony:
And I think the fact that I lost that deal early on, it showed me that that, “Hey, every deal is not going to go right from the beginning, but you can’t let it discourage you.” I think I went in with a different perspective and I really narrowed in on one specific zip code. I think before I was just all over the place and trying to find anything. But I said, “Hey, let me focus on this one zip code.” And the value of doing that is that I knew it like the back of my hand. I knew what the properties look like. I knew what they were going for. I knew the approximate rehab that I should be doing. So, I really dwelled in on one specific zip code.

Ashley:
Everyone listened to that tip because that can be so important. You zone in on one market and do your research and know that market. I talk to people looking at five different cities in different states and, “I’m looking at these ones right now.” Hold on one, do your market study. If that’s not going to work then go on to the next one. But when you try and look at all these different places, like you said, you’re not going to know it like the back of your hand. And that’s definitely going to help you when you run your numbers, you’re going to be able to do deal analysis faster. And because I don’t know about Louisiana, but for me at least when I want to put an offer in and pretty much has to be that day and I don’t have time to go and do a lot of research once I find the deal.

Felipe:
And to piggyback off of that, Ashley all of my rental properties are within five miles of each other, all of them. And it’s because I know that area like the back of my hand. So, the moment something comes to market within that little circle that I have, it’s like automatic putting in an offer. But if you tell me like 20 minutes down the road, I have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m like, “Nope, I got, there’s 500 homes that I can buy within five miles here. I’m buying them all.” So, yeah, just to piggyback. That’s exactly right. Know your market, that’s key.

Ashley:
And Tony, what made you pick that specific area code? Was it because it had a good school district? What were the specific things that you liked about that zip code?

Tony:
That’s a really good question. Shreveport as a city, it’s the third biggest Metro in Louisiana after New Orleans and Baton Rouge. It’s not a big market, but it’s not a small town either. And I say that because there’s different pockets in that city. You can go to some pockets where there’s gang violence and there’s prostitution and there’s all the things that come with a war zone neighborhood on. There’s others that are working class. What I wanted to do was try and find that sweet spot. Like, hey, where’s a good blue collar, strong working neighborhood, where the prices are competitive.

Tony:
I know that I can still turn a profit, but I also don’t want to be in a neighborhood where it’s going to be very management and sensitive and the quality of tenant maybe isn’t quite there. And I also wanted to make sure, because I was out of state, that I was investing in an area where the property managers would be able to support it. So, I had reached out to a bunch of property managers and I chose the one that I wanted. As I was narrowing down on my market, I asked him, I was like, “Hey, do you invest in or do you manage in this area?” And he said, “No.” All right, cool, that one’s off the list. What about this area? It was a working relationship with him and he pointed me in the right direction, say, “Here’s a good market for you.”

Felipe:
Tony, I’m starting to see a trend and we haven’t even got to the deal that we’re going to talk about yet, but I’m starting to see a trend almost like in your life since back when you were 16 where you had a baby early in your life, but you overcame that in a positive way and then you lost your first deal in real estate. And now it seems like you’ve overcome that in a positive way. So, it seems to be like there’s some grit in your life. And I think that’s why you’re probably going to be very successful because you’re overcoming these obstacles and as Rookie Investors that are listening to the show, hone in on that. Take, pride in, “Hey, it’s okay to make a mistake, but let’s get through that. Let’s get past that.”

Felipe:
You lost your deal, you took ownership, let’s go, let’s get the very next property and you’re making it work. I see that success in your life because you have that, I’m going to do this for my family mentality. What’s that quote? I know there’s a quote there somewhere where it’s like, “If you do it for yourself, you’re going to fail, but if you find a why you’re going to succeed.” I mean, just find your why.

Tony:
Yeah, and if I can add on to that, Felipe, I’m a big mindset guy. Like the real estate piece, it’s like 20% mechanics, 80% mentality. I’m super big on mentality piece and I can’t remember where I heard this. It might’ve been Brandon Turner, I don’t know if someone said this, but it’s like people have a tendency to give up when things get hard. They just want to give up.

Felipe:
Sure.

Tony:
And someone phrased it as, “How many chances do you give a baby to walk before you give up on them?”

Felipe:
Come on.

Tony:
It’s like, there’s no upper limit. The baby falls, you pick them back up and you hold their hand, they finally figure it out. And I’ve just really tried to hold that same mentality with everything that I do. It’s like I know for certain that I’m going to fail at some point, and that’s totally okay because the failures are where I learn, the failures are where I get better. And that’s the whole purpose of that first deal specifically is to learn. So, I went into it with that mindset.

Felipe:
The power of failing, but I’ll tell you what.

Ashley:
Yeah, it’s going to make you a better investor too because of it.

Tony:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And you guys, I’m sure know this as well. But the first deal… I have a podcast too. And I’ve interviewed dozens of people and not one person that I met or that I’ve interviewed has gotten rich off their first deal, not a single person. That’s not the purpose of that first deal. The purpose of that first deal as a new investor is to learn, is to educate yourself, is to give you the foundation to continue building your business.

