If you could move anywhere in the US...

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If you could move anywhere in the US...

Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes

I'm sorry if this is a very general question, but where would you move to if you could move anywhere in the US and start real estate investing?

Backstory: I am Canadian and my husband is American. We currently live in Alberta, Canada. He is a Canadian permanent resident. We don't have kids yet, but plan on starting a family next year. I have a very good, high-paying job but I'm not fulfilled doing what I'm doing and have always had a passion for real estate. I own a condo where I live and one outside of Vancouver, Canada. Looking to buy another condo there next year. My husband will soon be going back to school to study Physiotherapy.

Disclaimer: I love Canada and it's an amazing country with so much opportunity. However, I would like to start a real estate investing journey, and it's just much more financially difficult here.

We are open to moving anywhere in the US. We've traveled through the US quite a bit already, but we know there's so much more to see.

I've used the Niche app as a great tool, but I find the best real answers come from personal experiences :)

Tl;dr looking to move anywhere in the US with the following criteria:

- Good for families (safe, good public schools)

- Good place to invest in real estate (job growth, favors landlords, population growth)

- preferably a major city or at least the suburb of a major city

- culutrally diverse (I'm half Filipina/half German, husband is 1/4 Mexican and 3/4 white)

- good schools

- low state income tax

- lots of parks and greenery (originally from Vancouver, Canada)

- last but not least...lots of good restaurants!!! My favourote hobby is eating good food ;)

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Calvin Lin
Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2015 · 81 posts · 210 votes
6y
 hi, I always use the Uhaul inbound vs outbound truck rate differential to see where people are headed in general as far as relocation goes.  You want to avoid those locales where there is a huge difference between outbound (a lot of) and inbound (very little of).  Of course this isn't everything but it is a good starting point.  As you can see below avoid NE or coastal areas due to cost, focus in inland locations.

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  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:

    Anywhere but Pennsylvania...seriously, I'm really not sure how you get to the answer you need from a question posed to strangers in a discussion group. Good luck to you, but maybe you could narrow it down a bit yourself and then start asking people from that location.

     Why not Pennsylvania?

    I live in Pennsylvania. Just a joke.

    0Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y

    Not quite true. I don't live in Vancouver anymore. I moved to pursue work in the Oil Industry. Do I miss Vancouver, absolutely! The average house price in Vancouver is currently $1.25 million, so a little out of my reach right now. If I can actively invest in Real Estate even in the suburbs and live there too, then I will. As an investor in Canada, you need a 20% down payment. There seems to be a lot more creative ways for financing in the States and a lot more opportunity. 

    I will miss universal health care for sure. However, I often get taxed 40% of my income. If my husband were to work in Florida, his income tax would be 0%, and that would help pay for a really good health care plan - if he doesn't already get one from his employer.

    I don't want to live in a small city in the US, I would prefer a large city. Tampa Bay area has a population of ~3.1 Million. The median house price in Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater area January 2020 was $279,450. Still much more affordable than Vancouver! I understand I will compromise on diversity a bit. It won't be anything like Vancouver, SF, NYC, Toronto, but that's a trade-off for affordability. As long as there is some diversity, I will be happy.

    Regarding active shooter drills, yes this is something I worry about coming from Canada. Canada isn't immune to mass-shootings, but it is far less common. There's not too much I can say about that other than it's something I worry about.

    Suggesting that I hate Canada is as far from the truth as you can get. Just because you leave one country to looks for opportunity elsewhere doesn't mean you hate your home country. This is a great, free country. But my husband is American, so I have a unique opportunity to pursue work elsewhere - why wouldn't I try? I'm young and consider myself resourceful, I'm not afraid to try new things. I'll be letting go of a great job, but if I'm not happy here, why not try something else? Luckily, because I have a good job, I'll have a good nest egg to fall back on. I'd always have my experience here also. I could most likely work in oil again, if all else fails.

    Thanks for your input.

    0Reply
  • Steve K.
    Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn:
    Originally posted by @Steve K.:

    Denver definitely checks all of your boxes.

    It's funny, I was debating with a friend in Denver tonight about whether Revelstoke or Kelowna was a better place to move to. Grass is always greener I guess! 

