Should I pay for a one-on-one mentor?
Logan, UT · Member since 2018 · 4 posts · 3 votes
Should I pay for a one-on-one mentor?
Most Popular Reply
Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
8yOriginally posted by @Shawn Moser:
Thanks for the fast reply Chris. It's not the personal trainer type motivation I need in a mentor, it is a step by step process for how to close my first few deals successfully to gain the confidence to do it myself.
There's a website called biggerpockets.com that has all the guru stuff for free; you may have heard of it. :P
62 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes8yIf you pay me 1000 I’ll tell you whatever you want to know. What a steal
- Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes8y
$12k for a year of phone calls. Think about it, that's what, $250/phone call? That's more expensive than Mrs. Cleo (whatever happened to her? lol)
- Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 4 votes8y
Not sure what other points the ladies and gentlemen in the chat have already touched on, but globalization is not limited to just nation trading, but it effects market prices in micro-economy of coaching as well - there is a wealth of preliminary knowledge here, and on other sites, but I wouldn't discredit a mentor too quickly.
That being said, as my initial statement was alluding to, the supply and demand of the real-estate mentor market has become pretty tame, and I believe you may be able to find mentors of similar value (I dont want to say "surely" because I do not know the person you are referring to at 12k) at much lower price points such as 1-2k. Look around, people are finding success in these lower price-point spheres. Best of luck!
- 8yMindy JensenPro MemberBiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
Originally posted by @George Pauley:
I eventually figured out that no one knows every aspect of real-estate investing.
I like to think @Brandon Turner is a know-it-all...
- Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
@Shawn Moser when you say "will walk me through getting 6-8 deals in the year", is this person local who they themselves get 6-8 deals a year? 6-8 wholesale deals, flip deals, BRRRR deals? I would want them to be more specific on what kind of mentor I am getting. Is he going to tell you to make 100 low ball offers a day on every house that comes on the market? Is he going to get you sending direct mail letters like hundreds of others? If you speak to them on Monday, but need to speak again Wednesday and then Saturday, will they charge more?
I imagine these programs/mentors, can work. I also imagine more often than not, they really don't deliver what they claim to deliver.
- Real Estate Agent · Palm Beach Gardens, FL · Member since 2017 · 199 posts · 124 votes8y
Before really getting into real estate and construction, we did the Rich Dad, Poor Dad coaching. I would not pay for it again. The books are great and enough in my opinion. This was almost 2 decades ago.
All you really need to do is break down what you want to do in small pieces. First I would decide exactly where you want to invest in RE. Pick a few neighborhoods. Learn the prices in those areas really well. Once you know the price per sqft for something updated verses not - that would be a good starting point. Become a numbers "expert" in a few key locations. Get your real estate license if for anything to have access to the MLS and to be able to let yourself into the properties on your schedule. All this is is a numbers game. Just my 2 cents.
- 8yShiloh LundahlPro MemberRental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Shawn Moser I am sorry that I am so late to this conversation. I wish that I had gotten here sooner to share my story before everybody else jumped on the anti-guru, anti-coaching group think that exists so much on BiggerPockets.
Doug Hopkin was part of my year-long guru training program. My wife and I spent a week with him and his business partner, Damon, in Newport Beach, California in 2016. Besides being entertaining, he shared a ton of very practical knowledge on how to buy and flip properties right and walked us through the numbers. After the training, I reached out to Doug because he operates in my market in Arizona and I asked him for the banker information of the banker that gives him his loans on his properties. Because I was working with him in the training he gave me the bankers specific name and contact info.
I started building a relationship with that banker and he ended up lending me around 2 million dollars, financing 15 of the rentals that I purchased in 2017, giving me a business line of credit at a low rate secured by my properties in Indianapolis so that I didn’ have to go through an out of state bank and try to get 4 separate loans on those properties, and he came and spoke at a meet up group that we held a few months ago.
Because of that one contact I would say that our business has quadrupled in size and that contact has increased our net worth by hundreds of thousands of dollars each. That contact alone was worth more than 12k.
Could I have learned all of the things that I learned in my year long guru program by reading on BiggerPockets? Probably. Just as well as I could have learned how to swim by reading a book. I could have had all of the info and still freaked out when jumping into the water. People here think that you can get a mentor who is successful very easily. They are not easy to come by. Why? Because they value their time and they don’t like to waste it by meeting with new investors who are not serious, who are “just looking into it.” The phrase “put your money where your mouth is,” fits well here I think. In my opinion, It also makes people value the education they receive when they have to sacrifice for it.
