I don't trust my Financial Advisor, what should I do?

I don't trust my Financial Advisor, what should I do?

Member since 2019 · 20 posts · 9 votes

I've had a roth IRA and a mutual fund thru Northwestern mutual for just under 2 years. I'm 23, I wanted to get started early so I can buy a business with the money some day. I don't trust the guy that is in charge of my account. My 2 accounts are up less than $100 COMBINED during the lifetime of my contributions (23 months) . Should I take my money out and invest in Robinhood myself? Anyone have any good suggestions? I'm open to anything, please let me know what you think!!

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Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y

I have a friend that works for Northwestern Mutual.  Limited insurance type products is what he sells.  Hardly a 'financial advisor' IMO.

My boys have growth stock mutual funds and index funds.  They were up 20% in 2017, down 8% in '18, up to all-time highs in '19. 

If you were in equities as you should be, you should be up way more than $100 unless the account value is $1000 or something real small. What's the % gain?

My guess is fees are eating your lunch.  80% of FAs don't beat the market anyway, so may as well invest in no load index funds.

Exceptions to index funds would include a large, complicated estate.  Check out The Simple Path to Wealth by JL Collins or I Will Teach You to be Rich by Ramit Sethi and get your investments on auto-pilot (without gotchas). 

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  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    7y

    There is no way anyone can answer this question for you without actually seeing the numbers in detail.  I would say, based on the numbers you have given, the investments you are in s&$k.  One of the contributing factors may be the limited products your FA has available to use.

    In any case, there's no way of knowing with the limited data...and let me add, I wouldn't suggest posting any of that data.  What you need to do is sit down with a calculator, and track out a timeline based on your contributions, of what your investment is worth, what your contributed, and then if you actually got a return or not...for each timeline.

    Also, I would strongly suggest you find out what fees you're paying...all of them.  Your FA may be the only one making money here.

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    7y

    I have a friend that works for Northwestern Mutual.  Limited insurance type products is what he sells.  Hardly a 'financial advisor' IMO.

    My boys have growth stock mutual funds and index funds.  They were up 20% in 2017, down 8% in '18, up to all-time highs in '19. 

    If you were in equities as you should be, you should be up way more than $100 unless the account value is $1000 or something real small. What's the % gain?

    My guess is fees are eating your lunch.  80% of FAs don't beat the market anyway, so may as well invest in no load index funds.

    Exceptions to index funds would include a large, complicated estate.  Check out The Simple Path to Wealth by JL Collins or I Will Teach You to be Rich by Ramit Sethi and get your investments on auto-pilot (without gotchas). 

  • Real Estate Broker · Bay Area · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    Hi Nick,

    It's really hard to say. The last 2yrs have been very volatile in the market depending on when the account was opened it's possible that is what it is.  It's a traders market right now.  What Steve said sounds about right. 

  • Rental Property Investor · DFW · Member since 2017 · 143 posts · 120 votes
    7y

    @Nick Farrell,

    Did you investigate what is dragging down your returns?  Is it excessive fees, conservative investment choices, neither, both?  30 minutes looking at your statements and investment performance charts should clear it up.

    Did you ask the person in charge of your account why he chose those specific investments?  Was it based on your guidance and risk tolerance?  Was it based on incentives offered?

    As far as alternatives, it's personal choice based on how you want to spend your time.  Do you enjoy researching stocks, funds, etc?  Would you prefer a roboadvisor account that's more hands off?  Do you want to do passive lending on crowdfunding sites?  Do you want to get more involved with real-estate?

    One potential simple solution is to ask your representative to convert your account to a non-managed account, then buy a whole index ETF and just leave it until you're ready to do something different with it.

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    7y

    Also, make sure you understand how percentages work as they are applied to this type of investing.  Understand the language, and the "misdirection".