    Denver definitely checks the boxes. But housing prices are a little steep there, aren't they? I've visited and it reminds me a lot of Calgary, Alberta being so close to the Rocky Mountains. If I wanted to, I could get a job there in the oil industry (what I currently do), but that's not what I want to do long-term.

    Oooh, I'd have to go with Kelowna on that one! However, you have to deal with forest fires every year, and that takes a toll on your lungs! Revelstoke is much more affordable. I also prefer Kelowna for its proximity to Vancouver, and it's a much more developed city. You have major airport, university, etc. BUT - very expensive! Unless you invest in a condo. I LOVE Canada and am biased with BC, but it's out of my price-range right now. Hopefully someday I'll move back!

    Yeah my friend and I were just dreaming about Kelowna or Revelstoke basically; our wives are definitely not on board and it’s pretty difficult to move to Canada as an American. The attraction for us would be outdoor recreation (mountain biking, skiing, kayaking). The last time I was in Revelstoke was during the GFC and there were some very attractive bargains to be had, but my wife wanted nothing to do with the remoteness. I feel like that area will pop eventually. I didn't realize that about the forest fires, that's unfortunate. We get those here a bit as well but not nearly on the same scale as up there. 

    Denver and Calgary definitely have strong similarities, especially in terms of geography and climate with both being located where the high plains end and the Rockies begin. I remember being reminded of Denver when I was in Calgary. They both share a history of having started during western expansion, and evolved from mining/railroad/transportation hub towns to ranching/agriculture to energy. However from what I know of Calgary, I think the economy there is still more tied to energy than Denver and subject to the booms and busts inherent in that industry, whereas Denver has become more diversified since the big crash in the late 70's/ early 80's. Denver is now a lot bigger than Calgary and is diversified with tech, finance, healthcare, telecommunications, aerospace, advanced manufacturing, tourism, outdoor recreation, transportation/logistics, defense, food and agriculture, and a bustling startup culture.

    Pricing is a little high in Denver compared to somewhere like our midwest/rustbelt, but compared to a place like Vancouver, BC, it's still quite affordable. I'm not sure what your price point would be but entry-level for a SFH here is in the $300k range, $500k and up for multifamily. The median property value is in the low to mid $400's. Deals aren't falling out of trees by any means, we've been in a competitive growth market for a long time, but good deals can still be had if you build a network with local investors and agents, learn which areas are in the path of progress, and both look hard and have patience. Most good deals are traded off market, especially in the small multifamily space, so it's important to align yourself with someone who is established and has access to deals. Using a value add strategy (buying fixers and making improvements/raising rents), I've been able to achieve both cash flow and appreciation which is perfect in my opinion. Rents and prices have been steadily increasing here, the lifestyle and quality of life continues to draw people in, and the job market is strong and diversified.

    0Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Matt Berklacy:

    Put Wake County Raleigh NC suburbs on your list, do an airbnb and feel it out..also Jacksonville Florida suburbs (St johns county) for price, weather, investing, life style, rei numbers, schools

    if you do an airbnb for a week in each part of the suburb, you will often know the city better than long term locals..

    That is absolutely the plan! Raleigh and Jacksonville are both on the list! Once we're able to travel to the States again, we have a long list to places to visit to put feelers out on the areas.

    Thanks for your input!

    0Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    As others have mentioned, the Southeast is a beautiful place, lots of investing opportunities - FL and TN don't have state income taxes.  I am in Birmingham so am partial to it, of course.    But it does get HOT and Humid in the summer, though winters are mild, certainly compared to Canada.  

    Wife and I took a long road trip last May and I was really struck by Tucson, AZ.  Didn't have much time to spend there but what I saw I liked and would certainly investigate further.

    My husband is from Memphis, and I've visited quite a bit. It's not as humid as Louisiana and Florida, but I know how hot it gets. BUT he moved from there to here, where it gets to -40 Celsius in the winter - so I think I can adjust too! It'll probably just be from the car to the mall where there's always AC ;)

    I'll have to look into Tuscon, too! We've only been to Sedona and Phoenix. I know Phoenix is another big spot with Canadian snowbirds.

    Thanks for your input!

    0Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Alex Bello:

    @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn

    South Florida. Great for RE, major city, culturally very diverse

    Are you talking about the Miami area? Would love to visit for sure!

