If you could move anywhere in the US...

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If you could move anywhere in the US...

Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes

I'm sorry if this is a very general question, but where would you move to if you could move anywhere in the US and start real estate investing?

Backstory: I am Canadian and my husband is American. We currently live in Alberta, Canada. He is a Canadian permanent resident. We don't have kids yet, but plan on starting a family next year. I have a very good, high-paying job but I'm not fulfilled doing what I'm doing and have always had a passion for real estate. I own a condo where I live and one outside of Vancouver, Canada. Looking to buy another condo there next year. My husband will soon be going back to school to study Physiotherapy.

Disclaimer: I love Canada and it's an amazing country with so much opportunity. However, I would like to start a real estate investing journey, and it's just much more financially difficult here.

We are open to moving anywhere in the US. We've traveled through the US quite a bit already, but we know there's so much more to see.

I've used the Niche app as a great tool, but I find the best real answers come from personal experiences :)

Tl;dr looking to move anywhere in the US with the following criteria:

- Good for families (safe, good public schools)

- Good place to invest in real estate (job growth, favors landlords, population growth)

- preferably a major city or at least the suburb of a major city

- culutrally diverse (I'm half Filipina/half German, husband is 1/4 Mexican and 3/4 white)

- good schools

- low state income tax

- lots of parks and greenery (originally from Vancouver, Canada)

- last but not least...lots of good restaurants!!! My favourote hobby is eating good food ;)

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Calvin Lin
Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2015 · 81 posts · 210 votes
6y
 hi, I always use the Uhaul inbound vs outbound truck rate differential to see where people are headed in general as far as relocation goes.  You want to avoid those locales where there is a huge difference between outbound (a lot of) and inbound (very little of).  Of course this isn't everything but it is a good starting point.  As you can see below avoid NE or coastal areas due to cost, focus in inland locations.

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  • Hai Loc
    Specialist · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 891 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Victor Mendez:

    Irvine, California is a good city to raise a family. People flock to Irvine because of the education, public safety, and jobs. 

    Irvine has a diverse job industry as well as population. The University of California, Irvine provides a lot of opportunity and resources to continue your higher education.

    But living in Irvine comes with higher home values, taxes, and HOAs. Very cookie cutter suburban city.

     My uncle and cousins grew up there.. 

    0Reply
  • Luc Boiron
    Specialist · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 564 posts · 425 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn. You want to leave a high paid job in one of the best cities in the world in a country that actually provides things like universal healthcare to move into some small city in America?! (because that's where the cheaper real estate is). And you want to raise kids there? In a place where six year olds are put under "active shooter" drills?

    If you think you will find cultural diversity and food etc of the kind you have in Vancouver anywhere outside the major coastal cities you will be sorely disappointed. Yes smaller cities have got more diverse over the years but nothing compared to Vancouver or SF or NY. 

    I get the interest in real estate but is it really that important that you would walk away from everything to invest in some cheap houses? If you are that passionate about real estate you should be able to find a way to make it work and live where you are. Unless you hate Canada for some reason. I would really reconsider this plan.

    Not quite true. I don't live in Vancouver anymore. I moved to pursue work in the Oil Industry. Do I miss Vancouver, absolutely! The average house price in Vancouver is currently $1.25 million, so a little out of my reach right now. If I can actively invest in Real Estate even in the suburbs and live there too, then I will. As an investor in Canada, you need a 20% down payment. There seems to be a lot more creative ways for financing in the States and a lot more opportunity. 

    I will miss universal health care for sure. However, I often get taxed 40% of my income. If my husband were to work in Florida, his income tax would be 0%, and that would help pay for a really good health care plan - if he doesn't already get one from his employer.

    I don't want to live in a small city in the US, I would prefer a large city. Tampa Bay area has a population of ~3.1 Million. The median house price in Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater area January 2020 was $279,450. Still much more affordable than Vancouver! I understand I will compromise on diversity a bit. It won't be anything like Vancouver, SF, NYC, Toronto, but that's a trade-off for affordability. As long as there is some diversity, I will be happy.

    Regarding active shooter drills, yes this is something I worry about coming from Canada. Canada isn't immune to mass-shootings, but it is far less common. There's not too much I can say about that other than it's something I worry about.

