Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
I'm sorry if this is a very general question, but where would you move to if you could move anywhere in the US and start real estate investing?
Backstory: I am Canadian and my husband is American. We currently live in Alberta, Canada. He is a Canadian permanent resident. We don't have kids yet, but plan on starting a family next year. I have a very good, high-paying job but I'm not fulfilled doing what I'm doing and have always had a passion for real estate. I own a condo where I live and one outside of Vancouver, Canada. Looking to buy another condo there next year. My husband will soon be going back to school to study Physiotherapy.
Disclaimer: I love Canada and it's an amazing country with so much opportunity. However, I would like to start a real estate investing journey, and it's just much more financially difficult here.
We are open to moving anywhere in the US. We've traveled through the US quite a bit already, but we know there's so much more to see.
I've used the Niche app as a great tool, but I find the best real answers come from personal experiences :)
Tl;dr looking to move anywhere in the US with the following criteria:
- Good for families (safe, good public schools)
- Good place to invest in real estate (job growth, favors landlords, population growth)
- preferably a major city or at least the suburb of a major city
- culutrally diverse (I'm half Filipina/half German, husband is 1/4 Mexican and 3/4 white)
- good schools
- low state income tax
- lots of parks and greenery (originally from Vancouver, Canada)
- last but not least...lots of good restaurants!!! My favourote hobby is eating good food ;)
Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2015 · 81 posts · 210 votes
6y
hi, I always use the Uhaul inbound vs outbound truck rate differential to see where people are headed in general as far as relocation goes. You want to avoid those locales where there is a huge difference between outbound (a lot of) and inbound (very little of). Of course this isn't everything but it is a good starting point. As you can see below avoid NE or coastal areas due to cost, focus in inland locations.
Irvine, California is a good city to raise a family. People flock to Irvine because of the education, public safety, and jobs.
Irvine has a diverse job industry as well as population. The University of California, Irvine provides a lot of opportunity and resources to continue your higher education.
But living in Irvine comes with higher home values, taxes, and HOAs. Very cookie cutter suburban city.
Real Estate Coach · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2017 · 273 posts · 414 votes
6y
Okay, your criteria...
Good schools/good for families... every major city/suburb will have pockets where this is true. Same for diversity (though the two don't always align).
States with landlord-friendly policies -- look at a political map. Red states tend to have better laws for landlords.
Growth -- money, jobs, and people, in general, are moving from North/Northeast to South and Southeast, and from West Coast inland.
Overall, I'm with @Joe Cassandra... Go for the Carolinas: Charlotte, Greenville, or Charleston. I'm in DC, and the Carolinas is where we own multifamily...
I am not knocking anyone, but the answers in here for "if you could live anywhere" (even with the criteria defined) are funny and show me 1) how different we are as people with preferences and 2) make me wonder how often people actually get away to other areas. I would HATE to live in some of these areas. Like truly, they are TERRIBLE on so many factors.
Really? <Place X?> If you could live ANYWHERE?! LOL. You should get out more. ;-)
As a software consultant who has lived and worked all over the united states for almost 2 decades, AND as an "overlander" who has traveled to many tiny towns or places where no towns exist at all, I can state with certainty the place to live is.....
......no one can answer this for you. IN fact, my OWN favorite place changed the past 5 years based on a shift in priorities. Good luck.
Real Estate Agent · Frisco · Member since 2019 · 38 posts · 18 votes
6y
@Marianne Lopez-Henthorn
Well you certainly given yourself plenty of reading.
I won’t try and compare any other place in the US to where I live. Frisco outside Dallas.
I am a transplant from Ireland and love it here.
Looking at your list of asks I think it fits every single one.
Voted the best place to live in America in 2018 by Money Magazine. You should look it up online.
Very safe, extremely low crime. “Lots of speed traps as the cops have nothing else to do”
Texas has no state tax, I think that hits a tick box for anybody
Schools in Frisco are among the best, all top rated.
Very fast Growing city. A number of big corporations have moved out of California to Frisco and the next connected town Plano. Lots of things moving out of Dallas to Frisco. Cowboys training facilities etc. the PGA is moving their HQ from Florida to here.