Felipe:
That first property hits different man. It’s a learning experience. And I still remember my first property and I still use some of the tactics that I learned from it going forward. So, that’s a great story, Tony, by the way, let’s move on to the next section. Tony, let’s figure out and let’s talk about a deal and let’s dive deep into that. Do you have one in mind?

Tony:
Yeah, absolutely. We’ll talk about that first one because it’s a great one.

Felipe:
Awesome. So, let’s talk about that one. Give us the rundown, how you found it, financed it, get the nitty gritty out, get the details that you know our listeners are going to want.

Tony:
Damn, absolutely. So, in terms of finding the deal, it was on the MLS. The market that I’m in, it’s not a super heavy investor market, so there’s a lot of good deals still in MLS out there. Found on the MLS, told my realtor put in an offer and they accepted pretty quickly. I bought the property for $100,000 budget, $50,000 for the rehab. We have took about three and a half months or so. And right now it’s currently rented for $1,450.

Ashley:
How did you find your contractors for doing a big rehab like that?

Tony:
It was all relationship building. I knew being out of state that obviously I was going to be able to manage that in any capacity. And my realtor and my bank both suggested and referred the same contractor.

Ashley:
Cool.

Tony:
I was like, “Okay, the fact that it’s coming from two different people, there’s got to be something good there.”

Ashley:
So, referrals.

Tony:
Absolutely.

Felipe:
Was there any fear because you’re at a state and hiring a certain professional, do the work or just because everyone was pointing to that person? And how did you get over that hump?

Tony:
Was there any fear? I mean, I think there’s always a little bit of fear , buying that first rental property. But the way that I frame it is I work in supply chain at my W2 job, I know nothing about construction, so I’m not going to be able to provide a ton of value even if I was there. Even if I was in that same place, I can’t provide a ton of value. So, the fact that I can surround myself with people that do this for a living, I mean, it took away a lot of that fear because, hey this guy’s a professional, this is what he does every single day. And this is a learning experience for me so I can learn from him and figure out how to do this the next time.

Ashley:
That is a great point. I liked that, is even if you were there, you wouldn’t add much anyways because you could stop and maybe look at the property and see how the rehab is going, but a lot of contractors now or property managers, they’ll go and do the video walkthroughs for you. So, you don’t need to be there. But it’s not like you would be there swinging a hammer and helping out and taking money up the tab.

Tony:
Exactly. I had a FaceTime with the contractor, and he showed me around every couple of weeks just to give me an update and then that was good for me.

Felipe:
What was the outcome of that property? Where’s it at now? How’s it doing?

Tony:
Yeah. There’s actually a story behind that. I purchased the property, but I want to say it took a couple of weeks to get the rehab started because the contractor is working on another project. So, it took about three and a half months to get the rehab finished. Now, when I initially underwrote the property, I was underwriting the deal, I had $1,500 per month is the rent that I was targeting. I said, “Hey, I feel like I can confidently get this number.”

Ashley:
And how did you find that number?

Tony:
Just looking at the market. I was looking around and said, “This seems like a good number based on rentals that are comparable to what it is and I’m shooting for it.

Ashley:
Other ones that were listed on different websites?

Tony:
Sure. Looking at Zillow and I was like a Zillow feed. I was just on Zillow every single day, just “What’s the rent? What’s for sale?” I’ve been very familiar with the market? So, $1,500 was my number. And once the rehab finished, we pass the keys over from the contractor to the property manager. And I said, “Hey, I’m thinking of listing it at $1,500, what are your thoughts? And they said, “We think we can go higher. We think we can get $1,600.” So, I’m like, “Okay, , these guys are the experts. They know the market better than I do. Let’s list at $1,600.”

Tony:
We listed at six for two weeks and nothing. And I said, “Hey, I’m freaking out a little bit, it’s been two weeks, nothing’s happened.” So, we dropped it down to a 1575, another two weeks goes by, nothing. I’m like, “Guys, I think we’re a little too.” It ends up going for, I want to say it was eight weeks that the property sat on the market and guess what? We dropped it from 1600 to 1575 to 1550 to 1500 and I ended up finally getting it rented at 1450.

Tony:
Now, the lesson that I learned from that is, the property managers there they’re the experts. And I definitely want to lean on their expertise, but I knew in my heart the $1,500 was the number, but I still leaned on them at the 1600. And I think had I just stuck with my gut initially, it wouldn’t have sat as long as it did. There was a big lesson learned there for me as well.

Felipe:
I’ve had that feeling before as well, and I feel like, I can’t remember a time where listening to someone else versus my gut went the right way. Listening to that spirit feeling, if you will, has always yielded me the best return. And I can almost say that if you would have left it at that original number, that 1500 you probably would have got 1500. But sitting on the market, I bet people were like, “He’s going to keep going.”

Tony:
Something is wrong with him. The listing goes down. [crosstalk 00:20:38].

Ashley:
And that’s an important lesson right there that even though you were a brand new investor, it doesn’t mean that you’re wrong or you don’t know. These people, the property managers, yes, they have experience, but sometimes you just have to trust your gut and like you said, you did your market research, you looked at those comparable rents.

Tony:
I mean, and the property manager, sorry, they’re really quick. They’re also incentivized to have a higher rate. Obviously I am too-

Ashley:
Sure.