The guru training program worked for us. It helped us learn how to build a team and a system to where I can still run my therapy practice and meet with 24-32 clients a week and build a real estate portfolio. This team and system helped us close on 8 properties in the last 40 days (to be more accurate 7 but we close on our 8th tomorrow).
Know who you are and what your learning style is. If you can read a book on being an olympic swimmer without ever having been in the water and then, after you finish the book, can jump into the pool and start swimming with the professionals, then don’t pay for coaching, just jump in. If you want someone to help you learn what the strokes feel like and what it feels like to glide through the water, then get a coach. If you want a good one then pay for it. All professional athletes that I know of have coaches and had coaches along the way.
I hope this can give another perspective to those who have commented thus far: @Chris Mason, @Caleb Heimsoth, @Pablo Barrientos, @Jim K., @Shawn Ward, @Nicole A., @Derrick E.@George Pauley, @Damon Tyler, @Bola A..
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:
@Shawn Moser I am sorry that I am so late to this conversation. I wish that I had gotten here sooner to share my story before everybody else jumped on the anti-guru, anti-coaching group think that exists so much on BiggerPockets.
Doug Hopkin was part of my year-long guru training program. My wife and I spent a week with him and his business partner, Damon, in Newport Beach, California in 2016. Besides being entertaining, he shared a ton of very practical knowledge on how to buy and flip properties right and walked us through the numbers. After the training, I reached out to Doug because he operates in my market in Arizona and I asked him for the banker information of the banker that gives him his loans on his properties. Because I was working with him in the training he gave me the bankers specific name and contact info.
I started building a relationship with that banker and he ended up lending me around 2 million dollars, financing 15 of the rentals that I purchased in 2017, giving me a business line of credit at a low rate secured by my properties in Indianapolis so that I didn’ have to go through an out of state bank and try to get 4 separate loans on those properties, and he came and spoke at a meet up group that we held a few months ago.
Because of that one contact I would say that our business has quadrupled in size and that contact has increased our net worth by hundreds of thousands of dollars each. That contact alone was worth more than 12k.
Could I have learned all of the things that I learned in my year long guru program by reading on BiggerPockets? Probably. Just as well as I could have learned how to swim by reading a book. I could have had all of the info and still freaked out when jumping into the water. People here think that you can get a mentor who is successful very easily. They are not easy to come by. Why? Because they value their time and they don’t like to waste it by meeting with new investors who are not serious, who are “just looking into it.” The phrase “put your money where your mouth is,” fits well here I think. In my opinion, It also makes people value the education they receive when they have to sacrifice for it.
The guru training program worked for us. It helped us learn how to build a team and a system to where I can still run my therapy practice and meet with 24-32 clients a week and build a real estate portfolio. This team and system helped us close on 8 properties in the last 40 days (to be more accurate 7 but we close on our 8th tomorrow).
Know who you are and what your learning style is. If you can read a book on being an olympic swimmer without ever having been in the water and then, after you finish the book, can jump into the pool and start swimming with the professionals, then don’t pay for coaching, just jump in. If you want someone to help you learn what the strokes feel like and what it feels like to glide through the water, then get a coach. If you want a good one then pay for it. All professional athletes that I know of have coaches and had coaches along the way.
I hope this can give another perspective to those who have commented thus far: @Chris Mason, @Caleb Heimsoth, @Pablo Barrientos, @Jim K., @Shawn Ward, @Nicole A., @Derrick E.@George Pauley, @Damon Tyler, @Bola A., @Albert Ng, @Monica Breckenridge, @Jay Hinrichs, @Account Closed, @Kate J., @Jake K., @Cara Lonsdale, @Patrick I., @Rich Baer, @Milad Awadallah, @Brian Pulaski, @Account Closed, @Tom Gimer, @Susan K..
like I said if this is actual one on one training and not a call center in Utah then I think these have merit.
- Rental Property Investor · Chandler, AZ · Member since 2011 · 145 posts · 79 votes8y
If someone was successful and active in real estate, and was someone who would be a good mentor, why would they want my money instead of the value I could provide in *actually doing a deal together*? In fact why aren't they *actually doing a deal* with me and just taking my money in exchange for talking on the phone? Do they need my money? Are they not looking for deals?
In my experience, I focused on being active and *making myself a valuable person to mentor* first and then my mentor(s) simply gravitated into my life. And those are the best kind of mentors.
The only exception was that I did once pay a mentor for his time, but only because he was local and active, and because he made it clear what his time was worth, and was straightforward that he was not promising that I would even want to do real estate or that he was going to sugar coat it, and only because he made it clear that we *were going to do a deal together* so long as I followed his instructions and did the work.
- Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes8y
Given all the resources available here and elsewhere on the Internet, I would lean pretty strongly toward no.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes8y
Well, there's more or less two major thoughts on the issue:
1. Information that you don't pay for is worth what you paid for it - thus, you should pay for coaching & mentorship.
2. Information that you pay for is free for the taking, since there's nothing new under the sun - thus, you should not pay for coaching and mentorship.
The route you should go really depends on you, and is more or less independent of Doug Hopkin or anyone else. I think some more-or-less universal truths should be presented first:
1. Coaching and guru programs cannot provide you secret sauce that's not available somewhere else, for free, because there isn't any secret sauce.
2. The exact opposite approach - learn nothing, just completely wing it - is probably going to result in losing money (It was for me).
Where you go from there depends on how serious you are, how much money you have to burn on learning, and what your own strengths and weaknesses are. @Jay Hinrichs is right when he says BP is largely a DIY site, so most of the responses here are going to say 'no' to paid training/mentorship.
Where I think coaching may make sense:
1. You have absolutely no idea what you are doing, are easily overwhelmed by sheer information, and have limited time availability to research avenues & options.
2. You want to specialize in something that can be really involved or complex (i.e. note investing, tax liens).
3. You want to test the waters without going whole-hog on deal investment or time commitment to various strategies.
Where I think coaching makes no sense:
1. You believe that coaching will prevent you from losing any money, either now or in the future, or ever.
2. You believe that coaching has some magic tricks not available to the general public.
3. You already know what you want to do (own rental property, or flip houses, e.g.), where/how you want to do it, and with what funds you're going to do it with.
Again, that doesn't mean I think all coaching is equally valuable or valueless. Some coaches are overpriced windbags. Some are underpriced geniuses. In all things in life, it's usually best to risk only that which you can afford to lose without affecting your financial, mental, physical, emotional, and/or spiritual health. So if you want to do coaching, you might want to find someone that's low cost (unless you can easily afford to lose $12k) and see if you even like the process.
Skyline Properties - 8yShiloh LundahlPro MemberRental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@JD Martin well said. I absolutely agree with you. There are some gurus that are high price and not worth the money and there are some that are worth a lot more than they charge. Then again, there are some people that can learn really well from a book or a podcast and they go out and do great.
I am a more of a hands on learner and enjoy learning from others in person. So for me, mentors, partners, and coaches work great.
- Cambridge, MA · Member since 2017 · 268 posts · 247 votes8y
Absolutely - a paid mentorship places a value on the the mentor's and mentee's time.
However, a mentorship has to be more than transactional. I believe you need to evaluate the individual and the advice before making a decision to pay.
- Rogers, AR · Member since 2017 · 49 posts · 18 votes8yI can do weekly calls for 8k a year. I will cater your program to your specific needs. I will listen to what you are wanting out of REI, and tailor your purchases to what you need. We will also have a deep discussion on your reason why, and figure out the best ways to positively impact your life. Honestly, I am of two minds. Though I agree with most people here, sometimes I feel like I need special motivation. I am always one of those people who say "You paid *that* much for *that*?! I would do the exact same for cheaper."
- Rogers, AR · Member since 2017 · 49 posts · 18 votes8y@Shawn Moser if you really feel like you need one on one guidance look to someone local. Casually meet at a REI meeting. Ask for contact info. If you hit it off drop them a line now and then. Being in the doldrums between my first few initial deals can be frustrating. It's always good to hear encouragement coming from mine.
- Real Estate Consultant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 54 posts · 25 votes8y
As a beginner myself --> Save that 12k towards a down payment! Go find your local association & meet ups and pay $100-$22 to join your local club. If you feel you NEED a mentor, find someone successful you want to emulate and offer them $100-$200 for an hour of their time each week. If you're lucky, and ask the right questions, you might even find people willing to help you for free.
I completely understand needing a 'kick start' but 12k? Save that precious start up cash!
- 8yTom GimerBusiness MemberDMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
@Shiloh Lundahl My point was the use of the word mentor. I associate the word "mentor" with "free" ... to me it is a pay it back concept.
Man if all "mentors" behaved like this nobody could afford to learn anything.
Gimer Law516 Reviews - Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes8y
I haven't read most of the responses from everyone else, but I'm pretty sure most of them say not to do it.
My take on the paid programs or coaches is-- it's not that any of them are wrong or the info isn't valid (depends on the company of course), but where things go wrong is, in my opinion, people sign up for them too soon.