    0Reply
  • Jimmy O'Connor
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2018 · 428 posts · 484 votes
    6y

    I'm right there with @Joe P. with Philly. It's a city with so much growth potential as NYC investors continue to travel south to avoid the growing legislation that does not favor the investors as well as diversify their capital across a dozen Philly rows for the price of one manhattan brownstone. Philly will only continue to prosper as echoing rumors of a bullet train from NYC to DC (basic overview article of the high speed line) turns into reality. This allows the young professional community to live in Philly and easily commute to NY, a phenomenon that is already happening.

    1Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joe P.:

    I've got to put in a vote on the Philly area. I think we're a few years away, but we've seen the "certain neighborhood explosion" that begets massive influx of jobs, a la what happened in Boston with Biotech.

    Philly is already well known for its Healthcare contingent, plus the Universities that can funnel those prospects to those organizations. We have an upgraded (albeit still low capacity compared to a Newark or O'Hare) airport, and decent infrastructure. Taxes are still moderately lower than our neighbors to the North (NY) and East (NJ).

    Philly is on the list, thanks! I've been hearing good things about developments in the area. Is there a certain industry fueling the growth of Philly?

    I love the idea of being close to NYC and being in the north east, while still being affordable. Plus I love traveling to Europe, so that's always a bonus being so close ;) I also live in a town where we're a 5 hour drive to the closest major city, so I don't mind driving at all.

    Thanks for your input!

    0Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Paul Shannon:

    I'd be looking at tertiary sunbelt cities for a couple reasons.  Concerning personal reasons, I'm tired of cold winters.  There's not much to do in Indiana for about 4-5 months.  I'd also be attracted to the tertiary markets because smaller towns aren't as crowded/have less traffic.  

    For investing reasons, I think the south is poised to grow exponentially, as the net migration continues that way.  I'm a fan of tertiary markets b/c they are a little off the radar, so not as much competition.  Lots of upside with markets that have good jobs/employers.  

    Think Greenville SC, Chattanooga TN, Huntsville AL.  

    I can relate about the winters! 6 months of winter here, -40 degrees, I work outdoors, lack of sunlight. Overall, I actually love having 4 seasons and don't mind winter, I'm just tired of 6 months of it! 

    I'm interested in Chattanooga for its proximity to the mountains (I'm definitely a mountain gal). Do you think there are enough jobs in these markets to support population growth?

    Thanks for your input!

    0Reply
  • Deniz Eker
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 102 posts · 48 votes
    6y

    Naples,FL.The one and only place I would live in US

    0Reply
  • John Wilkins
    Member since 2020 · 1 post · 1 vote
    6y

    I would suggest Dallas/Fort Worth area in TX or a suburb around there. Lots of high paying jobs compared to cost of living. There are good schools and plenty of real estate opportunities. It is also very culturally diverse which is great. There are also a ton of great restaurants around. A lot of different kinds of food. The biggest downside is there isn't going to be much greenery. You can find little hiking trails here and there but its not mountainous or green. 

    1Reply
  • Jon Allen Jr
    Rental Property Investor · Pottstown, PA · Member since 2018 · 9 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    Marianne, my family and I are in the same situation. We've lived overseas for the past 15 years. Although our move date is still TBD, we landed on the Raleigh MSA. I'm interested in adding multifamily to my portfolio, so I did a market analysis of second-tier MSAs analyzing job growth, population growth, etc. I cross-referenced those results with liveability, great places for raising a family, etc. rankings. In addition to the job market, strong education fundamentals, Raleigh is also two-hours from the beach and mountains. It's also not too far from other REI markets that landed on my radar: Greensboro, Richmond VA, Greenville, Charleston SC. I'd be happy to tell you more about our decision-making process off-thread.

    0Reply
  • Colin M.
    Member since 2018 · 70 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    @Joe Cassandra - Interested to hear you views on Atlanta as a whole for a NYC person. Looking to get out of NYC and Atlanta is popping up on the radar more and more. Im in Construction Interiors renovations and also looking to buy some MF units. Any recommendations on good investment areas/neighborhoods & areas to stay away from?

    0Reply
  • Andrew Pongyan
    Rental Property Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2018 · 27 posts · 12 votes
    6y

    @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn Currently living in Long Beach CA and it’s great. However, I really love Sacramento CA.

