Is it really about not spending the money you make?

Is it really about not spending the money you make?

Lincoln, NE · Member since 2019 · 19 posts · 21 votes

Hey BP!  I'm still quite new around here so I know I'm risking outing myself as someone who "doesn't get it yet" by asking this, but I've been consuming everything I can to try to educate myself - podcasts, books, forum conversations.  (I have yet to get out to a local meet-up, but  I'll get there.)  I think of this as part of what it takes for a new investor like me to get up to speed.

One thing that keeps coming up - particularly as I read my way through some of the titles folks on the podcast identify as their favorite business books - is the idea of drastically minimizing expenses.  I guess the volume and frequency of the "you must live an exceptionally modest lifestyle" message has surprised me and I'm curious if you have tips for how to accomplish the spirit of what they're saying without drifting into self-deprivation.  Live below you means, sure, but some of this advice...I dunno.

Of course I get that living on $20,000 a year, for example, would provide a big boost to my wealth building but I've lived on that income before, as I'm sure many of us have, and I don't recall it being very pleasant.  I don't need to splash money all over the place, but what's the point of using real estate as a tool to build passive income and increase my long-term wealth if it doesn't also improve my standard of living as I go along?  Sure my retirement would be GREAT if I save 50% of my income, but...  What am I missing here, BP?

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Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y

I can see how just saving for retirement would not be a very big why.  The folks I know that 'do without' have a stronger reason than to have a big nest egg someday. 

We and others you have listened to I'm sure just prioritize things differently.  I've never been impressed by or been driven to purchase brand new cars or phones or clothes or exotic vacations, etc. I'd rather have freedom. Not yearning for things that drop in value has allowed me to not have had to clock in anywhere for 17 years.  

We still have wonderful experiences and fun.  My boys and I might play frisbee golf and go for a Costco hotdog afterward for a treat where others may do something costing far more than $8, but we don't feel we are doing without at all.  Another favorite we do is kids bowl free, a national thing.  I'll get a pass all summer for $20 to bowl 2 games a day if I want.  The kids are completely free.  Great memories can be built without large dollar signs.

I don't have to be very frugal anymore, but it's hard not to be. It's what we like and what we are used to. I now have a car that goes too fast and is too small to carry tools or kids.  Big whoop. Got it at a steal with no payments. If purchased years ago with payments when I was broke, it would have delayed my semi-retiement 10yrs. Our priorities are still in the correct order I think. 

It's up to you.  Would you rather pay retail for things that will be worth less (wothless) later? Or change how you define fun and important for freedom?  90+% of workers run on a wheel well into their 60s.  Be normal if you want to.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 893 votes
    7y

    @Ryan Pozzi it's all about what you want from the whole thing. Do you want to live lavish? How big do you need your business to be before you start harvesting the fruits of your labor? I had a good year in '18 but hadn't reached my long term goal... so I kept to my 5k/mo salary from my business, which I live just fine off of because I've set myself up for a low overhead lifestyle, and reinvesting my profits into growth. Once my business reaches a certain point I will increase my standard of living. Until then- I don't need my friends and acquaintances to know about my come-up.

  • Jordan MoorheadBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Lee Bell do whatever you want man.

    I’m more of a live frugal, save and build up assets type of guy.

    I’d love to leave my family with a large inheritance.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 102 posts · 43 votes
    7y

    @Ryan Pozzi

    I would say depends on your goal and how bad and how soon you want to achieve it. I remember the earlier days of my business success I lived a pretty lavish lifestyle, although it gave me a lot of great memories but it is not sustainable and not very purposeful. Right now I try to find a balance between spending time with my family, business and REI and conscious about my spending. It really helps when you set goals and get the priorities in order. The rest will follow pretty nicely. If what you do doesn't align with your goal and it's easy to tell yourself this is not the best way to spend your time and money. Hope this helps!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Dayton Ohio · Member since 2019 · 114 posts · 71 votes
    7y

    My divorce really set me back into the stone age, had to pay to get out of a bad relationship and i'm still paying for it now. As far as family, time is the key not money, kids will remember the time you spent with them before they remember the trip to Disney or the game systems you bought them. I agree CC debt is a must to pay off, 18-30% just in their pockets is nuts. Other debts like house, cars, etc are ok. 1-5% is acceptable. I would never pay off a house if you are an investor unless you are making more than you need to live on and have fun. Equity in a house is just untapped funds that could be used to make more money. Like having the money in you mattress at home. Economics 101 is debt makes money, let someone else pay your loans while leveraging the cash flow into new investments. But in the end it all comes down to personal preference and what level of risk you are able to manage. I manage high risk multi Million dollar government contracts at work, so 100k house deals where i may have to borrow from 5 different people while having car loans, house loan and other debt, wouldn't bug me in the least.  -just my .02

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Marcus Auerbach:

    When you ask people why they got in real estate the answer is almost always to be free. Money is what allows you to be free, but for me it's not the primary goal. Being able to design my lifestyle is. 

    Looking back at my 10 years in real estate how I manage money has changed a lot. Early one a divorce wiped me out financially; I was left with a nice home I could not sell, a new house/horse farm that was not drywalled yet and I could not move in, the construction debt from the work and a huge monthly payment to my ex to support her lifestyle in CA. I never defaulted on anything, but I remember one month I had literally no money to buy feed and basically lived of spaghetti and bananas despite an executive income. I had to pinch every penny and did a lot of the work on my first properties myself.

    The following years everything I had went into growing my portfolio, money I had, money I borrowed and every wake minute I had. I would start early at the office, try to get out at 5 and then be excited about another 5 hours I had left in the day to work on the rentals. We grew a lot, I met my amazing wife and after watching me for a couple years she started investing herself. She is a teacher and drove a Honda and I had a company vehicle, we worked hard and we invested most of what we made, but we also made sure that we could enjoy life. And we never took cash flow from our business to pay for our life, that's what active income is for.