Having been to Alberta in both winter and summer I know you have reasonably hot summers. But if you love the snow you won’t get it here. May a day or 2 every 3 years.
You can hit a number of different types of investing here because of the growth.
Does this specifically cover uHaul rentals only or does this include truck rentals of all other US companies. If it’s the former than the data set may not be indicative or conclusive.
From how I see it, uHauls are typically rented by young students or lower income families. Larger families or higher income folks will simply outsource the move to a large trucking company.
So then how could that data be representative of the general trend? The data will tell you that there is large scale migration out of coastal cities. But the situation on the ground will show you a very different picture. I can speak for the Bay Area where uHaul data has shown a net outward migration but then the number of high paying jobs, traffic, home prices etc keeps growing at a rapid clip.
This is for Uhaul only. I am not in the SF area so I can't say from personal experience but from what I read online and from news source the out migration trend from super expensive coastal cities like SF, NJ, NY, LA have been in motion for years and now with coronavirus and work-from-home being made permanent at many companies one would assume the trend will accelerate years to come. Also you will find many folks on BP in cities such as Dallas, Austin, SLC, Phoenix, Denver, Raleigh, Charlotte, Nashville, etc all saying they have lost of recent arrivals from such coastal areas. But if you are saying in fact places like SF have more people moving into it than moving out then I guess it's not what I would expect, especially now.
Real Estate Agent · Louisiana · Member since 2017 · 215 posts · 149 votes
6y
@Marianne Lopez-Henthorn As a fellow Canadian (Toronto) I recently moved to the south (Louisiana). I am high on the Florida Panhandle (Destin, Navarre, Miramar Beach, etc). My in-laws have a rental property in SanDestin that has been a great investment for them. It has certainly picked up steam as of late, gets very popular in the summer times with tourism, but prices are still reasonable, areas are growing and overall is just beautiful with great beaches.
Real Estate Broker/Owner & Property Manager · Sugar Land, TX · Member since 2013 · 660 posts · 459 votes
6y
@Marianne Lopez-Henthorn I hope you are not confused yet. I was totally surprised that no one yet mentioned about Houston and Suburb of Houston, TX as one of great places for what you looking....
I been Houstonian since 2003 and I used to hate it because I came from Boston,MA. But now I love it for many reasons especially the people and opportunities abound. Let me share some
- Good for families (safe, good public schools) - Many suburbs like Sugarland, Katy, Cypress, Klein has great schools and neighborhoods around it.
- Good place to invest in real estate (job growth, favors landlords, population growth) - It's 4th largest metro and it's growing. Traffic in 610 and 10 is horrible but it's getting better but you can avoid it easily depending on choosing the right place to live. City is growing and suburbs are sprawling on every side of the city. Investment opportunities are abound and it's consider Top 3 places by out of state/country investors next to Florida and Atlanta. You can buy properties less than $125k and get 1% rent anytime with great cashflow.
- preferably a major city or at least the suburb of a major city - You got it.. We are 4th largest metro and still growing..
- culutrally diverse (I'm half Filipina/half German, husband is 1/4 Mexican and 3/4 white) - Diverse city in the nation with so many cultures and so many restaurants you can hit on
- good schools - Yes which I mentioned. May kids go to UT Austin which is one of top 10 schools in nation.
- low state income tax - No state tax but we do have high property tax
- lots of parks and greenery (originally from Vancouver, Canada) - It's green but totally greenery that's why we go state parks for camps.
- last but not least...lots of good restaurants!!! My favourote hobby is eating good food ;) - -We have plenty of all kinds..
To summarize, you should actually put Houston as first in your list because we have everything to offer for you and you won't regret it. We also have big medical centers and good amount of medical pros live in suburbs and enjoy it.
Google about Houston and you will find tons of information... All the best.
You may want to take this with a grain of salt because we are moving there sight unseen however, my girlfriend got into the Tulsa (OK) Remote program in November. It’s program where they’re paying remote workers to come in and live for a year with several incentives to stay other than the money they pay for a year.
