Have you ever not been to a rental property ?

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Have you ever not been to a rental property ?

Jason Gamio
Contractor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 4 votes

I live in NY and have noticed it’s too expensive for me to invest here at least locally.

Have you ever purchase a property that you've never stepped foot in? Or at least only visited once or twice? I see some friendly prices out of state and was wondering if I had to be there often. Was thinking of the BRRRR....

Your thoughts?

Thanks!

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Bill B.
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
7y

I bought a $460k townhome on lake Minnetonka in MN from MLS pictures and I live in Vegas. After it was under contract I had a realtor walk it and an inspector

I did that 3 years ago. I haven’t been inside it yet. I want to retire there someday so I took a 7 year $2700/mo lease. 

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  • Michael Tal
    Developer · London · Member since 2019 · 45 posts · 33 votes
    7y

    A lot of my deals that I have done are through my international syndicate due to the fact that I'm from the UK. I have never visited any of these properties and as weird as it sounds, I feel like in the current times, most things can be done over the internet or a simple phone call.

    2Reply
  • Michael T.
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 326 posts · 279 votes
    7y

    @Jason Gamio there have been properties I've bought sight unseen, however, I know the city, I have confidence in my real estate agent, I have a good property manager and if they are okay with it I'll purchase without seeing it.

    As others have mentioned it's not worth doing if you don't know the market, you don't have the cash or you don't have a few players in place to help in the process.

    0Reply
  • Jason Gamio
    OP
    Contractor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    @Laura Hines Thank you!!

    Wish you continued success!

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Member since 2018 · 78 posts · 63 votes
    7y

    @Jason Gamio I haven't done it yet myself. I have seen a few out of town investors invest in things in my area though that no one from here would touch with a ten foot pole. I think just be careful because you are used to super high prices... something that you see elsewhere that may seem really cheap to you may not be a good deal. Study the market as best you can and maybe try to make some connections on BP with people that are in the area. Good luck!

    1Reply
  • Jonathan Brobst
    Flipper/Rehabber · Topeka, KS · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 7 votes
    7y

    Hi Jason,

    I agree with several who have responded stating it is best to physically see a property, especially one that needs a lot of rehab before it is rent ready.  I have wholesaled properties to out of town investors here.  In my experience, the ones who have had a better track record of success are the ones who will visit the property prior to closing and then develop relationships with property managers etc. while here in town.   

    I have not physically seen the property you referenced on Clay St. but it looks like it needs a lot of work from the photos on Zillow.  The $20k does not look like a good price for that property in it's current condition in that neighborhood.  

    I would be happy to answer any questions you have about the market here if you want to pursue it.  

    1Reply
  • Jason G.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Long Island, NY · Member since 2015 · 434 posts · 495 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jason Gamio:

    I live in NY and have noticed it’s too expensive for me to invest here at least locally.

    Have you ever purchase a property that you've never stepped foot in? Or at least only visited once or twice? I see some friendly prices out of state and was wondering if I had to be there often. Was thinking of the BRRRR....

    Your thoughts?

    Thanks!

     5 properties in Atlanta Market, never stepped foot there.

    2Reply
  • Aaron Hunt
    All Over, USA · Member since 2017 · 689 posts · 756 votes
    7y

    @Jason Gamio

    Doing it as we speak. Keys get handed over tmrw. PM team takes over immediately.

    1Reply
  • Edward Fedorovich
    Rental Property Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 22 posts · 15 votes
    7y

    might have been said but, pay for an inspection, will give you a good idea of overall condition, repair estimate and maybe a bargaining tool.

    I have bought plenty of homes without looking at them but that's because either I was buying for land value and the house was a perk of the deal or simply because the deal was so good it didn't matter. In most circumstances you want to put eyes in it (yours or somebody else)

    1Reply
  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    7y

    I wouldn't generally recommend it. We have, but only as part of a portfolio where not inspecting each house was part of the deal (there were 97 of them). Even if investing out of state, I would make the trip out to inspect it. 

