New Investors: Get Educated or not?

New Investors: Get Educated or not?

Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

Hello! David Dachtera here.

This post is going to be a bit unpopular on Bigger Pockets because it's about education - Real Estate Investing education. The site as a whole has rather a strong sentiment against paying for education. In fact, this V2 of this post.

To some degree, that's understandable. Thanks to the many ads we've all seen on TV, and what lies behind them, Real Estate Investing education has rather a bad reputation. It's generally considered VASTLY overpriced and it's also considered to over-promise and under-deliver.

In fact, the thought which inspired me to write this post came from watching part of a "guru" ad on TV. He's talking about fixing and flipping which, in the current seller's market, is a bit more challenging than it has been. If that's one's primary - or only - strategy, seeking properties to fit one's strategy is equally challenging, whereas if one knows multiple strategies one can approach a property and be able to determine which strategy, if any, would be most suitable. After all, not every property can be done profitably.

Of course, education is about more than real estate investing, and that's where the "gurus" fall short. It's also about the kind of education none of us gets in the school system: entrepreneurial education, business education (beyond Wall Street, that is) and, of course, financial education.

Of those, financial education is probably the most important.

Now, you should know at this point that I am a student of a paid education program. Just wanted to make that disclosure.

One can scan these blogs and discussions and find lots of examples of those who are experiencing challenges which could have been avoided thru a modicum of financial and investing education.

Some folks post about not being able to get another mortgage because lenders say they already have too many in their own name.

Some folks post about needing to find funding for their deals because they lack the resources on their own.

Some folks post about deals where the costs have mounted up to a point beyond the profit they calculated from the deal.

Some folks post about being overwhelmed by the reporting, accounting and bookkeeping demands of their real estate business.

Some folks post about how a deal went sour and they lost a good chunk of change.

Now, you can learn how to deal with all of these through the experiences themselves and from the experiences of others. Not the fastest or most economical method of learning, but certainly effective over time and there's no up-front expense.

Then again, how much money can you afford to not spend?

"What's that?", you may say. "How can I lose money by not spending it?"

Can you lose $50,000 or more on a deal gone bad? Of course you can! Easily, if you have not yet learned how to avoid it.

Can you make mistakes in the course of a deal that may lead to penalties or even serious charges? Of course you can! Easily, and some of those mistakes can lead to penalties on a par with some felonies. Even just posting "bandit signs" in the wrong place can get you some fairly stiff fines.

Can you - and your partners! - lose your property or properties in a lawsuit, even your own and your family's personal possessions like your home, your vehicles, tools, bank accounts, and more? Of course you can! Easily. We unfortunately live in a society where litigation is viewed as a source of windfall profits.

So, the choice to go forward and do-it-yourself without advanced education is a personal choice. It is a serious choice and needs to be considered carefully.

Weigh the risks compared to the benefits:

  • Learn to avoid common, simple mistakes and the penalties to which they can lead, some of which can be severe.
  • Learn to protect your possessions and assets from lawsuits and liabilities.
  • Learn to select the investing strategy appropriate to a property - even if the only appropriate strategy is to move on to the next property - rather than limiting your property choices to those suitable for the strategy(-ies) you know.
  • Learn how to make your real estate investing a business which runs without you, even when you're sick or taking a well-earned vacation.
  • Learn to make your real estate business profitable and how to keep more of your earnings rather than lose them to taxes thru missed deductions and other financial missteps.
  • Learn how to turn your real estate business into an inheritable legacy for your loved ones.

Real Estate Investing Education isn't just about doing deals.

It's about finance, business and entrepreneurship as well. It's about being a well rounded business owner, a successful entrepreneur and a happier leader of your team and head of your family.

Educated investors have so much more to offer to the members of Bigger Pockets than just the results of their own experiences, also. Something else to consider.

Again, getting educated is a personal choice. "Choose wisely, grasshopper!"

We'll talk again!

Take care - be well!

Much Success!

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
11y

Education is essential for any business, not just real estate.  But, when it comes to real estate, here are a few other guidelines that I like to consider, based on my experience having talked to hundreds (thousands) of up-and-coming investors who have considered or have actually invested in paid coaching:

- First and foremost, as @Bill Gulley likes to point out, focus on the types of education that can be provided by accredited sources.  Check out your local community college for courses on real estate law, finance, entrepreneurship, marketing, branding, etc.  Take a real estate licensing class (whether you get your real estate license or not -- which I think you should).  Sit down with local attorneys, tax professionals, brokers, etc. and ask lots of questions.  Too often, paid educators focus on "systems" -- but real estate isn't about a system, it's about running a business.  And just like any business, you need to understand all aspects of business to be successful; you won't be successful just by following someone else's system or blueprint.