Tony:
But they’re not as negatively impacted by the vacancy. But for me that means I had to make another mortgage payment while the property was sitting empty. There’s some give and take there for sure.

Felipe:
Let’s talk a little bit about the rehab.

Tony:
Sure.

Felipe:
How did that go? Was it smooth sailing? Did you hit all your numbers, all your timelines? Did you just crush the job? Was it-

Tony:
Yes, it was-

Felipe:
No, that’s not how it went.

Tony:
There were some good things that I learned, there was some bad things that happened as well. I think the biggest thing that I learned, let me take a step back. The biggest problem was that there was lack of clarity on what the rehab was going to cost. So, again, I didn’t spend any money out of pocket for the rehab. The bank funded 100% of that. But as I was working with the bank, trying to get the funding secured, we had given them multiple bids on the rehab portion. We had one bid at 40,000 and we had a second bid of 50,000. And that was me working with the contractor trying figure out what we wanted to do.

Tony:
I was under the impression that when we entered into the loan that we were operating under the $40,000 bid. But once we get to the end of the loan, and the rehab is done, I realized that had gone up to the $50,000 bid. And this is without me realizing that. So confusing. The way that the loan payouts work is that I’m not involved at all. All the contractor has to do is go to the bank and show them, “Hey, here’s the work that I did.” And then they get their withdrawal.

Ashley:
it’s almost like a construction loan. When you build a new house, they get their draws.

Tony:
Right. But I wasn’t involved in the draw process at all. The bit that I saw, I thought that the work was being done was only going to be $40,000 but it ended up being $50,000. That was a learning experience for me, that there needs to be some clarity and a tighter communication between me, the contractor and the bank about, “Hey, which bit are we actually going to use?” Because the goal is to refinance this property, but now I’m $10,000 higher than what I was bargaining for. That was something that I learned. But some other issues that we saw with the rehab was that it took longer than expected. And that’s every first investors problem.

Tony:
I think the first thing that I would have done is I would oppress the contractor to get started sooner. The property sat empty for a few weeks while he was finishing up some other jobs. And I would have been like, “Hey, I can’t sit that long next time.” I got to start as soon as I get the keys. So that was a big thing for me as well. Outside of those two things, there weren’t any other really, really big issues for me.

Felipe:
Interesting, Tony, because the $10,000 over is new to me. Here in Tennessee, the investor and the contractor have to sign off for him to go get a withdrawal. It’s not like he can just go draw without my consent. So, that’s interesting. I didn’t know that, that wasn’t allowed. I wonder what regulations there is there to stop them from just going and getting more to draw without your permission. I mean, it seems really open.

Tony:
The way that it’s structured is the bank says, “Here’s the money for the purchase.” And then that’s cut on day one. And then, “Here’s the money that’s leftover for the loan.” When the loan got funded, I was under the assumption that there was some cushion in there for contingencies and things like that, but the number was so high because that was actually what the whole bid was. So yeah, there’s no me signing off on the loan or anything for the contractor to get their withdrawal because I signed all those documents at the beginning.

Felipe:
Was there a limit on how much he could withdrawal?

Tony:
There was, yeah, there was, there was an upper limit there.

Felipe:
And he was trying to get to that.

Tony:
There was some lessons there. And I think honestly, it wasn’t him trying to be manipulative in any way. There’s just honestly, he thought like, “Hey, this was the bit I was supposed to be working under.” So, really on me for not driving that in details.

Ashley:
Tony, can you just explain to everyone what a draw is? Like how does that work with the financing you’re getting?

Tony:
Yeah, absolutely. The bank has a copy of the bid the contractor gave me, and the lists of all the work that he’s supposed to be doing. And it’s broken up into sections. I want to say there were four draws for this specific loan. The contractor would do, a fourth of the bid, they go to the bank and say, “Hey, here’s the work that I did. The banks then sends someone out to review that, everything’s good and they get their draw. And then it just keeps working that way until they’ve completed the job.

Ashley:
Okay. It’s like a line of credit. The bank has this money set up for you and then the contractor will go and they did $10,000 worth of work, they’ll take that draw of the money and then until the project is done and they’ve drawn out the full amount of the rehab cost. Is that correct?

Tony:
Yap. That’s it.

Ashley:
Yeah, cool.

Felipe:
Tony, how would you do that specific part differently for our listeners? What is the nugget that you took from that? And what have you implemented going forward?

Tony:
Yeah, so I think the first thing is making sure that no draws happened without my knowledge. Because just so I can be tied in to that process and make sure that everything’s how it’s supposed to be. And then the second thing is like, it’s totally on me, because the fact that I was FaceTiming the contractor and seeing the work that was being done. And it never clicked to me like, “Hey, this is more than what I thought it was going to be.” It’s because I didn’t take enough time to really deep dive that bid to know it backwards and forth and say, “Hey, here’s what we’re supposed to be done.”

Tony:
I really make sure now that I’ve got a really solid understanding of that bid and what work we’re agreeing on to make sure that as we’re checking that everything’s lining up. But like Felipe, I was just so excited to get that first deal. I was like, “Let’s go, let’s go, let’s go, let’s go.” I didn’t even really take the time to pay close enough attention to everything.

