BP, help me pick a city for Buy and Hold!

Real Estate Agent · Dayton OH (dayton, oh) · Member since 2016 · 194 posts · 123 votes

9y

Hello Denny,

I would definitely look at Ohio. Of course, I am partial to Toledo and Dayton areas as I live, work and sell investments there, But Ohio as a whole has some really fantastic markets. We sell turnkey properties with >10% Roi and I have current personal investments with 30-78% COC returns.

4 Reply

Denny Moody

OP

Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 5 votes

9y

@Rebecca G. thanks! I'll take a look at Dayton and Toledo.

1 Reply

Bryan Wilson

Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2017 · 74 posts · 41 votes

9y

Just curious what the downfalls of investing in Ohio are right now? I've known they have been coming back lately from an economic standpoint, but say you buy a auction home for $6k and rehab it in Toledo what is the likelihood of renting that property? Is the vacancy rate much higher? Just curious because everyone is touting Ohio and I don't know enough about the market yet.

1 Reply

Andrew FidlerBusiness Member

Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes

9y

Denny, I agree with Rebecca...the water is warm, jump in!

You can buy turn key or you can buy foreclosed and renovate or pickup some of the auctions I've seen come across lately for investor-owned fully operational properties. There are a thousand ways to get involved in this town!

I am a buy and hold investor like yourself, happy to show you around if you come to down or answer any questions you have...of course when it comes time to buy I'd love to be your realtor as well.

[email protected]419-410-3836

LaPlante Real Estate

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5 Reply

Account Closed

Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2014 · 57 posts · 34 votes

9y

If you decide to buy and hold in the Dayton area I would love to talk to you about managing them for you. Anywhere from single family to multi's.

5 Reply

Andrew FidlerBusiness Member

Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes

9y

@Bryan Wilson

Brian, I have done this about 50 times in Toledo (and hold 40 of those as of today)...it is that easy provided you can buy, rehab, rent, AND MANAGE them properly. I handle my own property management with a few part time people (and me preparing to depart my day job which will open up a LOT more time myself). There are a few newer property management companies here in Toledo I am excited to see how they do over the long-term...no opinion as of yet. (search BP for comments on Flex and Rylan along with a few others that haven't done so well)

There is nothing stopping you from making a successful business model in Toledo, just be ready to form a team and be focused on its success. I wouldn't be where I am without team members and it took me a few years to get the process of renovating, no over upgrading, and finding that fine line between being a responsible landlord and being on the receiving end of "I can't pay my rent" excuses.

I highly recommend you visit Toledo and get boots on the ground before buying a $6k property...that does exist in 43608 but I am quite vocal on BP that that specific zip code is definitely challenging and not for a beginner. Many property managers don't manage in 43608 as a result...I hold the majority of my portfolio there due to the returns that you get investing in the Wild West.

[email protected]419-410-3836

LaPlante Real Estate

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5 Reply

Andrew FidlerBusiness Member

Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes

9y

@Bryan Wilson

Vacancy is low and super easy to rent...offer well maintained places with simple lease terms and organized maintained and your places will rent. We did not experience any drop in applicants during the holiday season and all of my available vacancies are filled...if anything I am telling folks to sit back and chill while we finish out the few renovations we have left sitting on our plates.

Have a simple and effective system for removing tenants as well...mine is a simple handshake and hand over the keys if you need to leave. I don't want to keep people in their unit if they have a change in life or work...they re-rent just fine. Pay what you owe and leave me a good unit and we are fine. Shake hands and move on with business.

[email protected]419-410-3836

LaPlante Real Estate

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5 Reply

Engelo RumoraBusiness Member

Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

Originally posted by @Bryan Wilson:

Just curious what the downfalls of investing in Ohio are right now? I've known they have been coming back lately from an economic standpoint, but say you buy a auction home for $6k and rehab it in Toledo what is the likelihood of renting that property? Is the vacancy rate much higher? Just curious because everyone is touting Ohio and I don't know enough about the market yet.

Your success when investing out of state will always depend on the people on the ground and not the market itself.

What you read online is different to what the actual happenings are on ground.

Toledo and Ohio aren't sexy markets like some others but IMO offer the best "bang for you buck" out of any other markets nationwide.

Much success

Podcast Guest on Show #89

Oz Realty4.5368 Reviews

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4 Reply

Tom Ott

Equity Raiser and Turnkey Provider · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

Originally posted by @Denny Moody:

Hey BP,

I live in San Diego, CA and would like to invest out of state. I like the idea of investing OOS because it means my investments will have to be passive and it gives me the whole country to choose from. The downside of having the whole country to choose from is it can be somewhat overwhelming. After spending some time researching various markets around the country and getting overwhelmed, I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask BP for suggestions.