- When paying for coaching, focus on local education, not national education. State laws vary greatly, and real estate is a local business. Someone in Texas isn't going to be able to be an optimal source of real estate education in New York.

- Focus on educators who are confident enough in their ability to educate that they don't charge large upfront non-refundable fees. The good ones will either provide money back guarantees or "pay as you go" fees that you can stop if you're not satisfied.

- Don't bother with paid education until you figure out what type of real estate you want to do, and have done your own research. A lot of educators will try to tell YOU what strategy to be using, but that's typically because it's the strategy they use. Figure out the strategy you want to employ (flipping, notes, buy-and-hold, lease options, wholesaling, etc) and then find a coach or mentor who specializes in that type of investing.

- Know the difference between mentoring and coaching. Which do you want? Which do you need? What do you expect?

-  Don't assume that a big price tag means better education.  In my experience, a big price tag means larger scale education business, which means the best educators in the organization are farmed out over dozens or hundreds of students.  That means that, statistically speaking, you'll likely not be coached by the best educators in the organization, as they just won't have the time with all the students.  As an example, I've mentored a half-dozen students (completely free) over the years and they've collectively done over 150 deals at this point with 100% success rate.  Just proves that paid isn't necessarily better than free; and certainly, higher cost isn't necessarily better than lower cost. 

-  Consider that certain types of real estate investing are going to be more suitable for paid coaching simply because they are less common strategies and/or they are higher priced investments and/or they are inherently more risky types of investments.  For example, I'd much sooner pay to learn notes, lease options or apartment investing than I would to learn flipping, wholesaling or buy-and-hold.

-  Have a paid coach you're considering?  Do a Google search (and BP search) and see what turns up.  You'd be surprised what a little bit of due diligence can provide.  In fact, there are lots of well-respected and successful folks here on BP who do coaching on the side and who many of us would wholeheartedly recommend.

All that said, here is my best tips for getting started in this business...these are the 10 steps you should take BEFORE considering spending money on a coach or mentor:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2014/06/0...

See this reply in the discussion

42 Replies

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  • Professional · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Thank you for the post.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y

    David, while I felt I was getting an under the radar sales pitch to some program, to the points you made I must agree. 

    I don't think anyone here is really opposed to paying for an education, I paid and suffered through college and grad school, RE school, professional seminars and government schools,  the issue is as you pointed out, the cost and the quality of the education.

    And, you're right again, regardless of what business you're in, you need to educate yourself in business areas, business law, accounting, finance, marketing and a bit of economics will take you much further than someone who just assumes they know and strikes off with guru ideas.

    As I've been saying, learn RE before you attempt to deal in RE.  :)

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y

    Well written Dave. education in itself is incredibly important. Finance, Real estate law,  Fair housing law, accounting etc. All are incredibly important things to learn.

    Problem I see with a lot of the real estate education out there right now is the price is extremely high and what they are selling is a lot of pipe dreams.

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

    David, while I felt I was getting an under the radar sales pitch to some program, to the points you made I must agree. 

    I don't think anyone here is really opposed to paying for an education, I paid and suffered through college and grad school, RE school, professional seminars and government schools,  the issue is as you pointed out, the cost and the quality of the education.

    And, you're right again, regardless of what business you're in, you need to educate yourself in business areas, business law, accounting, finance, marketing and a bit of economics will take you much further than someone who just assumes they know and strikes off with guru ideas.

    As I've been saying, learn RE before you attempt to deal in RE.  :)

    Thanx, Bill! Your last line there might even have made a better title for my post.

  • Investor · Parrish, FL · Member since 2015 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    I truly feel that to be a successful business owner/ entrepreneur and to stay on top of your industry, you have to educate yourself way before you enter your industry. Once you start your business I also feel to continue to be successfu, you have to always continue your education along with continuing your teams education. I really think it's about taking ownership in your company and also giving your team the tools they need to function at their top level. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:

    Well written Dave. education in itself is incredibly important. Finance, Real estate law,  Fair housing law, accounting etc. All are incredibly important things to learn.

