Do I need permits for this work?

Question

Hi all!  I need help with clarification on permits in Cleveland Ohio.

I bought a duplex and replaced electrical panels and turned attic space into additional bedrooms.

My general contractor says I don't need permits because these are minor alterations..and he's never pulled permits for these things..can anyone give any feedback?

Tried calling the city but no one answers, sent them an email but was hoping someone here might have helpful information.  Thanks.

Jaron Walling · Answer

Replacing an electrical panel is not a "minor alteration". If you're upgrading from a 100amp to 200amp (most common upgrade) you can't do it without upgrading the power service coming into the property. Obviously this is extremely dangerous. There's a reason this a $5-6K job.

I just Google searched City of Cleveland Ohio permits and found the fees based your projects. Your contractor should be submitting this stuff.

https://www.clevelandohio.gov/...

Joe Splitrock · Answer

Yes you need permits for this. You also need to make sure that a licensed electrician replaced the electrical panel. The additional bedrooms are added square feet and if used as bedrooms will need to meet certain requirements. There are code requirements around outlet placement, outlet circuit protection, possibly ceiling height and most importantly egress (fire escape). If the bedrooms are not legal, they can't be used to sleep in them. That can affect appraisal, sales price and ability to rent. Be careful here because insurance doesn't have to protect you from a claim if the work was done unpermitted and unsafe.

The fact that your general contractor says permits are not required for this level of substantial work tells me they are dishonest or incompetent. That makes me question the quality of the work. Get your permits and get this inspected.

Also make sure your contactor completes a W9 before you issue them payment. That is required so you can send them a 1099. I have a suspicion that the type of contractor who skips permits will also skip paying taxes.

https://www.clevelandohio.gov/...

Kevin Scott · Answer

@JD Mims  I think there is some confusion in the term license.  There is no specialty license needed for a General Contractor which is common in many states. Typically mechanical (plumbing, HVAC, etc) and electrical require specialty licensing.  But that doesn't mean no license is required for other contractors.

As @Terrell Garren mentioned there are other requirements that need to be met.  At a minimum a business license for the state and to actually do work in a municipality they probably require insurance and or bonding (if the state doesn't or labor and industry).  When a contractor says they don't need a license they are usually pulling something or they might be legit but are referring to a state specialty license.

To answer your question though.  You can probably get a permit after the fact (the names are different for different areas). Sometimes you will have to expose studs and electrical sometimes it's nothing. It's likely going to be a little more money also for the permit but it isn't likely going to be that much money. You will likely need a licensed electrician to check everything out and put his name on it for electrical. Which some might and some might not.

Are you calling community development, the building department, permit center.  Each area has different names for this stuff so try a few different numbers. Hopefully it works out for ya and the Contractor is actually licensed. If maybe they will fix the work if any exposure is needed. (maybe)

Matt Devincenzo · Answer

I can almost guarantee that both of those require permits. While the existing attic may have been the right framing for the new bedrooms, so that the work to convert is 'minor'. The actual creation of living SF is not minor as it triggers additional requirements for assessment and/or City provided services. Panel upgrades are also not minor and require inspections for grounding rod number, length and location amongst other things. That said the reality is most people don't get the permits they're required to on things like this, and many contractor's don't either because they don't want to deal with the City.

Bruce Woodruff · Answer

Don't pay the Contractor, he is an idiot or scammer or both. Did you even check his license status? There is no reason for a Contr not to pull a permit, it doesn't cost anything except a trip to the city.

If that ship has sailed, then go to the city and explain what happened and beg for forgiveness.

Next time always assume that everything requires a permit. This is not true, but will get you thinking straight....

Terrell Garren · Answer

How To Get a Contractors License in Ohio

The Ohio Construction Industry Licensing Board (OCILB) requires only the following trades to hold a state-level Ohio contractor license: electricians, HVAC contractors, hydronic technicians, plumbers, and refrigeration installers. For other contractors, and especially general contractors, an Ohio contractor license and/or registration must be applied for and issued at the local level.

General Contractor License Columbus, Ohio

The Columbus Department of Building and Zoning Services will conduct the contractor licensing process for Columbus, Ohio. This department issues two types of licenses for building contractors: home improvement contractors and general contractors. The primary difference between the two licenses is the type of work that can be performed and the number of families occupying the dwelling.

Bruce Woodruff · Answer

So you can build a house without any license or certification....? That'll work out well....

Jeremy Komer · Answer

@JD Mims

Based off my limited knowledge of other Ohio cities you definitely need a building and electric permit.

JD Mims · Answer

In Ohio General contractors don't need a license. I did ask if he had one, but then I found out that they don't have to have one.. anyway. I will call the city again tomorrow.

Scott Ehmer · Answer

Have you already paid the contractor? If not, I would definitely withhold payment until it is permitted. You may need to undo some of the work to reveal it for inspection by the building inspector. I would also agree with the previous statements. I am not aware of any jurisdiction that would not make a big deal about those things not being permitted.

Do I need permits for this work?

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