Felipe:
Do you care to show or to share the numbers after? Did you refi out what you wanted? Did it work out for you in the end?

Tony:
Yeah, so it was a construction loan and they had a really tight timeline on it. I think I could only have that construction on for like four months. So, as soon as the construction finished, refinance to a permanent loan. I didn’t pull any cash out. I just left it straight to pay off the construction loan. But my plan is to refinance and try and pull some equity out six months from now.

Ashley:
So, you did that with the same bank that you did the construction loan, the purchase rehab with, and then once that loan is done, it’s completed, you just rolled it over with the same bank?

Tony:
Yeah.

Ashley:
Okay, cool.

Felipe:
One of the things that I do, and I know this show isn’t about me, but let me give you some word advice that I do with my contract because I pride myself on how well I handle my contractors.

Ashley:
Sure.

Felipe:
One of the things that I do is while we’re doing the walkthrough and they’re giving me scope of work, we identify where 33.3% of the job is, and once he reaches that scale, he can do a draw. So, now I don’t actually have to go to the bank when he wants to do a draw, but my bank knows that at this point. But let’s say dry walls up, everything’s muddied and sanded, that’s 33.3%, he can go receive that amount out. We structure that prior to even signing a contract. It’s like, “Hey bud, these are the three times you’re going to get paid. There’s no advances, there’s no material advance. There’s none of this. You get paid after 33.3% of the job is done. And then I will see you basically at the very end.” I get pictures every now and then I go down to the job. But that way there’s a structure in place.

Tony:
Got it. I love that. I got to add that to my toolkit, man. That’s a good one. That’s a good one.

Ashley:
That has been a very common question in our Facebook group is how to handle contractors during rehab. So, I’m glad you jumped in and said that Felipe.

Felipe:
No, yeah, absolutely. And then Tony, I’m assuming now you have it rented out. It’s doing great. Give us what’s going on with it live today.

Tony:
I have a military family in there. They actually ended up signing a two-year lease and I was a little hesitant to sign that two-year lease at first because I was like, “Hey, that limits my ability to raise the rents.” But it comes back to knowing your market. Shreveport is not really an appreciating or quickly appreciating market. Rents, don’t move up. In California when I was renting, my rent will go up like $50 every year. But in Shreveport it’ll say flat. I was talking with the property manager that said, “Hey, you’re probably not going to see a big bump even if you only have a one year lease. So, if you can lock them in for two years, it makes more sense for you.” So, great family, they’re in the military, they’re really good people. It’s going pretty well right now.

Ashley:
Now, for a two-year lease, did you give them a discount at all or it’s just the flat rate for both two years, no decrease for doing a two-year?

Tony:
Flat rate for the whole two years. They had asked for it, but I said, “Hey, I’m already coming down for what I was targeting.” And they were understandable. So, it worked out well for both of us.

Felipe:
I love those kinds of properties. Actually, Tony, I love the idea of just flat, not sexy, cashflow every single month. To me that’s safe. Two years guaranteed. If I could get two-year leases on every single one of my properties, I’d be in Bora Bora every two weeks. I mean, it’s not having to worry about getting new tenants, you don’t ever want to feel that gut feeling that you had where you were like, “Oh my gosh, I don’t have tenants for two or three months.” That affects your cashflow, affects your bottom line.

Tony:
Right. That’s the biggest expense. It is the vacancy. If you can do anything to minimize that, to eliminate it then it makes tenant sense.

Ashley:
And Tony, I don’t know if you said already, what kind of houses? Is this single family? How many bedrooms, bathrooms?

Tony:
Sorry, I just dove right in. Someone may think that that guy didn’t care.

Ashley:
I know. I love the numbers part.

Tony:
It is a single family home. It’s three bedroom, two bath. It was built like in 1950 something and a lady had owned it. She ended up passing away, unfortunately, so her kids had inherited the home and it had not been updated since the home was built. There was pink tile and this really weird carpet and it was, exactly what you think of when you think of 1950. So, we went in and we pretty much got it the whole house. It’s beautiful now, but yeah, three bedroom, two bath, great neighborhood.

Ashley:
Okay, so now that you’ve got the people in there, I just want to like go over the numbers again and put it all together. Your purchase price was a $100,000, your rehab was 50,000 and then what did it appraise for?

Tony:
$230,000.

Ashley:
Yeah, that is awesome.

Felipe:
Nice.

Ashley:
And then for your rent was $1,350 or $1,450?

Tony:
$1,450.

Ashley:
And so, what’s your cashflow? That’s what we all want to know.

Felipe:
I didn’t want to be the one to ask.

Tony:
The mortgage payment with taxes and everything, it’s about $800. That’s the PITI. And then since the house is pretty much brand new, I’m budgeting a little bit for maintenance, but I’m sure I will need to put a whole lot into it because it’s all new. And then the property management is another a hundred dollars a month. So, I’m conservatively saying about $200 a month in cash, but it’s probably a little bit more because I won’t need as much set aside for expenses.

