Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
I'm sorry if this is a very general question, but where would you move to if you could move anywhere in the US and start real estate investing?
Backstory: I am Canadian and my husband is American. We currently live in Alberta, Canada. He is a Canadian permanent resident. We don't have kids yet, but plan on starting a family next year. I have a very good, high-paying job but I'm not fulfilled doing what I'm doing and have always had a passion for real estate. I own a condo where I live and one outside of Vancouver, Canada. Looking to buy another condo there next year. My husband will soon be going back to school to study Physiotherapy.
Disclaimer: I love Canada and it's an amazing country with so much opportunity. However, I would like to start a real estate investing journey, and it's just much more financially difficult here.
We are open to moving anywhere in the US. We've traveled through the US quite a bit already, but we know there's so much more to see.
I've used the Niche app as a great tool, but I find the best real answers come from personal experiences :)
Tl;dr looking to move anywhere in the US with the following criteria:
- Good for families (safe, good public schools)
- Good place to invest in real estate (job growth, favors landlords, population growth)
- preferably a major city or at least the suburb of a major city
- culutrally diverse (I'm half Filipina/half German, husband is 1/4 Mexican and 3/4 white)
- good schools
- low state income tax
- lots of parks and greenery (originally from Vancouver, Canada)
- last but not least...lots of good restaurants!!! My favourote hobby is eating good food ;)
Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2015 · 81 posts · 210 votes
6y
hi, I always use the Uhaul inbound vs outbound truck rate differential to see where people are headed in general as far as relocation goes. You want to avoid those locales where there is a huge difference between outbound (a lot of) and inbound (very little of). Of course this isn't everything but it is a good starting point. As you can see below avoid NE or coastal areas due to cost, focus in inland locations.
San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
You really need to consider real estate taxes. People tend to forget that. They think - yay, no income tax! Yay, no sales tax!
Every state and municipality will have taxes that pay for roads and police and firemen and schools, etc., etc., etc. So, you need to ask yourself - if there are no income taxes and no sales taxes.....where are the taxes that pay for everything?
Hello, property taxes. There's a current thread going about a guy whose Texas property taxes are killing him.
And, by the way, why buy another condo in Vancouver where you have to pay HOA fees, too?
Anywhere where the property taxes can be reassessed at the whim of the municipality or state are really scary. There was a recent thread by someone in one of the middle fly over states recently where her taxes had been reassessed again and again, to the point where she was out of pocket with less than zero profit.
Anyway, while you're looking for the perfect place, don't forget to consider taxes.
Otherwise, your parameters are way too broad. The US is enormous. Only you guys can figure out what you're willing to compromise on, because there are always compromises. If you want to live anywhere where the job market is fantastic and the schools are fantastic, those places won't be cheap. There is no such thing. So, what are you willing to compromise on? Only you guys can figure that out.
Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
6y
Denver definitely checks all of your boxes.
It's funny, I was debating with a friend in Denver tonight about whether Revelstoke or Kelowna was a better place to move to. Grass is always greener I guess!
It's funny, I was debating with a friend in Denver tonight about whether Revelstoke or Kelowna was a better place to move to. Grass is always greener I guess!
Funny, I have friends who live in Oyama. It's really a place for retirees. If you want to work and have to commute, the commute is brutal during winter and in summer the traffic is awful because of tourists.
They moved from White Rock and bought a really nice place with an indoor pool and a view of the lake - and then the government decided to build a highway bypass above the property right across the street. They got petitions signed and argued with a group at the local meetings, yatta yatta, to no avail. Now they get a nice view with freeway noise they never anticipated in a million years. It's also a lot hotter in summer than they expected. But, hey, they have a great house with a great view and an indoor pool.
They also miss all of the amenities and shopping and entertainment they had living closer to Vancouver. As I say, there are no perfect places. It's all a matter of compromising. And hoping the government doesn't build a highway across the street lol.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
Right where I am! Why? Because I could of moved anywhere in the US and I picked here. And I LOVE it!!
I did exactly what you are doing: I wanted to find a great place to invest and I picked Oregon... Initially Eugene, but now Portland. I am very happy with my decision and my investments are doing great!
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
6y
Anywhere but Pennsylvania...seriously, I'm really not sure how you get to the answer you need from a question posed to strangers in a discussion group. Good luck to you, but maybe you could narrow it down a bit yourself and then start asking people from that location.
Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Marianne Lopez-Henthorn. You want to leave a high paid job in one of the best cities in the world in a country that actually provides things like universal healthcare to move into some small city in America?! (because that's where the cheaper real estate is). And you want to raise kids there? In a place where six year olds are put under "active shooter" drills?
If you think you will find cultural diversity and food etc of the kind you have in Vancouver anywhere outside the major coastal cities you will be sorely disappointed. Yes smaller cities have got more diverse over the years but nothing compared to Vancouver or SF or NY.
I get the interest in real estate but is it really that important that you would walk away from everything to invest in some cheap houses? If you are that passionate about real estate you should be able to find a way to make it work and live where you are. Unless you hate Canada for some reason. I would really reconsider this plan.
Rental Property Investor | Realtor · Jacksonville FL | Savannah Ga |Raleigh NC · Member since 2017 · 467 posts · 161 votes
6y
Put Wake County Raleigh NC suburbs on your list, do an airbnb and feel it out..also Jacksonville Florida suburbs (St johns county) for price, weather, investing, life style, rei numbers, schools
if you do an airbnb for a week in each part of the suburb, you will often know the city better than long term locals..
Hey @Calvin Lin, this is a great idea! Would you be able to share any other points of analysis you have found helpful this far?
I lived in Austin for 5years and am on a mission to find my 'next Austin' over the next couple of years. Raleigh has been on my list for a while -- went to undergrad there, and it seems like the city (along with Durham) are in growth mode.
So far, I've looked at population growth via census info, along with size of city (medium to large), level of education/schools nearby, and companies that have a presence in those cities. Would love for some more insight on metrics/analysis to start tracking.
Thanks!
Interesting you mentioned the next Austin, I feel that the NC Triangle Research Park area (Raleigh, Durham) is a few years behind Austin in terms of tech company expansion, and RE prices is a bit cheaper than Austin. NC does have a flat income tax but RE tax is much lower than that of Texas (NC about 1% of value vs TX from 2%+). It's also a big college metro area w/ 3 large univerities (Duke, UNC, NC State). As you know more educated workforce = better economic opportunity as it tends to attract more companies. I feel this area presents a good combination of cash flow vs appreciation, a topic that has been disussed many times on BP. Some wants only CF and some want appreciation but for me a little of both is the best of both worlds.
Another thing I look at is the political climate of the location. If the politics at the location where you want to invest in has a pro-tenant/anti-landlord political leaning, then you should think very hard about investing there as such locations only get harder and harder for landlords as these type of laws usually get worse, not better over time. Just look at what's happening in NY and Seattle area, I wouldn't touch those locations with a 10 ft pole.
So for me things I feel are most important:
1) In/out-migration trend -> do people want to come here?
2) Political climate -> are politicians out to hurt you?
3) Education level / big universities -> do companies want to come here, especially those that pay high salary?
remodeling contractor · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2015 · 69 posts · 49 votes
6y
As others have mentioned, the Southeast is a beautiful place, lots of investing opportunities - FL and TN don't have state income taxes. I am in Birmingham so am partial to it, of course. But it does get HOT and Humid in the summer, though winters are mild, certainly compared to Canada.
Wife and I took a long road trip last May and I was really struck by Tucson, AZ. Didn't have much time to spend there but what I saw I liked and would certainly investigate further.
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
6y
I've got to put in a vote on the Philly area. I think we're a few years away, but we've seen the "certain neighborhood explosion" that begets massive influx of jobs, a la what happened in Boston with Biotech.
Philly is already well known for its Healthcare contingent, plus the Universities that can funnel those prospects to those organizations. We have an upgraded (albeit still low capacity compared to a Newark or O'Hare) airport, and decent infrastructure. Taxes are still moderately lower than our neighbors to the North (NY) and East (NJ).
Rental Property Investor · Fishers, IN · Member since 2016 · 335 posts · 470 votes
6y
I'd be looking at tertiary sunbelt cities for a couple reasons. Concerning personal reasons, I'm tired of cold winters. There's not much to do in Indiana for about 4-5 months. I'd also be attracted to the tertiary markets because smaller towns aren't as crowded/have less traffic.
For investing reasons, I think the south is poised to grow exponentially, as the net migration continues that way. I'm a fan of tertiary markets b/c they are a little off the radar, so not as much competition. Lots of upside with markets that have good jobs/employers.
It's funny, I was debating with a friend in Denver tonight about whether Revelstoke or Kelowna was a better place to move to. Grass is always greener I guess!