    Podcast Guest on Show #121
    1Reply
  • Doug Peters
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 68 posts · 34 votes
    7y

    Yes, all our past RE investments (5) so far have either been OOS (Out of State) or many hours drive away.  They have all been with a group or with partnerships. 
    Moving forward, yes, I am still interested in investing OOS but yes, I would do my due diligence and I think I would take a trip out there to see it in person this time.

    1Reply
  • Roy Muller
    Member since 2018 · 27 posts · 19 votes
    7y

    @Jason Gamio. I have and do. Initially I bought very safe properties. Pretty much at market value but taking a discount through paying cash. My first three helped me establish credibility and rapport with an excellent realtor in the area who has hooked me up with a very good pm and an excellent contractor. He now brings me off market deals regularly. I did visit the area a couple of times prior to investing there but had never seen these properties. Still haven’t seen one of them. I feel like I got lucky with finding my team. I recently read the out of state rental property book mentioned above. The guy reiterates it’s about your team. You may get lucky like I did but I dread to think how badly things could have gone had I picked the wrong guy to be my realtor.

    1Reply
  • Scott P.
    Rental Property Investor · Indiana...mostly · Member since 2019 · 468 posts · 245 votes
    7y

    I recommend not to buy without seeing the property in person.

    With that said, to answer the question, I bought once without seeing the house until I went to the city it was located in for closing and even then I did not go inside but only did a drive by.  

    Also, this was about 25 years ago. So there was no internet to see photos, etc.  Now, with that said, I need to add that I learned about the property from an older relative who said he was going to buy it if I didn't.  (That situation can have pros and cons too but in my case it was all "pros.")   So, yes, I've done it and it worked fine for me but i don't recommend it.

    1Reply
  • Jim Fleck
    Flipper/Rehabber · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 27 votes
    7y

    I've bought properties all over the country and sold rentals to investors all over the country. It's completely false that it's a bad idea to invest without stepping foot in the property. There's too many tools available today online to research a market, it's crime, it's schools, rents, appreciation/depreciation to be in the dark. It's easy to hire an appraiser, an inspector, a local real estate agent and property management company that can do all the due diligence you need. When you look at the entire country as your marketplace it becomes a LOT easier to find a deal. Yes you need to be educated, and do your due diligence.

    3Reply
  • Josephine Giordano
    Real Estate Agent · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2018 · 22 posts · 13 votes
    7y

    @Jason Gamio

    Hey Jason,

    I live in Brooklyn. I decided to buy out of state myself. I tried to send an agent to see a property that I liked online. She said it was great but once I went through inspection, i found there to be a lot wrong. It only cost me $500 buck but I rather spend that money on a plane ticket to go see some myself and then go through inspection.

    My life partners sister lives in this particular part of Florida so I felt a little better buying out of state. It’s also a town home in a gated community so that makes me feel a bit more comfortable as well. It’s been a few months and I’ve had a washer/dryer issue so I recently invested in a company to come and give Annual maintenance to my 1. Plumbing 2. Ac/hvac 3. Appliance for $300 that’s a bit more piece of mind.

    Let me know if you have any other questions.

    Best,

    Josephine

    2Reply
  • Jason Gamio
    OP
    Contractor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    @Roy Muller great advice.

    Thanks!

    0Reply
  • Matthew Olszak
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    I've sold/managed properties before where my client never physically viewed it, even after owning. I go and take photos, submit reports, they get an inspector to go by, and then close.

    Something I'd like folks to consider that is a bit against the advice commonly preached here - you don't need to see a property in-person if you have a trustworthy team working for you. Doing so outside of your market is of NO value except to verify what your team has told you, which negates a large part of there value.

    For instance - what makes someone think they can "know" the intricacies of a neighborhood or asset class when they have NO experience in that immediate market? So you fly out there to look at the house - what does that tell you beyond physical condition? You still won't know the neighborhood class, rehab expectations, etc.

    I know that if I wanted to buy a property in Cleveland (for example), I'd have no clue if a neighborhood was good or bad. Maybe I could guess based upon how the homes in the area look, but that'd be just an uneducated guess because what I am used to as a good neighborhood here in Chicago might be the ghetto over there, or vice-versa. 