Felipe:
Now, for property management, is that a flat fee or a percentage that you’re paying?

Tony:
Yeah, they have a percentage, but they cap it at $100 per door. So, it actually works out really well. So yeah, it’s a flat $100 for this property.

Felipe:
As you add more properties, are you going to negotiate with them to say, “Hey, I’m going to plan on bringing you guys X amount of doors. Can we negotiate that price?” Everything’s negotiable in real estate.

Tony:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s the goal. And they’re a really solid company and I told them when I met them. I flew out there to Louisiana so I can meet all these people. And when I met them in person, I said, “Hey, this is the first property but it’s the first of many. And the goal here is that we have a longterm growing relationship.” And so, I set that to an upfront for a week we had to say, “Hey, it’s not the one house but it’s 20, it’s 50.” And there were open to that.

Felipe:
Start building that relationship. Yeah, that’s that’s exactly right. You keep that open line of communication, you express your goals to them, and it even keeps you accountable. To like, “Okay I need to get more property because I’m telling people that that’s what I’m going to do.” So, it keeps you going.

Tony:
Absolutely.

Felipe:
For our listeners there, Tony, can you give us an explanation of how if I bought you coffee and I said, “Hey, Tony, let me buy you coffee, man. Can you give me four or five steps to get a property just like yours?” How would you explain that to them? How could they do that?

Tony:
Yeah, that is a great question. I think the first thing I would say is, “Don’t overthink it.” That’s the thing that gets most people caught up as they get stuck in this analysis paralysis where they want to hit all these specific numbers and everything’s got to line up perfectly, but it’s never going to happen that way. At least in the first year, I haven’t met anyone that had the perfect first deal. Something always goes a little wrong, right? So, I think that’s the first thing I would say is don’t overthink it. Expect to make some mistakes. The mindset is where you got to start first, expect to make some mistakes.

Tony:
And from there it’s really just find a market that you’re comfortable in. Start building your team, really get to know that market intimately, and then start putting in offers. But it’s really, really that simple. The thing that I always say is that real estate is not a complicated business. It really isn’t. The actual steps that people need to take to close on that first deal, it’s not all that hard or it’s not all that complicated. But what it isn’t is that it isn’t easy. It is hard. It does take a lot of work to do those things, but the actual steps you need to take, they’re not that complicated. So, Felipe, I’d say, get your mindset right first, go into it with the right perspective, then find your market, build your team and get the deal.

Ashley:
Now, that you got your first property there, you know that market and you have two properties. Correct?

Tony:
Sure.

Ashley:
So, you bought your second property. Now, what’s the goal for the future? What does that look like? Are you buying one a month or one a year?

Tony:
Yeah. I actually bought those two, like relatively close to each other. I wanted to get those both finished before I jumped into the next one. I’m going to continue investing in Shreveport on the single family side, just because the loan product is so attractive. It’s like I want to milk that as much as I can. But when I started investing in real estate, I knew that my goal was to get into larger multifamily apartment complexes. And I read a book by Joe Fairless, I remember what that book was called. I think it was the best ever apartment’s indication book. And he said, “Before you can invest or successfully invest in apartments, you need a track record.” And I didn’t have one.

Tony:
I had never bought anything before. So, I said, “Hey, let me start building that track record. Let me get a few single family homes just to build my knowledge and build my credibility. And then from there I’ll scale up.” That’s the goal right now. Keep milking the cash cow that I have in Louisiana but scale up to start buying some larger properties.

Felipe:
That’s interesting because for me, Tony, I just stuck to boring, normal. I just did the process that you bought one and then two, I just didn’t stop. I just kept going, I just bought seven and then number eight and I was like, “Hey, this is $600 a month seems nice. I’m just going to keep doing this boring. Just like you said, I think people overcomplicate real estate sometimes. They’re like, get into this analysis paralysis and I knew business cards that I need LLCs and I need the right lawyer and I need my team.

Felipe:
And then three years went by and you didn’t do anything and then prices are twice as high. If you would have just bought a rental property, figured it out, it’s going to be okay. Guys, it’s okay to get a lot of these things in place. It’s important, but there’s nothing more important than buying that property. Get involved, get in the game.

Tony:
And that’s the biggest thing, just get off the sidelines. And everything else will work itself in, it’ll work itself out.

Felipe:
Exactly.

Ashley:
Yeah. I loved your story about how you did this deal and you’re giving such mindset tips too. And I mean, it seems like everything you’ve learned and everything is adding so much value to you. But I want to know, is there a specific person that has really been a key player in getting you this first deal and we call this segment the-

Felipe:
MVP, MVP, MVP.

Tony:
Man, a key person. Gosh, let me think on that right there. There’s so many different people that I interacted with to actually get that first deal done. But I would probably say my dad. And him giving me that Rich Dad Poor Dad book back when I was like 15, 14 years old because that’s planted the seed for me. And I think had I not read that book as a teenager, I’d never would have found Bigger Pockets. And I never would have found all of these other resources that helped me get that first deal. So, everyone else was only in my life because of that decision that my dad made to preach real estate to me early on.

Ashley:
And how soon is it going to be before your son gets that book for a gift for his birthday?