Here's the deal:

- Looking to invest this fall when I will have approx $50k cash to invest

- I also have approx $200k in equity in primary residence that I can tap into with HELOC

- interested in properties ranging from $50K - $200K

- Interested in buy and hold properties with >10% COC return

- Prefer landlord friendly cities, ideally with low property taxes

- open to SFR or small multi

BP, what cities would you recommend I take a closer look at?

P.S. I'm not interested in hearing how I should be flipping or wholesaling in my hometown. I'm only interested in Buy and Hold at this time, and even the war zone neighborhoods in SD don't cash flow.

Hello Denny!

Have you been looking into Turnkeys in other markets? Some times they can give you an amazing ROI depending on what market you get in to. Please send me a message if you have any questions.

2 Reply

Thomas N.

Investor · Nassau, NY · Member since 2016 · 55 posts · 13 votes

9y

@Rebecca G., Hi Rebecca, can you send me a listing of any turnkey properties you have for sell. I'm interested in running the numbers. Thanks.

0 Reply

Denny Moody

OP

Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 5 votes

9y

@Andrew Fidler Thanks for the info and congrats on quitting your job soon!

@Engelo Rumora I think you're right about success depending more on your team than your market. Once I have narrowed down which market to pursue, I'll get to work on building my team.

@Tom Ott Yes, I've looked into Memphis Invest, and am considering working with them. Some people say their product is overpriced, but seems like you get what you pay for. I'd be interested in learning more about what you have to offer as far as turnkey.

One concern I have about Toledo is population decline. Any thoughts on that?

2 Reply

Tom Ott

Equity Raiser and Turnkey Provider · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

Originally posted by @Denny Moody:

@Andrew Fidler Thanks for the info and congrats on quitting your job soon!

@Engelo Rumora I think you're right about success depending more on your team than your market. Once I have narrowed down which market to pursue, I'll get to work on building my team.

@Tom Ott Yes, I've looked into Memphis Invest, and am considering working with them. Some people say their product is overpriced, but seems like you get what you pay for. I'd be interested in learning more about what you have to offer as far as turnkey.

One concern I have about Toledo is population decline. Any thoughts on that?

Send me a message. I would be happy to talk!

0 Reply

Engelo RumoraBusiness Member

Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

Originally posted by @Denny Moody:

@Andrew Fidler Thanks for the info and congrats on quitting your job soon!

@Engelo Rumora I think you're right about success depending more on your team than your market. Once I have narrowed down which market to pursue, I'll get to work on building my team.

@Tom Ott Yes, I've looked into Memphis Invest, and am considering working with them. Some people say their product is overpriced, but seems like you get what you pay for. I'd be interested in learning more about what you have to offer as far as turnkey.

One concern I have about Toledo is population decline. Any thoughts on that?

Awesome mate

Team first and then the market.

Find good and competent people.

They will be in charge of "making" or "braking" the numbers that the market offers

Thanks

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Oz Realty4.5368 Reviews

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2 Reply

David Faulkner

Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

9y

How about San Diego, CA? ... you already live in one of the most profitable RE markets in the country, as witnessed by you and your $200k in equity, and you want to go out of state, to a likely much less profitable market, and give up nearly 100% control over your investment why exactly? San Diego cash flows phenomenally well in the long run; much, much better in fact than you are likely to find out of state ...

4 Reply

Jeff Wallenius

Specialist · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 670 posts · 352 votes

9y

@Denny Moody @Engelo Rumora is exactly right, your team is the absolute key to any successful venture out of state. We work with some outstanding team players in quite a few markets and it is paramount to have honest and trustworthy individuals you can count on. There are also some pitfalls to be aware of when jumping into Turnkey. If you have $50K to invest you may want to take a look at the BRRRR method to leverage that money a bit further and allow you to buy several properties instead of one. Happy to assist if you need additional.

4 Reply

Rebecca G.

Real Estate Agent · Dayton OH (dayton, oh) · Member since 2016 · 194 posts · 123 votes

9y

Thomas N. feel free to PM me for more information

0 Reply

Jennifer Slaughter

Real Estate Agent · Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2016 · 246 posts · 142 votes

9y

We are cash flowing in Memphis and I agree with what other people are saying--being out of state, having a savvy team with boots on the ground is invaluable.