    0Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jimmy O'Connor:

    I'm right there with @Joe P. with Philly. It's a city with so much growth potential as NYC investors continue to travel south to avoid the growing legislation that does not favor the investors as well as diversify their capital across a dozen Philly rows for the price of one manhattan brownstone. Philly will only continue to prosper as echoing rumors of a bullet train from NYC to DC (basic overview article of the high speed line) turns into reality. This allows the young professional community to live in Philly and easily commute to NY, a phenomenon that is already happening.

    That's amazing! I will follow closely for rumors of that bullet train. After travelling to Japan, it's easy to see why the NE needs this kind of transportation. Major cities are so close together; a bullet train would make commuting possible. And I love NYC, I'd be there all the time :)

    0Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Deniz Eker:

    Naples,FL.The one and only place I would live in US

    I hear great things! How could you complain about sugar white sand beaches! Do you happen to do vacation rentals down there? That is another option I've been thinking of.

    Thanks for your input!

    0Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Andrew Pongyan:

    @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn Currently living in Long Beach CA and it’s great. However, I really love Sacramento CA.

    You're killing me, that would be a dream! Do you invest in real estate in that area? If so, what kinds of real estate are you investing in? My sister lives in Santa Monica right now and loves it. My husband is originally from San Jose and it seems like such a great place to raise a family.

    0Reply
  • Deniz Eker
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 102 posts · 48 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn:
    Originally posted by @Deniz Eker:

    Naples,FL.The one and only place I would live in US

    I hear great things! How could you complain about sugar white sand beaches! Do you happen to do vacation rentals down there? That is another option I've been thinking of.

    Thanks for your input!


    I have my own condo in North Naples and am looking for a long term tenant starting in August.

    0Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jon Allen Jr:

    Marianne, my family and I are in the same situation. We've lived overseas for the past 15 years. Although our move date is still TBD, we landed on the Raleigh MSA. I'm interested in adding multifamily to my portfolio, so I did a market analysis of second-tier MSAs analyzing job growth, population growth, etc. I cross-referenced those results with liveability, great places for raising a family, etc. rankings. In addition to the job market, strong education fundamentals, Raleigh is also two-hours from the beach and mountains. It's also not too far from other REI markets that landed on my radar: Greensboro, Richmond VA, Greenville, Charleston SC. I'd be happy to tell you more about our decision-making process off-thread.

    That's amazing that you've started off as broad as I have and narrowed it down to Raleigh. It sounds like you've put quite a bit of analysis into the Raleigh area. I'll definitely send you a message as I'd like to know more about investing in the area. I'm going to be up here for at least another few years. I think I'd like to have my kids born in Canada for universal health care reasons, and then make the move south. Proximity to beaches is definitely appealing!

    Thanks for your input!

    0Reply
  • Sarah Stamper
    Rental Property Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 87 posts · 51 votes
    6y

    @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn my husband and I moved to Richmond a few years ago after spending 10 plus years in the Caribbean (St Croix USVI). As much as we loved the Caribbean we were ready to move back to a bigger city and have our kids experience stateside life. I’m born and raised in NY (1.5 hrs upstate). I went go college in Texas. I love Texas but did not want to move back. Most Texas cities have gotten very crowded with lots of traffic and not enough green spaces unless you live in Austin which is expensive. What I love about Richmond is it has everything major cities have. It’s the capital of Virginia so great school, libraries, parks, roads & more! It’s about 1 hour from the beach, 1 hour from the blue ridge mountains (Appalachian trail) & 1.5 hrs from DC. The traffic isn’t bad, taxes are low and very multicultural! I think it’s a great size city with excellent restaurants! Also the James River runs through the city so great running, walking & biking trails around the river and near downtown with beautiful bridges and trees! It also has 4 seasons but has mild winters. There are also beautiful historic buildings and houses. I am relatively new to real estate investing and think Richmond is a great city to invest in because it’s growing and the cost to buy houses is relatively low compared to other cities. If you are in the area please look me up! I would love to show you around!

    0Reply
  • Joe P.
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn:
    Originally posted by @Joe P.:

    I've got to put in a vote on the Philly area. I think we're a few years away, but we've seen the "certain neighborhood explosion" that begets massive influx of jobs, a la what happened in Boston with Biotech.