    Suggesting that I hate Canada is as far from the truth as you can get. Just because you leave one country to looks for opportunity elsewhere doesn't mean you hate your home country. This is a great, free country. But my husband is American, so I have a unique opportunity to pursue work elsewhere - why wouldn't I try? I'm young and consider myself resourceful, I'm not afraid to try new things. I'll be letting go of a great job, but if I'm not happy here, why not try something else? Luckily, because I have a good job, I'll have a good nest egg to fall back on. I'd always have my experience here also. I could most likely work in oil again, if all else fails.

    Thanks for your input.

    You mention your husbands tax in Florida would be 0%. You seem to forget federal income tax.
    I live in Toronto. My average tax on my salary that I pay myself is about 30%. In Florida, the federal tax would be 24%. So I wouldn't find it worthwhile to move for a 6% savings. But wait! I would need to pay self-employment tax in Florida, which doesn't exist in Toronto. In addition, the CCPC income tax rate on active business for the first $500,000 of net profit in a tax year is only 12.5% while left in the company (or borrowed out to buy rentals...)
    And, I own a good amount of real estate. Now, with depreciation, insurance, interest, etc, I don't need to worry about paying very much in income taxes on rental properties anytime soon, and capital gains are only half taxed here.
    Income taxes being lower are probably not a good thing for RE investors. It means that either you live in a dangerous ****** place because the government doesn't have enough money to fund basic necessities, or property taxes are very high. High property taxes are not good for buy and hold investors. 
    So if you're talking about a low income tax place as being good to build a rental portfolio, I don't really agree. If you want to live there and own a rental portfolio elsewhere, sure. Or if you want to live there and run an active business, sure. 
    Personally, I'm sick of traffic in Toronto as well. I bought a house in Ottawa on 3 acres for less than half of what my townhouse in Toronto on a 15' wide lot is worth. I'm ready to go there and enjoy some peace and quiet.
    I plan to spend my winters somewhere warm, it may be Florida this year but I hope to spend winters in the Canary Islands in future years. The culture there is lovely and there's so much less poverty and violence.

    As for where you should move in the US - real estate doesn't need to have anything to do with it, invest where it makes sense and live where you want to live. I personally love the ocean and want to spend winter by the ocean so that would limit the options for me, and I'd want to live far enough south because I don't like it being freezing outside.

    1Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Luc Boiron:
    Originally posted by @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn. You want to leave a high paid job in one of the best cities in the world in a country that actually provides things like universal healthcare to move into some small city in America?! (because that's where the cheaper real estate is). And you want to raise kids there? In a place where six year olds are put under "active shooter" drills?

    If you think you will find cultural diversity and food etc of the kind you have in Vancouver anywhere outside the major coastal cities you will be sorely disappointed. Yes smaller cities have got more diverse over the years but nothing compared to Vancouver or SF or NY. 

    I get the interest in real estate but is it really that important that you would walk away from everything to invest in some cheap houses? If you are that passionate about real estate you should be able to find a way to make it work and live where you are. Unless you hate Canada for some reason. I would really reconsider this plan.

    Not quite true. I don't live in Vancouver anymore. I moved to pursue work in the Oil Industry. Do I miss Vancouver, absolutely! The average house price in Vancouver is currently $1.25 million, so a little out of my reach right now. If I can actively invest in Real Estate even in the suburbs and live there too, then I will. As an investor in Canada, you need a 20% down payment. There seems to be a lot more creative ways for financing in the States and a lot more opportunity. 

    I will miss universal health care for sure. However, I often get taxed 40% of my income. If my husband were to work in Florida, his income tax would be 0%, and that would help pay for a really good health care plan - if he doesn't already get one from his employer.

    I don't want to live in a small city in the US, I would prefer a large city. Tampa Bay area has a population of ~3.1 Million. The median house price in Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater area January 2020 was $279,450. Still much more affordable than Vancouver! I understand I will compromise on diversity a bit. It won't be anything like Vancouver, SF, NYC, Toronto, but that's a trade-off for affordability. As long as there is some diversity, I will be happy.

    Regarding active shooter drills, yes this is something I worry about coming from Canada. Canada isn't immune to mass-shootings, but it is far less common. There's not too much I can say about that other than it's something I worry about.

    Suggesting that I hate Canada is as far from the truth as you can get. Just because you leave one country to looks for opportunity elsewhere doesn't mean you hate your home country. This is a great, free country. But my husband is American, so I have a unique opportunity to pursue work elsewhere - why wouldn't I try? I'm young and consider myself resourceful, I'm not afraid to try new things. I'll be letting go of a great job, but if I'm not happy here, why not try something else? Luckily, because I have a good job, I'll have a good nest egg to fall back on. I'd always have my experience here also. I could most likely work in oil again, if all else fails.