    Almost four years ago I quit my corporate job after almost 20 years and went full time real estate. Like a kid in the candy store I was so excited about having all my time to spend on what I love most - real estate! It was an amazing feeling, although cutting my W2 felt like jumping from a bridge. And that drove me to work really hard to build my career as a real estate broker, but I also played around with general contracting high end properties, building new construction and of course managing and growing the portfolio. And also giving back; countless hours to help others to get started, because I remembered all to well how hard it was for me to find a good agent (took me years) or anyone who could help me (before BP!). I would work 7 days a week (as an agent you don't get off on the weekends) and were burning the candle on both ends running from meetings to job sites and back.

    So my goal for this year is to log a little less hours, lower my stress level a bit and make more time for the things I enjoy outside of work. I just got back from a skiing trip to my home country Austria and next week for spring break we will be in Mexico on the beach. Two more trips planned for this summer. And on Thursday we will be attending a beginners class in sailing - I am excited to make finally some recreational use of Lake Michigan! 

    So we are spending our money on experiences and a little bit on nice things. But every dollar we earn passive goes back into RE. And every dollar we make active get's stretched as much as we can. We have no consumer debt. We drive nice cars, but they are paid for.  We shop at Costco, we cook mostly at home, we usually don't have more than one drink when we are out and heck - we even fly Spirit to Mexico (I know..). Looking forward what motivates me financially is being able to help my family, being in the position to give back is a huge motivation for me.

    For every book I read about real estate and business I try to read one about life and happiness and often it comes down to the freedom to have choices. And my wife keeps reminding me about what I told her way back why i got into REI in the first place..

    Spirit to Mexico now that is austerity  !!!  

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Lee Bell:

    @Jordan Moorhead

    There is no point to leaving a 6 or 7 figure inheritance to that no good kid who will pizz it away in a few months. Like one of my cousins did.

     At one brief point in my young adulthood, I pizzed away a much smaller amount a couple of times.  Not nearly enough to begin investing, but more than I had ever had in my possession at one time prior to those events.  The Now me shakes his head and chastises the Then me for being so stupidly wasteful.  It was right after those times that I fully understood the song "Nobody Loves You When You're Down And Out."

    I gotta say though, there are worse ways to spend one's time than being a young man and pizzing away a few thousand dollars.

    I would hate to see my children waste whatever small inheritance I leave them, but I wouldn't be too upset to see them spend some of it foolishly if it puts even a temporary Cheshire Cat smile on their faces.

  • Lincoln, NE · Member since 2019 · 19 posts · 21 votes
    7y

    People of BP!  This conversation really took off.  Thanks for that!  I have read every response - 106 so far - and some of you are nuts.  Me too.  I dig it.

    My business partner saw this thread and pointed out that I should have been more transparent about the fact that I'm already retired - and not from success in real estate.  I had a good deal of professional success in my pre-real estate career, but mostly I married well and my wife's (much much more) success changed the game for me. Nobody ever puts that in their 6 Steps to, Nineteen Ways to, 47 Ideas for books.  It'll be the whole first chapter of mine - maybe even the whole book.

    Chapter 1

    Marry for love and then find out about the money.

    Anyway obviously y'all are way ahead of me on this path. I've only done two deals so far and both were as much luck as acumen. (Probably more luck, actually.) We met the right people who needed fast money more than they needed full price. We're launching this REI business because we're excited about the possibilities and because, now that I'm spending more time at home, if I don't stop driving my wife crazy around the house I won't live to see my next deal.

    All of that is beside the point, mostly I stopped back in to say thanks for all the perspectives and all the (mostly) friendly guidance.  Except for that one guy who told me to keep living like a slave if I didn't like cutting my expenses.  Somebody hug that guy.  Keep up the good work, BP!  I'm learning a ton.

  • Investor · Away · Member since 2017 · 167 posts · 131 votes
    7y

    @Ryan Pozzi

    I haven't read every post from your original question, this seems to be an area many people have an opinion on. What I would say is that money is a lever. Time is money, something we've all heard before, so time is also a lever. Effort is the last lever and with any one of those you can move forward. When I say that these three things are levers, I need you to understand that you have to know where it is you want to go before you ever try moving to get there.

    I find that a lot of people are, what a major once explained to me, "all thrust and no vector." They go through nearly manic episodes of "I'm gonna eat healthy, I am going to the gym everyday, I am going to quit my job with passive income." All thrust and no vector to changing their lives to make these things reasonable.

    If you want change, YOU are going to HAVE TO CHANGE. If the thought of discomfort is too unreasonable for you then maybe your goal isn't really that important to you. If making a PB&J for lunch everyday for a year, or two, or forever sounds like a step too far then you're not on the right journey my man. 

    In the end money isn't the problem, mindset is. Money is a tool, if you have it you can save yourself time and effort. That is really all it does. Gurus try to sell you a solution, the simple answer is you know the solution to your problems hard work, dedication and deprivation are required. Surrounding yourself with likeminded people is incredibly helpful, not just to get deals done but to support you when you're feeling down, to let you know you're not crazy for chasing your dream.

    I hope this helps, I am not trying to insult anyone or make it seem like I am calling anyone lazy or telling anyone their dreams aren't realistic. It is a hard pill to swallow that you will be hungry sometimes, you will be tired sometimes, you will live in discomfort, you will struggle and you will achieve only in adversity. 

    I will leave everyone with this, a sergeant once told me, "we do the things today that others will not do, so that we may do tomorrow what other cannot do." 

  • Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2018 · 142 posts · 74 votes
    7y

    When your spending is in alignment with your values and your goals, it doesn't feel like sacrifice!

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