Tony:
I haven’t given him the book yet, but we play the cashflow game. We play that game so he’s learned the concepts. So, he loves it. I’m trying to teach the game.

Ashley:
We can link this stuff for you guys in the show notes at biggerpockets.com/rookieshen but that will link the cashflow game and the Rich Dad Poor Dad book because those are great resources and it’s a very… have you listened to other real estate podcasts where they ask like Brandon and David’s podcast, they ask what’s your favorite book? Rich Dad Poor Dad is a very common answer.

Tony:
Absolutely.

Ashley:
As the reason why people get started or thought about real estate.

Tony:
Absolutely.

Felipe:
Okay, so we hear that answer all the time, Rich Dad Poor Dad. What was your biggest takeaway from Rich Dad Poor Dad?

Tony:
Your money should be working harder than you all the time. Money is the absolute best employee that you can have. And smart, wealthy people have found a way to put their money to work. Whereas the average American, they work, they spend all their money on liabilities, whereas the rich people, they work, they spend all their money on assets, which increases their cashflow.

Ashley:
Okay, great. I want to ask real quick too about, so the bank that you’re using would a loan officer, you think be a good MVP for someone going forward? Because I thought you were going to say something about the bank, for going because they really did have such a great package for you and it seems like it’s going well if you keep working with them. Do you think a loan officer could be someone’s MVP?

Tony:
Absolutely. And I think for people that are in the single family space, going to Bank of America doesn’t make a whole ton of sense. As an investor, honestly, I would rather have a relationship where I can call that person and have a real dialogue and they know me and I know their kids and they know my family. That relationship is so much more valuable. I just read as a new investor, someone who’s trying to get, building a relationship with that small regional bank is critical.

Felipe:
Piggybacking on that, I agree. I know my loan officer pretty well. And I love that we can have honest and real conversations where I come in, she gives me a hug. I mean, I know her personally and I get to shout out to Regina here at Franklin Synergy Bank in Nashville. She is amazing.

Ashley:
She’s going to be too busy to return your calls Felipe.

Felipe:
Oh God, take that part out. No, it’s great relationship building. I didn’t know the importance of that until, I got started in real estate and how crucial that was too, to not always look for what can I get out of a person, but what value can I add to them? And that’s going to keep me in their mind at all times, especially when I do need something. Don’t just reach out to people when you need something, add value to them and then when you are in need of some help, they’re going to be like, “Man, I want to give back to this person. This person has been great for me.”

Tony:
And Felipe, if I can add on to that. For people that want to invest out of state, fly out there, you have to go meet these people in person. It’s one thing to exchange emails and phone calls, but to actually go out there like you said, to share a hug, to share a meal. Those are the things that really allow you to build that connection, to build that relationship so that as you further that relationship, you guys have a really, really solid foundation.

Ashley:
Okay, so I’m going to make you the MVP of this show now. We call this the Rookie request line and you are going to answer a question for a rookie. So, if anyone would like to call in anytime, you can call 1-888-5-rookie and leave a voicemail for us and just ask a question and we might play it on an episode. So, this week we have a question from-

John:
Hi, my name is John, I’m from Buffalo, New York and I’m looking to invest out of state and I wanted to know what is the best way to get boots on the ground in that area? Do I hire a realtor, a property management company, or trying to find a local investor in that area? Thanks, bye.

Tony:
That’s a great question. I think if you have someone that’s family or that you have a personal relationship with, that’s a great place to start. And assuming that they’re interested in real estate. You guys can work something out, but if not, I mean, yeah, all those people that they listed, the property managers is huge. The realtor is huge. Just go out there and start building those relationships because all of those people are willing to work with you and be part of your team. Even though we’re paying them, they can still be part of your team.

Tony:
I think sometimes people forget that, when I think about building their team, they think about boots on the ground with someone that they have a relationship with. But your property manager realtor can play that role as well.

Ashley:
Okay. Great. And actually we’ve loved the advice. You have that we are giving you two questions.

Tony:
Got it.

Ashley:
A little bonus round here.

Tony:
Perfect.

Tony:
Hi there Rookie World, my name is Tony. I’ve been in a dilemma, currently, I have a job that I don’t really love but I make decent money. Don’t necessarily see myself there forever anyway. If I were to quit, how could I use that time but still also get lending. My wife has a decent job also, we could use her income, but we really, really want to just be able to do it. Her name and my name if we were to have to do it on our own.

Tony:
Man, that’s a heavy question. Let’s see. I mean, for me, I don’t think that, and I’m going to try and answer from my perspective, I don’t think that I would quit my job. I think at that point you put a little bit too much pressure on yourself to start generating income. And I think that pressure can lead to poor business decisions. I think the thing that I would do is use that fuel of me not enjoying my job to drive me to work even harder to my real estate business. I think I would challenge Tony on the fact that maybe he doesn’t have time.