Kelowna is awesome i had a place there.. Revelstoke while super cool is pretty remote.
to keep things green and out of the humidity belt.. Vancouver WA kind of works.. no state income tax yet you have all of the Portland attractions within 30 minutes.. lakes moutians oceans etc.. for one half to 1/4 the cost of Seattle SF LA etc.
Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
6y
@Susan Maneck I know Covid has been devastating to so many communities. I haven't spent much time in Jackson, but Mississippi does seem like is has a lot of opportunity. I have been thinking about buying a buy & hold SFR in Memphis/Olive Branch, Mississippi. Enjoy Tahoe! I've never been, but it looks beautiful and serene. I'm sure there are some great deals out that way! Maybe you can parnter with someone to get that deal? All the best!
I've thought about this as well and where to settle down eventually. I think Texas and Florida are a couple of the best states. Great for business owners, no income tax, excellent weather, and a huge growth over the past couple of decades. Texas especially has a lot more capacity for growth given its size. I live in Dallas now and it seemed like a great place to invest in 10, 20 years ago but still can be good in the future. Austin does seem overpriced but I like the city, and if you run your own business you could probably work a bit outside of the city and find some great deals.
Great input, thanks! It would've been great to invest in Dallas or Austin 5-10 years ago for sure. I just didn't have the money then, haha! I've only been to Dallas but didn't explore too much of it. Austin seems like I would really enjoy it there; still on my list for sure!
Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
You really need to consider real estate taxes. People tend to forget that. They think - yay, no income tax! Yay, no sales tax!
Every state and municipality will have taxes that pay for roads and police and firemen and schools, etc., etc., etc. So, you need to ask yourself - if there are no income taxes and no sales taxes.....where are the taxes that pay for everything?
Hello, property taxes. There's a current thread going about a guy whose Texas property taxes are killing him.
And, by the way, why buy another condo in Vancouver where you have to pay HOA fees, too?
Anywhere where the property taxes can be reassessed at the whim of the municipality or state are really scary. There was a recent thread by someone in one of the middle fly over states recently where her taxes had been reassessed again and again, to the point where she was out of pocket with less than zero profit.
Anyway, while you're looking for the perfect place, don't forget to consider taxes.
Otherwise, your parameters are way too broad. The US is enormous. Only you guys can figure out what you're willing to compromise on, because there are always compromises. If you want to live anywhere where the job market is fantastic and the schools are fantastic, those places won't be cheap. There is no such thing. So, what are you willing to compromise on? Only you guys can figure that out.
You're absolutely right, property taxes need to be taken into consideration. I know Texas and Florida have higher property taxes to compensate for no income tax, and that'll have to be taken into consideration in my analysis.
HOA fees aren't necessarily a deal breaker. Vancouver and the surrounding markets are a different beast than most. Firstly, in Surrey, it is one of the fastest growing cities in Canada. It is the second largest city in the province of British Columbia, second only to Vancouver. There are many large developments being presented to the city and being built right now. They are right by the skytrain station (the arteries of transportation for the Lower Mainland) = higher rents, easy rentability. I'm talking about 1,500 unit, 4 tower complexes with unbelievable amenities. Also, Canada has "pre-construction sales" in which you buy a condo from a developer, put down 20% over a spaced-out period, and you only require a mortgage once the place is built. For example, I buy a pre-construction 1 bedroom condo from a developer at $350,000. The developers terms are: 5% down upon contract, 5% 3 months later, 5% 3 months after that, and the remaining 5% 3 months after that (for example). So I eventually put down the entire 20% down required for an investment property in Canada, but it's not a huge hit all at once. These massive developments take about 3-4 years to complete. I only require a mortgage when it's actually time to move in, so with 20% down, my mortage would be $280,000. I could easily rent out that unit for $1,700/month. Even if it doesn't cash-flow because HOA fees are ~$200/month, I'm banking on appreciation of the asset. In 4 years time, I am gambling on my condo appreciation quite a bit. Obviously this is high risk, but in an area that's being completely gentrified/re-developed, it's not a blind gamble. I'm familiar with the area and have met with realtors who've seen the plans for the re-development of that city. Not to mention you're within stone's throw from 2 skytrain stations, a new line being built, a new LRT being built, and one of Canada's top universities. If I could do this 10 times, I would. But to come up with a $70k down payment multiple times just isn't feasible.