    Problem I see with a lot of the real estate education out there right now is the price is extremely high and what they are selling is a lot of pipe dreams.

    Thanx much for the acknowledgement. Much appreciated.

    The prices do indeed seem high. Even the program in which I enrolled was a healthy chunk. Still, if you look around at the colleges and universities the cost per credit hour multiplied by the hours for which one might enroll for a single year of college can easily exceed even the sum that I paid.

  • Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
    11y

    You can not buy common sense, curiosity and having the ba**s to take action.  These are the pieces in my real estate puzzle that have created my success.

    Working for an employer for many years can cap, brainwash, control and drive fear into almost anyone.  Pull out of this sabotage and come back to being creative like when we were a child.  We overcome this and we all will be successful and rich.


    Frank 

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
    Originally posted by @James Wise:

    Well written Dave. education in itself is incredibly important. Finance, Real estate law,  Fair housing law, accounting etc. All are incredibly important things to learn.

    Problem I see with a lot of the real estate education out there right now is the price is extremely high and what they are selling is a lot of pipe dreams.

    Thanx much for the acknowledgement. Much appreciated.

    The prices do indeed seem high. Even the program in which I enrolled was a healthy chunk. Still, if you look around at the colleges and universities the cost per credit hour multiplied by the hours for which one might enroll for single year of college can easily exceed even the sum that I paid.

     What did you pay if you don't mind disclosing?

    For the record I also think a lot of kids are wasting a lot of money on college. All one needs to do is go into a starbucks and talk to the many baristas with psychology degrees to know that the money was not well spent.

    Again I want to stress that I am not anti education. I am anti education if people are getting it for the sake of getting it. College and other education is great if one has a plan to implement the skills and knowledge they learned from that education into a successful career or business venture.

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:

     What did you pay if you don't mind disclosing?

     I sent you an e-mail privately to stay within the forum guidelines.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    11y

    Education is essential for any business, not just real estate.  But, when it comes to real estate, here are a few other guidelines that I like to consider, based on my experience having talked to hundreds (thousands) of up-and-coming investors who have considered or have actually invested in paid coaching:

    - First and foremost, as @Bill Gulley likes to point out, focus on the types of education that can be provided by accredited sources.  Check out your local community college for courses on real estate law, finance, entrepreneurship, marketing, branding, etc.  Take a real estate licensing class (whether you get your real estate license or not -- which I think you should).  Sit down with local attorneys, tax professionals, brokers, etc. and ask lots of questions.  Too often, paid educators focus on "systems" -- but real estate isn't about a system, it's about running a business.  And just like any business, you need to understand all aspects of business to be successful; you won't be successful just by following someone else's system or blueprint.

    - When paying for coaching, focus on local education, not national education. State laws vary greatly, and real estate is a local business. Someone in Texas isn't going to be able to be an optimal source of real estate education in New York.

    - Focus on educators who are confident enough in their ability to educate that they don't charge large upfront non-refundable fees. The good ones will either provide money back guarantees or "pay as you go" fees that you can stop if you're not satisfied.

    - Don't bother with paid education until you figure out what type of real estate you want to do, and have done your own research. A lot of educators will try to tell YOU what strategy to be using, but that's typically because it's the strategy they use. Figure out the strategy you want to employ (flipping, notes, buy-and-hold, lease options, wholesaling, etc) and then find a coach or mentor who specializes in that type of investing.

    - Know the difference between mentoring and coaching. Which do you want? Which do you need? What do you expect?

    -  Don't assume that a big price tag means better education.  In my experience, a big price tag means larger scale education business, which means the best educators in the organization are farmed out over dozens or hundreds of students.  That means that, statistically speaking, you'll likely not be coached by the best educators in the organization, as they just won't have the time with all the students.  As an example, I've mentored a half-dozen students (completely free) over the years and they've collectively done over 150 deals at this point with 100% success rate.  Just proves that paid isn't necessarily better than free; and certainly, higher cost isn't necessarily better than lower cost. 

    -  Consider that certain types of real estate investing are going to be more suitable for paid coaching simply because they are less common strategies and/or they are higher priced investments and/or they are inherently more risky types of investments.  For example, I'd much sooner pay to learn notes, lease options or apartment investing than I would to learn flipping, wholesaling or buy-and-hold.