    If you have an investment that starts out at $100k and it takes the following path per year:

    YR     +/- %   

    1      +50%   

    2      -33 
    3     +20
    4     -17
    5     +30
    6     -25
    7     +50
    8     -40
    9    +10

    ...you would NOT be at a +45% = $145k       

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    @Nick Farrell yikes I’ve been pitched by northwestern mutual before for their insurance products and financial services, needless to say I passed.

    You’re portfolio should be up somehow, not sure what’s going on there. Likely high fees or just awful mutual funds.

    I’m in all index funds (truly passive) and have averaged 9 percent annual return for the last 3 plus years. I haven’t had to do anything. That’s pretty much right in line with historical averages.

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Caleb Heimsoth:

    @Nick Farrell yikes I’ve been pitched by northwestern mutual before for their insurance products and financial services, needless to say I passed.

    You’re portfolio should be up somehow, not sure what’s going on there. Likely high fees or just awful mutual funds.

    I’m in all index funds (truly passive) and have averaged 9 percent annual return for the last 3 plus years. I haven’t had to do anything. That’s pretty much right in line with historical averages.

    Yep, my boys are up an average of 13% over the last 5 years and they're still teenagers learning the basics.  

    Not hard to get good returns past 10 years if your investment options aren't limited to high fee proprietary insurance products.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Caleb Heimsoth:

    @Nick Farrell yikes I’ve been pitched by northwestern mutual before for their insurance products and financial services, needless to say I passed.

    You’re portfolio should be up somehow, not sure what’s going on there. Likely high fees or just awful mutual funds.

    I’m in all index funds (truly passive) and have averaged 9 percent annual return for the last 3 plus years. I haven’t had to do anything. That’s pretty much right in line with historical averages.

    Yep, my boys are up an average of 13% over the last 5 years and they're still teenagers learning the basics.  

    Not hard to get good returns past 10 years if your investment options aren't limited to high fee proprietary insurance products.  

    What percent equities are those? I’m guessing mine is a bit too conservative for my age.  I’m currently 70/30 equities/bonds 

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    7y

    Aggressive growth equity 100%.  Expense ratio .81%, but beta of only .97   Lots of FAANG exposure.

    In a low rate environment I'd be hesitant to have any bonds, but now that I see what my boys are in I may adjust their funds at these frothy levels.  After the rise Monday from tariff easing announced yesterday, of course ;)  

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    Aggressive growth equity 100%.  Expense ratio .81%, but beta of only .97   Lots of FAANG exposure.

    In a low rate environment I'd be hesitant to have any bonds, but now that I see what my boys are in I may adjust their funds at these frothy levels.  After the rise Monday from tariff easing announced yesterday, of course ;)  

    I should probably scale back the bonds some, but it helps when the market goes crunch haha.  

    This is sort of another topic but what you’re doing with your kids is really interesting to me.  Imagine investing for them the day they’re born.  That’s an extra 18-20 plus years of growth then if they did it themselves.. then do that for a couple generations and the results are incredible. 

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Caleb Heimsoth:

     I hear you.  These little rats have had equities in UTMAS and Roths since they could spell truck. 

    Of all the topics I've been asked to cover as a podcast guest, the closest I came to accepting was if it was about stealth wealth and leaving a legacy.  

    My goal is for my granchildren's grandchildren to have no student loan debt.

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Caleb Heimsoth:

    I should probably scale back the bonds some, but it helps when the market goes crunch haha.  

    This is sort of another topic but what you’re doing with your kids is really interesting to me.  Imagine investing for them the day they’re born.  That’s an extra 18-20 plus years of growth then if they did it themselves.. then do that for a couple generations and the results are incredible. 

     I hear you.  These little rats have had equities in UTMAS and Roths since they could spell truck. 

    Of all the topics I've been asked to cover as a podcast guest, the closest I came to accepting was if it was about stealth wealth and leaving a legacy.  

    My goal is for my granchildren's grandchildren to have no student loan debt.

    I’ll ping you via PM, this topic is really fascinating to me, and I want to discuss it More 

  • Rental Property Investor · Odessa, FL · Member since 2017 · 145 posts · 113 votes
    7y

    Never take financial advice from someone that has to work for a living.