I understand the enormity of the United States, and I'm just trying to get a starting point. I have traveled quite a bit in the States, but I think it's great to get a local's perspective. In regards to my list, I don't think it's impossible. The website niche.com is a powerful tool for analyzing cities/towns in the US. On a quick search, take West Meadows, Tampa, Florida, for example. It's a suburb of Tampa graded by the website as A+, public schools are graded A or A-, there is racial diversity, median home value is $262,956, it's only a 25 min. drive to downtown Tampa (hello restaurants and nightlife!), median household income is just over $100,000 (compared to the national average of $55,322). Also on a quick search, Physiotherapists make good pay in that area as well = no state income tax for my husband. Obviously, this is a computer-generated report based on many algorithms, and that's why I'm here, to get a more "boots on the ground" review on these areas! It may be difficult to meet my criteria and it is very broad, but I'm determined! All it takes for me is a quick flight out to these cities once the travel ban is lifted, to check it out for myself!
No place is perfect, and I understand that. Vancouver, Canada was near-perfect for me, but it's unaffordable at this stage in my life. Plus, it's now the most densely populated city in Canada, meaning traffic is atrocious. But, you're right on the Pacific Ocean, so very ethnically diverse, food is amazing, you have views of mountains and ocean, and it's very clean and safe. But you're right, there's always a compromise.
Rental Property Investor · San Jose · Member since 2020 · 45 posts · 35 votes
6y
Live where you want. Invest where it make sense.
This is from my experience as a backpacker who been to 30 countries in my 20's I have lived in Singapore, Tokyo, New York, Portland, LA, Bay Area now. I invest in Midwest and Las Vegas. Will I live there and have a family .. no way.. not my place as I can't get the jobs I work in.
It's funny, I was debating with a friend in Denver tonight about whether Revelstoke or Kelowna was a better place to move to. Grass is always greener I guess!
Denver definitely checks the boxes. But housing prices are a little steep there, aren't they? I've visited and it reminds me a lot of Calgary, Alberta being so close to the Rocky Mountains. If I wanted to, I could get a job there in the oil industry (what I currently do), but that's not what I want to do long-term.
Oooh, I'd have to go with Kelowna on that one! However, you have to deal with forest fires every year, and that takes a toll on your lungs! Revelstoke is much more affordable. I also prefer Kelowna for its proximity to Vancouver, and it's a much more developed city. You have major airport, university, etc. BUT - very expensive! Unless you invest in a condo. I LOVE Canada and am biased with BC, but it's out of my price-range right now. Hopefully someday I'll move back!
Right where I am! Why? Because I could of moved anywhere in the US and I picked here. And I LOVE it!!
I did exactly what you are doing: I wanted to find a great place to invest and I picked Oregon... Initially Eugene, but now Portland. I am very happy with my decision and my investments are doing great!
We've traveled a lot through the States (Seattle, Portland, LA, San Fran, Sedona, Phoenix, Vegas, Santa Fe, Memphis, New Orleans, Nashville, Pensacola, Atlanta, Chicago, St. Louis, New York City, Whitefish Montana, Dallas, Mount Rushmore, Couer d'Alene Idaho, Biloxi - just to name a few!)
Point being, the two cities that top our list for places to live would be Nashville and Portland, Oregon! (Although I've never been to Portland, Maine and hear great things about it!).
Do you invest in real estate in Portland? Or do you invest out of state?
Right where I am! Why? Because I could of moved anywhere in the US and I picked here. And I LOVE it!!
I did exactly what you are doing: I wanted to find a great place to invest and I picked Oregon... Initially Eugene, but now Portland. I am very happy with my decision and my investments are doing great!
We've traveled a lot through the States (Seattle, Portland, LA, San Fran, Sedona, Phoenix, Vegas, Santa Fe, Memphis, New Orleans, Nashville, Pensacola, Atlanta, Chicago, St. Louis, New York City, Whitefish Montana, Dallas, Mount Rushmore, Couer d'Alene Idaho, Biloxi - just to name a few!)
Point being, the two cities that top our list for places to live would be Nashville and Portland, Oregon! (Although I've never been to Portland, Maine and hear great things about it!).
Do you invest in real estate in Portland? Or do you invest out of state?
Portland is a dream. Loved my time there and would definitely live there again.
Anywhere but Pennsylvania...seriously, I'm really not sure how you get to the answer you need from a question posed to strangers in a discussion group. Good luck to you, but maybe you could narrow it down a bit yourself and then start asking people from that location.