    -  Have a paid coach you're considering?  Do a Google search (and BP search) and see what turns up.  You'd be surprised what a little bit of due diligence can provide.  In fact, there are lots of well-respected and successful folks here on BP who do coaching on the side and who many of us would wholeheartedly recommend.

    All that said, here is my best tips for getting started in this business...these are the 10 steps you should take BEFORE considering spending money on a coach or mentor:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2014/06/0...

  • Investor · Aiken, SC · Member since 2014 · 398 posts · 120 votes
    11y

    Thanks for the post @David Dachtera. I believe that an education in any field is invaluable. No one would drive a car with out getting some instruction first. I also did a course on REI, although it was more of a nation wide program it was well worth my time, and marginally worth the money that I had spent. I feel that if I hadn't taken the course that I would have spent that much or more in mistakes, and the program helped me realize some of the mistakes that I had made up to that point, only having two rentals at the time.

    I would personally recommend that people get their education in which ever aspect of REI that they want to focus in through multiple different sources. Books, BP, mentors and the like. I feel that most "guru's" out there are just in the business of up-selling their programs & not actually in the business of educating investors.

    The biggest thing I got out of my course, besides how to analyze a deal, was what I didn't know.  Discovering what I didn't was invaluable.  That knowledge of my lack of knowledge pointed me in the direction of what I needed to learn and enabled me to start to fill in the gaps.

    By no means am I where I need to be, but I feel that I am on the right track now.  Thanks again for the thoughts.  Education is priceless, but it doesn't have to come from a guru or be expensive.

  • Real Estate Investor · Lake Worth, FL · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 6 votes
    11y

    I really need to thank you all for this insight. As a newbie, I have been wrestling with the idea of paying for a "complete" education, but the price-tag is really high. However, the pros of getting an education are very appealing. I have joined several REI groups in my area, but can't seem to find a local mentor, so perhaps paying for education, coaching, and mentoring all at the same time is worthwhile.

  • Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2014 · 755 posts · 462 votes
    11y

    Is your Guru doing the business?

    Is your Guru familiar with your Market?

    Is your Guru familiar with your particular strategy?

    Is your Guru successful in the business?

    Or is it just a motivational speech with a couple of RE stories thrown in?

    (you'll probably get your money's worth at the free ones)

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    11y

    I used to have agents many years ago. I got rid of all of them. No drive and they waste my time.

    I believe in my situation I would require a non-refundable deposit from them. 25,000 upfront on  a 50/50 split thereafter. So if their first commercial real estate deal closed was 50,000 commission they would get the credit for the 25,000 already paid.

    This is why many HML lenders require money down. It's the same non-refundable in that if the investor walks away they lose the money. No skin in the game and when the going gets tough most will quit.

    I can't tell you over the years how many have called me and I have spent time with them to be fired up for one week and then quit because they say " It is too much work ." All of them say it will be different this time and I will be the one who does it all. They want the success but do not want to earn it. They want the get rich quick fairy dust that everyone blows around selling their "can't lose" courses.

    My demands on time has become really valuable. I understand some people start with nothing and need a break but I think they would do well working for someone to learn the ropes. At least then the person training them is getting something tangible benefits other than a false promise to perform.

    I agree that national courses do not offer the "specific area data" that is critical to closing deals.

    I have specifically chosen not to offer courses  because people want a lot for very valuable information and specific knowledge for very little in return. I am happy doing my own investments, helping commercial clients one on one, and doing some syndicating in the future.  

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 1 post · 1 vote
    11y

    Great advice @David Dachtera! I will piggy back on comments made by @J Scott

    I am in new to REI and the $99 REI class taught at local college is the best investment I have made. These classes are available across the country and some are available online. If you are on a budget check out REI books from your local library. The big tax and consulting firms publish information that you can download from their websites to help you understand the real estate market. All free for the price of you email address.

    Before you spend a lot of money that you don't have, please check out the local community college in your area and see what is available before you pay a guru five cents. Gurus have bright shiny objects, but all business requires education, persistence and discipline. Otherwise just play the lottery.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y

    Folks, as @J Scott pointed out, you need to do your due diligence before signing up for any program. If you don't personally know of someone follow that outline. A college course won't need much investigation beyond the material to be taught, any course that has a state certification for licensing, you can be assured there isn't any flim flam stuff. 