Tony:
I have a W2 job. And I have an organization of over 500 people that I lead spread out across the nation. I’m working nonstop. I have a family, I have my own podcast where I put out three episodes a week. I’m investing in real… So I think I would challenge his notion that he doesn’t have enough on time. Tony, how much TV are you watching? How much time are you scrolling through Instagram and Facebook? We all have the same 24 hours. Elon Musk is running like four different companies right now and he still finds a way to get it all done. So, I think we can do that. Tony, my advice to you is find a way to manage your time a little bit better, to dedicate your time a little bit better and just use that fuel that you’re not enjoying your job to really drive you to take some massive action.

Felipe:
I love that answer because I get that question all the time as well. It’s like, “Hey Felipe, I don’t have the time to do it or should I quit my W2 job to do that?” And usually I… Or they say they hate their W2 job and I always tell them, I’m like, “If you hate your W2 job, it’s because you don’t have a reason to be there.” When you find out how much you can leverage your W2 job from the bank to get more loans, to get more properties, you all of a sudden really start liking your W2 job. If you really love real estate, you’re going to leverage that W2 job towards real estate.

Tony:
And Felipe, if I can add onto that, I’ve interviewed guests on my show where, yeah, maybe they weren’t happy in their W2 job. They went and found a job that was related to real estate. So, they became-

Felipe:
There you go.

Tony:
They got a job at a construction company or they became a realtor, or they became a property manager. So, there’s ways that you can shift your W2 job to support your real estate goals as well.

Felipe:
Great answer.

Ashley:
I have to agree with that because that’s what I did. I didn’t know that I wanted to go down the real estate path, but I was working at an accounting firm, hated it, quit and started working as a property manager, and that’s how I got into real estate and on Bigger Pockets. On the forums I started talking with, it was probably six or eight months ago, this guy in his twenties and just saying he wanted to get into real estate and he was ready to take massive action. So, he quit his steady W2 job at a big public accounting firm and went and worked as an accountant for an investor.

Ashley:
And I actually got to meet him for the first time last night and he has a duplex and looking for more deals and it was just really exciting to see that, but he did it without quitting his job. And it’s a lot easier too, to get bank financing when you have that W2 income coming in.

Felipe:
Absolutely.

Ashley:
But how you said the time blocking and not everyone has, sorry, everyone has the same 24 hours in a day. That is so great.

Felipe:
I started on a construction site and hated every minute of it until I started seeing how I could leverage that towards real estate. I was like, “Man, I don’t have any connections in real estate though. All I know is drywall guys, construction guys, electricians and flooring installers.” And then, one of my investors was like, “Dude, are you an idiot? That’s exactly what you need. You know these people, you understand, you speak their language.” Here’s the money going. They’re like, “We’re having trouble finding contractors and you’re having lunch with them every single day.”And I was like, “Oh my gosh, it is.” As you said earlier, mindset, mindset. What are you leveraging the people around you.

Tony:
Absolutely. And if I can add onto that, because you mentioned network and I know that a lot of people that are looking to get started in real estate, they feel that they might be doing this on an island, where they’re not surrounded, they don’t know people who are investing or they don’t know people that are successfully doing this. That’s totally okay. Most people start that way. But you have to be diligent and going out there and building that network. Go to meetups, get on bigger pockets, go to conferences. I love real estate conferences. Those are some of the best experiences I’ve ever had.

Tony:
Being in a room with hundreds of other people that also talking about real estate. Go out there to start meeting people and you’ll be so positively overwhelmed with the amount of support you get from those kinds of relationships.

Ashley:
Are you going to Bigger Pockets Conference for year 2020?

Felipe:
Exactly, are you coming?

Tony:
Absolutely, count me in.

Ashley:
Yay, good.

Tony:
Count me in.

Felipe:
So, excited for that.

Ashley:
At New Orleans, this year, Bigger Pockets 2020.

Felipe:
Definitely, going to let… I’m excited about the food. I can’t wait to go eat some of that, man. Yours sounds good.

Ashley:
If you guys want to join us, you can find out more information at biggerpockets.com/conference2020. You’ll find the link with all the info in there and you can meet Tony.

Felipe:
That’s right. Come hang out with us guys. I would be super excited to have you with us. All right, Tony, let’s wrap this up a little bit, we do have a couple of fun questions that we’d like to ask you. We ask all our guests these towards the end. Is this something you’re ready for? Are you excited?

Tony:
Yeah, absolutely man. Let’s get into it.

Felipe:
Okay, awesome. My first question is going to be what’s the highest high that you’ve experienced in real estate so far?

Tony:
Ooh, the highest high, I think it was the first time I saw the money come in. Honestly, that first payment and I’ve got to set up with my property manager. It was like this electronic payments. I get that email that the direct deposit hit. I’m like, “Man, this is actually a thing.” I was like, “It does work.”

Felipe:
It was nice to get paid versus going the other way around, right?

Tony:
Right.

Felipe:
Finally, one coming in.

Tony:
Yeah, man. I shared that with my son, with my fiance and said, “Hey, here’s what all the hard work is coming out. It’s there”

Ashley:
What is your favorite app or online tool or even piece of technology that you can’t live without?