It's a little bit of a double-edged sword: when you are new into REI, you need info and you need coaches and instructions and such (or at least all those things would be helpful). So that's why people start signing up for these expensive programs- because they need the info. But the problem is that when someone is that new into the industry, they don't actually know what REI strategy or go-about is going to work for them.
For instance- if you want to be a flipper, the only way to know if flipping is really your thing is to try flipping, but if you don't know how to flip, you might need someone to guide you through it to get you started. See the problem? You need the info in order to get started, but I don't think anyone should pay that kind of money until they know if that strategy is really their thing, and you can't really know that until you've already started. And if you've already started, you might not need the $12k instruction course.
Soooooo.... I don't think anyone can say for sure if someone should do one of those programs and pay that kind of money or not. Everyone will be different. I personally, contrary to what people suggest is the way to go about it, prefer more succinct and clear instructional info. Rather than, for example, perusing and searching through BP and trying to put all the instructional pieces together on my own. I'd prefer a tried and true, and very clear and efficient, instructional course over having to find it all for myself and having no idea if I'm putting the right pieces together. So for that, I wouldn't mind doing a more expensive course. Because then I know I'm getting legit info (assuming a reputable company), in the most efficient way possible, and I have help from the company for diving in. I haven't done that, as I never got that far into needing that level of information for what I do, but there is certainly some appeal in it for me.
I think the main thing is a) having self-awareness for what will more likely work for you personally and b) not doing it pre-emptively. Have some kind of solid reason to believe what'd you be learning in that program is something you for real plan to be doing for however many years.
Worst case, if you do spend the $12k (there are much more expensive programs out there, so at least we're talking a more doable investment) and you don't end up sticking to whatever you learned, as long as you don't just do the program and quit REI altogether, you will most likely be able to apply the knowledge you did get in such a way that well makes you back $12k in the future.
I don't think the answer to you should be a flat "no". Everyone is different, there are always ways to make it work (if you stick with it), and who knows, maybe it changes your life. It's just unfortunate these types of programs end up making all their money off their educational programs and not because people actually end up doing what they've learned. But that's on the student, not the company. So, that's were self-awareness comes in.
- Attorney · Miami, FL · Member since 2017 · 108 posts · 113 votes8y
Trump University. 'Nuff said.
For 12k, you can go get your real estate license. Then you network with other realtors, investors, lenders, contractors, etc. Those are the valuable connections. Not some mystery guy who takes your phone call for a 1k per month. Gimme a break.
99.99999% of investors are NOT using this guy and still doing fine.
- 8yDan H.Pro MemberInvestor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
I am not anti paying to get educated in RE. My issue is that it is via phone. A lot of RE is local. For example investing in the Midwest is about cash flow. Investing in coastal So Cal is about value plays and appreciation.
After the local factor there is the number of ways to make money in RE: flipping, buy and hold SFR, buy and hold residential multi- family (2-4 units), buy and hold commercial multifamily (5+ units), buy n hold retail, notes, value plays, wholesaling, new development, etc. Is the mentor going to be an expert in the method that is best for you?
If you could find a successful local mentor that specialize in your market and that is an expert in the REI specialty you desire that could save you mistakes and help you complete a few smart purchases (anyone can make stupid purchases) it could easily be worth $12K.
My issue is that I suspect this phone mentor is not an expert in your market otherwise he likely would be able to meet you in person. I suspect he has significant experience in only one or two of the RE investment specialties and may have no experience in the best RE specialty for you.
I agree with all the replies that indicate look for a local mentor that is successful. Do what is necessary to become his protégé even if that means pay them in either money or free labor.
Good luck
- Rental Property Investor · Caledonia, IL · Member since 2015 · 289 posts · 213 votes8y
Agree with Rich and Shawn. I'm having lunch with someone on Wed who I hope to mentor and will do it for no reason other than to give a hand up. I've never charged for any mentoring and never will not a fan. The 3 people who said yes only 1 made sense and like he said you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince - very rare IMHO. Type in your area for keywords and let the invitations start which is where u should start. 12k get you a nice FHA loan and onto the next one.
Go get em!
- Wholesaler · Montgomery Village, MD · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 7 votes8y
I've been thinking that I really need to find a mentor too. I know most of these commercial ones are scams (I know some aren't too). I really want to find one that will take a portion of the profits. I'd sign something that says if I don't complete certain tasks that I have to pay for time. I just don't know how to find one. Shawn, maybe this is what you need too. Anyone have suggestions on how to find someone? I've been working at this for a couple years, and I look at my results, and while I've been on BP webinars, other webinars (generally just advertisements), even bought some small programs, and I don't have much to show for it. I know others have started with less and done much more, so I know I must need to learn something. How do I find it?
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