    Thanks for your input.

    You mention your husbands tax in Florida would be 0%. You seem to forget federal income tax.
    I live in Toronto. My average tax on my salary that I pay myself is about 30%. In Florida, the federal tax would be 24%. So I wouldn't find it worthwhile to move for a 6% savings. But wait! I would need to pay self-employment tax in Florida, which doesn't exist in Toronto. In addition, the CCPC income tax rate on active business for the first $500,000 of net profit in a tax year is only 12.5% while left in the company (or borrowed out to buy rentals...)
    And, I own a good amount of real estate. Now, with depreciation, insurance, interest, etc, I don't need to worry about paying very much in income taxes on rental properties anytime soon, and capital gains are only half taxed here.
    Income taxes being lower are probably not a good thing for RE investors. It means that either you live in a dangerous ****** place because the government doesn't have enough money to fund basic necessities, or property taxes are very high. High property taxes are not good for buy and hold investors. 
    So if you're talking about a low income tax place as being good to build a rental portfolio, I don't really agree. If you want to live there and own a rental portfolio elsewhere, sure. Or if you want to live there and run an active business, sure. 
    Personally, I'm sick of traffic in Toronto as well. I bought a house in Ottawa on 3 acres for less than half of what my townhouse in Toronto on a 15' wide lot is worth. I'm ready to go there and enjoy some peace and quiet.
    I plan to spend my winters somewhere warm, it may be Florida this year but I hope to spend winters in the Canary Islands in future years. The culture there is lovely and there's so much less poverty and violence.

    As for where you should move in the US - real estate doesn't need to have anything to do with it, invest where it makes sense and live where you want to live. I personally love the ocean and want to spend winter by the ocean so that would limit the options for me, and I'd want to live far enough south because I don't like it being freezing outside.

    You have good points for sure. It's not like I have to move to the US forever. The door doesn't close behind me once I leave. In 1.5yrs my husband can apply for Canadian citizenship. Through him, I can apply for US residency, and then citizenship. The two of us potentially could have dual citizenship. 

    It's not all upside moving to the states, obviously. I've lived in BC and now northern Alberta. It would be a nice change. Our winters here are 6 months, getting to -40 degrees. I understand there would always be federal tax in the States. I often get taxed 40% here. So, it is quite a bit different. I could work and get paid in USD, then eventually come back to Canada and retire here.

    Healthcare and safety will be much different in the States. But again, I'm never stuck. 

    As for real estate, I would love to do a flip eventually, and possibly some airbnb rentals in Florida. I know I don't have to live where I invest, but it would be nice. I can't see it being too tough to live there, especially if I keep my condo outside of Vancouver to "reverse snowbird" to in the summer.

    ps. Ottawa is beautiful!

    0Reply
  • Luc Boiron
    Specialist · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 564 posts · 425 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn:
    Originally posted by @Luc Boiron:
    Originally posted by @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn. You want to leave a high paid job in one of the best cities in the world in a country that actually provides things like universal healthcare to move into some small city in America?! (because that's where the cheaper real estate is). And you want to raise kids there? In a place where six year olds are put under "active shooter" drills?

    If you think you will find cultural diversity and food etc of the kind you have in Vancouver anywhere outside the major coastal cities you will be sorely disappointed. Yes smaller cities have got more diverse over the years but nothing compared to Vancouver or SF or NY. 

    I get the interest in real estate but is it really that important that you would walk away from everything to invest in some cheap houses? If you are that passionate about real estate you should be able to find a way to make it work and live where you are. Unless you hate Canada for some reason. I would really reconsider this plan.

    Not quite true. I don't live in Vancouver anymore. I moved to pursue work in the Oil Industry. Do I miss Vancouver, absolutely! The average house price in Vancouver is currently $1.25 million, so a little out of my reach right now. If I can actively invest in Real Estate even in the suburbs and live there too, then I will. As an investor in Canada, you need a 20% down payment. There seems to be a lot more creative ways for financing in the States and a lot more opportunity. 

    I will miss universal health care for sure. However, I often get taxed 40% of my income. If my husband were to work in Florida, his income tax would be 0%, and that would help pay for a really good health care plan - if he doesn't already get one from his employer.