    Philly is already well known for its Healthcare contingent, plus the Universities that can funnel those prospects to those organizations. We have an upgraded (albeit still low capacity compared to a Newark or O'Hare) airport, and decent infrastructure. Taxes are still moderately lower than our neighbors to the North (NY) and East (NJ).

    Philly is on the list, thanks! I've been hearing good things about developments in the area. Is there a certain industry fueling the growth of Philly?

    I love the idea of being close to NYC and being in the north east, while still being affordable. Plus I love traveling to Europe, so that's always a bonus being so close ;) I also live in a town where we're a 5 hour drive to the closest major city, so I don't mind driving at all.

    Thanks for your input!

    Primarily healthcare companies, which based upon current events, I think will see both a funding boost in major areas, along with legislation that is friendly to attract and maintain those businesses.

    One thing I am concerned with -- keeping in mind this is not a political view, just an observation, is our taxes and what-is-being-taxed continues a steep upward climb. So I believe it will be up to the city to determine how best to keep everyone in check and continue to grow necessary infrastructure, but Philly does have some bad history there, unfortunately. While I appreciate the progressive nature of the city from a social aspect, it ultimately seems to hit long-time and middle/lower-class residents in their pocket, first.

    But, that being said, the proximity to everything from Philly is really awesome. An hour to the beach (AC Expressway), an hour and a half to the mountains, trains/planes/automobilies to NYC, Baltimore, and DC. I think the airport has improved dramatically and if they dredge the Delaware, which I'd like to see assuming it doesn't cause other issues, there could be an opportunity for cruise ships to sail from Philly as well.

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  • Jon Allen Jr
    Rental Property Investor · Pottstown, PA · Member since 2018 · 9 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Sarah Stamper, @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn - FYI, Richmond was second on my list right up there with Colorado Springs.

    1Reply
  • Sarah Stamper
    Rental Property Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 87 posts · 51 votes
    6y

    @Jon Allen Jr if you are in Richmond to visit or move here PM me! I would love to meet show you around & tell you are favorite thing in the city! I could also give you some local insight to REI. I think Richmond is great city for REInvesting! Best of luck!

    0Reply
  • Joe Cassandra
    Rental Property Investor · Woodstock, GA · Member since 2017 · 517 posts · 772 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Colin M.:

    @Joe Cassandra - Interested to hear you views on Atlanta as a whole for a NYC person. Looking to get out of NYC and Atlanta is popping up on the radar more and more. Im in Construction Interiors renovations and also looking to buy some MF units. Any recommendations on good investment areas/neighborhoods & areas to stay away from?

    I only know the ATL area so that's the best I can share. 

    - Atlanta inside the perimeter, north of the city is more established. As you get to east, west and especially south, those are still developing and many investors have their hands there. You have to watch the streets as they change in an instance. 

    -If you're looking for cashflow and don't care about neighborhood, Macon is a cash cow if you're willing to play in the D areas 

    - If you go north of the city outside the perimeter (Roswell, Marietta, Woodstock, even Dallas and Smyrna) those areas are developed and thriving.  Schools are great, but rents haven't paced values, so you really gotta dig for good deals. Anytime a fixer house in Marietta pops up, there's dozens of investors that swarm it

    - You can keep going north to Forsyth County, or east to Augusta. Augusta is thriving (many here on BP are investing there), Forsyth is pretty established, but if you go north Forsyth, you'll still find some remote areas that have yet to be developed. 

    It all really depends on what you're looking for. Multi-family cap rates swing wildly depending on the Atlanta area. More established areas, you're looking at 4-7% on-market cap rates. On market properties are a battle and that's why I've started looking off market now and expanding my area of interest. Now, looking for more areas that are still in transition. Not D class, but maybe going from C--> B. 

    1Reply
  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    I have lived in:

    West Palm Beach Fl- Great place to grow up back then'

    Corpus Christi TX- Live there in HS

    Killeen TX- Well you cant win them all as I was in the service there

    Austin TX-  Fantastic place to live for many many years.  Love the eclectic vibe and the music scene.  While we still have a place there, it has become very crowded and many of the cool business are being forced out

    Grand Junction Colorado- Spend a lot of time here.  Weather is fantastic and home prices are low.  Outdoor activities galore and I can play golf almost year around 

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