    Fire the guy, start taking control over your own investments. 

  • Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Nick Farrell I won’t advise you on what to do with your money other than agree that you should certainly move it away from your a current “advisor”. By the way , most of these guys are awful as your interest isn’t their interest despite “fiduciary” laws.

  • Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 764 posts · 953 votes
    7y

    @Nick Farrell have you read "Fake" by Robert Kiyosaki. Great foundational book for financial education. The book also answers your question directly. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 893 votes
    7y

    Lol you should go learn to manage your own portfolio for sure. If your financial advisor were such a good investor, he would be a professional investor. Not a financial advisor.

  • Investor · Bayside, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    That's a hard question to answer, as "it depends". But I had experience with "financial advisors" for some 40 years, and I'm retired now.

    I used them out of necessity. I was fortunate enough early on in the 80's to first to have a finance job, systems analysis job, then and IT job where I was given a computer with internet, where most people wasn't. Problem was I got the bug and spent hours on company time, researching and trading.  I decided to have financial advisors so I can finally do the work I was paid to do.

    My first episode was I had $25,000 put aside for purchasing my first home, which I planned to do after I'm more settled. My Merrill Lynch financial advisor said I can't go wrong with Ginnie Mae unit trusts. Says they're safer than bonds, pays a good interest rate, so I put the whole $25,000 into it.

    A year went by and I'm ready to buy my home, and to my horror, my portfolio dropped from $25,000 to $20,000. Asked the financial advisor what happened, and his answer was, interest rates went up, so the value of the Ginni unit trusts  goes down. Yes, you can buy bonds, Ginnie Maes, and hold them to maturity, collect interest, and not lose money. But I clearly told him the money would be used in a year or so when I'm ready to buy a home. And yes, I had my MBA in Finance then and I know when interest rates rise, bond values go down, and it was my fault that when he gave me the sales pitch, I completely forgot. My mother in law bought Ginnie Maes, has no MBA, but held it to maturity, collecting interest, and made money on it

    From that day on, I always had my portfolios held by at least two firms, served by two advisors. Nowadays,  one is held by Chase, with it's financial advisor, I pay fees, and they invests in a whole array of ETF's, bond funds. They had it for several years, and we stressed that our goal is safety, preservation, not looking for spectacular returns, so far, they done that.

    The other major portfolio, I self manage, never turned it over to a financial advisor. Rather than diversification, I invested into high tech stocks. I speculated with options at one point, and made over $200,000 with an initial investment of $40,000. When the market turned, I didn't lose big, my gain was reduced to $100,000 so I decided to quit while I'm ahead. I only owned a handful of high tech stocks, turned out to be the right ones, chief among them Microsoft. Years ago, I bought a handful of shares, with splits, turned to 1,000, so this past year, when the stock went from $80 to $130, I was shocked, but pleased. 

    And then my wife had a portfolio once, had a fund advisor manage, after a year, we weren't wasn't pleased. We found out it was invested in funds that charged a penalty if we cash out. Finally, we decided to take the loss, moved it to another manager who did better.

    Just to say, these are our experiences. But the main thing with us, with high pressure corporate jobs, a real estate portfolio to run, can't afford to spend time trading on the job, hence the need for financial advisors.

  • Long Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 3 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    Hey @Nick Farrell!

    Awesome of you to have gotten this step started in your early 20s!

    There’s a ton of tips here already which is great. For my own path inspired by what I’ve read in books, magazines, blogs, and message boards— I could not justify having a financial advisor for myself. I think a financial advisor may be helpful for things like estate planning and wills and trust funds for your beneficiaries but I optimistically doubt I would ever need an advisor to suggest to me where to invest my money.