    I don't want to live in a small city in the US, I would prefer a large city. Tampa Bay area has a population of ~3.1 Million. The median house price in Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater area January 2020 was $279,450. Still much more affordable than Vancouver! I understand I will compromise on diversity a bit. It won't be anything like Vancouver, SF, NYC, Toronto, but that's a trade-off for affordability. As long as there is some diversity, I will be happy.

    Regarding active shooter drills, yes this is something I worry about coming from Canada. Canada isn't immune to mass-shootings, but it is far less common. There's not too much I can say about that other than it's something I worry about.

    Suggesting that I hate Canada is as far from the truth as you can get. Just because you leave one country to looks for opportunity elsewhere doesn't mean you hate your home country. This is a great, free country. But my husband is American, so I have a unique opportunity to pursue work elsewhere - why wouldn't I try? I'm young and consider myself resourceful, I'm not afraid to try new things. I'll be letting go of a great job, but if I'm not happy here, why not try something else? Luckily, because I have a good job, I'll have a good nest egg to fall back on. I'd always have my experience here also. I could most likely work in oil again, if all else fails.

    Thanks for your input.

    You mention your husbands tax in Florida would be 0%. You seem to forget federal income tax.
    I live in Toronto. My average tax on my salary that I pay myself is about 30%. In Florida, the federal tax would be 24%. So I wouldn't find it worthwhile to move for a 6% savings. But wait! I would need to pay self-employment tax in Florida, which doesn't exist in Toronto. In addition, the CCPC income tax rate on active business for the first $500,000 of net profit in a tax year is only 12.5% while left in the company (or borrowed out to buy rentals...)
    And, I own a good amount of real estate. Now, with depreciation, insurance, interest, etc, I don't need to worry about paying very much in income taxes on rental properties anytime soon, and capital gains are only half taxed here.
    Income taxes being lower are probably not a good thing for RE investors. It means that either you live in a dangerous ****** place because the government doesn't have enough money to fund basic necessities, or property taxes are very high. High property taxes are not good for buy and hold investors. 
    So if you're talking about a low income tax place as being good to build a rental portfolio, I don't really agree. If you want to live there and own a rental portfolio elsewhere, sure. Or if you want to live there and run an active business, sure. 
    Personally, I'm sick of traffic in Toronto as well. I bought a house in Ottawa on 3 acres for less than half of what my townhouse in Toronto on a 15' wide lot is worth. I'm ready to go there and enjoy some peace and quiet.
    I plan to spend my winters somewhere warm, it may be Florida this year but I hope to spend winters in the Canary Islands in future years. The culture there is lovely and there's so much less poverty and violence.

    As for where you should move in the US - real estate doesn't need to have anything to do with it, invest where it makes sense and live where you want to live. I personally love the ocean and want to spend winter by the ocean so that would limit the options for me, and I'd want to live far enough south because I don't like it being freezing outside.

    You have good points for sure. It's not like I have to move to the US forever. The door doesn't close behind me once I leave. In 1.5yrs my husband can apply for Canadian citizenship. Through him, I can apply for US residency, and then citizenship. The two of us potentially could have dual citizenship. 

    It's not all upside moving to the states, obviously. I've lived in BC and now northern Alberta. It would be a nice change. Our winters here are 6 months, getting to -40 degrees. I understand there would always be federal tax in the States. I often get taxed 40% here. So, it is quite a bit different. I could work and get paid in USD, then eventually come back to Canada and retire here.

    Healthcare and safety will be much different in the States. But again, I'm never stuck. 

    As for real estate, I would love to do a flip eventually, and possibly some airbnb rentals in Florida. I know I don't have to live where I invest, but it would be nice. I can't see it being too tough to live there, especially if I keep my condo outside of Vancouver to "reverse snowbird" to in the summer.

    ps. Ottawa is beautiful!

    On the tax perspective, the highest US federal tax bracket appears to be 37%, whereas the highest tax bracket in Alberta is 48%. To be taxed an average tax rate of 40% would be at a $400,000 income in Alberta, and the average tax in Florida for the same income would be around 31%. So definitely makes a difference, but it's not a 40% difference. 

    I agree that you're never stuck. I have 2 American siblings with dual citizenship. 1 chose to live in the US as an adult, and 1 chose to live in Canada. 
    For what it's worth, the high income earner sibling who lives in the US and can live anywhere chose Scottsdale, after living in Tennessee, Delaware, and Irvine CA. 

    0Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn

    Have you considered Phoenix? That’s where my wife and I plan on ending up eventually.

     I have thought about it for sure. I'm not sure how I feel about the desert, as much as I love the sun. 