On the surface it sounds desperate, paying people to move, which is what made us skeptical in the early days. But since then we’ve done a ton of research and she has been evesdropping on the Tulsa Remote Slack channel. It really does sound like a city on the rise. A lot of new social areas with an emerging foodie scene. Most recently Tesla has narrowed its search for its largest factory to Austin or Tulsa.
Additionally, I have several close friends in Dallas/FtW area who told me that Tulsa has been on the rise for awhile and a lot of local Texans head up there.
I don’t know, we were supposed to visit prior to COVID but since we’ve been in quarantine we basically said “screw it” and are moving there in a month and intend on buying.
Anyway, just wanted to offer a different opinion than some of the normal cities thrown around on these threads.
@Calvin Lin great points Calvin. Thanks for sharing! That last takeaway about education and jobs is interesting. With NC State, Duke and UNC in the triangle area, I anticipate more companies will want to establish presence there. I know there's a good amount of biotech and traditional tech (Cisco, IBM/Lenovo, Redhat, SAS, etc) but haven't really heard much about emerging companies/startups. My last visit there, I did notice some startup incubators around town, so maybe it will heat up. Will look into this, as it could maybe be related to political aspects.
Rental Property Investor · Kelowna, British Columbia · Member since 2015 · 136 posts · 54 votes
6y
The right answers is ..... the best city (to live) is the best place for you, your family and goals.
Even knowing I like several cities in US, I wouldn’t move away from Canada (due to political, safety, education, financing steadiness and health care reasons) but I would definitely invest there as long it matches my criteria.
I went through the answers and unfortunately most are biased as people are promoting their own business (which is understandable) so remember one important thing .... you can invest in a cash flowing place without having to live there. That’s why PM companies exist. (It doesn’t matter if the city is good, bad or ugly as long makes you money)
My approach is simple ..... invest for financial gains (anywhere) and live in a city that provides the lifestyle I am looking for. (if you can combine both even better)
I live in Kelowna (possibly one of the best places to live in Canada) so we invest around here because regardless what happens in the world, this piece of paradise will always be a highly desirable place.(This region has short winters and hot summers, 128 wineries, orchards, more than 19 golf courses, 2 ski hills, several lakes, great outdoors, etc.)
Note: Our latest investment is in Victoria, BC but in US I would consider Arizona, Texas and Indiana.
Rental Property Investor · Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 26 votes
6y
@Josh Ball would you be willing to share the details of your in-laws' vacation property? I was also looking into buying a vacation property in the Destin area. It was the top earning airbnb spot according to Airdna. How are you handling the move from Toronto to Louisiana? Gotta be a huge culture shock! I was born in Toronto and love it there :)
Rental Property Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2018 · 27 posts · 12 votes
6y
@Marianne Lopez-Henthorn yes I currently own a sfh in the Sacramento area that’s a rental and I own a condo in Long Beach that I actually live in. The condo in LB is 3 houses in Texas. Lmao. I also own in Tx.
Cypress, TX · Member since 2016 · 137 posts · 119 votes
6y
@Marianne Lopez-Henthorn Based on your list, Texas might be the ticket, at least for the first stop in the U.S. I spent some time bouncing around Alberta for tar sands engineering projects, and you'll probably find most of what's on your list and similar industry (see you're in Ft. Mac) in Houston. Socially speaking, Dallas is really similar to Calgary, and Edmonton is pretty similar to Houston and San Antonio. Austin is a bit like Whyte Ave/Old Strahcona area of Edmonton and Eau Claire area of Calgary all wrapped together.
Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
The grass seems to always be greener somewhere else. The guy that mentioned San Antonio lives in Austin.. go figure. Abraham Lincoln said, “ most people are as happy as they make up their mind to be.”
Florida is a giant trailer park with access to the beach. Mississippi is a backwards dump. Do yourself a favor and take those 2 locations off of your list.
I've lived in California, Tucson, Flagstaff, Florida and for the last twenty years in Mississippi. Yes, Mississippi is backwards but the return on investments can't be beat. I live in 1700 square foot house with a living room and family room. It was rehabbed just before the recession. I paid 30K for it. I could rent it easily for $900 a month. Mississippi made me a millionaire (just barely) from virtually nothing a decade ago, so I'm not complaining.