    A couple of books that influenced my choices:

    The Simple Path To Wealth by JL Collins

    The Only Guide to a Winning Investment Strategy You'll Ever Need by Larry E. Swedroe (this book has been criticized because Swedroe worked for a particular mutual fund company but I liked his overall message because it was simple— don’t try to beat the market, join it with broad funds. Of course this was Bogle’s original message I just didn’t happen to read him first)

    My choices:

    Vanguard Total Market (VTSAX)

    Vanguard Small Cap Value (VSIAX)

    (For my contributions I put 50% in each and don’t rebalance these although rebalancing is usually a major part of people’s portfolio management). These choices are broad and have the lowest expense ratios! One criticism may be that they will have similar performance and not diversified enough. For my personal taste I do not mind.

    Software:

    Personal Capital: to track all my financial accounts (credit, bank, investment, I also use their manual account option to track personal lending and cash I have stashed)

    Google sheets: I log every transaction I make on a daily basis and categorize them then I can look back at a pivot by different details such as month and category. Sure Mint and other apps can do this but inserting this discontinuity of the manual process is said to help you develop more insight into the data.

    Good luck!

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego · Member since 2019 · 109 posts · 87 votes
    7y

    @Nick Farrell fire them and do it yourself...

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockwall, TX · Member since 2015 · 30 posts · 12 votes
    7y

    @Nick Farrell

    Google J L Collins

    Read his blog or book

    Index investing VTSAX!!!!!

  • Rental Property Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 19 votes
    7y

    @Nick Farrell The S&P 500 is up around 18% over the past 23 months. However there have been some huge dips during that time period including one Q4 of 2018. Depending on fees, Investment choice in your portfolio, and timing of your transactions, you may have had a bit of bad luck or it may be, as you say, a bad FA. Ask someone you trust with financial knowledge to review your portfolio to see why you are underperforming the market.

  • Rental Property Investor · Odessa, FL · Member since 2017 · 145 posts · 113 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Ivan Barratt:

    @Nick Farrell have you read "Fake" by Robert Kiyosaki. Great foundational book for financial education. The book also answers your question directly. 

     Ivan, I'm a big fan of Robert, I have not read "Fake" yet but I did watch several of his videos promoting "Fake" including some extensive interviews. Robert goes on to call the stock market "Fake assets" and explains why, but just so you know he did invest in stocks in the past as per this video: https://youtu.be/iY_OgRhYH7Q?t=75
    It does make sense that the stock market is fake assets, but I think it is also wise to diversify your portfolio.
    Another thing that Robert says about the stock market is that you pay high taxes on your profits vs. not paying tax at all on REI (Robert claims he doesn't pay any taxes). There is some truth to that, RE investors can potentially not pay taxes legally if they play their game right.

    Robert is a very wise man, I like a lot of his content incl. books and Youtube videos. 

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 512 posts · 301 votes
    7y

    @Nick Farrell sounds weak. Get a new one, end of story

  • Ian WalshBusiness Member
    Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    If you don't trust someone with your money, cash is an acceptable position. If it were me, I would put the money in my bank account and then learn a business or investment strategy so well that it seems silly to give it to an adviser. You have to be 100% certain of your ability to achieve the ROI anticipated.

  • New to Real Estate · Gaithersburg, MD · Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 9 votes
    7y

    @Nick Farrell

    I know you have a LOT of responses. I haven’t read them but I can speak from experience. I am/was a financial advisor and will always havE my Certified Financial Planner designation.

    An advisor at that level of funds in your account will charge you the MAX in fees....well over 1% if not 2%. Advisors’ goal from a business standpoint is to gather investible assets. The more you have the more attention you’ll get.

    You don’t need an advisor for investments with only $100. His options are limited anyway. It’s all going into a single mutual fund, which you can do EASILY somewhere else.

    What’s important is to consistently save money. If you don’t have cash reserves, you shouldn’t be investing anyway.

    Long story short, the habit of saving, no matter how small, is more important than where it goes...especially early on.

    Leave that guy, go to Betterment and start automating your deposits. You’ll get the same exposure to the market without the BS.

    Send me a message and I’ll give you some more resources to help with it all.

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