    0Reply
  • Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Vijaianand Thirunageswaram:

    @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn I hope you are not confused yet. I was totally surprised that no one yet mentioned about Houston and Suburb of Houston, TX as one of great places for what you looking.... 

    I been Houstonian since 2003 and I used to hate it because I came from Boston,MA. But now I love it for many reasons especially the people and opportunities abound.  Let me share some 

    - Good for families (safe, good public schools) - Many suburbs like Sugarland, Katy, Cypress, Klein has great schools and neighborhoods around it. 

    - Good place to invest in real estate (job growth, favors landlords, population growth) - It's 4th largest metro and it's growing. Traffic in 610 and 10 is horrible but it's getting better but you can avoid it easily depending on choosing the right place to live. City is growing and suburbs are sprawling on every side of the city. Investment opportunities are abound and it's consider Top 3 places by out of state/country investors next to Florida and Atlanta. You can buy properties less than $125k and get 1% rent anytime with great cashflow.

    - preferably a major city or at least the suburb of a major city  - You got it.. We are 4th largest metro and still growing.. 

    - culutrally diverse (I'm half Filipina/half German, husband is 1/4 Mexican and 3/4 white) - Diverse city in the nation with so many cultures and so many restaurants you can hit on

    - good schools - Yes which I mentioned. May kids go to UT Austin which is one of top 10 schools in nation.

    - low state income tax  - No state tax but we do have high property tax

    - lots of parks and greenery (originally from Vancouver, Canada)  - It's green but totally greenery that's why we go state parks for camps.

    - last but not least...lots of good restaurants!!! My favourote hobby is eating good food ;)  - -We have plenty of all kinds..

    To summarize, you should actually put Houston as first in your list because we have everything to offer for you and you won't regret it. We also have big medical centers and good amount of medical pros live in suburbs and enjoy it. 

    Google about Houston and you will find tons of information... All the best.

    Houston is definitely on my list, thank you! It would be an easy transition, especially if I were to work there. I do worry about flooding there, though. Does it flood often?

    0Reply
  • Mark Sewell
    Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 871 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mike Reynolds:

    I'd move across the street. That's a nice piece of land over there.

     Yes Mike, but the commute.... not sure, man.

    1Reply
  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mark Sewell:
    Originally posted by @Mike Reynolds:

    I'd move across the street. That's a nice piece of land over there.

     Yes Mike, but the commute.... not sure, man.

    LOL Mark. My job will have me move to big H soon. I may look you up when that happens. I have no idea where to buy at down there. 

    1Reply
  • Vijaianand Thirunageswaram
    Real Estate Broker/Owner & Property Manager · Sugar Land, TX · Member since 2013 · 660 posts · 459 votes
    6y

    @Marianne Lopez-Henthorn People think the whole of Houston floods when it rains. That's not right!! We do have lot of areas which is not in flood zone or flood plain like Sugar land, Katy, Cypress, TOmball etc., They have good schools and good Communities. We do flood in the city lot due to the drainage and bad rain these days but it drains unless we get rain like Harvey which is 500 years rain. So don't worry about it, Come on down...

    0Reply
  • Joe HomsBusiness Member
    Flipper · Mission Viejo, CA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Great question.

    [email protected]949-625-4533
    0Reply
  • Mike Rosback
    Real Estate Agent · Richmond, VA · Member since 2019 · 18 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    @Sarah Stamper I am biased but totally agree with your analysis of Richmond VA. For me it is the perfect city, not too big but large enough to have plenty to offer for everyone. Lived here a long time mostly spent in IT but now working and living in the real estate world and loving it. As a Realtor / Investor now i am seeing new interesting parts of the Richmond and surrounding areas.

    Mike R

    1Reply
  • Tim Winter
    Broker · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 151 posts · 55 votes
    6y

    I would move here, or if pandemic becomes a zombie apocalypse happens I think I'll be heading here to wait it out. 

    https://my.flexmls.com/timwinter/search/contacts/20150926003943483714000000/newsfeeds/listings/20200529163730272059000000

    It's the perfect distance from civilization, on the edge of national forest, even has a stocked lake with slide! If you're not tied to any one country, I think the ideal situation is to have a summer home and a winter home in two places that you want to spend both seasons, and then vacation rental it out while you're not there. Live for free and not be tied to any one place. But that's my plan once financial freedom is within my grasp. Your ideal may vary. 

    Best of luck finding your dream location.

    0Reply
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