42k and rents at 850 a month??? ...am I missing something here?

42k and rents at 850 a month??? ...am I missing something here?

Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2009 · 456 posts · 123 votes

I'm new to all of this so if I am missing something obvious, sorry.

I have been lurking and reading some threads, trying to absorb as much information as I can. I came across this and I don't understand:

http://www.biggerpockets.com/properties/1797

The price is 42,500. So, even if you bought it at the asking price without trying to barter, and put 10% down, a 15-yr mortgage on the remaining 38,250 at 8% (a bad rate as I understand; I am purposefully trying to assess this as a 'worst case scenario' to make sure it is profitable even if the loan doesn't come out as well as planned)

That means payments are 365.54/month + 149.42 taxes + I have no idea how much for insurance. According to that ad, which of course may not be reliable, the house rents for 850 and is in move-in condition.

850 - 365.54 - 149.42 = 335.04/month profit (minus whatever other expenses I may be missing here.)

If you go back and change that mortgage to a 30yr, at 7%, your monthly payment drops to 254.48, so your profit rises to 446.10/month (again, minus whatever additional expenses I am missing).

Not a ton of cash but not a ton of work either, and presumably the value of the property increases with time and you build up equity in it without ever paying the mortgage yourself.

So why is this such a deal and why hasn't someone grabbed it already? Am I missing something? I was originally considering trying to buy a house (for myself, to live in, not an investment) this fall but now that I am seeing such cheap rentable homes in areas like buffalo, I am thinking about staying in my current apartment for another year or two and picking up as much property as I can be approved for loans to purchase. Am I diving into shallow water?

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  • Real Estate Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2009 · 21 posts · 2 votes
    17y

    There's a big difference between scheduled rent and actual rent received. Difficult areas always have higher rents v. property value, because collecting the rent is part of what makes difficult areas difficult.

    It's no fun to invest in areas where you need a 7 iron to collect rent. Much easier to reduce your expectations and have them mail it to you (pick a better area with better clients).

  • Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2009 · 456 posts · 123 votes
    17y

    are you saying the area this home is located in is a "difficult area" ? Also couldn't this be avoided by careful screening of potential rentors, and a good lease agreement? If they don't pay I can throw them out (eventually), right?

  • Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2008 · 62 posts · 14 votes
    17y

    Make sure it is not in a war zone. In this market there are a lot of opportunities like that. I missed out on a triplex in a good neighborhood this week that brought in $1300/month and the asking price as $25k. You're not always missing something. There are a lot of investors out there, but there a lot more deals than investors right now.

  • Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2009 · 456 posts · 123 votes
    17y

    haha define warzone

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Payson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Corey, I'm by no means a buy/hold expert like Jon or MikeO are. However that looks like a really nice house!!

    I'm sure Jon and or MikeO will come on here and give their .02 but if I had any interest in NY I would take a good look at that property, granted that is you can/could get financing for it

    and to re-touch on your real question as far as why no has touched it, I'm curious as well how many deals are actually done here on BP like that. I would like to start throwing up some of my own deals to attract any possible buyers but it just doesn't seem like there is any money trading hands here, of course I can and probably am further from the truth

  • Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2009 · 456 posts · 123 votes
    17y

    Well, I qualify for close to 200k for a mortgage so I am assuming that I could get 40k for an investment property without any issues. (Or, hopefully, 2 or 3 small mortgages around 40-50k each.) I make 50k on the books and I pay my bills, I'm just a little young so I don't have say, 10-15 years of credit history.

    My first response in looking at this house was to think, if it is such a great deal why is she selling it rather than renting it out herself?

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Payson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    I believe her contact info is on her profile, I would ask her that question.

    at least check into it, it would be nice to see a deal posted in the success topic regarding properties listed right here on BP

  • Real Estate Investor · CA · Member since 2009 · 36 posts · 2 votes
    17y

    I'm new at this as well, but this deal isn't as great as it seems. You have included any expenses at all in your analysis. Insurance, Property management (unless you do it yourself), vacancy rate, repairs & maintenance - just to name a few.

    Look into the 50%/2% rule on this website. A lot of the buy and hold investors push this rule and the more I learn about it, the more it's a great estimation of expenses especially for analysis of a deal.

  • Contractor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2008 · 183 posts · 17 votes
    17y

    Corey I agree its worth talking to the seller about that prop.

    I don't know anything about the particulars of that prop. The guys have laid out a lot of potential issues for you.

    Another issue to consider is that just because a property cash flows, you might still like to sell it. I have 3 like this now. I want to move onto bigger things by cashing out/selling them. Could be your seller is considering a sale simply to cash out.

    Seems to me a great biz plan is to create cash flowing properties to sell to wanna be investors. Thoughts?

    I am also struck by the ratio of chatter to actual buying/selling/renting that people do on this site. Seems like a lot of looking and talking but not so much action?