Tony:
Ooh, online tool or piece of technology. That’s a good one. You know what? I would say Bigger Pockets, honestly. And this isn’t just because I’m on the podcast. I mean, it truly is a great resource. I’ve connected with so many different people on both online and in person and it’s just been such a wealth of information for me. And I think like so many new investors, you read Rich Dad Poor Dad, then you go on Google real estate and you find Bigger Pockets. And then you go down this whole-

Ashley:
The rabbit hole of all this information.

Tony:
And that’s where it started for me. So, I think Bigger Pockets has been pretty critical for me. I think, moving forward as my business starts to scale, I would probably say that I think my email. I feel like I’m connecting with so many different investors and scaling into the multifamily spaces, it really is a team sport, so you have to know a lot of different people. I think really just being on top of email and building relationships, it’s pretty big for me right now to.

Ashley:
Awesome, awesome.

Felipe:
I love that email. I don’t think I’ve heard that one yet. But I think sometimes we do forget the power of email and just reaching out to people. It’s a great way to communicate with somebody quickly and answer questions. So, yeah, email is great. My next question would be, Tony and aside from Rich Dad Poor Dad because that’s what we always get, but I’m actually interested, I get this vibe from you that maybe you’re a reader, that you read a lot and that you do a lot of research. So, what are your top three books aside from Rich Dad Poor Dad? what are your top books that you love, man?

Tony:
Top three books, The Five Love Languages. That is one of my absolute favorite books.

Felipe:
Interesting.

Tony:
It has absolutely nothing to do with business. It’s nothing to do with real estate but all about relationships. So, that’s a big one for me. There’s a second one called Crucial Conversations. That book is, again not a business book, but it’s a relationship book. And any time that you’re dealing in high pressure conversations, that’s a book that I always fall back on. And then the third one that I really, really enjoy is a Good To Great, it’s a business book. Jim Collins I think was the author, but it talks about how a lot of these businesses that were doing really good made the leaps are great.

Tony:
That one’s a big one for me. And I know you said three, but I’m going to give you a fourth thing as well because I love this one too. It’s called The Multipliers. I can’t remember who the author is, but it’s a book about how high level leaders bring out the genius in people that they’re leading. And I feel like in business and in real estate, you have to be able to find the genius in other people and leverage that to the best of their ability. So, that’s a big one for me too.

Ashley:
I love those recommendations.

Felipe:
I haven’t heard of that one. I just looked it up. I think it’s Liz Wiseman. Does that sound right?

Tony:
Yep, that’s the one. That’s the one.

Felipe:
Yeah. Okay. I’m going to add that one for sure to my notes here. Go ahead, Ashley. What question do you got?

Ashley:
This question is a little bit of Rookie hazing. Well, you want to know what song is your guilty pleasure song and can you sing a little bit of that for us?

Tony:
You know what? I’m actually a big Taylor Swift fan and I call her Tswizzy.

Ashley:
Stop.

Tony:
I think-

Ashley:
Pick a song.

Felipe:
Pick a song, bro.

Ashley:
Which one of her songs really compliments your voice?

Tony:
Ooh, I don’t know. I got the baritone voice. I don’t know if any of her songs matches mine, but there’s that one song that goes, woo hoo woo hoo. I don’t even remember the words.

Ashley:
[inaudible 00:50:56].

Tony:
That’s all I know.

Felipe:
Man, you had me in the building, bro. Keep going. That was great.

Ashley:
We were sat back.

Tony:
There we go, there we go.

Felipe:
Tony, where can people find out more about you, bro?

Tony:
Yeah, absolutely. I’ve got a podcast, it’s called The Your First Real Estate Investment Podcast. You guys can go over to yourfirstrealestateinvestment.com/itunes that’ll take you straight there. Same thing, trying to help people that are getting or they want to get started. The premise of that show is I interview people just about their first deal. We go super, super deep on that first deal. Give them all the ins and outs. So, I drop episodes every Monday, Wednesday and Friday so people are in, so they can go there. And if you want to find out more about what we’re doing on the apartment investing side, you can get head over to alphageekcapital.com. That’s Alpha Geek Capital I know super funny name, but we figured it stand out a little bit and you can learn more about we’re doing the multifamily side.

Ashley:
And like you said, you’re working full time and still investing and you got all this side stuff going on too. That’s awesome. So yeah, I think our listeners would be great for your show to come listen to. Everyone head over and hit subscribe.

Tony:
Absolutely.

Ashley:
And we’ll link everything in the show notes. If you guys want to go to biggerpockets.com/rookie10, we’ll link all of the great value that Tony has provided us today. But thank you so much for hanging out with us today.

Tony:
Absolutely guys, I’m super thrilled to be here. Super glad that Bigger Pockets is doing this and I know it’s going to fill a void in the marketplace. There’s a lot of people that want to hear this content.

Ashley:
I’m Ashley on Instagram at Wealth From Rentals and he’s Felipe on Instagram @Felipemejia R-E-I. And don’t forget to get active in our Facebook group. So, just search Real Estate Rookie and you’ll be to join our group, but check it out and I’ll guarantee you can learn something new. Thanks for joining us.

Felipe:
Tony, thanks for being on the show, man. A true pleasure, true honor, man. Love what you’re doing. Keep crushing it, especially for our kids.

Tony:
Awesome brother. Appreciate it. Thank you guys.