No shame in it. I lived in hattiesburg for 5 yrs and went to jackson often for work. Moved a whole 2 hours away to Louisiana and its like a different world. The corruption is off the charts though!
Investor · USA · Member since 2015 · 168 posts · 243 votes
6y
I agree with @Edison Reis, live where you love and invest in places with best possible returns.
I am a investor living in Texas but invested in states of California, Utah, Florida, and Texas.
If you are a long-term buy-and-hold investor, stay out of states with high property tax like Texas and Florida, high property tax is THE killer. On paper, cash flow in state like Texas and Florida looks wonderful, but after the high property tax, after the high insurance(including windstorm and hurricane coverage), and increasing high cost caused by hot weather and high humidity, cash flow is becoming worse and worse. That's why I will gradually get rid of properties in these states. Please be aware of that I am only talking about buy-and-hold, and only for 1~4 unit, not for flipper and apartment buildings.
My suggestions for selecting investment places are: 1) Find the places with strong population increase
2) Property tax should be under 1.5%, definitely not above 2%
3) with 75% LTV, after 10% PM fee, after 10% vacancy and repair cost, should at least break even in cash flow
4) Buy properties a little bit of under median home price in a decent neighborhood
States like Utah, Idaho, Colorado, North Carolina are all wonderful states to invest.
Tucson, AZ · Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 39 votes
6y
I was born and raised in Tucson and I found it interesting that it was mentioned 4 times in this thread.
Like any other city, there’s nice parts and rough parts. I happen to think that there’s tremendous investor opportunity in the city that is often over looked because so many people are attracted to the larger Phoenix metro area that’s just 100 miles away.
I would recommend looking to live in the Vail or Marana areas, I know that Vail has a tremendous school district because I graduated from there :)
There’s a two part national park on either side of town, loads of recreational opportunity, and tons of public land all around. You can go from the beautiful Sahuaro landscape, drive about 35 minutes, and be deep into mountain pines on your way to Mt Lemmon and the southern most ski destination in the country (it’s gonna be 107 degrees tomorrow, but the high is 71 on the mountain). There’s truly unbelievable opportunity for outdoor recreation, even in the dead of summer. The city also boasts tremendous bicycle friendly roads and courses.
Economically, some strong drivers are the university and the Air Force base. There’s also a major Raytheon operation, and various other sectors. There are several very good hospitals in town, as well as the states only medical school.
Politically, the city tends to be liberal. Pima county is generally a blue county. And Arizona tends to be more conservative. There are neighborhoods in Tucson that are strikingly progressive and liberal, specifically near downtown and the university. Spreading out to the suburbs will bring more moderate viewpoints.
The weather has its own reputation, and it’s true for the most part. Tucson is hot and sunny. For those who have never visited the desert in the summer, imagine opening your oven and feeling a blast of warm air hit your face. That’s what it feels like to leave AC and walk outside. It is a dry heat though, and is really much more manageable than dealing with humidity. Oddly enough, the temperature swings can be almost 50 degrees from day to night. It’s entirely normal to have a high of 110 and then a low of around 70 at night. This seems to surprise a lot of people, because mornings and evenings are very pleasant even in the summer months. Winters are relatively mild. It snows in Tucson once every few years, although the mountains are often snow capped for a few months during the winter. We also experience some very unique and strong monsoons.
There are also some really, really tough parts of town. Like most other cities, you've got many run down and beat up neighborhoods. There's a few parts of town where you can go from striking, million dollar homes in beautiful neighborhoods, to absolutely disgusting shacks and abandoned homes just a few blocks away. (This is where I see a lot of potential for those in fix and flip or BRRRR investing)
Some of the biggest challenges facing Tucson is the lack of infrastructure designed to accommodate the cities expansion. Because of this, the city operates within a grid traffic system, and the interstate is ineffective for much of inter-city travel. That being said, traffic is much easier to handle than larger metros such as LA, Dallas, or even Phoenix or Austin.
Well I think that about wraps up my thoughts... I hope this helps. If you’re interested, I’d be happy to offer some ideas on where to go if you ever happen to visit or consider Tucson as your home. I could also tailor in some of the hidden investment gems. Feel free to send me a direct message!