    Maybe time to get into the game Corey.

    Diane Menke

  • Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2009 · 456 posts · 123 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Ryan Stirling:
    I'm new at this as well, but this deal isn't as great as it seems. You have included any expenses at all in your analysis. Insurance, Property management (unless you do it yourself), vacancy rate, repairs & maintenance - just to name a few.

    Look into the 50%/2% rule on this website. A lot of the buy and hold investors push this rule and the more I learn about it, the more it's a great estimation of expenses especially for analysis of a deal.


    can you please explain the 50 2 rule?
  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Corey,

    This looks like a good deal! You need to read one of the sticky threads on the 50% Rule (in the General or Landlording forums).

    At any rate, here is how I see this deal:

    Gross rents: $850
    Operating Expenses: $425
    NOI: $425

    Mortgage (30 yr, $42,500, 7% NOO): $282

    Cash flow: $143 per month which is GREAT!

    Now, you just need to do your due diligence. Go look at a BUNCH of properties in the area!

    Good Luck,

    Mike

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Payson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Corey Demuth:
    Originally posted by Ryan Stirling:
    I'm new at this as well, but this deal isn't as great as it seems. You have included any expenses at all in your analysis. Insurance, Property management (unless you do it yourself), vacancy rate, repairs & maintenance - just to name a few.

    Look into the 50%/2% rule on this website. A lot of the buy and hold investors push this rule and the more I learn about it, the more it's a great estimation of expenses especially for analysis of a deal.


    can you please explain the 50 2 rule?




    MikeOH beat me to the punch..............it must the Carb diet is making him quick
  • Real Estate Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2009 · 21 posts · 2 votes
    17y

    Huh? What kind of house has a 50% operating expense expectancy?

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    17y

    Read the sticky thread in the Rental Property forum. Lots of discussion on the "50% rule" there.

  • Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 759 posts · 185 votes
    17y

    Rochester has been a very hot market for cash flow investors, I know, because it is one of my biggest competitors! LOL

    I have a few clients with property there, and they have had success. While the city does not seem to offer a lot for growth, like a city named Indianapolis (I know, shameless plug!), it is an area that has been very solid!

    Make sure you have a very good property manager, as that is the real make or break with any out of state investment.

    On paper, this looks like a solid deal!

    My advice is to contact the person selling it and start asking questions!

    Have a Profitable Day!

  • Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2009 · 456 posts · 123 votes
    17y

    Yes my next issue is that it's a good 5 hours away from me (I live in NYC), is that going to be a huge problem? I was hoping to start out with something closer to home but this seems like a great deal and nothing around here seems very feasible to me for my price range (must be sub 200k).

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Payson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Corey, have you called the seller yet?

    no point in chit chatting about it if you haven't at least spoken to the seller yet.

    give her a call and let us know what transpires, I'd be interested to watch this unfold if it works out for ya.

  • Real Estate Investor · Myrtle creek , OR · Member since 2008 · 343 posts · 13 votes
    17y

    Corey, definition-War Zone- A very high crime area. A lot of drug activity, gangs, prostitutes, drive by shootings,murders, daily gunfire, etc. etc.Another forum member had a 50% rule that applied to war zones.Enter at your own risk, you have a 50% chance to come out alive. Jim

  • Real Estate Investor · NY · Member since 2009 · 21 posts · 1 vote
    17y

    Cory,if you tell me what area in buffalo i can give you some info as im very familiar with it.I dont invest there as most areas are not good anymore but there are some pockets that are ok.I tend to stay around the outskirts but not in the city

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Jim Doine:
    Corey, definition-War Zone- A very high crime area. A lot of drug activity, gangs, prostitutes, drive by shootings,murders, daily gunfire, etc. etc.Another forum member had a 50% rule that applied to war zones.Enter at your own risk, you have a 50% chance to come out alive. Jim
    On the 50% side of coming out alive, 10% unscaved, 20% alive with under $10k in hospital bills, and 20% over $10k in hospital bills. :lol:

  • Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2009 · 456 posts · 123 votes
    17y

    It's in rochester not buffalo, sorry for the mistake i got two properties confused.

    I am thinking I better do something closer to home so I can keep an eye on things at least while I'm new. The trouble is, not much is affordable around nyc!

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    17y

    You don't have to be close to make it work Corey. 98% of my current holdings are at least a 6 hour drive and all in other states.

    The key is building a great team to assist you.

  • NJ · Member since 2009 · 1 post · 0 votes
    17y

    i agree distance should not be a huge issue when deciding

  • Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2009 · 456 posts · 123 votes
    17y

    how do I get started? Don't I have to drive there to show the place to potential rentors? Or would a management company handle all of that? How do I find a "good" management company?

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    While I agree that investing long distance isn't impossible, it is unquestionably more difficult and carries more risk. Isn't there anyplace near you that has suitable rentals?

    Mike

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