    As Jason mentioned, identify what you'd like to do. Not so easy to do, for you to evaluate a niche you need to evaluate your market, to do that you'll need to understand the basics of real estate. Without understanding your market, economic drivers in the community, supply and demand, growth and declining areas, valuation methods and common practices, you can't really choose the best niche, you'll be guessing and may well fail after spending your money chasing pipe dreams. Identify what you'd like to do after you understand the basics so that you can make an informed decision. No out of town guru, mentor, coach or instructor can tell you what is hot in your market, you have to identify that hot market. 

    I've been looking for good educational materials, free or at a reasonable price, beyond government or professional organizations' sites I'm not finding much out there. And, it's pretty boring stuff, HUD, ALTA, AIA, building regulations, Fannie Mae, FDIC, etc.

    When I say "reasonable price" I don't mean what is reasonable for me I mean reasonable for the young family guy with responsibilities working an hourly job just making ends meet. I also compare the costs to the services available, an RE school for agents seems to be in the $300-400 range. Any average person can pass through those doors, read on BP and ask questions, understand the basic deals to be had and hit the streets to make money! Since RE text books are about 500+ pages and full of what you really need to know or be aware of to make money, the gurus will have to meet and exceed that threshold for the price.......and I'm sure they don't. What much of it is will be marketing spin, rather than good red meat! Ideas can be valuable, but mastering the basics should give you plenty of ideas of your own, there are no secrets in real estate. 

    As Jason mentioned, price really doesn't indicate the value of information, if you make that mistake in judgment, you'll get taken most likely.   

    Edited, BTW, know that many colleges or schools allow meeting or classrooms to be used by the public or organizations without any affiliation to the school, just because a class is held at your local college doesn't ensure the content being taught is correct.

    As to REI, I've read enough in the forums to understand how these "classes" may be carried on, REI is not an accredited body, it's a money making franchise. I understand that many of the guru types speak at these meetings, pitch or no pitch, it's still promotional. Some may be good, I really doubt they all are.

    One more comment, those selling materials saying they are just paying it back, or because they like helping others to learn or they just want to share with you.......total horsefeathers. A college professor teaches because they enjoy doing it but they also get paid, they aren't there for free. Follow the money! IMO, If someone is still in their prime working career, not retired, it has to be about the money, no one is going to abandon their productive years to do something because they love you and want to see you succeed. I'm long retired, my suggestion here are absolutely free, but if I had to start a school, I'd have to charge something, no one can pay for things to teach you, but I can afford to do so pretty darn cheap. No, I'm not opening a school, just saying, a real education isn't free.     :)

  • Mesa, AZ · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    @David Dachtera great post. i just recently attended a 3 day RE workshop during which 'team leaders' pitched various levels of mentorship programs, which I'm guessing is somehow what led you to your RE education? I'm curious of any details about cost and levels of 'aftercare' if any you were provided with after attending any paid classes you'd be willing to give? if you could shoot me an email id appreciate it greatly, i did not go forward with any paid training as i wasn't sure how fast they'd turn and run w my cash. i am however looking for education into RE anywhere i can find it. I'm interested in wholesaling and getting into rentals.

    thanks,

    Jesse 

  • Mesa, AZ · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    11y
  • Realtor · NW Suburbs of Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 156 posts · 62 votes
    11y

    This is a great thread, and I admit the benefits of a great REI education are many, and it's critical to have...though I think we all agree on the multiple ways of attaining that education. I'll admit to still be very new, but the free education here on BP combined with my mentorship relationship and exposure is definitely setting me in the right direction...!

    Grateful for this BP community every single day! :)

  • Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2014 · 722 posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @David Dachtera and the rest of the people on this thread.  I am not exaggerating when I say that David's post is one of the most intelligent and best thought-out posts I have ever seen on this site.  And the rest of the contributors have all contributed thoughtfully.  It is so much appreciated!  Thank you everyone.  I learned a lot on this post!

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @David Dachtera:

    This post is going to be a bit unpopular on Bigger Pockets because it's about education - Real Estate Investing education. The site as a whole has rather a strong sentiment against paying for education. In fact, this V2 of this post.


    Btw, I thought the above comment was interesting...