    Instead, I'd find a solid agent who could report back on all of the details. If you're in the sub $250k price range, no established agent is going to ruin their reputation just to sell you a property and earn a $4k max commission. Wholesalers, they certainly will tell you what you want to hear vs. what's accurate, as will many Turnkey Operators and agents w/ just a few sales under their belt. But someone with a multi-million sales volume and experience in the areas you are searching, those will likely be trustworthy.

    Investing blind requires a well-vetted team of professionals who will tell you when to hold and when to fold, and such an arrangement will require that you trust them.

    1Reply
  • Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Jason Gamio we have a lot of clients that purchase homes sight unseen.

    I give everyone the same advice: If you are going to invest in an area I would absolutely fly out for the first one. Meet your realtor, property manager, home inspector, and anyone else on your team.

    If you can afford it I would fly out for all of them but, at least you will have seen the first property in person and met your team.

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    1Reply
  • Kevin Barnard
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2018 · 45 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    I purchased a triplex in Florida from California, I've never been to Florida. Technology is pretty sweet now days, I've seen the inside and out, signed the leases, seen the repairs and collected the profits all from my phone . I've owned it since November. Already fired a management company , had vacancy, hired  better management , turned over the unit and  filled the vacancy . I did a lot of research prior and continue to do so and build better relationships. It taught me a lot and happy I did it . 

    1Reply
  • Bob Floss II
    Attorney · Northbrook, IL · Member since 2017 · 719 posts · 549 votes
    7y

    I would only recommend buying sight unseen if you 100% trust your team. Scam artists prey on out of town investors and their lack of knowledge in the area. 

    1Reply
  • Brian Ploszay
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    Purchasing properties without seeing them is not advised.  It is risky. 

    That being said, I've purchased notes and bought properties at the sheriff sale without viewing the inside.  But they were discounted and I calculated the risk.  And if given the chance, I would have viewed them.

    I can't say enough about the importance of doing due diligence.  Know the property, know the condition, know the local rental market, know the area.  If you're bigger and you have a skilled team, your subordinates or partners can effectively view properties for you.  

    1Reply
  • Zack KorensteinPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    @Jason Gamio. Hi Jason I’m a New Yorker as well (live in Brooklyn) so I’m in the same boat as you. Been focused in on real estate for a lil while now and only discovered BP in October of 2018. My wife and I bought our first rental (single family) in Dallas TX last month. Did NOT go see it once. We are putting a lot of trust into our agent who is amazing. When your in NYC you gotta think outside the box, I understand as I grew up in jersey and have worked in NYC for a looong time. Out of state is the way to go and as others of mentioned smart phone technology really allows it to work. But you have to do your homework and due diligence of course which is harder from far away. I’d be happy to chat more , private message me and I’ll tell you more about this first deal.

    1Reply
  • Kevin McGuirePro Member
    CTO of BiggerPockets · Seattle, WA · Member since 2019 · 178 posts · 178 votes
    7y

    @Jason Gamio Yes, well until recently.

    I have a trusted real estate agent and property manager team in a different country to where I live. I have seven SFH's there, most of which I had never seen until recently except for the listings. In fact I had previously visited the city and not gone by to see them since I was busy with other things. I can do this because I trust my team. I wanted to go by and see them more out of curiosity and to help my ability to visualize issues my property manager is informing me of. I'm currently under contract for a fourplex I've not seen.

    On the plus side, it allows you to buy with your left brain. You buy based on the numbers and the advice of your team. By contrast I’ve started looking at places where I live and on a few occasions I’ve slipped into right brain mode, wanting to buy a place because I liked the place. I’m concluding that I’m better off NOT seeing them!

    1Reply
  • Jason Gamio
    OP
    Contractor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    @Kevin McGuire awesome!

    Thanks for the advice wish you continued success!

    0Reply
  • Adrienne Markes
    Real Estate Broker · Southern California · Member since 2019 · 18 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    I have a duplex in TX and two small SFH in TN that I have never seen. They were new construction and I found out about them through a trusted contact. I've never had a problem with them (knock on wood).

    0Reply
  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Jason Gamio to make the BRRRR strategy work you have to nail both the ARV and rehab cost. I don't see how you can that without seeing the property.

    0Reply
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