3 Reply

Matt R.

Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

The country is your oyster...or you can rent out two parking spots in SD and make more cash flow. Actually, Pueblo, Colorado has some options if you are set on OOS. One item I think you missed is property taxes...this is the hidden cash flow killer for many OOS folks. Just get ready for the real life 14% for PM and not the 10% everyone else advertises...minus lease up fees and the rest...again hidden. Good luck with your search.

2 Reply

David Faulkner

Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

9y

Originally posted by @Matt R.:

The country is your oyster...or you can rent out two parking spots in SD and make more cash flow. Actually, Pueblo, Colorado has some options if you are set on OOS. One item I think you missed is property taxes...this is the hidden cash flow killer for many OOS folks. Just get ready for the real life 14% for PM and not the 10% everyone else advertises...minus lease up fees and the rest...again hidden. Good luck with your search.

... and that 14% for PM is best case scenario for a good PM, which are exceedingly rare and difficult to find in any market, let alone one thousands of miles away that you are not familiar with. I've had bad and dishonest PMs that cost me well over 100% with under the table repair kick backs, selecting bad tenants that don't pay and trash the place, workmen stealing anything not bolted down like window treatments, etc., and mediocre ones who regularly ran 25% when it is all said and done.

2 Reply

Denny Moody

OP

Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 5 votes

9y

Matt R. Are property taxes in most places higher for OOS investors? I know my dad struggled with that when he invested in North Carolina, but I haven't heard of that elsewhere. David Faulkner San Diego will almost definitely provide greater appreciation and long term wealth than OOS but I'd like to build positive cash flow now. I do think you can cash flow STR in SD but that's a full time job.

0 Reply

Rick Thomas

Real Estate Broker · Pueblo, CO · Member since 2015 · 35 posts · 37 votes

9y

Interesting to see Pueblo CO hit the radar. If you're interested in pursuing this marketplace I can probably help you out.

2 Reply

Matt R.

Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

Originally posted by @Denny Moody:

Matt R. Are property taxes in most places higher for OOS investors? I know my dad struggled with that when he invested in North Carolina, but I haven't heard of that elsewhere.

David Faulkner San Diego will almost definitely provide greater appreciation and long term wealth than OOS but I'd like to build positive cash flow now. I do think you can cash flow STR in SD but that's a full time job.

Property taxes vary state to state, county to county, city to city and at times, school district to school district...and are not uniform for the most part like Cali. Some even have an extra on top for OOS/nonresident or just investor in general. It is homework time and Pueblo and Colo is very low just like Cali. It is not uncommon to allocate 3 to 4 months rental income just for taxes. Again you will never see this part advertised by sellers.

2 Reply

Anthony Pimentel

Investor · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2016 · 61 posts · 19 votes

9y

I'm also looking for more OOS properties. I just purchased my first rental property in AZ and want to get into more. Anyone know anything about the Oregon market?

0 Reply

David Faulkner

Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

9y

Originally posted by @Denny Moody:

Matt R. Are property taxes in most places higher for OOS investors? I know my dad struggled with that when he invested in North Carolina, but I haven't heard of that elsewhere.

David Faulkner San Diego will almost definitely provide greater appreciation and long term wealth than OOS but I'd like to build positive cash flow now. I do think you can cash flow STR in SD but that's a full time job.

Property tax in CA is an already low ~1%, then once you factor in Prop 13 tax advantages, CA has some of the lowest effective property tax rates in the nation.

San Diego appreciation is in both price and rents, and has exceeded inflation and national averages going on for decades now (with some volatility in between), so you will likely do better long term on both cash flow and equity ... factor that in with the reduced risk and costs of staying local where you can assess and control your investments, and you almost certainly will do better local so long as you don't over extend and have to sell in panic or give it back to the bank. You appear to be a relatively young man, why do you need the cash flow right now? Focusing on just that is being a bit short sighted IMO.

1 Reply

Matt R.

Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

David is right...if you need cash flow today, pick another REI investment is an option. Keep in mind if that cash flow or equity does not appreciate it will be worth 50% less in 20 years due to inflation. Almost everything offered in this post above lost 50% in cash flow value last 20 years. Thats puts the next 20 years at effectively zero returns when compared....now add the property tax...oh boy and no bueno as far as wise longterm RE investment returns when inflation and property taxes are actually mathmatically factored. Again, the hidden REI stuff.

3 Reply

BP, help me pick a city for Buy and Hold!

BP, help me pick a city for Buy and Hold!

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