    I've never seen any indication that the BiggerPockets community is against education.  On the contrary, this is by-far the largest community of real estate investors on the planet who believe in and support education.  In fact, this is probably the largest repository of real estate information and education in the world.

    As you can also see from the responses, nobody here is against paying for education.  What most people here are against is OVERPAYING for education.  Overpaying is a relative term, btw -- I wouldn't pay most real estate gurus anything, as I believe the information they provide would make me a WORSE investor; but, there are a couple people here on BP who I'd happily pay hundreds of dollars per hour for consulting.

    Again, the key is that you are receiving the value for what you are paying.  And most of us are against paying more than the value received...

    David - I'm curious why you believe BP is against education...or even paid education?

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Books to Consider when learning real estate investing

    I like new people to first learn basics of what a real estate agent knows even if they do not take they exam, even if they are buy and hold.

    See

    https://vimeo.com/album/3419631

    Then build a business, whether it be wholesaling, rehabbing, sub2, lease options, wraps, multis, apartments, etc.

    Subjects include: Appraisal, Finance, Property Management, Title-Escrow, Private Money, Deal Making, etc.

  • Investor · North Richland Hills, TX · Member since 2011 · 789 posts · 403 votes
    11y

    You will pay for you education...one way or another... I paid mine from experience....experience is the most expensive education by the way...

    If I wanted to learn to fly a plane..I wouldn't read a forum or a few books...I'd get a mentor...nuff said...

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @John Jackson:

    If I wanted to learn to fly a plane..I wouldn't read a forum or a few books...I'd get a mentor...nuff said...

    As someone who used to fly airplanes, I agree.  I'd also add that if they had the kinds of gurus in the pilot training world that they have in the real estate world, you'd see lots more airplanes crashing on a daily basis.

    I would actually suggest that my checklist from earlier in this thread applies to flying too:

    - First and foremost, start with accredited sources, not just some guy who says, "I'm the most successful pilot in the world -- come to my free weekend seminar and I'll teach you how to fly as well!"  In fact, start with your local college and learn the basics before you pay to get into a cockpit.

    - Flying is very local.  Just like in real estate, flying in the Bay Area, Washington, DC or NYC is going to be very different than flying in some small midwest town.  Find a local coach.

    - Don't pay a lot of money upfront to learn to fly.  Pay as you go, on an hourly basis.  That way, if you decide flying isn't for you, you don't spend more money than you got value for.

    - Pick up a textbook on flying and do some research before you start paying $250/hour for lessons.  Figure out what kind of aircraft you want to fly, and find an instructor who specializes in that type of aircraft.

    - Know whether you want a coach or mentor and what you expect from that person.  If you think you're looking for a flying mentor, who don't understand the difference well enough. 

    - Don't spend ridiculous amounts of money to learn to fly.  Most accredited trainers charge about the same amount, and if one of them tells you that you need to spend more money (they'll tell you that flying is risky!!!), don't listen to them.  Just like real estate, flying isn't very risky if you study, practice and are careful.

    - Have a pilot trainer that you want to use?  Do your due diligence and check him out thoroughly.  Talk to his former students.  If you find ANY former students who were unhappy, go somewhere else.

  • Investor/Landlord · Farmington Hills, MI · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    I've taken a few paid courses to learn techniques new to me or to get familiar enough to recognize an opportunity if it presents. Some of those have lead me to deals that returned far more than the courses cost. I even paid ~$1,500 once for a course which I thought would be of limited use. The purchase itself was a good exercise for me. I was at the point where I was already collecting $50k-$100k annually in rent but even though I had little hesitation spending $100K to buy a new property I found it difficult to spend money on things on which I didn't see a definite return. Basically, I was too cheap. Anyway, I was at a weekend seminar. My wife had never attended one with me before and she was available for the third day. She came and was getting a bit excited by the pitch of the guru (she had never seen the pattern of the pitch which was already quite familiar to me). I asked her if she wanted to buy the course--she said yes and I did so without dwelling on the purchase as was usual for me. I knew I could afford it and it wasn't going to hurt me financially if it was worthless. As it turns out it wasn't worthless. The course had several good ideas but, as I suspected, most of it didn't suit me or wouldn't be helpful in my business. However, just by listening to it in the car a couple times through I became more familiar with terms and concepts and, perhaps, a bit more receptive to my next deal. It certainly wasn't the best $1,500 I have ever spent but I have never regretted spending it.

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